The Chat Thread

[Voidus]

44 minutes ago, Sorana said:

I personally always prefer good character rp, over the guilds, so I can go along with them being weaker, but I'd like to keep them, in some way. To me they are a vital part of the world-building.

Definitely agree that they should still exist in some aspect at least, personally I would like to explore the possibilities involved with the actual creation of the guilds in-world to really flesh them out, because while there is a lot of characterisation of the guilds OOC I do feel like they're all a little underdeveloped in-world but ultimately the exact nature of the changes would be a communal discussion.

48 minutes ago, MetaTerminal said:

We haven’t had people experience failure, either, so this could be a way to do that. The first half (4/5) is the ‘snap’ and 5/6 is the endgame of the story.

I hadn't even thought of that angle but yeah that's a really good point.
 

34 minutes ago, I think I am here. said:

I love character-driven RP but I feel lots of work would be undone if the guilds were depowered to the degree that was noted.

I expect that the depowering of the guilds would almost certainly be reverted at the end of the era, I think the goal would be more around trying to explore the guilds from a different viewpoint rather than undoing what they've done. I see it as the same principle as a character, yes you can have an OP character who is characterized in an interesting way, but one of the most interesting questions you could ask about such a character is 'who were they before they gained this power?' I'd be interested in using it as an opportunity to make a pseudo-origin story for the guilds.

[AonEne he/him in an enby way]

13 hours ago, MetaTerminal said:

Also; some people gaining more from the shift, or new characters coming into existence, and those people fighting for things to stay changed.

Oh, you're talking about an Endgame scenario. That could be really interesting.

12 hours ago, MetaTerminal said:

We haven’t had people experience failure, either, so this could be a way to do that.

That's...actually very true. Individuals have experienced failure, even groups, but never really the Alleyverse as a whole. At first, the only one who'd be winning would be the Stranger. (Also, this has the potential to make the rest of the DA view him very differently, if they find out about his actions and don't like them.)

11 hours ago, Voidus said:

I'd be interested in using it as an opportunity to make a pseudo-origin story for the guilds.

*Ene points frantically at her prequel suggestion, which she still wants to do* That way we could explore a lot of these possibilities while not completely nerfing the guilds, particularly the bigger ones. I'm totally fine with them having a little less power, like maybe none of them have armies, but I don't want to go back in time either literally or figuratively.

Edit: I forgot to say that I'd definitely want this to happen in a few eras if it does, 6-7 maybe or if it took a backseat for the first era of two then 5-6.

Edited July 12, 2019 by AonEne

[Fatebreaker he/him]

To clarify, this is in no way a ploy to undermine the other guilds while making the DA more powerful, my idea is for the DA to experience the exact same scaling back. The majority of the Stranger's power would be devoted to maintaining the new world, severely handicapping him.

One of my main hopes for this is to allow character interactions that the current power levels of both guilds and individuals wouldn't really allow. Both halves of the plot are currently very loose, and I'm happy to work out further specifics if we decide to go through with it. What I see as the main pro of this plot would be a huge level of community collaboration. Younger guilds means more opportunities for establishing alliances and enemies. Maybe a member of the ghostbloods wakes up as a member of TUBA, or something. 

Another big thing this plot would do is allow a huge scaling back of the DA. They would be on nearly equal footing as the other guilds, rather than drastically OP. While I do enjoy RPing an OP character, I'd like to RP as a denizen without having to find a convoluted explanation as to why they're not using the full power available to them. I have ideas for depowered denizens, even the Stranger. It would make the guilds a lot more interactive then they currently are. Right now it's all massive armies and insane powerlevels, and it's almost impossible for there to be a meeting between the guilds without the threat of leveling most of the city. Lowering the powerlevels of the guilds will require more creative solutions and RP for interguild  conflict. More subterfuge and less all out war.

There are a lot of themes to explore as well, but the main one is Sacrifice. This is something I've been exploring a little with the Stranger and Lita, but it would be expanded upon immensely in the build up and aftermath. Every character would have to make some kind of sacrifice, whether they wanted to reverse the shift or keep it.

I'm totally fine if this is set for an era further down the road, or if we make the first part run in the background of the next era as previously mentioned. It could start out as a sideplot and then take center stage. And the set up can take as long as we like, there's no rush. Especially if people want to have character scenes that would make the Shift all the more impactful. 

[AonEne he/him in an enby way]

Question, Fate, are you thinking the DA would remain at its not-OP level if/when we went back?

[Fatebreaker he/him]

Most likely not, they would regain their resources and knowledge. But that’s not to say it would change in some other ways. There could be considerable conflict among the higher ups that could reshape the guild as we know it.

[+ZincAboutIt she/her]

22 minutes ago, Fatebreaker said:

Lowering the powerlevels of the guilds will require more creative solutions and RP for interguild  conflict. More subterfuge and less all out war.

I really love this whole idea, but this is, I think, my favorite part. It may be due to me having a spy character  , but it would be way more complex and interesting to engage with the guilds in this way, more character-to-character interaction, less fighting, less bombastic insanity. I would really enjoy exploring the DA in a subtle way, rather than the massively OP way that is generally expected and done. 

I think that the emotional and mental effects of this plot would also open up a huge amount of character development. The theme of Sacrifice is a great one and would mean different things to every character. Figuring out about the world and the shift would also likely cause conflict within each guild, people who want to keep the new changes, or go back to the old. I just really love this idea a ton, and would be super excited about it whenever it happens! 

[overlord stick]

The limit on characters is five, right?

[+Ark1002]

I just personally hate the idea of world remake. Multiverse is ok. Time skips are ok. Time stuff? Not really my style. Remaking it? Even with a chance of repair, it's just something i don't like. It's got all the problems that time travel had. But it's only the problems part.

[MetaTerminal he/him]

13 minutes ago, Ax's Boyfriend said:

I just personally hate the idea of world remake. Multiverse is ok. Time skips are ok. Time stuff? Not really my style. Remaking it? Even with a chance of repair, it's just something i don't like. It's got all the problems that time travel had. But it's only the problems part.

Could you elaborate on the problems that you think it would cause? 

I am personally fine with it. I think if we give each person freedom with how much they want each character to change (while still encouraging interesting alteration) and we plan around making the shift meaningful but not hindering, then it should be an interesting and fun idea.

[+Ark1002]

1 minute ago, MetaTerminal said:

Could you elaborate on the problems that you think it would cause? 

I am personally fine with it. I think if we give each person freedom with how much they want each character to change (while still encouraging interesting alteration) and we plan around making the shift meaningful but not hindering, then it should be an interesting and fun idea.

On the individual level it's fine.

My problem is nothing to do with one character.

It's the plots, the guilds, the worldbuilding. I personally have tons of plans for the Alleyverse. And now, the things I've slowly built up for, planned for character arcs, etc. are gone.

Even if you don't have that like I do, all the worldbuilding developed over years, all the hard work put into the guilds... poof. Reversed.

I get that you don't like the guilds monolithic power, but I've put over a year of my life now into the Ghostbloods. I've also done things for the DA, the Keepers, the Diagramists, etc. during that time.

Sorry gotta go clean up a mess

[I think I am here. he/him]

31 minutes ago, Ax's Boyfriend said:

I get that you don't like the guilds monolithic power, but I've put over a year of my life now into the Ghostbloods. I've also done things for the DA, the Keepers, the Diagramists, etc. during that time.

Sorry gotta go clean up a mess

I think it was stated that changes would be undone to their original state, with the additional perk of being able to add things from the changed world (if you want). So, the GBs would be able to regain their power when the changes are undone, but any cool things that happened during the change (such as maybe the GBs began a petting zoo ) would be able to be added (so in the very end you’d have the original power of the guild in addition to the petting zoo). It seems more of a temporary depower to explore more options that will eventually be reversed than a permanent one.

[+Invocation]

First section has been disappeared by myself because I realized I was letting my tiredness make me angry and not channeling it well. My bad.

I'm all for the recreation of the world to shuffle things up a little, it's an interesting prospect.

Edited July 13, 2019 by Invocation

[+Sorana she/her]

Well, I personally don't like the tone of this discussion at the moment.

To me it should be about forming an opinion, not about blaming each other for mistakes/ things that didn't go well.

I propose that we vote on whether we do that plot line or not and if we spread it out over two eras or not.

[+ZincAboutIt she/her]

I agree, putting it to a vote is best! If we decide to spread it out over two eras/ delay it to a later era then we also need to figure out what to do in the immediate next era as well. A vote is the best way.

[Snipexe he/him]

15 hours ago, Emperor Stick said:

The limit on characters is five, right?

I believe it is 8

[overlord stick]

Whoa really? Sweet.

[+Sorana she/her]

3 minutes ago, Emperor Stick said:

Whoa really? Sweet.

Actually I'm pretty sure it's 5.

[Snipexe he/him]

11 minutes ago, Sorana said:

Actually I'm pretty sure it's 5.

I believe it was decided to be 8 seeing how Ark has 8 characters

[MacThorstenson he/him]

3 hours ago, Snipexe said:

I believe it was decided to be 8 seeing how Ark has 8 characters

It’s 5. Ark only has 5 characters and I have it noted which ones. 

I haven’t updated the list because it’s a giant laggy thing that’s a pain to edit. 

[Snipexe he/him]

Just now, MacThorstenson said:

It’s 5. Ark only has 5 characters and I have it noted which ones. 

I haven’t updated the list because it’s a giant laggy thing that’s a pain to edit. 

Oh, ok, my bad, thanks for the correction 

[Voidus]

Seems most people have voted at this point and poll is pretty decisive.
Timeskip for next era will be a short timeskip, will tentatively say 6 months at this point unless anyone has any reason for it to be different. Should be short enough that lingering side threads can just lag a bit behind time wise without too much consequence.

Results:
What kind of Timeskip would you like to see next era?

No timeskip / very short timeskip (1-30 days after end of era) -  3
Short timeskip (2-12 months after end of era) - 9
Mid length timeskip (2-5 years) - 3
Long timeskip (5-20 years) - 2
Very long timeskip (20-100 years) - 0
Far distant future (>100 years) - 0

New poll concerns the plot proposal mentioned here:

Discussion has clarified a few more points since then.

[Voidus]

Think we can call the poll at this point. Results:

1. Would you support the new world plot proposed by Fatebreaker?
Yes - 16
No - 0
2. How long should the plot last
1 Era - 1
2 Eras - 15
3+ Eras (If possible please explain) - 0
N/A - 0
3. When should this plot start?
Era 4 - 7
Era 5 - 6
Era 6 or later - 2
N/A - 1

Unanimous approval that the plot should happen at some point (Nicely done @Fatebreaker), general consensus on a 2-era long plot.
Some contention around whether the plot should start in era 4 or 5, I think we may be able to compromise a bit by having it take a background role in era 4, as @MetaTerminal suggested, with another main plot at the fore acting as something of a distraction. Maybe a small number of characters involved and actually aware of what the DA is planning, some espionage and counterespionage activities going on to try to work out what is actually happening but the main focus of most characters will be on a different main plot. And then Era 5 for when the change actually takes effect and the plot comes to the fore.

Thoughts? Anyone strongly opposed to that or has an alternative suggestion?

[+Sorana she/her]

5 hours ago, Voidus said:

Maybe a small number of characters involved and actually aware of what the DA is planning, some espionage and counterespionage activities going on to try to work out what is actually happening but the main focus of most characters will be on a different main plot. And then Era 5 for when the change actually takes effect and the plot comes to the fore.

I like the idea a lot, but I have some concerns regarding the spying and the small number of characters.

I personally would prefer if it happened in a thread and not in pms. And I fear that this "only a few will be involved" leads to a situation where everybody wants to be a part of it and belong to that "exclusive" circle.

I'm not entirely sure how to rp this, but maybe it would be easiest if it simply happened in a thread and whoever wants to, can join. And if it means almost everybody has a character there, then that just happened. Although it's hard for non-DA characters to spy on anything you do, without dying or getting spiked in the process. Which also might exclude some players. Or you handle it a sole DA plot, for DA characters.

I don't know, just my thoughts, maybe I'm worrying too much

[kenod]

1 hour ago, Sorana said:

I like the idea a lot, but I have some concerns regarding the spying and the small number of characters.

I personally would prefer if it happened in a thread and not in pms. And I fear that this "only a few will be involved" leads to a situation where everybody wants to be a part of it and belong to that "exclusive" circle.

I'm not entirely sure how to rp this, but maybe it would be easiest if it simply happened in a thread and whoever wants to, can join. And if it means almost everybody has a character there, then that just happened. Although it's hard for non-DA characters to spy on anything you do, without dying or getting spiked in the process. Which also might exclude some players. Or you handle it a sole DA plot, for DA characters.

I don't know, just my thoughts, maybe I'm worrying too much

True. A personal suggestion would be took keep the actual actions as a DA-only thing, keeping it in the DA threads. Instead, (at least in the beginning) it'll just be the effects of the process starting up that manifests in the general world that people can investigate. Someone else suggested the universe becoming unstable at one point as a potential plot for Era 4. This might figure into that quite well. All the other plots will be going on as normal, but at some moments weird things occur, sudden instabilities in the universe. People who want to can have their characters investigate to try and figure out what's going on but they won't directly be interacting with the DA.

[Voidus]

3 hours ago, Sorana said:

I like the idea a lot, but I have some concerns regarding the spying and the small number of characters.

I personally would prefer if it happened in a thread and not in pms. And I fear that this "only a few will be involved" leads to a situation where everybody wants to be a part of it and belong to that "exclusive" circle.

I'm not entirely sure how to rp this, but maybe it would be easiest if it simply happened in a thread and whoever wants to, can join. And if it means almost everybody has a character there, then that just happened. Although it's hard for non-DA characters to spy on anything you do, without dying or getting spiked in the process. Which also might exclude some players. Or you handle it a sole DA plot, for DA characters.

I don't know, just my thoughts, maybe I'm worrying too much

Will definitely make sure it happens in threads not PMs, the general goings on should be transparent to players, just not necessarily to all characters.
The 'only a few' is mostly just an expectation that most players will want to be involved in the main thread and that this is probably going to be very light in action and combat and so it may not appeal to many people to participate in directly, not an attempt to try to create an exclusive group or anything.
As for the difficulties on spying on the DA, that's actually one of the parts I'm kind of interested in exploring. Infiltrating into the Alleys and eavesdropping on a planning session between the Department heads would probably be impossible, but tailing a Denizen who's heading out from the Alleys to collect information or materials wouldn't be. And the DA would also probably try to keep an eye on the other guilds to make sure they didn't learn anything so there could be a 'spying on the spies' type of thing going on, not sure how it'll pan out, but I think if we start RPing it we can see where it goes.