Long Game 79/Anonymous Game 10: The Rhythm of Freedom

[Opal Lion]

4 minutes ago, Plum Rhinoceros said:

Edit: Is Falcon not an option? I thought they were in Mateform.

Falcon claimed to have left mateform. Possible they were lying about it but I don't see what's to be gained in that scenario. But sure, we can hit up Falcon in a PM too  Just get your buddies to check in, everyone! PM buddies don't let PM buddies get body-snatched.

8 minutes ago, Amber Vulture said:

Edit: Lion, how'd you narrow down to Weasel or Scorpion so quick? 

Malibu rules - if it were a Malibu bodysnatch, it's written up like this:

<Original Malibu Name> was a <Victim's Alignment + Victim's Role>

Rhino asked about this D1. So on the supposition this is a Malibu takeover, because that's the hypothesis we're trying to test, Malibu had to have killed a mateform. The only two declared/existing mateforms are Weasel and Scorp - Falcon claimed to have abandoned mateform N3 and I see little reason to lie about that but I agree with Rhino, might as well do a Malibu check-in anyway.

Weasel would be a good Malibu target but this ignores one thing which is that Weasel vouched for Hyena being in mateform, and accounts for one missing mateform gem. So in this scenario, we would already have to suppose Weasel was very likely Evil anyway, and that the Elim team essentially killed one of their own, which...okay, thanks?  

D4 Gems Taken:

Quote

- 2 nimbleform gems
- 1 workform gems
- 0 mateform gems
- 1 artform gem (claimed by Tuatara)

Here we go.

[Plum Rhinoceros]

Hmm... the Hyena kill was probably just a normal kill- that's put us at 7/5, with Flamingo being Malibu. I'm thinking Hyena was killed specifically to look like Malibu jumped, so that Flamingo could survive another exe 'proving' they're in Meditationform, and by the time they're proven not to be, oops, 6-5 in the Night cycle, game over.

Or at least that's my theory. But it of course is worth checking with Scorp/Weasel/Falcon.

[Opal Lion]

Elim kill comes first on Night OoA so it doesn't matter if the victim was donning mateform - they'd still be reflected as their original form when they die so we don't need to consider anyone else. Even if Rhino felt the need to make kissy faces last night (  ) , if the bodysnatch had hit him, the write-up would've said dead warform so that set of possibilities can be safely excluded.

7 minutes ago, Plum Rhinoceros said:

Hmm... the Hyena kill was probably just a normal kill- that's put us at 7/5, with Flamingo being Malibu. I'm thinking Hyena was killed specifically to look like Malibu jumped, so that Flamingo could survive another exe 'proving' they're in Meditationform, and by the time they're proven not to be, oops, 6-5 in the Night cycle, game over.

So the one weakness in that (and my theory) is that if we hit another Elim, it's goodbye to that plan anyway. But given the amount of aggro that Flamingo was attracting and that they could, if we're at 7/5, end the game tonight with a mislynch, I could see an Elim Team running for this anyway. I guess the way I'd put it is that if this were a C2-C3 thing, I'd be a lot more convinced. Right now, not so sure.

I can also say that some players have reported receiving Elim gems - they have no reason to comment on it if they wanted to swap teams, but it's worth noting the Evil Scholarform hypothesis is likely true; either that, or they're distributing original gems from their stash. So 7/5 might not even be an issue when they could be gambling on 7/6. (7/7 unlikely or the game would have been called barring mediationform.) More attendant uncertainty as well based on who mediationform ended up with.

But I've always said broader scope of discussion is good, and as much as I am wary of both Flamingo and Tuatara for the timing of the train-starting votes, I really think we should put pressure on the narrowed suspect field because we probably can't afford to get this one wrong. The Elim team doesn't really need the Malibu kill to be unblockable since 2/3 warforms have already been hit.

[Plum Rhinoceros]

5 minutes ago, Opal Lion said:

it's worth noting the Evil Scholarform hypothesis is likely true

The only candidates for that are Beagle and Heron, right?

And I'm thinking about this more... does it even make sense for elim!Malibu!Hyena to use their ability? Hyena was pretty much trusted and confirmed from everyone- they could have just killed Lion or someone else and then easily exed Flamingo for the win, there was no need to transfer bodies. And they'd want to save the unblockable kill for the 6-5 Night. I don't see that happening.

[Amber Vulture]

For now, my vote's going on Flamingo. I don't know why v!they wouldn't just make a PM last night to help the team. That would've basically implicated two elims, right? Their instistance on doing something else seemed like a stalling tactic. It's weird they didn't ultimately choose to body hop, but the initial reaction screamed evil to me. 

Famigo

[Opal Lion]

10 minutes ago, Plum Rhinoceros said:

The only candidates for that are Beagle and Heron, right?

In theory but not in practice.

Elim could've claimed the scholarform gem and just sat on it, as Heron pointed out in a group PM. Beagle and Heron are only scholarform candidates in virtue of meeting the requirements for it. In theory, Mouse could be too, if we assume Mouse got it, went inactive, and then met the post length requirements subsequently - I'd have to check but I think they're doing enough RP for it.

But this would just point us, IMO, back to the Tuatara-Flamingo duo because Vulture already claimed Scholarform. Weasel or Scorp could be if we assumed they got it and sat on it but then that would require three complicit players, I think: it requires Weasel and Scorp to both be lying about having become D2 mates, and requires another teammate to have gotten mateform and conveniently wound up mates with one of Weasel and Scorp instead of with Falcon...and so on. I feel like that's a bit too involved.

Edited to add: With Flamingo's mediationform claim, I honestly feel we've hit the point where it's just better to also go over the results of yesterday's clusterchull (the Day lynch) and do vote and post analysis as well. We don't want to be wrong and if we over-hyperfocus on Malibu and ignore Malibu's teammates, what's the point? It'd be nice to take Malibu out before bodyhopping can ensue, but really, as long as we take out an Elim today, we're in a better position.

Edited July 31, 2021 by Opal Lion

[Amethyst Scorpion]

Another green on the list, but not what I expected. I really expected Flamingo to hop, or whoever the real Mavset-im was to hop if we got it wrong. Maybe they did?

Either way, I think we’re okay voting on Flamingo for now. I’m okay with being convinced if we get evidence of another being Mavset or if we get enough to go after someone else as Eim, but for now I’m relatively convinced Flamingo is Mavset and just couldn’t hop last night, or is covering for them.

[Amber Vulture]

6 minutes ago, Amethyst Scorpion said:

Another green on the list, but not what I expected. I really expected Flamingo to hop, or whoever the real Mavset-im was to hop if we got it wrong. Maybe they did?

Either way, I think we’re okay voting on Flamingo for now. I’m okay with being convinced if we get evidence of another being Mavset or if we get enough to go after someone else as Eim, but for now I’m relatively convinced Flamingo is Mavset and just couldn’t hop last night, or is covering for them.

Hey Scorp, what'd you use your action for last night? 

[Plum Rhinoceros]

I can confirm that both Scorpion and Falcon are not Malibu 2.0

[Emerald Falcon]

Okay, just to make sure we're covering our bases. @Cream Tuatara you are claiming to be in Nimbleform, right? Please send two PMs today with the maximum amount of people. We haven't confirmed your alibi yet. Cycle 3, you claimed to forget about your extra action, and Cycle 4, you claimed to send a PM to only Flamingo (Could be faked if you're both evil, or disputed by Flamingo if they're evil) and grabbing an extra gemstone (Could be done by a teammate). Flamingo is clearly the runaway favorite right now, so I want to make sure our analysis is solid first.

[Cream Tuatara]

7 minutes ago, Emerald Falcon said:

Okay, just to make sure we're covering our bases. @Cream Tuatara you are claiming to be in Nimbleform, right? Please send two PMs today with the maximum amount of people. We haven't confirmed your alibi yet. Cycle 3, you claimed to forget about your extra action, and Cycle 4, you claimed to send a PM to only Flamingo (Could be faked if you're both evil, or disputed by Flamingo if they're evil) and grabbing an extra gemstone (Could be done by a teammate). Flamingo is clearly the runaway favorite right now, so I want to make sure our analysis is solid first.

You can only use the extra action once per cycle apparantly, but I will use it today. 

[Amber Vulture]

2 minutes ago, Cream Tuatara said:

You can only use the extra action once per cycle apparantly, but I will use it today. 

Probably worth mentioning your lack of action last Night. I think Falcon raises a valid concern here, who do you plan on PMing? 

[Cream Tuatara]

34 minutes ago, Amber Vulture said:

Probably worth mentioning your lack of action last Night. I think Falcon raises a valid concern here, who do you plan on PMing? 

The three first people on the player list that aren't dead nor are already in a PM with me for my first action. Then the next three of the same requirements.

Edit: I accidentally forgot Falcon. That leaves @Onyx Flamingo @Opal Lion and (not Rhino) @Oxblood Beagle

Edited July 31, 2021 by Cream Tuatara

[Opal Lion]

1 hour ago, Emerald Falcon said:

Flamingo is clearly the runaway favorite right now, so I want to make sure our analysis is solid first.

There's one possible escape hatch, if you remember Maili and Pyro: there's nothing wrong with claiming Thug because it's generally not really testable unless/until you get killed and by that point, it really doesn't matter.

Let's go back to Step One and list the known facts.

• Eleven players obtained gems D1. (We'll now say ten, by excluding Crocodile.) Seven did not. This is supported by the gem numbers. Of the gems that were taken, we know 4 mateform gems, 2 scholarform gems, 3 warform gems, and 1 artform gem were taken.
   
• These are the players we know for a fact did not get gems: <Ross, Ostrich, Dingo>. If they had gotten gems D1, they wouldn't have died dullform. It's not impossible they gained gems and it went back to the Village stash, but it would require gem requests such that the movement was covered - it would also be odd because players usually request roles they want so they have no reason not to use them.
   
• These are the players we know for a fact did get gems: <Rhino, Dragonfly, Penguin>. If Dragonfly had not gotten a warform gem D1, Dragonfly could not have survived the N2 kill. Similarly, because no one contested Rhino's N2 PM claim, Rhino could not have survived the N3 kill if he hadn't attuned N1. Penguin died a rebel mateform.
   
• These are the claims known with high certainty: <Lion, Flamingo, Hyena>. If Lion had gotten a gem D1, Lion should have attuned it, but instead burned a N1 PM that Rhino, Vulture, and Ross all attested to. Flamingo both claimed to Lion to not have found a gem and sent Lion a N1 PM. Same reasoning applies for both: if they had found a gem, they should have spent N1 attuning it. Highly likely that Hyena died rebel mateform, and no extra gems showed up, so they were telling the truth.
   
• These are the claims known with moderate certainty: <Vulture, Falcon, Scorp, Weasel>. Vulture claimed scholarform and has been acting consistently with it; there have been no counterclaimants, and Vulture seems to have a way to partly prove it. At the same time, Village scholars may not want to emerge from hiding, so this is not entirely decisive. Scorp and Weasel could be lying but they'd both have to be lying, or a third player would have to be. Falcon could be lying, but this would be odd - they'd have no way of knowing Penguin didn't attune N1.

Let's look at our current pools based off the state of claims and info:

Mateform: <Scorp, Weasel, Penguin, Falcon>

Warform: <Rhino, Dragonfly>

Scholarform: <Vulture>

No Gem: <Ross, Ostrich, Dingo, Hyena, Lion, Flamingo>

Here are those unaccounted for:

<Beagle, Heron, Mouse, Tuatara>

Here's the deal.

• Heron hinted/claimed to me and Rhino D3 (I believe; when they were up for the lynch) that they had a role but were deciding whether or not to say it. I advised against doing so, FWIW.
   
• Mouse has claimed they did not go for the artform gem.
   
• Beagle has soft-claimed they are not in Scholarform.
   
• Beagle, Mouse, and Heron are the only three meeting the scholarform and warform requirements. Unlikely in my view that an Elim would let it lapse.
   
• Tuatara has claimed they failed to get a gem D1 and went nimbleform D2.

Let's take a look at the Malibu issue. There are only four possibilities for Malibu D1:

• Malibu went for the warform/scholarform gem. If so, Malibu would have failed, given the warform/scholarform pile-up. This means that Malibu has to be within our group of <Lion, Flamingo, Beagle, Heron, Mouse, Tuatara.>
   
• Malibu went for the mateform gem. If so, Malibu would have succeeded because demand < supply. This means that at least one of our three D1 mateform claimants is lying. If Scorp lied, then Weasel would have to be lying as well since they both claimed to be in mateform D2. Weasel cannot be lying since Malibu cannot have a form, and Hyena was a rebel mateform. [Note: This is only true if we've ascertained that no Malibu bodysteal happened.] Falcon cannot be lying since Malibu cannot have a form, and Penguin was a rebel mateform.
   
• Malibu went for the artform gem. We don't actually have an artform gem claimant, so we are left with the same group: <Lion, Flamingo, Beagle, Heron, Mouse, Tuatara.>
   
• Malibu did not put in an action, or collected an Elim gem. We are still left with the same group: <Lion, Flamingo, Beagle, Heron, Mouse, Tuatara.>

So of this group:

Let's look again at the various claims. <Flamingo, Tuatara, Lion> all claimed to have failed D1. <Mouse, Heron, Beagle> made no claim. Given the numbers, if we take the claim at face value, then Malibu must be either Flamingo or Tuatara. I'm ruling out Lion due to the artform stuff.

But suppose that one of <Mouse, Heron, Beagle> is Malibu. What are the implications?

• They may have gone for the artform gem. This is the one possibility in which Flamingo and Tuatara could be telling the truth. I feel like that's a strange play for Malibu - they may not have seen that far ahead, and I feel like Malibu would have played the deprivation game so I ascribe low to moderate probability.
   
• They may have gone for the warform/scholarform gem. If so, they certainly failed. Moreover, this implies that someone <Tuatara, Flamingo> is lying about having failed to score a gem D1, meaning they are almost certainly Malibu's Evil accomplice because there were only seven failures. If we add Malibu to the failure pool, then we have to subtract someone. This means Tuatara or Flamingo went for an artform gem, succeeded, but lied about it to cover for Malibu. But again, why go for artform if you could go for an Elim pool gem?
   
• If they went for the mateform gem, then one of <Scorp, Weasel, Falcon> is lying. It is unlikely to me that Weasel is lying, but it would implicate Scorp as well since Scorp claimed to be mates with Weasel D2. So Scorp, Weasel, and one of <Mouse, Heron, Beagle> would be Elim in this scenario. Same problem if Scorp is lying. It is unlikely that Falcon is lying due to not knowing if Penguin would pop into mateform N1.
   
• If they took no action or took an Elim gem, then they would be indistinguishable from the failure pool. Once again, this implies that someone <Tuatara, Flamingo> is lying about having failed to score a gem D1, meaning they are almost certainly Malibu's Evil accomplice because there were only seven failures. If we add Malibu to the failure pool, then we have to subtract someone. This means Tuatara or Flamingo went for an artform gem, succeeded, but lied about it to cover for Malibu. Same problem as the warform/scholarform stream.

These are my thoughts. Let me know if I've missed something out. In short, it's not theoretically impossible it's Beagle or Heron - warform and scholarform are convenient places for Malibu to hide - but if so, someone who claimed to have failed D1 would be complicit which still points us back to Tuatara or Flamingo being sus. The failure and success numbers are immutable and we know four Villagers failed D1, and we're quite certain I failed as well, so if we often need to postulate an accomplice for Malibu.

This is why I say we should also look at the previous cycles - we should be relying on reads as well to rule out possibilities where possible. The cycle is young and we need to discuss more.

[Steeldancer]

Why is everyone calling it Malibu 

[Amber Vulture]

13 minutes ago, Steeldancer said:

Why is everyone calling it Malibu 

Rhymes better with Caribou

[Onyx Flamingo]

3 hours ago, Amber Vulture said:

For now, my vote's going on Flamingo. I don't know why v!they wouldn't just make a PM last night to help the team. That would've basically implicated two elims, right? Their instistance on doing something else seemed like a stalling tactic. It's weird they didn't ultimately choose to body hop, but the initial reaction screamed evil to me. 

Famigo

Because then I wouldn't have mediationform now. Why give elims another opportunity to destroy it just so I could prove I wouldn't take an action I can't take?

I'm going to vote Heron. I know that ideally I would vote alone, and I will so long as I'm not going to potentially die. Just make sure in vote counts to include mine as two.

Oh. Heron, my name is Flamingo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die. (hopefully that counts as my reasoning)

[Cream Tuatara]

33 minutes ago, Steeldancer said:

Why is everyone calling it Malibu 

Because someone (I think Vulture) had a bad case of autocorrect and it said Malibu instead of Mavset. Opal then said that they liked that and started using it and everybody copied Opal.

[Mint Heron]

Okay, I've been trying to figure out how to go about this and honestly? I have no clue.

So, first, I've decided to get a vote count.

Flamingo (4): Rhino, Tuatara, Vulture, Scorpion
Heron (3): Lion, Flamingo

This is assuming that Flamingo is being honest about actually being in mediationform, though we can't be certain of that.

I think I'm going to vote for Scorpion. This is the only thing that makes any amount of sense to me. I don't believe that Flamingo is the Malibu, and either Scorpion was an elim or they got Malibu'd.

New VC: 

Flamingo (4): Rhino, Tuatara, Vulture, Scorpion
Heron (3): Lion, Flamingo
Scorpion (1): Heron

This is the only thing that makes sense to me. I haven't once gotten Malibu vibes from Flamingo, and I've suspected Scorpion in the past.

[Plum Rhinoceros]

6 minutes ago, Mint Heron said:

I think I'm going to vote for Scorpion. This is the only thing that makes any amount of sense to me. I don't believe that Flamingo is the Malibu, and either Scorpion was an elim or they got Malibu'd.

Scorpion didn't get Malibu'd, they responded in my PM with them. Meaning, that once Tuatara's PMs actually get confirmed (which I believe they will) Malibu has to be either Flamingo or Weasel. So you should vote Weasel, if not Flamingo. I don't understand your thinking here.

Weasel hasn't been on the Shard in 17 hours, (heh) but assuming they come back and see my PM, we'll know one way or the other.

6 minutes ago, Mint Heron said:

I haven't once gotten Malibu vibes from Flamingo

I haven't either (save post-accusation), but all actual evidence points to Flamingo. I can understand you not reading Lion's megaposts I suppose but there were TL;DRs and it's pretty clear at this point.

Edited July 31, 2021 by Plum Rhinoceros

[Opal Lion]

Did a huge vote analysis post from D4, and the editor ate that, and I'm tired and on painkillers so I'll do it up some other time. I'm just going to do my main conclusions:

• There was a lot of end cycle volatility but I feel that the main suspects: Vulture, Dragonfly, and Lion are people I have varying degrees of Village reads on, so. I also think that Elims could not have managed to be this collectively chaotic so I guess not E/E/E anyway?  
   
• I don't find self-pres intrinsically suspicious from Beagle - unless we're expecting Beagle to know or be able to follow the vote shifts, asking Beagle to ensure no tie ensues is a hard ask. I just don't find it to be intrinsically AI, period.
   
• The main trains were Tuatara-Hyena-Beagle though it became a Hyena-Beagle slugfest near the end. We know Hyena is a Villager; we don't know about Beagle but my view is that Beagle should be either Village or a warform Elim. I don't see how Elims are this chill about end cycle volatility with a potential one-vote difference leading to a lynch. I have somewhat weaker credence in Villager Tuatara now, but need to go back and redo the vote analysis from D1-D3, just that it's not gonna happen today/now.
   
• Heron is plain weird but Evil Heron doesn't make sense. Heron has an extremely self-conscious and defensive post prior to voting Falcon that doesn't sit well with me. It's early in the cycle, why are you so concerned about ties? Comes back to a sense that Heron is very keen on optics rather than trying to get it right. It's also not exactly awful that Heron's named lead suspects, Falcon and Tuatara, have Falcon voting on Tuatara. Elim distancing happens so why tell us you know this seems contradictory?

Quote

 

• Problem with Evil Heron is that their tie-breaking is just senseless either way you look at it. Heron is presented with a Tuatara-Hyena-Beagle tie and ultimately throws down on Hyena. Coupled with Heron's prior voting (cf. D2), this looks really bad considering that Heron hit the one player we now know with high likelihood was a Villager. But this makes little sense if Heron is Evil - Heron has no reason to prefer Village Hyena to Village Tuatara. But if Tuatara is also Evil, then this doesn't explain why Heron was so comfortable with leaving their vote on Tuatara D1 even after Tuatara became the lead train and Mouse voted on Tuatara as well. It was Ross who swung the train single-handedly from Tuatara to Swan. Noteworthy that Flamingo voted after Lion and Scorpion on that Swan train, and Ross sealed it with the swing.
   
• Flamingo's hop off the Hyena train could be not wanting to get caught on a bad train but it feels too early for such a move. But three votes accumulate on Beagle shortly and then Flamingo hops off and votes on Heron. It could be an attempt to splinter/peel votes off further.
   
• The question to ask as always is: where are the Elims? If the main chaos was largely Village-aligned, then it seems like the Elims were once again split up, in hiding, or simply not voting. Once again, Scorpion and Flamingo stand out for splinter trains, though the Mouse-Falcon votes on Tuatara also remained remarkably stable. Of the Hyena and Beagle trains, suspect at most one Elim candidate on them. Again and again, I think we are prompted to look at the peripherals.

Edited to add:

1 hour ago, Onyx Flamingo said:

I'm going to vote Heron. I know that ideally I would vote alone, and I will so long as I'm not going to potentially die. Just make sure in vote counts to include mine as two.

Honestly I don't really care about that as long as we get an Elim today. It's nice to get Malibu because this means no worrying about unblockable kills and bodysnatching and Malibu has traces and is a confirmed Elim but any Elim gets us out of our predicament so it doesn't really matter.

Edited July 31, 2021 by Opal Lion

[Amber Vulture]

1 hour ago, Onyx Flamingo said:

Because then I wouldn't have mediationform now. Why give elims another opportunity to destroy it just so I could prove I wouldn't take an action I can't take?

I'm going to vote Heron. I know that ideally I would vote alone, and I will so long as I'm not going to potentially die. Just make sure in vote counts to include mine as two.

Have the elims bothered to use Decayform at all this game? And why would double votes be higher priority targets than Warforms for destruction? 

You put yourself in a position to potentially fake the double votes. Either you solo vote, and therefore waste the power, or vote in a group and all we'll know is one person in that group can double. I'm sure you can fake feeling the need to move at last minute and string us along for longer. It's a worse play than having an immediately provable Night action would be. 

And why we're you afraid of being a known vote doubler? Sure it could make you a slightly bigger target, but there's enough risk that you'll vote the wrong way anyway that elims don't usually target people with the role just for that. 

I'm not understanding your mindset and that's confusing me. I would have immediately donned the form and tried to counter the elims' vote coordination advantage 

Edit: @Mint Heron what's your theorized elim team right now? It's easy to pick one person to sus. Naming a whole group should be harder for the elims, so I'm curious if you can do it

Edited July 31, 2021 by Amber Vulture

[Mint Heron]

15 minutes ago, Amber Vulture said:

Edit: @Mint Heron what's your theorized elim team right now? It's easy to pick one person to sus. Naming a whole group should be harder for the elims, so I'm curious if you can do it

Scorpion, Weasel, you, Tuatara, and if there’s a 5th? One of Beagle or Falcon. That’s all I have time to say right now, gotta go.

[Onyx Flamingo]

10 minutes ago, Amber Vulture said:

And why we're you afraid of being a known vote doubler?

Double voting power is inherently more useful later in the game. Why use it early and give elims more chance to kill me?

And how is having an extra village vote worse than sending a useless PM? I don't get this. I still used an action and can prove I'm not Mavset. If you can name one other reason why I'm elim other than Lion's suggestion that I was Mavset because I lied about failing to get the mediationform gem (which I have now used), then by all means, vote for me. But if it is literally just that I'm Mavset, give me this turn to prove that I do, indeed, have an extra vote.

I guess I just have a different playstyle. I'm not used to this bold new world of claiming roles and actions. I don't think it's inherently more useful for village to know what everyone does because it leads to faulty assumptions of innocence because everyone lies in SE, even villagers.

[Opal Lion]

43 minutes ago, Onyx Flamingo said:

And how is having an extra village vote worse than sending a useless PM?

With Flamingo on this one, emphasis Village. Steel clarified the wincon/losecon is predicated on parity with Elims and/or inability to resist. Due to no vigkills and ties meaning no lynches, we auto-lose at parity given NK or Malibu kill. The only exception is if we have enough voting firepower that the Elims can't actually tie the vote.

46 minutes ago, Onyx Flamingo said:

I guess I just have a different playstyle. I'm not used to this bold new world of claiming roles and actions. I don't think it's inherently more useful for village to know what everyone does because it leads to faulty assumptions of innocence because everyone lies in SE, even villagers.

I'd argue it's situational. I'd agree with this C1-C2 and haven't been exchanging claims through the game, but I think once we're very close to lylo, obsession with secrecy starts to hurt more than it helps.

I was never a disciple of Meta but the one lesson I do take away from him is on keeping my suspicions fluid and I'm getting a strong frustrated Villager toneread off Flamingo. We haven't even hit the 12 hour mark so I really want to hear more from @Amethyst Scorpion, @Oxblood Beagle, and @Azure Mouse as well. My vote is remaining on Heron in the meanwhile.