Shardcast: Half-Shards


Welcome to Shardcast - Civil War: Episode 2, Half-Shards Edition. We are continuing our discussion on fabrials and we are going straight into a spicy, perhaps infuriating discussion regarding whether half-shards use Radiant spren. Is the answer obvious? What do you think? Tell us down below!

We have Eric (Chaos, who has no strong opinions), Ian (WeiryWriter, at his most pedantic), Evgeni (Argent, who tries to talk), and Matt (Comatose, who fights the good fight).

Send your Who's That Cosmere Characters to [email protected] 

 

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You guys didn't mention it on the episode, but I think the device the Ire use to detect Shades is probably a fabrial.

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Technically any spren can perform a nahel bond, or certain spren can form a nahel bond that provides surgebinding abilities.

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Are we certain any regular human-spren bond is a Nahel bond?

Or is a Radiant bond considered the Nahel-Bond?

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Potus

Posted (edited)

@Chaos @WeiryWriter  @Argent  @Comatose

In the most recent Sanderson Q&A at Idaho Falls, someone asked the question about Half-Shards and the spren:

Dearius [PENDING REVIEW]

Are half-shards made with Radiant spren?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

RAFO! Good question!

source

 

So while it is a RAFO, it seems very likely that the answer is probably "Yes it is a Radient Spren/related to Radient Spren"

Edited by Potus
Asked for someone to pose this question to Brandon and someone did
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Child of Hodor

Posted

I think it is a secondary Spren associated with the Stoneward order. Like the Windrunners have windspren.

I think they are attracting the more simple minded stone spren or similar nature-based spren that form the plate for an order.

mr. T says “Bless a Radiant” it could be like bless a radiant with Plate. He doesn’t exactly say create a radiant. 

 

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teknopathetic

Posted (edited)

It really seems like the only way to read it is that half-shards are filled with sentient spren. There isn’t any reason to read it another way. I’m very shocked only one person was arguing for this position. The text clearly says that those spren may have once blessed a radiant, and there’s no reason to believe this conversation was a fake-out.

This entire book is about ethics, and radiant spren being used in Fabrials is par for the course so far. 

Anyway, I found this episode quite frustrating and wanted to turn it off quite frequently. I can’t fathom why the majority of the casters refused to accept there was likely slavery going on (and that it was very likely). The amount of mental scaffolding required to disprove the idea is not compelling in any way: “maybe Mr.T was lying and Dalinar didn’t understand and the Stormfather had bad gas at that exact moment and we agree it’s possible but for some reason it is not happening here for unrevealed reasons”...

Me.T could be wrong, but the reader is supposed to believe he is right.

 

Edited by teknopathetic
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Chaos

Posted

6 hours ago, Potus said:

@Chaos @WeiryWriter  @Argent  @Comatose

In the most recent Sanderson Q&A at Idaho Falls, someone asked the question about Half-Shards and the spren:

Dearius [PENDING REVIEW]

Are half-shards made with Radiant spren?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

RAFO! Good question!

source

 

So while it is a RAFO, it seems very likely that the answer is probably "Yes it is a Radient Spren/related to Radient Spren"

I would never assume to mean RAFO means "yes" to be perfectly honest. That could mean anything, and he says "good question" on a huge variety of questions.

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I take everything Taravangian says with a grain of salt. That being said, I don't think he was lying to Dalinar. For being a murderer, he is surprisingly forthcoming with most things. Half shards are a huge accomplishment in the Artifabrian community, so I wouldn't be surprised if some things have leaked out. I would imagine it is a pretty big deal. I personally think they have captured the spren that make the Shardplate for a Radiant. I.e. like Windspren make the Plate for Windrunners. I agree it's probably a Stoneward maybe. Or maybe it is a Higgs-Boson type spren. A fundamental spren? When I think of a spren that shapes the world, I think of a force of nature like gravity or something. But then again all or most spren are forces/pieces of nature. I wish we could've heard more theories from you guys on which or what spren is captured in these Half Shards. I know we don't know that much about other orders of Radiant spren yet. For what it's worth, I think Dalinar, upon hearing Taravangian's revelation, was disturbed at learning about the Half Shards' construction I think his bond with the Stormfather is changing him for the better of course! Thanks guys for the thought provoking podcast!!

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13 hours ago, teknopathetic said:

It really seems like the only way to read it is that half-shards are filled with sentient spren. There isn’t any reason to read it another way. I’m very shocked only one person was arguing for this position. The text clearly says that those spren may have once blessed a radiant, and there’s no reason to believe this conversation was a fake-out.

This entire book is about ethics, and radiant spren being used in Fabrials is par for the course so far. 

Anyway, I found this episode quite frustrating and wanted to turn it off quite frequently. I can’t fathom why the majority of the casters refused to accept there was likely slavery going on (and that it was very likely). The amount of mental scaffolding required to disprove the idea is not compelling in any way: “maybe Mr.T was lying and Dalinar didn’t understand and the Stormfather had bad gas at that exact moment and we agree it’s possible but for some reason it is not happening here for unrevealed reasons”...

Me.T could be wrong, but the reader is supposed to believe he is right.

 

I also agree with this idea, and if it is in fact Stoneward spren that are being used, that might explain why Stonewards have been so absent. Another fact to consider is that the half-shards are developments within the last 6 years, which as shown by Jasnah, is about the time that spren began to sense the incoming Desolation and act to form new Nahel Bonds, so it is plausible that these are Radiant spren.

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ladymxdnight

Posted

When I read that line the first time I thought Tarangian was pretty clearly saying half-shards contained spren that were capable of forming the Nahel bond - I was shocked when I heard this episode and realised other people had a totally different interpretation. 

While Taravangian clearly isn't the most trustworthy person around, I don't see why he would lie to Dalinar about that. Taravangian tends to mix his lies with truths, like in the end of Oathbringer when Dalinar confronts him and he 'confesses' to his machinations. 

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ADIMORTIS

Posted

I was waiting for the KENTON, BRING ME MY BOOMBOX sound....

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Have you guys spoken at all about Old Magic and whether or not it relates to the Purelake? And also the magic Horneaters have separate to everyone else (the ability to see spren when they don’t want to be seen is well known enough to specifically have a name, for instance) I figured both were things that Cultivation has going on. 

 

I’m new to the podcast, and I’m listening to the backlog, so sorry if I’ve missed something

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Gah!  I was facepalming so hard when the completely random first guess managed to be correct on my question. :blink:

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This may be a stupid question, but why do we think it's common knowledge which Spren were associated with which Radient Orders? The average person probably knew about the 10 orders, but did they necessarily know there were specific Spren that bonded different types of Knight? It seems the typical Vorin on the street knew that the Radients:

1) Used to be good

2) Had Shards

3) Went bad

Assuming Taravingian is speaking as if he didn't have any special knowledge, I don't think he could say "Yes, the half-shards use Bindspren (for example), which of course were the Spren that a Stoneward would bond. So this particular type of Spren may have in another time formed a Nahel bond with that particular kind of Knight Radient." So either he's speaking much more knowledgeably than would fit with his cover story, or I grossly misjudged how much people knew about the Radients. I think either he's talking with knowledge he can't explain having in an attempt to frazzle Dalinar, or with he's just talking about Spren as a whole. 

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16 hours ago, thefunkindofevil said:

Have you guys spoken at all about Old Magic and whether or not it relates to the Purelake? And also the magic Horneaters have separate to everyone else (the ability to see spren when they don’t want to be seen is well known enough to specifically have a name, for instance) I figured both were things that Cultivation has going on. 

 

I’m new to the podcast, and I’m listening to the backlog, so sorry if I’ve missed something

The Horneaters' affinity with spren is because they've got a bit of Parsh blood in them.  (So do Herdazians, which is where they get the stone fingernails from.)

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Farnsworth

Posted

Did you just say that nobody has head of the higgs boson? DIIIIIEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THEBOSONSPRENREIGN!!!!!

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Pattern

Posted

On 4.8.2018 at 10:19 PM, ladymxdnight said:

When I read that line the first time I thought Tarangian was pretty clearly saying half-shards contained spren that were capable of forming the Nahel bond - I was shocked when I heard this episode and realised other people had a totally different interpretation. 

I still don't see a reason why there should be a different interpretation. Taravangians words are pretty straight forward, I don't see a hint for "metaphorical" speech. "at another time would have blessed a Radiant" can only mean Radiant spren or cousin spren. Whether it's true or not is a different question.

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@Pattern Right, I don't think Taravangian is speaking metaphorically either. I think that he believes or there is actually a Radiant or cousin spren in Half-Shards. And besides, I'm sure Navani has enough clout to get answers from the Artifabrian community to get the answers.

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@Pattern @whattheHoid Yeah, that's what I thought too. Especially when you take Navani into consideration - what would be the point in lying to Dalinar when it's likely possible for her to find out herself, whether through getting the answers from the Jah Kaved artifabrians or investigating herself? It seems like it would be too easy to get caught in a lie like that.

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Why do we assuming Taravangian is right? Knowing that Radiant powers come from spren is already above what most people knew. Why do we assume he knows which spren bond with Radiants? I think it's entirely possible that he doesn't, and his statement that it could bless a Radiant isn't certainly true.

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@recneps Unless this was in his Diagram. We don't know what is all in the Diagram and they are constantly revising it.

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That's true. Except we do know that the Diagram is highly flawed, and there are many facts that it got wrong. He could know the Radiantspren, or he could not.

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I agree, I have a sneaking suspicion that Taravangian has stumbled upon at least something about Radiantspren. Also he is now the King of Jah Keved and if I remember correctly, that is where the Half-Shards were developed. I can't imagine Taravangian not gathering intelligence about the Half-Shards and the general state of Jah Keved.

 

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