How did Jasnah...(Spoilers)

[marianmi]

Um, Jasnah had a blade pierce her heart. I do think that's a serious condition Kaladin never experienced.

 

Yeah, Kaladin was cut with a shardblade. Twice.

Also, his body (and especially Szeth's) was basically blown away multiple times, and stormlight basically re-knitted in seconds the damage. Think of the visual - muscles moving around and reknitting, skin growing in seconds...

Szeth got his eyes burnt. And fell from the sky.

The Lopen grew a new hand!

 

Plus, maybe Jasnah's heart is in the wrong place.

Edited March 6, 2014 by marianmi

[Guest Shash]

The knife retaining the force to "thunk" audibly into the floor implies an illusion to me, but raises the question of how Jasnah managed it. It's not an ability we associate with her. Sticking an actual body would require tremendous force to go through with enough force to make that kind of sound. Perhaps her spren did it?

Meh. You overestimate the human body. I could quite easily stab through a person hard enough to 'thunk' into a wooden floor. You'd have to be quite weak not to be able to. Unless you didn't know anatomy very well and tried to stab directly through the sternum and spine. But this was a strong man vs a small woman and he had a whole lot of leverage. I've never actually stabbed anyone personally, but my buddy has and he says that a knife will go into someone easier than you'd expect. Although my buddy stabbed through the side and ribs into the heart, not directly through the front of the chest.

This isn't hearsay; I watched him do it.

[Aleksiel]

Yeah, Kaladin was cut with a shardblade. Twice.

Also, his body (and especially Szeth's) was basically blown away multiple times, and stormlight basically re-knitted in seconds the damage. Think of the visual - muscles moving around and reknitting, skin growing in seconds...

Szeth got his eyes burnt. And fell from the sky.

The Lopen grew a new hand!

 

Plus, maybe Jasnah's heart is in the wrong place.

 

Only once actually and it was his arm that was cut, not a vital organ. Stormlight can not heal a fatal wound.

[treblkickd]

Oh good, just finished WoR today. Holy crap. Anyway...

 

Really I don't get all these wild theories. Fabrials, illusions, healings in Shadesmar..?

Kaladin was in way worse conditions than 2 knife wounds, people. And Jasnah's been a surgebinder double the time Kaladin has been one.

She healed herself with stormlight. Simple. 

More interesting is ... what's with the burns?

 

I agree that stormlight healing seems the obvious explanation here, especially in light of the kind of healing Kaladin accomplishes almost instantaneously several times in WoR.

 

The other thing to consider, which was pointed out above, is that we don't really know yet how advanced Jasnah's Nahel bond is. Considering that five years pass b/w the night that Jasnah "meets" her spren face-to-face, and the start of WoK, it stands to reason that she's probably quite advanced. We also know that she's been targeted for assassination numerous times before, so it's reasonable to assume that she knows whats up re: stormlight healing and how best to pull it off. 

It's also clear from the epilogue that Jasnah has reached the your-spren-is-your-shardblade level of Radiant. While the threshold for reading that level is almost certainly variable b/w the different kinds of Nahel bonds, her speed and apparent familiarity w/ it supports the idea that she's at least moderately far along in the radiant progression. Not to mention the fact that by the epilogue we've seen her make pretty impressive use of both of her surges.

 

The only real oddity/unknown here is the burn marks. There were torches on the ship during the attack, so maybe Jasnah got burned at some point and only had a limited supply of stormlight to heal with. If that's not the case then it'd have to be speaking to her adventures after the attack (which I'm sure we're all curious to learn about).

[Pinpoint]

As said by Darkness, I think that as long as the brain isn't dead, the body an be restored. Which one is more remarkable. healing the soul or the Heart. 

 

It was fairly obvious that she was going to come back. I called it a while before I read the Epilogue. Rather then looking at the story, just look at the plot structure. Jasnah died at the very beginning of the book and very abruptly. If you look at the plot, it makes beautiful sense that Brandon would finish the book with Jasnah coming back. This wraps the book up very nicely. it ties the begginning to the end at the same time leading the reader onward to the next book. It is pretty rare for an author to kill a character as important as Jasnah at the beginning of a book at the beginning of a series. It doesn't serve much purpose doing it that way

 

 

The Lopen grew a new hand!

 

Ah, correction. Lopen grew a stub. ;D Where we left off he still had some glowing  to do. You never know, he might end up growing another leg.

Edited March 7, 2014 by Pinpoint

[Aminar]

I agree people are looking too far into it.  She didn't fake her death.  It's just that Stormlight renders a person nigh on unkillable without damage to the brain due to offering a second way to oxygenate the brain that doesn't use the circulatory system at all.  It's basic biology, augmented by rules we've known about Stormlight since the second prologue in The Way of Kings, applied in a way we hadn't thought of.

[shadewolf]

I agree people are looking too far into it.  She didn't fake her death.  It's just that Stormlight renders a person nigh on unkillable without damage to the brain due to offering a second way to oxygenate the brain that doesn't use the circulatory system at all.  It's basic biology, augmented by rules we've known about Stormlight since the second prologue in The Way of Kings, applied in a way we hadn't thought of.

 

You bring up a really good point, about the second way to oxygenate the brain. I guess theoretically, Jasnah might be able to soulcast the carbon dioxide in her blood stream into oxygen, and bypass the whole heart pumping blood issue, and when people weren't looking she'd heal herself and go.

[Aminar]

You bring up a really good point, about the second way to oxygenate the brain. I guess theoretically, Jasnah might be able to soulcast the carbon dioxide in her blood stream into oxygen, and bypass the whole heart pumping blood issue, and when people weren't looking she'd heal herself and go.

That isn't it at all. Stormlight itself supplants the need to breath/oxygenate the blood. By doing so it renders all bodily injuries nonlethal, because death happens due to a lack of oxygen to the brain. Functionally a bodiless head could probably live for as long as it could hold stormlight.

[Natans]

The problem here is that everyone assume that they pierced her heart when everyone know that Jasnah are heartless Case solved.

Edited March 7, 2014 by Natans

[Aleksiel]

The problem here is that everyone assume that they pierced her heart when everyone knoe that Jasnah are heartless Case solved.

 

She left her heart with Kaladin, because plottwist! Jasnah is Tarah.

[Azul]

I'll admit i wanted to believe the drawing of the statue was somehow linked to Jasnah but I'm pretty sure it was just wishful thinking of someone looking for any excuse for her survival.  I makes much more sense this is somehow connected to Shalash, who we know goes around destroying her image around the world and is the Herald associated with Shallan's Radiant order, the Lightweavers.

 

I really do think we are trying to come up with crazy ways for her survival.  Its likely possible you could have some expert artist craft a statue of yourself in stone then maybe even soulcast it into a 'clone'.  We know the Soulcasting the Ten Essences are fairly easy.  But where in the would would she have kept a lifesize statue of herself?  If she had time to soulcast that why not just do away with her attackers as she did those in the ally? Not to mention all the different infused gemstones you would likely need for such a complex soulcast. 

 

I think Occam's razor applies here.  She was hurt badly, perhaps even to the point of death or near death.  Stormlight healed her enough to let her make a desperate escape.

[Moogle]

I think Occam's razor applies here.  She was hurt badly, perhaps even to the point of death or near death.  Stormlight healed her enough to let her make a desperate escape.

 

It's funny because I think Occam's razor points to her faking her death.

 

She's got a spren watching over her 24/7. There is no way she was surprised by the men barging into her room. She knew Shallan's ship was in her father's employ, and had links to the Ghostbloods, so she would have been on alert 24/7.

 

Any man who gets close enough to stab her is vulnerable. She can obviously summon a Shardblade at a moment's notice, not to mention Soulcast them from a distance (and she had a ton of gems nearby).

 

If a bunch of thugs stabbed Jasnah and killed her, it was because Jasnah allowed it to happen. I can see very few other explanations.

[Aleksiel]

It's funny because I think Occam's razor points to her faking her death.

...

If a bunch of thugs stabbed Jasnah and killed her, it was because Jasnah allowed it to happen. I can see very few other explanations.

 

I agree, but that would mean she purposely abandoned Shallan to deal this assassins on her own when she knows very well Shallan can't soulcast the way she killed those thugs in Karbranth. And I have hard time believing Jasnah doesn't care enough about Shallan. 

[Aminar]

It's funny because I think Occam's razor points to her faking her death.

 

She's got a spren watching over her 24/7. There is no way she was surprised by the men barging into her room. She knew Shallan's ship was in her father's employ, and had links to the Ghostbloods, so she would have been on alert 24/7.

 

Any man who gets close enough to stab her is vulnerable. She can obviously summon a Shardblade at a moment's notice, not to mention Soulcast them from a distance (and she had a ton of gems nearby).

 

If a bunch of thugs stabbed Jasnah and killed her, it was because Jasnah allowed it to happen. I can see very few other explanations.

That's pretty inhuman. At sea is typically one of the safest places. And remember that Jasnah's door latch was broken. It seems unlikely she faked her death, unless she's actually allied with the Ghostbloods and Kabsol wwas part of Amaram's contingent.

[RShara]

Shallan does say that she saw Jasnah stabbed through the heart, but I don't know how reliable her account is, given that she was probably pretty freaked out at the time.

[Glaring at the Survivor]

One of her surge powers is apparently Transportation, which explains (though we don't know the method) how she got out.  But I don't understand how that knife could go through her and hit the wood below like that without killing her.

If she has the transportation surge, for all we know she transported the knife into some (dead?) body and blood (from that person?) onto her. And then transported away at the end.

[Aleksiel]

It's a bit offtopic, but this is probably the best thread to post this.

 

Was anyone else surprised that Dalinar, his sons and Elhokar didn't seem to mourn Jasnah at all? There is a scene where Dalinar is comforting Navani, but nothing in his inner dialogue or speech showed that Jasnah's death had touched him in any way.

[Spark]

Was anyone else surprised that Dalinar, his sons and Elhokar didn't seem to mourn Jasnah at all? There is a scene where Dalinar is comforting Navani, but nothing in his inner dialogue or speech showed that Jasnah's death had touched him in any way.

 

I was wondering about that, too. It all felt a bit like "Oh well, moving on." On top of that, she's part of the royal family. Shouldn't there have been official mourning ceremonies or something like that?

[Bobobagins]

I don't think anyone has comprehended the healing ability of the radiant it seems that by the end of the book we can infer that there healing ability goes so far as regrowing limbs. as long as there is stormlight to use then it doesn't seem that hard to imagine that as long as it's a normal knife and not a shard blade that a normal mortal wound could be healed. this means that even though she died for a time of the stormlight she had in or on her could possibly have brought her back. Just a theory.....

[ricree]

There's also a question regarding how literal the need to "breathe" in stormlight is. Could a sufficiently bad lung wound prevent gaining or retaining the stormlig needed to heal?

[Numb]

It's a bit offtopic, but this is probably the best thread to post this.

 

Was anyone else surprised that Dalinar, his sons and Elhokar didn't seem to mourn Jasnah at all? There is a scene where Dalinar is comforting Navani, but nothing in his inner dialogue or speech showed that Jasnah's death had touched him in any way.

 

Dalinar at least is a leader and is trying to save the world. Him grieving wouldn't help Navani nor would it bring back Jasnah so it makes sense that he just moves on. As for his sons well to them she was merely a distant cousin that they don't see much, I can imagine they did some off screen grieving but not too much.  

[Aleksiel]

Dalinar at least is a leader and is trying to save the world. Him grieving wouldn't help Navani nor would it bring back Jasnah so it makes sense that he just moves on. As for his sons well to them she was merely a distant cousin that they don't see much, I can imagine they did some off screen grieving but not too much.  

 

As true as this is, I still expected something more. Just because he had no time to mourn doesn't mean I was ok with him not thinking about Jasnah at all. It just felt odd to me.

[Cayden]

There is one thing a lot seem to be forgetting. Stormlight changes the body, it changes it in such massive ways and seems to permeate your entire body. 

 

The two questions in my mind are these:

"Does stormlight replace oxygen or merely render it unnecessary?" 

And secondly and more importantly: "Does it require blood to pump its way around your body?"

 

If it replaces Oxygen then it would be required to travel around in your bloodstream for it to be effective, so I would guess that no it doesnt replace it, it merely makes it pointless.

 

And if it does not replace Oxygen then it would not need bloodflow to move it around your body, in which case being stabbed by a common blade; asin non-shardblade would not be particularly dangerous to a person holding stormlight. The Stormlight would prevent any damage from oxygen deprivation to your brain, it already does that when you hold stormlight for extended periods of time anyway. And the only guaranteed way to kill a surgebinder is to sever the soul of the surgebinder.

 

Therefore while the wound to Jasnah would likely have been painful, I think she would have healed it quite easy, within minutes/hours of removing the weapon.

 

Personally I think the reason why she took so long was that she was essentially forced to elsecall to shadesmar, something we can pretty much guess she had never done before; totally entering shadesmar in the flesh rather than just mentally. This could cause some serious disorientation and it appears she was given access to a lot of different spren, namedly the highspren whom answered her questions at great length. She was basically there for around two months or so correct? 

 

This makes me wonder whether time works the same way in shadesmar if you enter fully? though I suspect that would not be the case, it would smack too much of the world of dreams.

 

However another good question is that is entering fully the way worldhoppers go to different worlds, and does it take time to enter/leave shadesmar fully depending on just how far you are trying to move? i.e entering from one world to another could take centuries of real time, whereas from one point on a planet to another could take days,weeks or months?

 

Though there is perhaps a simpler reason for the delay... This is Jasnah Kholin! she would have just been given access to an enormous amount of knowledge and might simply have lost track of time, she certainly doesnt seem aware that she had been gone from the world for months.

[Aleksiel]

Though there is perhaps a simpler reason for the delay... This is Jasnah Kholin! she would have just been given access to an enormous amount of knowledge and might simply have lost track of time, she certainly doesnt seem aware that she had been gone from the world for months.

 

That, and time might be different in Shadesmar. 

 

Edit: Oh, sorry, you've mentioned it.

Edited March 9, 2014 by Aleksiel

[shinintendo]

I didn't read all the replies but I think Whatever she did it was out of defense mechanism or reflex.

Jesnah is strong and give her time to prepare she will fry them alive, plus she won't leave Shallan in such danger alone.

 

She doesn't sound surprise Shallan is alive while talking to wit, maybe she kind of had knowledge of the future or she watched from her all the time before telephoning. ok, now I am grasping at straws.