Lightspine Posted June 9, 2018 Report Share Posted June 9, 2018 (edited) Okay, I found a WoB that the mysterious "long thin silvery chain" that Kaladin sees in a weapons shop in Celebrant is important: (it was worth a thousand broams of Stormlight) Quote Zmann966 [PENDING REVIEW] There is an expensive steel chain in the shops in Celebrant. Is there anything significant about that. Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] *Hands over a RAFO card* That is such a big RAFO. Super-big RAFO. Footnote: OB chapter 102, described as "a long thin silvery chain", not steelsource So, I want to figure out what the storms this could be. First of all, this thing has to be invested or made of some extremely rare material - there's no other way to justify the cost. I can't think, however, of any rare materials that qualify. A chain of aluminum would definitely have some useful properties, and be very expensive, but on Roshar aluminum is made by soulcasting and therefore it's not particularly rare. (Ex: Shallan's necklace, which she sold for 10 emerald broams I believe, valuable but not nearly as much as this chain.) Thus, I think it's probably been invested. There is really only one example of invested metal that seem to fit this object, and would feasibly appear on Roshar. Let me run down a few unlikely possibilities first though: Metalmind: Highly doubtful, although an unkeyed metalmind may justify the price, I don't see why they would be shaped like chains. In addition, it's highly unlikely such an object made it onto Roshar. Some sort of fabrial: Even the ancient fabrials that didn't require trapped spren required gemstones, a quality not mentioned about this object. Hemalurgically charged: It's a chain. This makes no sense, how does somebody get stabbed by a chain? Odium's godmetal: It seems to be golden, not silver, given the general color of his investure and the color of that knife that Moash used. Honor/Cultivation Godmetal: shardblades are made of this stuff, when spren convert their investure into a solid state. However, shardblades brought into Shadesmar aren't in their metallic state: they appear as deadeyes, like Maya. Therefore, for this thing to be godmetal, it has to be an Honorblade. We do know that one of the Honorblades is missing, that of Talanel. We also don't know if they are capable of changing shape, but it's not completely ruled out. However, it seems unlikely that whoever stole Talenel's blade would let it slip into the hands of a shop-owner. Therefore, I don't think this possiblity is a very strong. The only other possibility is that this thing is (CRACKPOT THEORY ALERT) a Dawnshard (hey, they're supposed to bind stuff, right? And this is a chain, which, you know, binds stuff). But I don't think a world-destroying object would be up for sale in a random store... Okay now that I ruled those out, I hope you guys understand why I think this thing is a Type IV biochromatic entity. Firstly, a chain is a wonderful object to turn into a Type IV. It would be able to grab stuff, tie people together, all sorts of neat tricks. Imagine Wonder Woman's whip. Secondly, it's feasible for such an object to be in Roshar because people from Nalthis are clearly visiting. Thirdly, the description of the chain as silvery matches the style of the sword carried by Vivenna (Azure). Because of this connection, my bet is that this thing was carried over by Vivenna or Vasher, and that if Vivenna had seen it she would have flipped out and demanded it to be returned. Perhaps she needed to trade it in for stormlight while traveling in Shadesmar. I can't think of any reasons why this thing couldn't be a Type IV. So far, we've only seen them as swords but there's no real reason they couldn't be anything else. Any thoughts from you guys? Edited June 9, 2018 by Lightspine 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltall Posted June 9, 2018 Report Share Posted June 9, 2018 You've left out at least one possibility, a metal that is fantastically rare and would thus be extremely expensive: Dragonsteel. We know about it thanks to the excerpts that Brandon has released (the bits he cannibalized for the Shattered Plains and Bridge Four) and it's described as silvery in appearance. Brandon was recently asked about this and you can probably guess the answer. xD 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelly Posted June 9, 2018 Report Share Posted June 9, 2018 Was this the same shop that had the painting from the Court of the Gods? Cause that makes an extra connection to Nalthis. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightspine Posted June 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Weltall said: You've left out at least one possibility, a metal that is fantastically rare and would thus be extremely expensive: Dragonsteel. We know about it thanks to the excerpts that Brandon has released (the bits he cannibalized for the Shattered Plains and Bridge Four) and it's described as silvery in appearance. Brandon was recently asked about this and you can probably guess the answer. xD OH!! I forgot about that possibility, mostly because it hasn't yet appeared in a canon work. That's certainly possible, but I'd be very interested on how it got to Roshar. It seems more likely to come from Nalthis than from Yolin. (In fact, I don't even think Khriss has visited Yolin?) What could Dragonsteel be? Perhaps some godmetal of Adonalsium itself!? Edited June 9, 2018 by Lightspine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightspine Posted June 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Zellyia said: Was this the same shop that had the painting from the Court of the Gods? Cause that makes an extra connection to Nalthis. No, different shop, same market. Although it is a sign of how much exchange has occurred between Nalthis and Shadesmar, along with that lighthouse keeper who asks Kaladin about Heightening. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis he/him Posted June 9, 2018 Report Share Posted June 9, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Lightspine said: No, different shop, same market. Although it is a sign of how much exchange has occurred between Nalthis and Shadesmar, along with that lighthouse keeper who asks Kaladin about Heightening. Who happens to be an Elantrian. Nalthis seems heavily connected right now, but that only because we have three characters from there... But they all happen to be connected. Roshar is remarkably easy to reach from various places in the Cosmere. It's not that Roshar is well connected to Nalthis. It's well connected to everywhere. Quote Questioner Nightblood. He just showed up at the end of The Stormlight Archive-- Brandon Sanderson Yes. Questioner --the last one. So, is there a place that's a connection between all of the universes? Brandon Sanderson Yes, there is. Questioner And it's been reached in The Stormlight Archive? Brandon Sanderson Okay, so I'm guessing you don't know about all of this but there are characters from Elantris that are in Mistborn-- Questioner Yes. Like Hoid. Brandon Sanderson --and all of this stuff. I would say one of the things is that Roshar is a little bit easier to get to than some of the others, but it's not that it has been breached there so much as it's a little bit easier to get to. Questioner Yes, I'm assuming it has something to do with the Cognitive Realm but then objects going through the Cognitive Realm is kind of tripping me. Brandon Sanderson Hehe… *long pause* There are places in the Cognitive Realm that are somewhat nexus-like, like you're talking about. Yes there are places like that. ...So Roshar might actually be the easiest place to get to in the cosmere, like from planet to planet. Sel is probably the hardest, right now. For a long time Taldain was very hard, but not anymore. source Edited June 9, 2018 by Calderis 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray to he/him Posted June 9, 2018 Report Share Posted June 9, 2018 Quote For a long time Taldain was very hard, but not anymore. Interesying. I thought Khriss said Autonomy wouldn't allow foreigners into Taldain? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightspine Posted June 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2018 8 minutes ago, Gray to said: Interesying. I thought Khriss said Autonomy wouldn't allow foreigners into Taldain? I thought so too, but the Ghostbloods evidently got their hands on some white sand somehow. Perhaps it's opened up a bit since it seems that Autonomy is Trell, and is now attacking Scadrial? We know Mistborn Era 2 is immediately after the first arc of Stormlight Archive so it's possible for the timing to line up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gasper he/him Posted June 9, 2018 Report Share Posted June 9, 2018 It might be some sort of weapon against the fused, maybe a silver/aluminum alloy that can bind them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent he/him Posted June 9, 2018 Report Share Posted June 9, 2018 52 minutes ago, Gasper said: It might be some sort of weapon against the fused, maybe a silver/aluminum alloy that can bind them? That would be awfully convenient and a bit Mary Sue-ish, I think. Doesn't feel right. But the chain was in a weapons shop, so there's that to keep in mind. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toaster Retribution he/him Posted June 9, 2018 Report Share Posted June 9, 2018 I thought of the chain-hook thingy Wax uses in SoS, but that wouldn’t work for a variety of reasons. I like the thought of it being a BioChromatic creation, but I do think that Azure would be looking out for it in that case, and she didn’t appear to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainier Posted June 12, 2018 Report Share Posted June 12, 2018 On 6/8/2018 at 5:01 PM, Lightspine said: Hemalurgically charged: It's a chain. This makes no sense, how does somebody get stabbed by a chain? On 6/8/2018 at 10:14 PM, Gasper said: It might be some sort of weapon against the fused, maybe a silver/aluminum alloy that can bind them? Since I've been reading Malazan, and there's a whole bunch in there about chains and chaining, I'm leaning towards some sort of interpretation like this. Sure, hemalurgy require spikes, as far as we know, but who knows what other kinds of magic are waiting to be discovered? Perhaps it's a device that can bind any creature, voidish or mortal...A chain that could bind not in the physical realm, but in the cognitive realm, which is, after all, where it is embodied. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightspine Posted June 12, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2018 5 hours ago, Rainier said: Since I've been reading Malazan, and there's a whole bunch in there about chains and chaining, I'm leaning towards some sort of interpretation like this. Sure, hemalurgy require spikes, as far as we know, but who knows what other kinds of magic are waiting to be discovered? Perhaps it's a device that can bind any creature, voidish or mortal...A chain that could bind not in the physical realm, but in the cognitive realm, which is, after all, where it is embodied. Well, if some in-world documents are to believed, Dawnshards are also capable of "destroying worlds" and I think something of this nature would be under much, much, tighter guard. Like, the type of guard they have around Akinah. And certainly it wouldn't be for sale! (Okay, you could argue that the spren don't even know what it is, other than that it is super valuable. I kind of doubt this though, but it's still possible.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galendo Posted June 13, 2018 Report Share Posted June 13, 2018 On 6/8/2018 at 5:01 PM, Lightspine said: Hemalurgically charged: It's a chain. This makes no sense, how does somebody get stabbed by a chain? 7 hours ago, Rainier said: Sure, hemalurgy require spikes, as far as we know, but who knows what other kinds of magic are waiting to be discovered? Just to be clear, the chain easily could be hemalurgically charged. How do you make a chain? First you take a spike and beat it into a link. Then you take another spike, slip it into the first one, and beat it into another link. Then you take a third spike, slip it through the second one, and beat that spike into a link. Repeat as necessary. I don't see any evidence to suggest that this chain is hemalurgically charged, but if it were, it could potentially be one of the spikiest things in the Cosmere. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine he/him Posted June 13, 2018 Report Share Posted June 13, 2018 (edited) My guess is that it's a necklace with a half of a heart charm and the thing that makes it so valuable is that it was found around the neck of Honor's physical realm remains. The matching heart charm to this is currently around Cultivation's neck, inscribed with a single word, Tanavast. The other heart charm, judiciously turned over and encased in glass in Celebrant, is likewise inscribed on the back....with the name of Cultivation's vessel. I think the reason that Brandon has been so tight-lipped about this particular vessel name is that it is in fact Raysina, and in the ultimate reveal we will find out that Cultivation and Odium are in fact brother and sister!! In the ultimate up-ending of tropes, we will find that when Cultivation was forced to choose between her true love and her brother she chose neither. Instead she chose to focus on breeding new varieties of cats and minks. For realsies, I think this is might be a chain made of aluminium that will have the effect when worn of negating radiant powers (kind of like an a'dam prevents an Aes Sedai from channeling). Edited June 13, 2018 by hoiditthroughthegrapevine 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokeform Posted June 13, 2018 Report Share Posted June 13, 2018 About the hemelurgic theory, don’t spikes lose the powers they steal if they aren’t immediately stuck in a person or something similar? The chain would lose a lot of investiture in the time it would take to bend spikes into a chain and transport it between shardworld, not to mention we don’t have any idea how long it’s been in that shop. Also what would be the point of making a chain of hemelurgic spikes if a person would have to unbend them to use them. The dragon steel and awakened theories sound interesting, but I really don’t know enough about either to know if the chain is made of one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herdazian he/him Posted June 13, 2018 Report Share Posted June 13, 2018 You know when I read this part the first thing that came into my mind was the binding of Fenrir the dread wolf. For those who don't know Fenrir is a super wolf from the Norse mythology who was bound by a chain made of among other things a woman's beard. My thinking about this chain is that somehow this is a mixture of several different forms of investment including breaths and stormlight that may be paradoxical enough to have the power to bind and hold anything and everything. As such it could be a dawnshard or it could just be a general investment inhibitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Trellium he/him Posted June 13, 2018 Report Share Posted June 13, 2018 On 6/9/2018 at 9:30 AM, Toaster Retribution said: I thought of the chain-hook thingy Wax uses in SoS, but that wouldn’t work for a variety of reasons. I like the thought of it being a BioChromatic creation, but I do think that Azure would be looking out for it in that case, and she didn’t appear to be. If its correct that she pawned it during her initial commute from Nalthis in the CR, it was likely less important to her than catching Nightblood and Vasher, even if it is super valuable. I do agree that this implies she didn't sell it in Celebrant. She also may know she sold it for a very high price willingly, and can't currently come close to buying it back at present. 14 hours ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said: For realsies, I think this is might be a chain made of aluminium that will have the effect when worn of negating radiant powers (kind of like an a'dam prevents an Aes Sedai from channeling). Because of soulcasting and the known cost of Shallans Necklace being far less in the PR, this seems unlikely. Also, aluminum caps should prevent allomancers from using their metals on scadrial in that case, and clearly they dont. They just interfere with investiture directed at the wearer. 1 hour ago, Herdazian said: My thinking about this chain is that somehow this is a mixture of several different forms of investment including breaths and stormlight that may be paradoxical enough to have the power to bind and hold anything and everything. As such it could be a dawnshard or it could just be a general investment inhibitor. I agree that a dramatically expensive and most likely invested chain sold in a weapons shop prompting that large a rafo may be a Dawnshard, capable of binding anything. My theory is that Dawnshards are just larger and made up of more of this mystery metal (either Dragonsteel or Adonalsium's God Metal, or they are the same thing and it doesnt matter) and therefore can be used on a planet destroying scale. This may be a smaller item of the same metal, but still super expensive because of what it is made of. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScavellTane Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 I'm going to put forth my theory that its part of Nightbloods sheath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journey Before Pancakes Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 @ScavellTane Nightblood's sheath is aluminum which doesn't seem rare enough to be that special in Shadesmar (and it would be a pretty mediocre chain). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+robardin he/him Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 (edited) Whatever the chain is, it's expensive, locked down and guarded, and in a weapons shop among an inventory of hand axes, knives, swords, and harpoons. Yet also not labeled or explained by the merchant, who only says to Kaladin, "You like? Only a thousand broams of Stormlight!" without any spiel as to why it's worth that much, or why it'd be a bargain at that price because of X or Y, the typical acts of a shopkeeper who smells a big transaction. Was it sarcasm (that Kaladin and co. were clearly not big spenders)? Maybe, but an unbonded spren in Shadesmar might not be capable of being that emotionally subtle. Alternatively, it's an expensive thing, and a weapon (or protection), but not unique, and something commonly recognizable to most denizens of Shadesmar, that only looks like a chain to Kal because that's a close analog to it from his perspective, and he can't conceive of it being anything else. Imagine an iPad under glass that wasn't powered on, it might look to someone from 100 years ago as "obviously" some kind of mirror. Edited June 22, 2018 by robardin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MountainKing Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 54 minutes ago, robardin said: Whatever the chain is, it's expensive, locked down and guarded, and in a weapons shop among an inventory of hand axes, knives, swords, and harpoons. Yet also not labeled or explained by the merchant, who only says to Kaladin, "You like? Only a thousand broams of Stormlight!" without any spiel as to why it's worth that much, or why it'd be a bargain at that price because of X or Y, the typical acts of a shopkeeper who smells a big transaction. Was it sarcasm (that Kaladin and co. were clearly not big spenders)? Maybe, but an unbonded spren in Shadesmar might not be capable of being that emotionally subtle. I'm pretty sure spren can be that emotionally subtle as long as they are in the cognitive realm. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storyspren Posted June 23, 2018 Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 Didn't Adolin forget his mother's chain before the big duel for shards in WoR? Did we ever see that chain again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightspine Posted June 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 Just now, Storyspren said: Didn't Adolin forget his mother's chain before the big duel for shards in WoR? Did we ever see that chain again? Well, Adolin was in that shop.. so he probably would have noticed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storyspren Posted June 23, 2018 Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 Just now, Lightspine said: Well, Adolin was in that shop.. so he probably would have noticed Good point. Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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