Vivenna and Vasher fighting on Roshar?

[beantheboy12]

Is Vivenna looking for Vasher or is she hunting Vasher? Vasher said he made a decision that he couldn’t sleep with it and that could have ticked Vivenna off. Or they got separated and just want to find each other 

[Weltall]

She claims to be hunting Nightblood and Vasher, in that order. Exactly what she intends to do with them once she finds them is anyone's guess. She refers to Vasher as an old friend and tells Adolin to warn him that she's looking for him the next time they meet, but she's still hunting him. Nightblood however is her primary objective.

Edited January 28, 2019 by Weltall

[+Invocation]

Pretty sure she's more looking for Nightblood than Vasher, since Nightblood is the bigger threat to the cosmere at large, with Vasher in second, like Weltall said.

[+robardin]

She also twice refers to Vasher as "a criminal" that she's "hunting", before clarifying somewhat that her "bounty" is a weapon (Nightblood) "and the one who brought it to your land".

She doesn't call it a "bounty" herself, but doesn't correct Kaladin's use of the term, either. So we don't really know if her search is a personal mission, or one commissioned by a higher authority that she's reporting to or is contracted by.

I found it interesting she didn't press harder on exactly where and when Kaladin had learned the same kata routine that he and Adolin shared with her, that she recognized as Vasher's. She just asked them to pass the word back to "the one who taught you that kata" that she was looking for him, rather than dig for something easy to reach like asking "so when and where did you guys learn these excercises?"  to find Kaladin had learned it within a few months ago from a swordmaster ardent at at the Kholin warcamp.

[Mage of Lirigon]

59 minutes ago, robardin said:

I found it interesting she didn't press harder on exactly where and when Kaladin had learned the same kata routine that he and Adolin shared with her, that she recognized as Vasher's. She just asked them to pass the word back to "the one who taught you that kata" that she was looking for him, rather than dig for something easy to reach like asking "so when and where did you guys learn these excercises?"  to find Kaladin had learned it within a few months ago from a swordmaster ardent at at the Kholin warcamp.

It would have been smarter to say nothing at all and simply fish for information rather than tip her hand. That tells me that she's not very gung ho about hunter Vasher down at least.

[Toaster Retribution]

I am interested in what Vivenna will do to Vasher when she finds him. Bring him back to someone (Yesteel? Susebron?) or kill him? 

[+Invocation]

19 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

I am interested in what Vivenna will do to Vasher when she finds him. Bring him back to someone (Yesteel? Susebron?) or kill him? 

Pretty sure that by the time this stuff is happening, Nightblood has taken place, and I'm pretty sure there was a strong hint that Yesteel won't be a threat one way or another after the events of that book.

[+robardin]

1 hour ago, Mage of Lirigon said:

It would have been smarter to say nothing at all and simply fish for information rather than tip her hand. That tells me that she's not very gung ho about hunter Vasher down at least.

Yes, exactly what I was thinking as well. She's "hunting" or "pursuing" Vasher for the "crime" of "Transporting A Biochromatic Type IV Entity Across State Lines For Immortal Purposes". Given her own actions in Warbreaker, she may or may not identify with the "criminal" side of the ledger, depending on whose law it is Vasher broke in doing so, but she definitely wants to get a hold of Nightblood - that's her real target, the "weapon I'm chasing, a Shardblade that bleeds black smoke", as she put it to Kaladin.

I think that would also strongly suggest she already knows that Vasher/Zahel doesn't have Nightblood in his possession any more, or she'd have tried to fish out his recent location from Kaladin and Adolin, which wouldn't have been very difficult. Instead, she continued on board the honospren ship to their CR stronghold of Lasting Integrity for "an exchange of information", about her "Shardblade" that had no dead spren and the whereabouts of Nightblood.

[Weltall]

If we assume for purposes of discussion that she's been commissioned by some authority to go fetch Nightblood, then her actions strongly suggest that her instructions were something like 'Go get Nigthblood, and bring Vasher back too if possible'. As noted she passes on an easy opportunity to fish for information on his whereabouts or to stick with them, knowing they'll eventually lead her to Vasher. Instead she tells them to warn him she's coming (she's confident they'll see Vasher before she finds him) which suggests that she can complete her job without having to confront him as long as he makes a token effort to avoid her.

If she's in this on her own, getting Kaladin and Adolin to warn Vasher also suggests that she's either trying to avoid having to confront him (for whatever reason) or that she doesn't want him to be surprised when she finally does locate him.

[ND103]

Here's something funny... Kal, Adolin, and Shallan all heard about nightblood from Azure (Viviena). And they all saw it in action at Thaylen city (or should have). Not one of them noticed it and remarked at it. Or had a moment of recognition. Or anything really. 

How come none of them mention it and you know... At least think about it to themselves? Or did I miss it?  Seems odd to me if they never remark on it. 

[RShara]

1 hour ago, ND103 said:

Here's something funny... Kal, Adolin, and Shallan all heard about nightblood from Azure (Viviena). And they all saw it in action at Thaylen city (or should have). Not one of them noticed it and remarked at it. Or had a moment of recognition. Or anything really. 

How come none of them mention it and you know... At least think about it to themselves? Or did I miss it?  Seems odd to me if they never remark on it. 

Szeth doesn't use Nightblood after the perp opens, if I remember right.

[TacticalShardSpork]

I think it’s possible that Brandon was playing with the assumptions we would make and that Vivenna isn’t actually hunting Vasher.

In OB chapter 108, she says that she’s hunting a sword (and gives enough description that it’s Nightblood) and the person who brought it to Roshar. In chapter 110, she asks our Rorsharan protagonists to warn Vasher she’s looking for him.

She was following the honorspren because they had noted Nightblood passing through. If she thought that Vasher was the last person to have him, then wouldn’t it have made more sense for her to prioritize finding Vasher over an obscure trail for Nightblood?

This is a large jump, but the next question is if she’s not hunting Vasher then who? I’d really like the irony if she was hunting Nale under valid laws. 

[+robardin]

38 minutes ago, TacticalShardSpork said:

She was following the honorspren because they had noted Nightblood passing through. If she thought that Vasher was the last person to have him, then wouldn’t it have made more sense for her to prioritize finding Vasher over an obscure trail for Nightblood?

This is a large jump, but the next question is if she’s not hunting Vasher then who? I’d really like the irony if she was hunting Nale under valid laws. 

Hmm. Per my earlier comment, I also think she already knows that Vasher no longer carries Nightblood.

But as for that being because Vasher was not, in fact, the criminal agent in question responsible for its transport to Roshar to begin with, and she knows this and maybe she's looking for him for help or something... I LIKE IT!

As for who it is, then, can Nale leave Roshar, as a Herald isn't he sort of a super Cognitive Shadow tied to the Rosharan system?

And the Nightwatcher strongly implies she can give Nightblood to Dalinar when he goes to seek his boon.

... Maybe a Ghostblood like Mraize or Iyatil? They do like collecting shiny Invested objects...

 

Edited January 29, 2019 by robardin

[Jace21]

Yeah, her lack of urgency in pursuing Vasher combined with the fact she never names the "criminal" that brought Nighblood made me suspicious as well.

I lean toward Vasher not being the criminal, but I could be wrong.

A member of the Ghostbloods or a non-ghostblood henchman of Yesteel to be revealed in Nightblood are my guesses.

[Weltall]

While it would be hilarious for Vivenna to be hunting Nale under a perfectly valid legal justification (to the extent those could apply in interstellar terms) and playing on our assumptions like that would be a very Brandon thing to do, it helps to bear in mind that we know that Vasher is the one who brought Nightblood to Roshar.

Quote

AllomancerSam

Were Vasher and Nightblood separated before going to Roshar, or after?

Brandon Sanderson

After.

Arcanum Unbounded release party (Nov. 22, 2016)

 

[Toaster Retribution]

10 hours ago, Invocation said:

Pretty sure that by the time this stuff is happening, Nightblood has taken place, and I'm pretty sure there was a strong hint that Yesteel won't be a threat one way or another after the events of that book.

Nightblood is before SA. Isn’t that just assumptions from fans though, that Yesteel won’t be around anymore?

[Vissy]

I don't think that Vivenna is "hunting" Vasher. This implies that she intends to do something to him, specifically something bad, which I'm not convinced is the case. What if she's searching for him because Vasher is needed back on Nalthis for something important? Or because she's discovered something about Nightblood's origins and wants to acquire it for study / experimentation? 

[goody153]

I highly doubt Vivienna is there for violent conflict with either of the two.

She might be there to find them but it might be for other reasons (such as going back to Nalthais where it is peaceful and where the civilization doesn't restart every few eons because of occasional Armageddon that threatens to destroy everybody lol)

She doesn't seem to show that she was there for murder or something sinister as she seems to casually wants to send her regards to Vasher through Kaladin 

Also

Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

My question is, also Vivasher is my favorite ship, so I'm just wondering if he misses her... I'm wondering if Vasher misses Vivenna.

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

...Yes.

Oathbringer release party (Nov. 13, 2017)

 

Edited January 29, 2019 by goody153

[Jace21]

5 hours ago, Weltall said:

While it would be hilarious for Vivenna to be hunting Nale under a perfectly valid legal justification (to the extent those could apply in interstellar terms) and playing on our assumptions like that would be a very Brandon thing to do, it helps to bear in mind that we know that Vasher is the one who brought Nightblood to Roshar.

 

Just to nitpick but technically thr WoB only means they were together when they arrived. There is enough wiggle room that Vasher could have arrived with someone else, and the someone else had Nightblood. Technically they still wouldnt have been "seperated" until after they arrive.

[+Croaker's Apprentice]

My theory is that Vivenna is "hunting" the sequel to her story that the "criminal" Brandon Sanderson promised to write and has not gotten round to.

Fed up of waiting, she *perpendicularitised* herself from whatever computer files in Brandon's study contain the draft Warbreaker Sequel, into Stormlight Archive.

(Melody and Joel might want to grab a handful of chalk and join them...)

 

[Toaster Retribution]

I do think that Vivenna is at least displeased with Vasher. He has a tendency to displease people he knows, for good reasons. Her wanting to kill him might be a stretch but I dont think we should decide what she is up to based on her attitude. She seems calm about most things. And she might also be aware of where Vasher is already, which is why she doesnt ask Kaladin about him. 

[Weltall]

4 hours ago, Croaker's Apprentice said:

(Melody and Joel might want to grab a handful of chalk and join them...)

What, jump into Roshar too? But think of how tragic! it would be. Most of the wildlife consists of disgusting crab things with seventeen legs, those highstorms would positively ruin her hair, no ice cream...

[WestTea]

My personal theory is that he and Vivenna see nightblood used in full force in Warbreakers sequel. They then disagree on what to do with nightblood. Vasher has the idea that they should take it somewhere far away and give to a power that is unlikely to use it for large scale destruction. In this case Cultivation. Vasher steals nightblood from Vivenna (nightblood mentions Vivenna had him for a time but never used him) and comes to Roshar to give Cultivation Nightblood. The only evidence I have for this is when Dalinar goes to see the nightwatcher he is offered a sword that sounds exactly like nightblood and I don't see the nightwatcher going out and getting nightblood on her own I think it must have been given to her. But this is all speculation.

[Juanaton]

21 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

She [Vivenna] seems calm about most things.

Isn't that a specific result of her upbringing? Something that was ALWAYS true about her pre-Warbreaker and while she does allow her emotions to show a little even now (hair changing when they entered Shadesmar for example), it seems like it's just something she has regained now that she has accepted herself and her nature as an Awakener...and that Awakening isn't evil.

[+Oltux72]

On 1/29/2019 at 5:25 AM, robardin said:

But as for that being because Vasher was not, in fact, the criminal agent in question responsible for its transport to Roshar to begin with, and she knows this and maybe she's looking for him for help or something... I LIKE IT!

As for who it is, then, can Nale leave Roshar, as a Herald isn't he sort of a super Cognitive Shadow tied to the Rosharan system?

Nale would have to execute Vasher for murder and treason if they met, wouodn't he?