The Different Lights

[RShara she/her]

So Stormlight plus Lifelight = Towerlight. Stormlight+Voidlight=Warlight. What would Lifelight+Voidlight create?

We were throwing this around on Discord, and my thought was that it could be Passionlight. Wouldn't it be beautiful and ironic if Odium's biggest enemy on Roshar was exactly what was needed to finally and truly become Passion?

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

45 minutes ago, RShara said:

So Stormlight plus Lifelight = Towerlight. Stormlight+Voidlight=Warlight. What would Lifelight+Voidlight create?

We were throwing this around on Discord, and my thought was that it could be Passionlight. Wouldn't it be beautiful and ironic if Odium's biggest enemy on Roshar was exactly what was needed to finally and truly become Passion?

I’m not sure ‘enemy’ is the right word here...

What do all three become? War + Passion + Science? This... sounds dangerous...

[Jess]

When I think of Odium+Cultivation I think of infections, invasive species, cancer... basically uncontrolled spread to the point that it harms the world around it. "Plaguelight" maybe?

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

10 minutes ago, Jess said:

When I think of Odium+Cultivation I think of infections, invasive species, cancer... basically uncontrolled spread to the point that it harms the world around it. "Plaguelight" maybe?

Hatred + Cultivation... Darwinian Evolution? Survival of the fittest...

[Inquisitor #5]

Rather than evolution in that sense which just happens I'd see the combination of Odium and Cultivation as selective breeding, if thinking along those lines.

I'd be even more inclined to call the combined light Armslight (as in weapons, not as in appendages), it feels like iterative war-profiteering would fulfil both Intents and push towards a continuing cycle of vengance, cultivating hatred if you will.

 

¤_¤

[+Oltux72 he/him]

2 hours ago, Inquisitor #5 said:

Rather than evolution in that sense which just happens I'd see the combination of Odium and Cultivation as selective breeding, if thinking along those lines.

Cultivation already is selective breeding. She is Cultivation, not Nature or Evolution. She does interfere. If there is a Shard of evolution, it would be Harmony.

4 hours ago, RShara said:

So Stormlight plus Lifelight = Towerlight. Stormlight+Voidlight=Warlight. What would Lifelight+Voidlight create?

We were throwing this around on Discord, and my thought was that it could be Passionlight. Wouldn't it be beautiful and ironic if Odium's biggest enemy on Roshar was exactly what was needed to finally and truly become Passion?

Did anybody ask what happens if you combine a normal light and an anti-light?

Voidlight + anti-Lifelight -> Suicidelight? Exterminationlight?

Also, does this answer how a combined Shard would be?

[Inquisitor #5]

1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

Cultivation already is selective breeding. She is Cultivation, not Nature or Evolution. She does interfere. If there is a Shard of evolution, it would be Harmony.

Fair enough, maybe I didn't think that through, not sure I agree that Harmony is the closest to evolution, but I see the point.

1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

Also, does this answer how a combined Shard would be?

I'd say that this is possible but not guaranteed, I wouldn't have thought one Vessel for Honor and Odium would make War, I rather see the Rythm of War arising out of the structure of the component rhythms, when harmonised they are reflective of the nature of war, order in the grand plan, chaos on the field of battle, yet order in the formations. Ordered chaos, containing order, containing chaos, etc.

Interestingly, the existence of anti-lights implies the possibility of anti-shards as well.

 

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Edited November 20, 2020 by Inquisitor #5

[+Oltux72 he/him]

33 minutes ago, Inquisitor #5 said:

Fair enough, maybe I didn't think that through, not sure I agree that Harmony is the closest to evolution, but I see the point.

We are looking at human activities. Evolution isn't. It is just what happens, if you do nothing. Hence HArmony.

33 minutes ago, Inquisitor #5 said:

I'd say that this is possible but not guaranteed, I wouldn't have thought one Vessel for Honor and Odium would make War,

Structured and ordered aggression. It may not be a necessary result, but it can be easily explained and justified.

33 minutes ago, Inquisitor #5 said:

I rather see the Rythm of War arising out of the structure of the component rhythms, when harmonised they are reflective of the nature of war, order in the grand plan, chaos on the field of battle, yet order in the formations. Ordered chaos, containing order, containing chaos, etc.

Odium is not chaos. It is hatred.

6 hours ago, RShara said:

So Stormlight plus Lifelight = Towerlight. Stormlight+Voidlight=Warlight. What would Lifelight+Voidlight create?

Life out of hatred and aggression. Developmentlight, Colonialisationlight, Clearinglight, Agriculturelight, Slavelight. Basically more fields or people by the sword. Passion lacks the element of procreation which Lifelights generates. And this looks like the nice interpretation.

 

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

9 hours ago, Inquisitor #5 said:

Rather than evolution in that sense which just happens I'd see the combination of Odium and Cultivation as selective breeding, if thinking along those lines.

I'd be even more inclined to call the combined light Armslight (as in weapons, not as in appendages), it feels like iterative war-profiteering would fulfil both Intents and push towards a continuing cycle of vengance, cultivating hatred if you will.

 

¤_¤

Not regular evolution, which is already part of Cultivation. Darwinian social evolution. That’s what I meant; I’m tired and used the wrong term.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Darwinism

[Subvisual Haze]

Anger+Planning/Growth = Vengeance-light.  The perfect light for concocting elaborate schemes to crush and humiliate your enemies.

[Seloun]

Odium + Cultivation = Cancer.

[Seloun]

Actually, this appears to be answered in the book upon closer examination:

Quote

Venli searched for something else. The tone of Cultivation. Odium’s song could suffuse her, fueling her powers and enflaming her emotions, but that tone … that tone had belonged to her people long before he’d arrived. While she searched for it, she listened to her mother’s songs in her mind. Like chains, spiked into the stone so they’d remain strong during storms, they reached backward through time. Through generations.

To her people, leaving the battlefield. Walking away rather than continuing to squabble over the same ground over and over. They hadn’t merely rejected the singer gods, they’d rejected the conflict. Holding to family, singing to Love despite their dull forms, they’d left the war and gone a new way.

The tone snapped into her mind, Cultivation and Odium mixing into a harmony, and it thrummed through Venli. She opened her eyes as power spread from her through the stones. They began to shake and vibrate to the sound of her rhythm, liquid, forming peaks and valleys in time with the music. The floor, ceiling, and walls before her rippled, and a trail of people formed from the stone. Moving, alive again, as they strode away from pain, and war, and killing.

Freedom. The stones whispered to her of freedom. Rock seemed so stable, so unchangeable, but if you saw it on the timescale of spren, it was always changing. Deliberately. Over centuries. She had never known her ancestors, but she knew their songs. She could sing those and imitate their courage. Their love. Their wisdom.

Sanderson, Brandon. Rhythm of War (The Stormlight Archive) . Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

(emphasis mine)

So, Freedomlight or...Bravelight?

[signspace13 he/him]

Venli said she heard the combined tone of Odium and Cultivation when she was letting the stone show her the story of the first listeners, so perhaps Odium(passion)+cultivation could be FreeLight?

[Argent Solbright]

Vengeance is my first thought, but on second thought that seems already covered by Odium itself well enough.

Quotes from book above suggest freedom ... but that sounds odd. How does hatred and cultivation yield freedom?

I would have thought more something along Plotting or Scheming .... which is interestingly, descriptor that would match with Taravangian. Hmm.

Another thought, maybe ... Salvation? Something about working or developing means (cultivation) from something you hate/do not desire (odium) ...

Edited November 21, 2020 by Argent Solbright

[2xMachina]

Hmm, I think,

Odium is Destroy with Passion, not necessarily Hatred. Odium has power to destroy emotions as well (with Moash's thing), and is one of the reason he is related to Void.

But when you FEEL, and your power is to destroy, you become Odium.

 

Maybe Cultivation is Create? Counteract Destroy wavelenght, leaving you with Passion and something else, to give feeling of Freedom

[Karger he/him]

I say Wildlight personally.  I don't think Cultivation is an emotional shard.  However Honor is often associated with civilization and his is the light lacking here.  Wild can mean both emotion and growth.

Edited November 22, 2020 by Karger

[theTruthshaper]

I don't think mixing 2 shards (or their investitures) necessarily becomes something of both. The best example is Ruin and Preservation became Harmony. Also, Cultivation and Honor become Science, which also feels extremely wrong to me.

[StanLemon]

I think if Passionlight would be Odium+Mercy(or Devotion possibly) as Odium seems to represent negative passions and the other as positive passions

19 minutes ago, The_Truthwatcher said:

I don't think mixing 2 shards (or their investitures) necessarily becomes something of both. The best example is Ruin and Preservation became Harmony. Also, Cultivation and Honor become Science, which also feels extremely wrong to me.

I think Harmony is more telling of the nature Investiture than Intents. As we now know, hybrid Investiture is the harmonizing of different rhythms.

[Karger he/him]

22 minutes ago, The_Truthwatcher said:

I don't think mixing 2 shards (or their investitures) necessarily becomes something of both. The best example is Ruin and Preservation became Harmony. Also, Cultivation and Honor become Science, which also feels extremely wrong to me.

I think society would be closer.

Edited November 22, 2020 by Karger

[Necessary Eagle she/her]

On 11/20/2020 at 6:15 AM, Oltux72 said:

Did anybody ask what happens if you combine a normal light and an anti-light?

Voidlight + anti-Lifelight -> Suicidelight? Exterminationlight?

I think you call it Run, It's Gonna <BOOM>

[teknopathetic he/him]

Tower Light light isnt of the Tower so much as it is made by the tower. Could we rename Tower Light as Science Light? Navani calls it Science when she melds the tones, so that does seem valid. We could even say Discovery light or something..

Tower light is not not very ... descriptive. If the tower fell, that light could still exist, you know? 

 

Edited November 23, 2020 by teknopathetic

[StanLemon]

2 hours ago, teknopathetic said:

Tower Light light isnt of the Tower so much as it is made by the tower. Could we rename Tower Light as Science Light? Navani calls it Science when she melds the tones, so that does seem valid. We could even say Discovery light or something..

Tower light is not not very ... descriptive. If the tower fell, that light could still exist, you know? 

 

By that logic we would need to rename Stormlight and Voidlight.

[Seloun]

2 hours ago, teknopathetic said:

Tower Light light isnt of the Tower so much as it is made by the tower. Could we rename Tower Light as Science Light? Navani calls it Science when she melds the tones, so that does seem valid. We could even say Discovery light or something..

Tower light is not not very ... descriptive. If the tower fell, that light could still exist, you know? 

 

Brightlight (Britelight?)

[teknopathetic he/him]

1 hour ago, StanLemon said:

By that logic we would need to rename Stormlight and Voidlight.

Those terms for pure tonal light are fossilized now. However, "Towerlight," like War Light, is newer and could follow different naming conventions. Towerlight is not something that has to stick considering we now know its tone and meaning are derived from science and collaboration. 

Edited November 23, 2020 by teknopathetic

[Jess]

22 hours ago, Karger said:

22 hours ago, The_Truthwatcher said:

I don't think mixing 2 shards (or their investitures) necessarily becomes something of both. The best example is Ruin and Preservation became Harmony. Also, Cultivation and Honor become Science, which also feels extremely wrong to me.

I think society would be closer.

Yeah, I suspect Navani interpreting Honor + Cultivation as "Science" is largely a reflection of her own interests/worldview, and that Science may just be one aspect of Towerlight's nature.