RoW Chapter 14 Discussion

[Jofwu]

Here's a discussion thread on RoW Chapter 14 You can read it here: https://www.tor.com/2020/10/06/read-rhythm-of-war-by-brandon-sanderson-chapter-fourteen/

A new chapter will go live every Tuesday at 9am Eastern.

[Pattern]

The Nine - soulcast to stone and living on voidlight. Why does that bring to my mind ten statues of Heralds - one destroyed?

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“They imprisoned some of the Unmade in these, Leshwi,” Raboniel said. “How close do you think they are to discovering they could do the same for us? Can you imagine it? Forever imprisoned in a gemstone, locked away, able to think but unable to ever break free?”

I wonder why nobody had this idea before. Might be a bit less destructive than cutting the Fused with Nightblood...

Quote

“Of course not,” Leshwi said. “Last time, her recklessness nearly cost us everything. The Nine favor her boldness; they feel the weight of time. Yet boldness can be one step from foolishness. So we must prevent a catastrophe. This land is for the ordinary singers to inherit. I will not leave it desolate simply to prove we can murder better than our enemies.”

Leshwi really should have a talk with Kaladin. I see great potential there.

And on a final note: I hope Vyre/Moash will accompany the raid to Urithiru to finally be get rid of. I have a scene with Jasnah and three would-be murderers in mind...

[Karger]

So Leshwi is not totally crazy but most of everyone else is.  Venli is finally going to get some tutoring even if the tutor is completely nuts.  Why do they imprison their government?

[Innovation]

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Give me the opportunity to test some... theories I have developed.

Raboniel is a Sharder?

And my theory about the Sibling was correct!

Edited October 6, 2020 by Innovation

[Inky]

1 minute ago, Karger said:

Why do they imprison their government?

It sounds like they imprison themselves 

[Agent34]

I'm loving Venli's chapters. 

RIP her dream but hey at least she might get a teacher?

No new spren this chapter but a new brand and a name for one we met before. Plus Odium's forces have access to soulcasting but no indication of whether it's by fabrial or Fused.

[Karger]

Just now, Inky said:

It sounds like they imprison themselves 

It seems to be a part of singer government.  Imagine if the guy sitting next to you picks his nose.  We have no idea how long you might be stuck here.

[Honorless]

1) Why would Logicspren be important to Artifabrians?

2) A new kind of Fused! One that has Leshwi worried. The groups awaken at different times, they hibernate.

3) Another technically not new kind of Fused. These must be the Fused that can alter their carapace, ah yes carapace helmet. These seem to be the ones that were described as tall with powerful physiques back in OB. "Those Ones of Alteration. Though all Fused were trained as warriors, many had other skills. Some were engineers, scientists, architects" ones corresponding to Willshapers perhaps? Aha, they built the Singer structures. 

4) we all have a little selfishness inside us, Venli. Not all of us can be the noble hero protagonist

5) Nine Fused leaders, this number again; entombed within the pillars, this reminds me of Aether of Night a bit, as well as the First Generation of Kandra.

6) Avendla, Land of the Second Advance, but the chapter seems to be indicating that this is an old name, not a new one given after Alethkar was conquered

7.1 + 7.2) Those Ones of Husks, "Enormous, with jagged carapace and deep red hair, the being wore only a simple black wrap for clothing. Or… was his hair the clothing? It seemed to meld with the wrap", one of them is called the Pursuer and was entrusted with the Suppressor, these must be the teleporters. Heh, so proud, but nope, a mere human did indeed defeat you. The suppressor might not work post 4th Oath, that's good news. My, this guy's gonna be trouble, it seems...

8) so the Fused kept returning till the Heralds returned back then too, that actually makes a lot of sense since that's the point of the Oathpact.

9) hmm... Am I reading too much into this. Leshwi blocked the Pursuer who wanted to hunt Kaladin. She really did seem to be teaching him from what he said back then during the fight... Oh look, Venli agrees with my interpretation

10+) Raboniel, Lady of Wishes, hmm, interesting... A new villainess approaches! She invaded the Tower before, she's a scholar! Ah, congrats to those who predicted that the Suppressor fabrial came from Urithiru/same mechanism that Urithiru uses against the Unmade, Fused and Thunderclast and whatever else from Odium's forces. She too calls the Sibling a Deadeye, further strengthening the argument that the Sibling was the Godspren Bonded during the Recreance; Navani and the Coalition as we've already been told, believe the same. Dalinar and Jasnah might be on their Fourth Oath as far as they know, though Dalinar is on his third. The Unmade pushed through the suppression, just referring to the weakened Tower invaded by Re-Shephir or something that resulted in the Sibling withdrawing back during the False Desolation?

11) “If you forget why you are fighting, then victory itself becomes the goal. The longer we fight, the more detached we become. Both from our own minds, and from our original Passions.” Leshwi understands this, there is hope yet that some others might as well.

12) she wants to study and corrupt the heart of the Sibling. Is this mad scientist be the main antagonist of this book? The blurb did talk about secrets of the Tower and a weapons race

13) Dammit, Taravangian

14) pitiful shadows? What kind of monsters were the ancient Radiants then? Squeeeeee!

15) "These creatures were fraying, surrendering their minds—their will and very individuality offered up to Odium on the altar of eternal war. Perhaps the humans were new to their abilities, untested, but the Fused were old axes, chipped and weathered. They would take great risks, after so many rebirths, to be finished at last." Feels bad, man. Also, have I mentioned how it's quite fitting that the Fused themselves also have such a rigid caste system much like the Vorin

16) is Vyre high-ranking among Odium's forces? He does have an Honorblade... Seems to have recovered since we last saw him suicide baiting Kaladin and getting blitzed by Renarin

17) Leshwi is a simple girl. If you kill her, she likes you. So she likes Kaladin. She wants to capture him & enslave/endoctrinate him. What is wrong with these people?! 

18) “They imprisoned some of the Unmade in these, Leshwi,” Raboniel said. “How close do you think they are to discovering they could do the same for us? Can you imagine it? Forever imprisoned in a gemstone, locked away, able to think but unable to ever break free?” um... huh

Leshwi hummed to Panic, a pained rhythm with unfinished measures and chopped-up beats.

“One way or another,” Raboniel said, “this is the final Return. The humans will soon discover how to imprison us. If not, well, the best of us who remain are but a few steps from madness. We must find a solution to this war.”

This makes me really hopeful on the chances of peace, they're tired. The thing with Odium's forces is that they gave off the impression of being immortal and tireless but they're getting tired

19) I almost forgot that Venli was the direct mouthpiece of Odium back in OB, that made her quite the catch as a Voice apparently. Ah, she's gonna be in the infiltration team. Huh, Leshwi really is quite sharp even as others are getting worn down. She still wants for the Singers to have Roshar nor just win the eternal war or kill all humans, she hasn't lost sight of what's important yet.

Edited October 6, 2020 by Honorless

[Innovation]

Do logicspren assist in making Fabrials somehow? 

[Ookla the Shadowed]

I really like the Venli chapters so far. 

Are there only nine forms of fused?

Also, the fused seem to think that the sibling is dead, not sleeping. Interesting.

8 minutes ago, Karger said:

Why do they imprison their government?

Maybe to show power, or something along those line? Probably some political reason.

3 minutes ago, Innovation said:

Do logicspren assist in making Fabrials somehow? 

I would guess so. Maybe they... I don't know. Soulcasters don't have spren, right? If they do then maybe logicspren have something to do with them?

Edited October 6, 2020 by Experience

[Nathrangking]

15 minutes ago, Innovation said:

Raboniel is a Sharder?

Yes!!! 

Urithiru is about to be attacked dear me. The sibling is coming to the forefront!! Raboniel vs Jasnah rap battle begin!!! Leshwi, you might be open to reason after all hmm... Moash you trouble maker be silent!  Stoneward Fused are in the building!! Fractures in the ranks indeed. Leshwi you are devious will you turn to team Radiant? So much fascinating Singer politicking!! How will they get Dalinar and Jasnah away? Is the pillar the sibling's gem heart? Nearly a deadeye hmm... If you experiment on it Raboniel how exactly do you think that it will help you? Navani it is time for you to bond the sibling! I have spoken!! Mad scientist with a super bug, how appropriate. New information about the fused rebirth cycle!! The pursuer is a loose cannon. Zahel please end him. They did attack Urithiru in the past year interesting!! Venli meet Lift!!!

Edited October 6, 2020 by Nathrangking

[Turtle]

6 minutes ago, Innovation said:

Do logicspren assist in making Fabrials somehow? 

I think that they are the spren that either make the surge fabrials possible and/or are the cousins to the else calling spren.

[Cheat Commando]

Ah! Brandon, why do you torture me so? You can't just say, "Oh, logicspren are important," and expect me to be okay waiting another week to find out why!!

Crazy idea: logicspren can be used in tiny fabrials linked together to make logic gates like those in a circuit board. (AND, OR, XOR)

Hooray for being a double agent!

I wonder who will be kidnapped by Venli... What if it's Lift? 

Trapping the Fused in gemstones sounds like a good idea to me. Trap them all and put them in a safe and throw it in the ocean. Hope they figure out how.

I didn't really like Leshwi until this chapter. 

Chills went up my spine when Raboniel announced her plot to invert Urithiru

Edited October 6, 2020 by Cheat Commando
Added content to avoid double posting

[Innovation]

3 minutes ago, Cheat Commando said:

Crazy idea: logicspren can be used in tiny fabrials linked together to make logic gates like those in a circuit board. (AND, OR, XOR)

Crazy? No, this is brilliant!

Edited October 6, 2020 by Innovation

[Nathrangking]

2 minutes ago, Cheat Commando said:

I wonder who will be kidnapped by Venli... What if it's Lift? 

As I noted in my comment I hope so!!!

[Ciridae]

I think this may have been my favorite chapter so far, I love that we get to see exactly what team Odium is planning. Exciting to hear about their plans for the Sibling, and it looks like we have a pretty great team of villians already assembled. Lezian and Raboniel are pretty scary, and I bet Vyre is going to tag along as a way to deal with Kal. Brandon is doing a great job of making the Fused scary, and making them individuals and not just random surgebinders for the Radiants to kill. I love the concept that each Fused has their own history, lore and traditions. 

Interesting that Raboniel was considered insane but seems to be fine now. Did she fake it? Did she get better? 

Those Ones of Alteration would probably be either the Transformation of Cohesion Fused, right? 

And I find myself liking Leshwi more and more with each chapter that features her. 

Edited October 6, 2020 by Ciridae

[theTruthshaper]

This was a nice chapter.

We have confirmation that the gemstone pillar is used to suppress the abilities of the Fused.

Also, why logicspren??

 

I think that Team Radiants are going to lose Urithiru and Taravangian is going to die

[Cheat Commando]

Just now, Nathrangking said:

As I noted in my comment I hope so!!!

My bad! Didn't see that!

[Agent34]

3 minutes ago, Ciridae said:

Those Ones of Alteration would probably be either the Transformation of Cohesion Fused, right? 

Probably Cohesion to alter the buildings.

[+Child of Hodor]

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Avendla was their name for Alethkar; Venli’s powers instantly knew the meaning of the word. Land of the Second Advance. 

Is this the new name for Alethkar or an old one? I'm thinking it's new, like the First Advance was humans taking over the planet, using Shinovar as their base then pushing outward. Now Alethkar is the base for the Singers to do their own Advance and take over? 

Edited October 6, 2020 by Child of Hodor

[+Harrycrapper]

9 minutes ago, Cheat Commando said:

Crazy idea: logicspren can be used in tiny fabrials linked together to make logic gates like those in a circuit board. (AND, OR, XOR)

Yea, I was thinking along the same lines. Logicspren will eventually lead Rosharans to fabrial based computers.

[+honorblades]

This chapter was crazy, it almost had a horror feel to it:

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 She felt near to comprehending—it was almost within reach—but her powers seemed to shy back from this song. As though… if she could understand, her mind would not be able to handle the meaning.

I’m glad to finally get confirmation that the Sibling is a deadeye, that’s a thought I’ve had for a while.  I suspect Adolin in the process of reviving Maya will be imperative to the Radiants helping the Sibling live again as well. Let’s just hope they can figure it out before it’s too late for Urithiru... 

[Govir]

Could it be that the logicspren provide the (capital I) Intent in the fabrial science, or are at least drawn to the Intent of the artifabrian? Combining the pieces isn't enough, but *wanting* to combine the pieces is essential. Perhaps by attracting logicspren, the artifabrian knows they are on the right path / knows that the fabrial is finished.

[agrabes]

Awesome chapter.  Learned a bit about how the desolations actually end - which makes a lot of sense.

I think we're seeing more and more hints that Leshwi genuinely does like Kaladin.  I don't think she has a secret plan to kill him.  She says she just wants to enslave him, basically, but I think even that is not exactly what she wants.

My prediction based on this chapter: Venli/Leshwi will capture our man Mr. Stormblessed in an early book assault on Urithiru.  The Fused will win and capture Urithiru, and the rest of the book will be spent in the battle/plans to retake it.

[+robardin]

Loved this chapter.

So, the Fused "slumber" between Returns but can still think and plan, so it is not senseless. And being trapped in a gem as a Cognitive Shadow... Is that what they did to Jezrien? (Reminds me of Steven Universe, too.)

Leshwi hummed to Exultation and to Abashment in this chapter - are those the "old rhythms" of Roshar or of Odium? -- FWIW, I did a text search and neither rhythm was ever mentioned until Venli "attuned Abashment" in Oathbringer when a Fused searched her bag for Timbre shortly after the battle at Thaylen Fields, interrupting her swearing the First Ideal. So probably of Odium. Darn, I was hoping for a hint that Leshwi was... Re-attuning.

Vyre holds the Honorblade in his lap at the conclave, no doubt to show off his identity and status. I mean, he can summon and dismiss it, as we saw in his little surrender scene with Kaladin at Hearthstone.