So, what exactly *are* Tamu Keks? Let's try and find out.

[LewsTherinTelescope]

After certain recent WoBs, I've gone searching through the samples for things related to Tamu Keks. Here's what I've found. (Note that a couple lines are not confirmed to be Tamu Kek-related, but it feels very likely with context.)

---

Words of Brandon:

Tamu Keks can be used to communicate across realms and space, like seons. (WoB has slight RoW spoilers, not sure if I'm allowed to post it tagged in here or not, so I'll remove it if need be.)

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

I'll be honest. I couldn't decided if I should use a seon there at the end or a Tamu Kek. In one draft it was a Tamu Kek, and then I thought, seons are way more interesting, because they have volition. Tamu Kek is just a bone. You guys have read Dragonsteel [Prime], right? [...] Anyways it was Tamu Kek originally, and then it was a seon, then back to a Tamu Kek, and I released it as a seon.

Shardcast Interview (Jan. 23, 2021)

They are related to singer gemhearts in some way.

Quote

WeiryWriter

At Emerald City Comic Con earlier this year, you stated that Singer gemhearts are a "milky white" color, and looked like bone/bone marrow. You also said they were related to something in Dragonsteel. Having read the sample chapters of The Liar of Partinel a while back, I couldn't help but be reminded of the skullmoss, which is a bone-white color. Are the singer gemhearts related to the fainlife in any meaningful or important way?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah they are very similar to Tamu Keks.

Footnote: This is referencing this exchange.
BookCon 2018 (June 1, 2018)

They are canon in a way similar to how they are in Dragonsteel Prime.

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

I'll release [Dragonsteel Prime] for the Words of Radiance Kickstarter. [...] Basically there's not a whole lot that's canon in that anymore. The Sho Del are, and the dragons are, and the Tamu Keks are. [...]

Shardcast Interview (Jan. 23, 2021)

---

Dragonsteel Prime (public sample chapters):

Tamu Keks are Sho Del bones that give off pulses of power to Jerick's magic senses. Long, thin, pointed at both ends. Seems to be one per Sho Del?

Quote

Dent replied, reaching to put the skeleton in the sack. The first bone his hand fell on, however was a long, thin one that came to a point at both tips.

“Wait,” Jerick said, feeling a coldness about him. Though he was not looking [REDACTED], he could sense the pulses of energy coming from the bone. The Tamu Kek. “I’ve warned you about that bone, Dente. Leave it behind, but take the rest.”

Sho Del bones can be used by "Horwatchers" to perform magic. Presumably, this is referring to Tamu Keks, rather than all the bones?

Quote

Part of him was incredibly disturbed by what had just happened. He had only barely discovered [REDACTED], still uncertain of whether to accept it as good or evil, when the events at the palace forced him to leave. The part of him that had grown up listening to the Legends, the part trained by the superstitions of the villagers, told him that he didn’t want such power. Magic was of the Sho Del, the monsters he was fighting. Even Horwatchers could only use it if they had access to Sho Del bones.

Sho Del can communicate with their minds, and send illusions similarly. With the reveal that Tamu Keks can be used to communicate similarly to seons, this is likely tied to their Tamu Kek?

Quote

“When the Sho Del use their minds to speak with one another, they are speaking Cognitive to Cognitive. When they send illusions to your warriors, they are doing the same thing.”

Edited February 2, 2021 by LewsTherinTelescope
formatting

[Frustration he/him]

Is the [Redacted] in the WoB, or is it something you did?

[LewsTherinTelescope]

1 minute ago, Frustration said:

Is the [Redacted] in the WoB, or is it something you did?

Included in the sample chapters. Most details about Jerick's powers are redacted. [SA:DS]

Spoiler

Which, with Brandon's reveal that "the primary story of Dragonsteel [...] was about several people who unwittingly become Dawnshards", makes a lot more sense now than it did before.

[Quantus he/him]

Sounds suspiciously like a Sho Del equivalent of a Singer's Gemheart.  

[LewsTherinTelescope]

Just now, Quantus said:

Sounds suspiciously like a Sho Del equivalent of a Singer's Gemheart.  

That's what the BookCon WoB suggests, yeah.

[Frustration he/him]

If they are like gemhearts which can contain spren, and it is like a Seon, which is a spren.....

Is there a cognitive entity that lives inside the Tamu kek?

Edited February 2, 2021 by Frustration

[Quantus he/him]

14 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

That's what the BookCon WoB suggests, yeah.

 

12 minutes ago, Frustration said:

If they are like gemhearts which can contain spren, and it is like a Seon, which is a spren.....

Is there a cognitive entity that lives inside the Tamu kek?

Sorry, hit post on a half-finished thought.  Singer gemhearts are innately a trans-realmic phenomena, they are formed from direct leakage in Investiture from the Spiritual Realm.  I suspect that Tamu Keks have a similar trans-realmic thing going on.  I dont think they are literally functional geamhearts that can store investiture and Cognitive Entities, etc. but I could see the reason they would have narratively worked instead of the Seon in RoW being because they naturally pierce realms to some extent. But where Gemhearts leak from the Spiritual, perhaps Tamu Keks naturally pierce into the Cognitive (which is what lets them communicate mind-to-mind via "the Cognitive", in theory).

Edited February 2, 2021 by Quantus

[Eternal Khol he/him]

The Horwatchers also lit candles by waving a Tamu Kek over it, and could sense someone even though they were invisible.(not sure if that stayed canon)

the Tamu Kek's had the eponymous Dragonsteel inside them, which is part of the "magic" aspect

Edited February 2, 2021 by Eternal Khol

[LewsTherinTelescope]

37 minutes ago, Quantus said:

perhaps Tamu Keks naturally pierce into the Cognitive (which is what lets them communicate mind-to-mind via "the Cognitive", in theory).

I suspect this may have changed a bit from what the quote indicates, honestly, as instantaneous communication feels much more like a Spiritual-based power under our current understanding of Realmatics, with its time-and-spacelessness. But that's just speculation on my part.

[Quantus he/him]

6 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

I suspect this may have changed a bit from what the quote indicates, honestly, as instantaneous communication feels much more like a Spiritual-based power under our current understanding of Realmatics, with its time-and-spacelessness. But that's just speculation on my part.

Fair point.  Though as a counter-point the difference between very fast through the Cognitive (like summoning a shardblade) and true instant communication might only become evident between planets.  

 

Quote

 

Questioner

Is there any effect on a Shardblade if the deadeye is really far away from where the Blade is?

Brandon Sanderson

Define really.

Questioner

The one that's trapped on the ship. Let's say they're taking him to the far side of Shadesmar, but the dude that owns that Blade lives in...

Brandon Sanderson

We will deal with that in the books. There is an effect, but that's not enough of an effect.

Overlord Jebus

Considering no one says that their Shardblade is acting weird in two and a half thousand years.

Brandon Sanderson

That happens all the time in Shadesmar. If you were able to get it off the planet, it would have an effect.

Questioner

If you as the owner of the Shardblade were offworld and you tried to summon it, that would be the effect?

Brandon Sanderson

Either way. But you can't take spren off-world. I mean, you can, but you can't really. Really all that I have in the notes for it to do right now, is to add slightly more time. So you're like, "That's weird that felt like not ten heartbeats, it felt like twelve." But it's like, you're on another planet, then it's suddenly speed of light type stuff. So suddenly it's like, "This is taking three years instead. That's a pretty big deal!"

...So I've got a few weird speed of light things mixed into the cosmere, and that's one of them.

Emerald City Comic Con 2018 (March 1, 2018)

 

 

[Eternal Khol he/him]

12 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

I suspect this may have changed a bit from what the quote indicates, honestly, as instantaneous communication feels much more like a Spiritual-based power under our current understanding of Realmatics, with its time-and-spacelessness. But that's just speculation on my part.

The way i view it(with our very limited understanding) is both of the ShoDel would be connected to each of tips of a metaphorical Horseshoe(which, the horseshoe, is in the cognitive realm) while the arch of the horseshoe(what connects the two tips, is in the spiritual realm.)

heavily cognitive with spiritual feelers.

Examine my bad snapchat diagram drawing if you didnt get what i meant lol

[LewsTherinTelescope]

7 minutes ago, Quantus said:

Though as a counter-point the difference between very fast through the Cognitive (like summoning a shardblade) and true instant communication might only become evident between planets.  

True enough.

7 minutes ago, Eternal Khol said:

The way i view it(with our very limited understanding) is both of the ShoDel would be connected to each of tips of a metaphorical Horseshoe(which, the horseshoe, is in the cognitive realm) while the arch of the horseshoe(what connects the two tips, is in the spiritual realm.)

Suppose that makes sense as well. Perhaps I'm taking what Frost is saying a bit too directly, and he's skimming over the fact it involves the Spiritual because Jerick's still learning the basics of the explanation, lol.

[Quantus he/him]

4 minutes ago, Eternal Khol said:

The way i view it(with our very limited understanding) is both of the ShoDel would be connected to each of tips of a metaphorical Horseshoe(which, the horseshoe, is in the cognitive realm) while the arch of the horseshoe(what connects the two tips, is in the spiritual realm.)

heavily cognitive with spiritual feelers.

Examine my bad snapchat diagram drawing if you didnt get what i meant lol

Agreed in general, though I think it's equally likely that the horse shoe dips downward into the Physical (more along the lines of Ferchemy), given the fact that the Tamu Keks work as objects independent from their original owner. So the Tamu Keks act as the bridge between the Cognitive and Physical, implying that the actual Investiture "circuit" is through the Physicals Realm (and by extension should be sharply limited by distance).  

[Honorless he/him]

Is there any mention, or any possibility of figuring it out from context clues, exactly where in the skeletal structure of the Sho Del the Tamu Keks are located? What they look like? Do they resemble Gemhearts in physical appearance?

Edited February 3, 2021 by Honorless

[LewsTherinTelescope]

9 minutes ago, Honorless said:

Is there any mention, or any possibility of figuring it out from context clues, exactly where in the skeletal structure of the Sho Del the Tamu Keks are located?

Don't believe so, unfortunately. Bit more context:

Quote

Jerick hurried over to where a small group of bridgemen stood around a particular corpse. It had long since lost its flesh, but the bones were draped with tattered remnants of clothing that had obviously not been human. The Sho Del wore armor that was made of hundreds of tiny steel rings, a method of construction that still baffled Yolish smiths, though he had heard the Tzends could duplicate it. The small rings rusted easily, leaving the metal unusable. The bones, however, were a different matter.

“Dente, you have that sack?” Jerick asked.

“Yes, sir,” the tall man replied, holding out a sack bearing a stalk of grain, which marked it as food supplies.

“Good, you know what to do.”

“Yes sir, Dent replied, reaching to put the skeleton in the sack. The first bone his hand fell on, however was a long, thin one that came to a point at both tips.

“Wait,” Jerick said, feeling a coldness about him. Though he was not looking [REDACTED], he could sense the pulses of energy coming from the bone. The Tamu Kek. “I’ve warned you about that bone, Dente. Leave it behind, but take the rest.”

“Yes, sir,” Dente said with a shrug.

[Eternal Khol he/him]

5 hours ago, Honorless said:

Is there any mention, or any possibility of figuring it out from context clues, exactly where in the skeletal structure of the Sho Del the Tamu Keks are located? What they look like? Do they resemble Gemhearts in physical appearance?

I dont know if its just me, but ive been thinking of them as collar/rib bones

[Weltall]

I mean, it's one bone and we know that you have to look closely at the skeletons to distinguish humans and Sho Del so it's easier to look at their armor.

Quote

He had been human, Jerick guessed—not from the bones themselves, for the two races had surprisingly similar skeletons, but from the armor. It had been bronze.

So my guess is that it's in the neck or center of the ribcage where it can sort of hide among the rest of the bones, rather than sticking out somewhere really obvious.

On 2/2/2021 at 9:52 AM, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Included in the sample chapters. Most details about Jerick's powers are redacted. [SA:DS]

  Reveal hidden contents

Which, with Brandon's reveal that "the primary story of Dragonsteel [...] was about several people who unwittingly become Dawnshards", makes a lot more sense now than it did before.

Good call on some of the redactions probably having something to do with that, though I'm pretty sure that quite a few of them are also Brandon wanting for whatever reason to avoid name-dropping microkinesis just yet, even though we know from WoBs that it was a magic system in Dragonsteel Prime and fits with what Jerick is doing some of the time.

Edited February 3, 2021 by Weltall

[LewsTherinTelescope]

9 minutes ago, Weltall said:

Good call on some of the redactions probably having something to do with that, though I'm pretty sure that a lot of them are also Brandon wanting for whatever reason to avoid name-dropping microkinesis just yet, even though we know from WoBs that it was a magic system in Dragonsteel Prime and fits with what Jerick is doing.

Oh for sure, some of them make the most sense if it's literally just the word "microkinesis" or something, lol. But then there's ones like this:

Quote

Jerick shifted visions, [REDACTED]. This had better work, he thought as the spear plunged toward his chest. He commanded the spear to [REDACTED], as he once had the arrow, months ago. Nothing happened.

Go! Jerick ordered, without result. [REDACTED]! his mind wailed ineffectually. Then, just before the spear hit him, he felt something else. It was like a force, a force that surrounded him, similar to the force that held all of the [REDACTED]. He couldn’t see it, not even [REDACTED], but he could feel that it wanted to leave him. It wanted to escape into the ground. A lesser force was also pulling it toward the Sho Del warrior—or rather, Jerick realized, not the Sho Del, but his armor.

Go there! Jerick thought, indicating the armor. Not knowing quite how he did so, Jerick released the force.

There was an explosive clap and a flash of light so bright, that Jerick screamed in pain. Then there was a thump beside him. He shook his head, trying to clear the bright streak from his eyes. From the edges of his vision, Jerick could make out the form of the Sho Del warrior, dead on the ground. Its breastplate was charred and black, and the smell of burnt flesh was heavy in the air.

 

Spoiler

Knowing now that Dragonsteel Prime was about people becoming Dawnshards, I feel like this could be him unleashing the Command of a Dawnshard in a small way.

[Weltall]

Yeah, agreed that there's probably some of that at play too and not just microkinesis.

Oh, one other WoB that's tangentially related and which I didn't piece together until just now, but it's a RAFO so it doesn't really tell us anything.

Quote

FirstSelector

Here's a Dragonsteel question. If I were to wave Leras' knife over a candle, would it light?

Brandon Sanderson

...We'll RAFO that.

Oathbringer San Francisco signing (Nov. 15, 2017)

 

[LewsTherinTelescope]

2 minutes ago, Weltall said:

Yeah, agreed that there's probably some of that at play too and not just microkinesis.

Oh, one other WoB that's tangentially related and which I didn't piece together until just now, but it's a RAFO so it doesn't really tell us anything.

 

That WoB is so odd without this context, lol.

[Eternal Khol he/him]

48 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Go! Jerick ordered, without result. [REDACTED]! his mind wailed ineffectually. Then, just before the spear hit him, he felt something else. It was like a force, a force that surrounded him, similar to the force that held all of the [REDACTED]. He couldn’t see it, not even [REDACTED], but he could feel that it wanted to leave him. It wanted to escape into the ground. A lesser force was also pulling it toward the Sho Del warrior—or rather, Jerick realized, not the Sho Del, but his armor.

Go there! Jerick thought, indicating the armor. Not knowing quite how he did so, Jerick released the force.

There was an explosive clap and a flash of light so bright, that Jerick screamed in pain. Then there was a thump beside him. He shook his head, trying to clear the bright streak from his eyes. From the edges of his vision, Jerick could make out the form of the Sho Del warrior, dead on the ground. Its breastplate was charred and black, and the smell of burnt flesh was heavy in the air.

I definitely think some of the "redacted" words was the Command he held.

something along the lines of "change" or "destroy" seeing as how his microkinetic abilities were destructive.

 

it would fit really good in this sentence below:

Original sentence: "Go! Jerick ordered, without result. [REDACTED]! his mind wailed ineffectually."

New sentence: "Go! Jerick ordered, without result. CHANGE/DESTROY! his mind wailed ineffectually."

 

on a side note, i remember someone saying that one of the characters powers in Dragonsteel would be helpful for space travel or something like that. I wonder what power could that be.

none of the ones we know about really scream "space travel" 

we have 

microkinesis to grow/change things(hoid)

microkinesis to destroy/change things(jerick)

some light bending power(ryalla)

Tzai blows(tzai warriors)

tamu keks(everyone)

[LewsTherinTelescope]

1 hour ago, Eternal Khol said:

on a side note, i remember someone saying that one of the characters powers in Dragonsteel would be helpful for space travel or something like that. I wonder what power could that be.

Hmm, interesting. When it finally comes out in a few years, I'll have to keep an eye out for that 

Main thing I can think of is maybe there's some really smart people uses of photon control that I don't know enough to recognize. 

[Eternal Khol he/him]

24 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Hmm, interesting. When it finally comes out in a few years, I'll have to keep an eye out for that 

Main thing I can think of is maybe there's some really smart people uses of photon control that I don't know enough to recognize. 

I just remembered, apparently it was one of the Dawnshards that was supposed to be helpful towards space travel.

and brandon has said that the Dawnshards are relevant to space age cosmere, so maybe well find out eventually(if he hasnt changed that aspect)

[LewsTherinTelescope]

7 minutes ago, Eternal Khol said:

I just remembered, apparently it was one of the Dawnshards that was supposed to be helpful towards space travel.

and brandon has said that the Dawnshards are relevant to space age cosmere, so maybe well find out eventually(if he hasnt changed that aspect)

I imagine Dawnshards are useful for lots of things, so doesn't surprise me, lol

[+Oltux72 he/him]

On 2.2.2021 at 10:07 PM, LewsTherinTelescope said:

I suspect this may have changed a bit from what the quote indicates, honestly, as instantaneous communication feels much more like a Spiritual-based power under our current understanding of Realmatics, with its time-and-spacelessness. But that's just speculation on my part.

Seons can do it and Seons are most likely cognitive entities.

On 3.2.2021 at 4:21 PM, Honorless said:

Is there any mention, or any possibility of figuring it out from context clues, exactly where in the skeletal structure of the Sho Del the Tamu Keks are located? What they look like? Do they resemble Gemhearts in physical appearance?

Well, you may extrapolate from Singers, which have it fused to their sternum and from there only being one such bone per Sho Del that it is their equivalent of a sternum. No other bone in a mammalian body is unpaired and long and pointy. That it appears in all Sho Del rules out that it is a baculum, which would also fit the criteria.