KaladinWorldsinger Posted October 18, 2021 Posted October 18, 2021 My theory revolves around finding the BEST thematic ending for kaladin. The thematic is important because that excludes narrative foreshadowing or clever wordplays and stuff. This is strictly the ending Kaladin should get if the the plot went along with his character arc. For example The name kaladin means 'born unto eternity', the line' Honor is dead, but I'll see what I can do' and 'Son of Tanavast' seems to imply that Kaladin would become Honor. There is foreshadowing but it's not the most natural conclusion to kaladin's arc. Same with him being a herald or becoming king(that one stupid death rattle) What I think the most natural thematic conclusion will be: Kaladin becomes a worldsinger. Kal will go with szeth to shinovar. His budding therapist skills will be put to the test by szeth and ishar. This will become more complicated near the ending with the arrival of Moash. Kal will have a struggle if he really should kill Moash and then chooses to instead talk some sense into Moash. On the other side, something happens to todium prolly and Moash loses his 'gift' to not feel pain. So if he can't escape pain, what will he do? Moash will try to end his miserable life. Kal runs forward, grabs the weapon and says the fifth ideal, 'I will help others protect themselves'. The suicidal character will stop someone from killing themselves. Kool Kaladin moments ensue, for three seconds. Ishar goes crazy again, creates a perpendicularity and pulls syl thru it. Syl becomes a full human.( No I am not a syladin shipper) And Kaladin loses his epic stormlight powers and becomes a normal human again. I am guessing he will still use the windrunnur honorblade for the final fight before giving it up for Dalinar to reforge honor or something. My big theory is that the night of sorrows will be the darkest event in the books, where a major catstrophe occurs, a significant fraction of humanity will die(like a third). The human race will survive by escaping to shadesmar, but be broken by the sudden calamity At the end of book 5, Kaladin will start living more for himself while still doing his best to help other people. He wants to be a therapist. Who has been giving Kaladin free therapy since book one? Wit. The worldsinger who shares stories. Also after a calamity, knowledge will prolly be hard to pass around, humans will be fragmented. Stories, like the legend of stormblessed and a religion around Dalinar and oathbringer will connect people. Kaladin will finally learn how to play a flute and sing honor's and cultivation's rhythms to people as Instructions to create stormlight or lifelight. So kal and sigzil will go around shadesmar listening to and sharing their own stories almost definitely around a stew. Kaladin as the posterboy of the new worldsingers will become the travelling swordsman kind of figure/legend, cuz he will still be a badass in normal combat. He will prolly try to bridge the gap between humans and singers and listeners. In the back half of stormlight, kal will be a zahel,wit kind of figure who wouldn't be invested but still pretty badass. He could be the therapist for the new heroes. He will also reveal that in 10-15 years he has been successful in reviving many of the deadeyes, something he learned from Adolin, which will quite literally save the good guys side. Why does no honorspren bond Kaladin u ask? Because a nahel bond is more 'intimate' than even a romantic bond and I am pretty sure the honorSpren would consider Kaladin 'taken' and violating it 'cheating'. Kaladin might become a edgedancer, but only in the distant future. This is my perfect ending to Kaladin. What do u guys think? 2
Frustration Posted October 18, 2021 Posted October 18, 2021 I have to disagree that Kal won't become Honor, there is too much evidence for it not to happen. 2
KaladinWorldsinger Posted October 18, 2021 Author Posted October 18, 2021 Hmm, I know there is a lot of evidence and foreshadowing for it. But it seems like such a sad ending for kaladin, never having a proper enjoyable life. He will become involved in the greater cosmere wars and will see a lot of his friends and their descendants die. Also the scale of his protection just skyrockets ( one bridge crew,to elhokar, to dailnar, to Urithiru to suddenly all of roshar for the rest of time) I don't know, Kaladin seems like a guy who constantly takes up leadership by responsibility. He becomes a living legend sort of by accident than an actual conscious decision. I really like him on smaller scale problems. Didn't hoid promise him, 'he will be warm again?' 1
Frustration Posted October 18, 2021 Posted October 18, 2021 6 minutes ago, KaladinWorldsinger said: Hmm, I know there is a lot of evidence and foreshadowing for it. But it seems like such a sad ending for kaladin, never having a proper enjoyable life. He will become involved in the greater cosmere wars and will see a lot of his friends and their descendants die. Also the scale of his protection just skyrockets ( one bridge crew,to elhokar, to dailnar, to Urithiru to suddenly all of roshar for the rest of time) I don't know, Kaladin seems like a guy who constantly takes up leadership by responsibility. He becomes a living legend sort of by accident than an actual conscious decision. I really like him on smaller scale problems. Brandon isn't kind to Kal, and then he also is forced to learn when not to save people, now I won't say a quiet ending is impossible, but all evidence is to the contrary. 8 minutes ago, KaladinWorldsinger said: Didn't hoid promise him, 'he will be warm again?' And then it will get worse, and then better, and then worse again, and then better so on and so forth. Also Welcome to the shard.
NameIess Posted October 18, 2021 Posted October 18, 2021 20 minutes ago, KaladinWorldsinger said: My theory revolves around finding the BEST thematic ending for kaladin. The thematic is important because that excludes narrative foreshadowing or clever wordplays and stuff. This is strictly the ending Kaladin should get if the the plot went along with his character arc. For example The name kaladin means 'born unto eternity', the line' Honor is dead, but I'll see what I can do' and 'Son of Tanavast' seems to imply that Kaladin would become Honor. There is foreshadowing but it's not the most natural conclusion to kaladin's arc. Same with him being a herald or becoming king(that one stupid death rattle) What I think the most natural thematic conclusion will be: Kaladin becomes a worldsinger. Kal will go with szeth to shinovar. His budding therapist skills will be put to the test by szeth and ishar. This will become more complicated near the ending with the arrival of Moash. Kal will have a struggle if he really should kill Moash and then chooses to instead talk some sense into Moash. On the other side, something happens to todium prolly and Moash loses his 'gift' to not feel pain. So if he can't escape pain, what will he do? Moash will try to end his miserable life. Kal runs forward, grabs the weapon and says the fifth ideal, 'I will help others protect themselves'. The suicidal character will stop someone from killing themselves. Kool Kaladin moments ensue, for three seconds. Ishar goes crazy again, creates a perpendicularity and pulls syl thru it. Syl becomes a full human.( No I am not a syladin shipper) And Kaladin loses his epic stormlight powers and becomes a normal human again. I am guessing he will still use the windrunnur honorblade for the final fight before giving it up for Dalinar to reforge honor or something. My big theory is that the night of sorrows will be the darkest event in the books, where a major catstrophe occurs, a significant fraction of humanity will die(like a third). The human race will survive by escaping to shadesmar, but be broken by the sudden calamity At the end of book 5, Kaladin will start living more for himself while still doing his best to help other people. He wants to be a therapist. Who has been giving Kaladin free therapy since book one? Wit. The worldsinger who shares stories. Also after a calamity, knowledge will prolly be hard to pass around, humans will be fragmented. Stories, like the legend of stormblessed and a religion around Dalinar and oathbringer will connect people. Kaladin will finally learn how to play a flute and sing honor's and cultivation's rhythms to people as Instructions to create stormlight or lifelight. So kal and sigzil will go around shadesmar listening to and sharing their own stories almost definitely around a stew. Kaladin as the posterboy of the new worldsingers will become the travelling swordsman kind of figure/legend, cuz he will still be a badass in normal combat. He will prolly try to bridge the gap between humans and singers and listeners. In the back half of stormlight, kal will be a zahel,wit kind of figure who wouldn't be invested but still pretty badass. He could be the therapist for the new heroes. He will also reveal that in 10-15 years he has been successful in reviving many of the deadeyes, something he learned from Adolin, which will quite literally save the good guys side. Why does no honorspren bond Kaladin u ask? Because a nahel bond is more 'intimate' than even a romantic bond and I am pretty sure the honorSpren would consider Kaladin 'taken' and violating it 'cheating'. Kaladin might become a edgedancer, but only in the distant future. This is my perfect ending to Kaladin. What do u guys think? I agree with some of the basic ideas behind your theory, but not most of the specifics. For example, Syl might get pulled through to the physical realm, but I don't know if that would cause Kaladin to lose his bond with her. It would certainly do weird things to it, but entirely lose access to stormlight and break their bond? Almost certainly not going to happen. I don't think that todium would do something that causes humanity on Roshar to be nearly wiped out. He needs them in order to "save" the rest of the Cosmere, so I don't see him trying to destroy them, although it could happen due to unchained surges. I think that Kaladin's fourth ideal already covers the whole helping other people to protect themselves. I mean, Kaladin spent a lot of time in tWoK and then OB training bridge 4 to protect themselves, he just couldn't accept that they could do so until he swore the fourth. I think Kaladin's fifth ideal will be a resolution to his oldest problem: Is his father right in saying that you can't kill to protect, or is there a way to kill people and still protect? I think Sigzil will probably stay leader of the Windrunners and Kaladin will be a surgeon, not a worldsinger. Kaladin has a goal already, and I don't think that goal involves telling people about other countries, I think it involves reforming the medical field on Roshar, specifically the psychiatric field. He definitely will learn to play that flute though, and will probably keep up his skills during the timeskip. I agree that Kaladin will be the cool older mentor type of character in the back half of the series, but I don't think he'll revive deadeyes. I think that either all the deadeyes will be revived in KoW, or Adolin will lead other shardbearers to doing so. It looks like you have to bond the spren in order to revive them, and Kaladin probably wouldn't want to do that. All in all, this is a pretty good theory. welcome to the shard! 40 minutes ago, Frustration said: I have to disagree that Kal won't become Honor, there is too much evidence for it not to happen. Yeah, no. There isn't really any evidence for that happening. There is zero foreshadowing that the entire shard of Honor could be reformed. Maybe Kaladin becomes a splinter of Honor, but he's not becoming the entire shard. 9 minutes ago, Frustration said: Brandon isn't kind to Kal, and then he also is forced to learn when not to save people, now I won't say a quiet ending is impossible, but all evidence is to the contrary. Well, Brandon has said that the worst is behind Kaladin. I doubt Kaladin will have a quiet ending but he can at least have a quiet timeskip. 2
KaladinWorldsinger Posted October 18, 2021 Author Posted October 18, 2021 8 minutes ago, Frustration said: Also Welcome to the shard. Thank you ❤️ Quote now I won't say a quiet ending is impossible, but all evidence is to the contrary I am curious, what do you think the significance of the flute is?
Frustration Posted October 18, 2021 Posted October 18, 2021 1 minute ago, Nameless said: Yeah, no. There isn't really any evidence for that happening. There is zero foreshadowing that the entire shard of Honor could be reformed. Maybe Kaladin becomes a splinter of Honor, but he's not becoming the entire shard. Son of Tanavast Closeness to Honor Feels better during storms and hates the Weeping etc. These all come up multiple times, across several books. 6 minutes ago, KaladinWorldsinger said: I am curious, what do you think the significance of the flute is? An intresting object, but of no real consequence. 2
KaladinWorldsinger Posted October 18, 2021 Author Posted October 18, 2021 14 minutes ago, Nameless said: For example, Syl might get pulled through to the physical realm, but I don't know if that would cause Kaladin to lose his bond with her. It would certainly do weird things to it, but entirely lose access to stormlight and break their bond? Almost certainly not going to happen. My thought process was more along the lines of: Kaladin has the strongest possible bond with syl> Syl survives the pull into PR due to the strength of the bond and can actually live > syl becomes a functional human and two humans can't have a nahel bond> so no radiance anymore. Another reason for this happening is that Kaladin if he survives would be a fourth level or fifth level radiant with 10 years of experience. Pretty op for someone who wouldn't be a main character. Quote I don't think that todium would do something that causes humanity on Roshar to be nearly wiped out. He needs them in order to "save" the rest of the Cosmere, so I don't see him trying to destroy them, although it could happen due to unchained surges. Todium is exactly the kind of guy who would destroy one third of humanity to save the two-thirds. Also the night of sorrows prolly happens next book, soo.. something bad might happen. Quote All in all, this is a pretty good theory. welcome to the shard! Thank you ❤️
NameIess Posted October 18, 2021 Posted October 18, 2021 7 minutes ago, Frustration said: Son of Tanavast Closeness to Honor Feels better during storms and hates the Weeping etc. These all come up multiple times, across several books. Just because Kaladin has a strong connection to Honor, it doesn't mean that he'll somehow reform a splintered shard. Odium has had a lot of time to perfect his art, and even Ambition, Odium's very first kill, has not reformed. I know Kaladin is awesome, but I don't think he is "reform a splintered shard, something that has never happened in the history of the Cosmere, by pure willpower" awesome. 1 minute ago, KaladinWorldsinger said: My thought process was more along the lines of: Kaladin has the strongest possible bond with syl> Syl survives the pull into PR due to the strength of the bond and can actually live > syl becomes a functional human and two humans can't have a nahel bond> so no radiance anymore. Another reason for this happening is that Kaladin if he survives would be a fourth level or fifth level radiant with 10 years of experience. Pretty op for someone who wouldn't be a main character. Syl wouldn't just be a normal human. She would be one of the most invested humans in the Cosmere, and she would still have a bond with Kaladin, assuming Ishar didn't take that away. As for Kaladin being too OP as a side character, assuming he survives KoW, he'll still be a main character. Besides that, Jasnah is a fourth ideal Radiant with years of experience, I assume that there will be plenty of other Radiants that swear the fourth or fifth ideals during the time skip, and Kaladin will probably not be in an active combat role. 8 minutes ago, KaladinWorldsinger said: Todium is exactly the kind of guy who would destroy one third of humanity to save the two-thirds. Also the night of sorrows prolly happens next book, soo.. something bad might happen. I agree that the last ten days are going to be awful, but I don't think that TOdium is going to render Roshar uninhabitable unless he can help it. He needs a good staging ground for his inter-planetary war. 1
Frustration Posted October 18, 2021 Posted October 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, Nameless said: Just because Kaladin has a strong connection to Honor, it doesn't mean that he'll somehow reform a splintered shard. Odium has had a lot of time to perfect his art, and even Ambition, Odium's very first kill, has not reformed. I know Kaladin is awesome, but I don't think he is "reform a splintered shard, something that has never happened in the history of the Cosmere, by pure willpower" awesome. Uli Da was Odium's first kill, he didn't Splinter Ambition until later, but that's beside the point. Mistborn Spoilers Spoiler Fusing shards hadn't been done in the history of the Cosmere until Sazed.
NameIess Posted October 18, 2021 Posted October 18, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Frustration said: Uli Da was Odium's first kill, he didn't Splinter Ambition until later, but that's beside the point. Mistborn Spoilers Reveal hidden contents Fusing shards hadn't been done in the history of the Cosmere until Sazed. (MB) Spoiler Yeah, but no one had ever tried to do it before, so far as I know. Another point against the Kaladin ascension is Vin. Kaladin and Vin are already very similar, and having both of them ascend would just be repetetive. Edited October 18, 2021 by Nameless
Frustration Posted October 18, 2021 Posted October 18, 2021 3 minutes ago, Nameless said: (MB) Reveal hidden contents Yeah, but no one had ever tried to do it before, so far as I know. Another point against the Kaladin ascension is Vin. Kaladin and Vin are already very similar, and having both of them ascend would just be repetetive. Going to be hard to use Shards, ever, if you can't do anything similar.
NameIess Posted October 18, 2021 Posted October 18, 2021 Just now, Frustration said: Going to be hard to use Shards, ever, if you can't do anything similar. (MB spoilers) Spoiler Taravangian ascended without it feeling similar to Vin. I'm just saying, if Kaladin ascended it would literally be the exact same circumstances as Vin. Broken person becomes he best _______ in the whole wide world, tries to use powers to save the world, gets specifically targeted by enemy shard via hallucinations, has a lot of their friends die, has a friend that turns evil, almost succumbs to said enemy shard's manipulation, but in the end survives and takes up a shard in order to save the universe. Another point is that Brandon specifically wrote Kelsier as saving Preservation from splintering. That wouldn't have been necessary if splintered shards can just be reformed with sheer connection to the shard. 1
KaladinWorldsinger Posted October 18, 2021 Author Posted October 18, 2021 Quote The land was trembling. The wall of dust was being caused by something. Something approaching. The ground was falling away. Dalinar gasped. The very rocks ahead were shattering, breaking apart, becoming dust. He backed away as everything began to shake, a massive earthquake accompanied by a terrible roar of dying rocks. He fell to the ground. There was an awful, grinding, terrifying moment of nightmare. The shaking, the destruction, the sounds of the land itself seeming to die. Then it was past. Dalinar breathed in and out before rising on unsteady legs. He and the figure stood on a solitary pinnacle of rock. A little section that—for some reason—had been protected. It was like a stone pillar a few paces wide, rising high into the air. Around it, the land was gone. Kholinar was gone. It had all fallen away into unplumbed darkness below. He felt vertigo, standing on the tiny bit of rock that —impossibly—remained Quote I agree that the last ten days are going to be awful, but I don't think that TOdium is going to render Roshar uninhabitable unless he can help it. He needs a good staging ground for his inter-planetary war. Well if the duststorm continues, there wouldn't be much ground left. I also don't know what a event like this would do to plate tectonics. Make a planet uninhabitable maybe. Relocation to shadesmar? I like to think the duststorm is the night of sorrows
NameIess Posted October 18, 2021 Posted October 18, 2021 7 minutes ago, KaladinWorldsinger said: Well if the duststorm continues, there wouldn't be much ground left. I also don't know what a event like this would do to plate tectonics. Make a planet uninhabitable maybe. Relocation to shadesmar? I like to think the duststorm is the night of sorrows Considering what happened in OB, the storm was meant to be a metaphorical representation of the return of Odium and the voidbringers. Honor thought that the war would destroy Roshar, not the Everstorm. 1
+Invocation Posted October 18, 2021 Posted October 18, 2021 26 minutes ago, KaladinWorldsinger said: Well if the duststorm continues, there wouldn't be much ground left. I also don't know what a event like this would do to plate tectonics. Make a planet uninhabitable maybe. Relocation to shadesmar? I like to think the duststorm is the night of sorrows Roshar doesn't have plate tectonics, so that wouldn't factor in. 1
KaladinWorldsinger Posted October 18, 2021 Author Posted October 18, 2021 16 minutes ago, Nameless said: Considering what happened in OB, the storm was meant to be a metaphorical representation of the return of Odium and the voidbringers. Honor thought that the war would destroy Roshar, not the Everstorm. Quote A man stood on a cliffside and watched his homeland fall into dust. The waters surged beneath, so far beneath. And he heard a child crying. They were his own tears. His homeland falls into dust. I feel like this might be real.
NameIess Posted October 18, 2021 Posted October 18, 2021 Just now, KaladinWorldsinger said: His homeland falls into dust. I feel like this might be real. That could also be a metaphor, or it could refer to Dalinar's visions. Or it could refer to something that already happened on Ashyn.
Tglassy Posted October 18, 2021 Posted October 18, 2021 (edited) I've always assumed that the "Unite Them" that Dalinar keeps hearing from Honor was referring to the splintered pieces of the Shards, not the Alethi princes, or even the nations of the world. Honor is telling him to Unite the Shard pieces to reform Honor. Which, I think, is something Dalinar is uniquely able to do, being bonded to the remnant of Honor (the Stormfather), and having the power of Spiritual Connection. I think he's going to ascend to take Honor's Place, but will be called Unity rather than Honor. I don't see Kaladin becoming Honor. Yes, he loves storms, he rides the winds, he HAS honor, and he bonded an Honor Spren, but Dalinar has literally bonded with Honor's Shadow, and is doing things no one thought possible. Even Dalinar's third Ideal was unique. The Stormfather was surprised when he spoke it and it WORKED as an Ideal. Edited October 18, 2021 by Tglassy
Infinity Sliver Posted October 20, 2021 Posted October 20, 2021 I don't see why people keep saying Kal will Ascend to been Honor.The son of Tanavast thing makes him special yea,but there still isn't much evidence for it 1
Crylorenzo he/him Posted October 21, 2021 Posted October 21, 2021 I like this approach to thinking about Kal and I have a thematic theory to add: What is one major reveal near the end of the Way of Kings - that Kaladin had the chance to have a Shardblade, but rejected it. One major theme of Kaladin's is learning to give up power - giving up revenge, giving up the need to protect everyone, learning to let others take care of themselves. I think that Kaladin has been foreshadowed as being Connected to Honor and I believe the chance to become Honor will be offered him, but then he will, in the name of the greater good, give it up. Sound familiar? MB Major Spoilers Spoiler In The Well of Ascension, Vin is tricked into beginning to take up the power and then letting it go in the name of the greater good. In her circumstance, it was the wrong choice (or net right in the end all things considered?) but it was a fascinating choice. Brandon loves to explore opposite choices and opposite consequences: Elantris and Warbreaker Minor Spoilers Spoiler In Elantris, Sarene has prearranged marriage, but escapes the immediate consequences (maritally) due to Raoden not being there. In contrast, Siri in Warbreaker has a prearranged Marriage and cannot escape its immediate marital consequences. There are more examples of this in Brandon's writing and I could easily see in Kaladin the idea of "What if beginning to take up Honor, but instead Dispersing it for the greater good was actually a good thing?" This would fit Kaladin thematically, leave room for him to become a cognitive shadow and, at the same time, fulfill Kaladin's arc quite nicely I think. 4
KaladinWorldsinger Posted October 22, 2021 Author Posted October 22, 2021 Quote What is one major reveal near the end of the Way of Kings - that Kaladin had the chance to have a Shardblade, but rejected it. One major theme of Kaladin's is learning to give up power - giving up revenge, giving up the need to protect everyone, learning to let others take care of themselves. Since we are on the internet, you sadly cannot see me hyperventilating about what you just said and how this was genius. I was a little unconvinced before about my theory( I still think this is how Kaladin should end) but I didn't actually think that Kaladin would lose his powers. You sir have convinced me of my own theory, have my damn upvote 2
AerionBFII he/him Posted October 22, 2021 Posted October 22, 2021 I personally think Kaladin would take up the Shard of Honour, there have been hints that he would pick it up and there have been a lot of allusions that there is a link between him and Honour/Tanavast but nothing conclusive that he is meant to be 'the one'. It is equally as likely Dalinar could pick it up or even Tal. I just know Brandon likes to toy around with expectations, the fact we learn Kaladin turned down a shard in the first book only to end his personal arc as picking one up would be poetic. Maybe I am bias because I want Kaladin to be involved in the larger role of the Cosmere but it seems atleast plausible. 1
KnightsOfHonor Posted October 22, 2021 Posted October 22, 2021 I don't think Kaladin is going to pick up the Shard of Honor. I think he will either become a background character similar to Zahel like was mentioned or killed or (MB / MB SH spoilers) Spoiler he will end up filling a similar role as Kelsier. The reason I think one of these 3 options is likely is because of how similar Kelsier and Kaladin are. They both are obsessed with saving everyone; they both are great at taking a bunch of different and downtrodden people and forming capable crews (their names are a pain to tell apart for someone like me haha) .... the list goes on and on. Once the big crossovers start to happen, there is not room for two characters who basically fill the same role in their respective stories. So, ether you write one of them out (by killing one or making one a background character) or you pit them against each other with each filling a similar role but for different groups of people / shards / organizations. There are just enough differences between them mixed with all the similarities for them to really clash. Maybe being forced to work together at times to achieve similar goals, but quite often at odds with each other. Out of the 3, this one seems the most likely to me.
+sugjesstive Posted October 25, 2021 Posted October 25, 2021 On 10/18/2021 at 3:16 PM, KaladinWorldsinger said: My theory revolves around finding the BEST thematic ending for kaladin. ----- What I think the most natural thematic conclusion will be: Kaladin becomes a worldsinger. I like this theory because it addresses the damn flute, which has been driving me wild for some time. I also casually wonder if the flute in particular will have anything to do with the pure tone(s)/rhythm of Roshar? Hmm.
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