What are Dawnshards?

[NeutroniumAlchemist]

Not sure if this topic has been discussed or not, but i haven't found one.

 

In the books i have found no reference to Dawnshards being the same thing as an Honorblade so if not what are they and how do they differ?

I think someone asked this question to Brandon in a Q&A and got an RAFO, but i haven't the link :/

[christophalies]

I believe they are spren. There is WoB that Adonalsium was on Roshar at some point before its shattering. The theory I support is that while Adonalsium was in Roshar he Invested it though I don't know to what degree. So long story short, IMHO Dawnshards = Adonalsium spren.

[Bean]

If this is true maybe that is why there are a few super spren that don't follow the rules of other spren. This also explains why Roshar is more heavily invested than other planets.

[Argent]

It's all speculation at this point. 

[Cayden]

They could have been the original Fabrials, but its still up in the air.

 

If they are spren then I suspect that they were what originally bonded with the Parshendi when Honor/Cultivation first terraformed the planet to create helpers for the newly formed humans. Perhaps they build the original cities based on the way certain sounds make. In a way I think that is one of the older aspects of their song. Imagine builders who could tune themselves together and work in unison? it would be an incredible boon for mankind. And if Odium had somehow blocked those spren from bonding with Parshendi then it might well explain the jealousy and hatred which could have caused the first Voidshendi(im not convinced that they are the voidbringers rather than just a single aspect of it)

 

If they are Fabrials, then I suspect they are as much more powerful than normal Fabrials as Honorblades are more powerful than Shardblades. But how that would work I have absolutely no idea there just isnt enough information yet.

[taveren]

bs said there was some weapon out there made by Adonalsium's opposite so maybe that. not where where saw that thought

[AerionBFII]

I thought the Ancient Spren where the Dawnshards

[Haradion Drogon]

I wonder, if the Spren which can bond with the KR, are Dawnshards? So Cryptics, Honorspren, Highspren atc are Dawnshards?

[NeutroniumAlchemist]

I wonder, if the Spren which can bond with the KR, are Dawnshards? So Cryptics, Honorspren, Highspren atc are Dawnshards?

 

I found this a bit unlikely, since it would mean that every KR had a dawnshard (sentient spren) which would mean that an ordinary shardblade is a dawnshard.. not really backing up this with any facts, it's just sound to boring to me

Also in WoK shallan reads a book of a scholar who are puzzled by an old text mentioning dawnshards and speculates on what they are. If all Shardblades are Dawnshards, how did this pass information pass into the void when the other name stuck?

 

It seems as the Dawnshards are a part of the Oathpact(?) since they all abandoned them when they decided to brake it, which would imply they are significant in a larger sense.

It's also interesting that the KR abandoned their shardblades and plate in a similar fashion when they decided to disband the Knights Radiants. 

Edited March 19, 2014 by NeutroniumAlchemist

[Leuthie]

No evidence, but I lean toward Dawnshard and Dawnsinger being pre-Odium, pre-Oathpact. Mythical remembrance of a time before Desolations. I'm liking the idea that Parshendi were Dawnsingers before being corrupted by voidspren.

[Radiant_thoughts]

What if dawnshards are the godspren so to speak, including the Stormfather, Cuctish(so). Then maybe we will see dalinar wield one. He could control the storm. I think this could be it.

[SmurfAquamarineBodies]

What if the Dawnshards are Shardplates that are powered by the Soulcasters( this could be where they got the Soulcasters), if the spren like Syl are able to inhabit the Shardplate and only through the glyphs are they able to do magic? Makes it sort of more like ironman armour, because that sh*t is awesome.

 

Assuming that this is correct, the spren would be in a gemstone ( like the one that Kaladin got, perhaps this is why nothing happened with that stone. Perhaps this is what Sigzil does.) and so would be able to have a storage of Stormlight and if the Knight didn't want the Plate on then the spren could store it in the cognitive or the spiritual realm.

 

Or the Dawnshards could be the Aminians??, and they are of Cultivation. So the Aimians??, use a magic system which is the same as the Fabrial system except that they are the Fabrials. Which would make Shardplate something that was made in imitation of the Aimians. But was mechanical? and instead of using random spren, they used the bond spren because Ishi made them. So when the Knights quit the reason they killed their spren was so that the ones that survived wouldn't help in the next desolation. They also then split their Shardplate into the two components to make them fairly useless.

 

Thoughts on my random theory?

[Darkness]

What if dawnshards are the godspren so to speak, including the Stormfather, Cuctish(so). Then maybe we will see dalinar wield one. He could control the storm. I think this could be it.

I hate to necro a topic, but it's more efficient than starting my own. Rereading through the Way of Kings, when Kabsal speaks of Dawnsingers as kindly spren who were sent by the Almighty. Healers. I had the thought that perhaps Cusicesh and the Stormfather are 2 of them. "Dawnshards" could refer to any other spren that were of similar distinction, yet yielded themselves to become tools, and subsequently perished after the Recreance. This actually fits quite nicely with why the Stormfather is so set on not becoming a shardblade (ie. dawnshard); he has seen others of his kind perish. Extending this even further, perhaps only the Bondsmiths could form a Nahel bond with dawnsingers?

 

I'm not sure where I want to fit the Nightwatcher into this... theory. Since the reread, I've actually been thinking she may be something more primal than dawn singers, even more ancient. I've speculated that it may be her powers that allowed the role of the Heralds. tWoK says that the voidbringers are a natural reaction to the Almighty's goodness, to balance Him. Only men can truly bring good into the cosmere through their choosing good over evil. As mythological as the source may be, there may be some sense in saying that balance must be maintained. That's my logic in why the Nightwatcher has to bring a curse for every blessing.

 

Back to the Heralds, I'm currently thinking that the Nightwatcher somehow assisted in the formation of the Oathpact by giving the Heralds the power to fight the desolations and hold back Odium, but had to balance it with the curse of being tormented. When the Heralds (who willingly chose to be part of the Oathpact) broke and abandoned Taln, they could leave their responsibility and part of their power (Honorblades) behind, but they couldn't just leave the curse, and it has tormented them cognitively and spiritually instead of physically, leaving them as shades of their former selves.

That's all guesswork, and I have no proof, and very little base for it, but it seems like it would build a great story, and it's at least believable. Isn't it? Now's when I get corrected in my suppositions and learn something awesome

[Cheese Ninja]

The wiki seems good: http://coppermind.net/wiki/Dawnshard

I've been thinking they were something that could be used by Bondsmiths. With the whole "known to bind any creature voidish or mortal" bit and the epigraph from WoR:

"So Melishi retired to his tent, and resolved to destroy the Voidbringers upon the next day, but that night did present a different stratagem, related to the unique abilities of the Bondsmiths; and being hurried, he could make no specific account of his process; it was related to the very nature of the Herald and their divine duties, an attribute the Bondsmiths alone could address."

I think "Voidbringers" in this case refers to the Listeners, and by using the Dawnshards he was able to force them to remain in the Spren-less Parshmen form.  Probably wrong, but it's the best guess I've got at this point.  This doesn't necessary preclude the Dawnshards from being Spren either.

[skaa]

It's great to see more discussion on the Dawnshards. I once speculated that Dawnshards were magical musical instruments. I find nothing in Words of Radiance that contradicts that theory, although I now suspect further that the Dawnshards, like the Shardblades, were also spren. As for the Stormfather, Cusicesh, the Nightwatcher, or the other Nahel spren being among them, I honestly doubt it, because Tanavast implied that the Dawnshards have been lost:

 

“I wish I could do more,” repeated the figure in gold. “You might be able to get him to choose a champion. He is bound by some rules. All of us are. A champion could work well for you, but it is not certain. And… without the Dawnshards… Well, I have done what I can. It is a terrible, terrible thing to leave you alone.”

 

 

Surely he would not talk that way if the cognitive shadow he left behind, the Stormfather, is one of these Dawnshards.

Edited January 24, 2015 by skaa

[Haradion Drogon]

Do we have confirmation that the Dawnshards are not another name for the Honour Blades?

Other than that, I would speculate that they are Cultivation's equvilant of the Dawnshards. The name impklies to me they were the first splinters that Shards made... So maybe they are that?

Or maybe they are the name of Adonailisum Spren? DAWN shards, splinters from the Dawn of life on Roshar?

[natc]

Well the honorblades mostly still seem to at least be partly functional if not completely so, so that's out.

[Natans]

One word Tanavastium!!! The physical aspect of a god highly invested stuff gived some function.

We know that the shardblades are spren cognitive bodies turned physical, and that the spren mimicked the power that Tanavast  gived to the mans.

We know that the "gods"  also have physical manifestation in the world, Atium, Lerasium, Harmonium(recently aluded), the shard pools.

So the dawnshards could be Tanavastium, A.K.A. Tanavast physical aspect bleed in the world. 

Honorblades, and the danwshards are Tanavast analog of Shardblades and Fabrials =)

Evidence? Almost none. But hey give that make sense =)


 
 

[Patrick Star]

Well, shardblades and honorblades attack the cognitive aspects of people and objects. What if dawnshards can directly attack them in the spiritual realm?

Edited January 26, 2015 by Patrick Star

[Natans]

Shardblades cut the soul, don't they ? So they attack the spiritual aspect of the being  if I recall precisely =)

[Cheese United]

You know I've always thought it would be cool if the DawnShards pre-dated Adonalsium. I don't know why, but it just seemed like a cool idea.Kind of like the Hoid's of the before time: Sort of wandering around doing things, and occasionally helping out.

[Patrick Star]

Shardblades cut the soul, don't they ? So they attack the spiritual aspect of the being if I recall precisely =)

Nalan said that he used regrowth on Szeth before his soul left his body. This suggests that Kal's shardblade had not directly attacked his soul.

[Shardcellist]

Actually, that scene indicated that Kaladin's Shardblade cut his soul and only his cognitive function was left:

 

"How?" he asked.

"I waited until you crashed to the ground," the man said, "until you were broken and mangled, your soul cut through, dead for certain. Then, I restored you."

"Impossible."

"Not if it is done before the brain dies. Like a drowned man restored to life with the proper ministrations, you could be restored to life with the right fabrial. If I had waited seconds longer, of course, it would have been too late."

He spoke the words calmly, without emotion.

[ROSHtaFARian2.0]

You know I've always thought it would be cool if the DawnShards pre-dated Adonalsium. I don't know why, but it just seemed like a cool idea.Kind of like the Hoid's of the before time: Sort of wandering around doing things, and occasionally helping out.

 

On a similar note I've actually been speculating that the Dawnshards herald from a time before Roshar.  That maybe they're some kind of remnant or artifact from the Tranquiline Halls.

[Sunbringer]

so in light of oathbringer, I think that the dawnshards are enormous fabrials. it seems to me that urithiru is some enormous fibril, but it isn't working anymore. almost as if it is dead. It also said in the book that urithiru looked almost alien in design, as if it came from another world, so I think the entire city might be a dawnshard. 

Also, this has even less evidence than that, but just based on how they described the gemstones as like garnets for blood, or emeralds for a heart makes is seem as if it could be like an enormous robot. That would be cool but probably not likely.

Last thing, but if the dawnshards are fabrials and urithiru is one, it seems like it is just missing the spren that is needed to make a fabrial work, so all they have to do is find a suitable spren to inhabit it.