[OB] OB opinion poll

[DeployParachute]

3 hours ago, kari-no-sugata said:

I actually felt depressed for a few days after reading it, rather than invigorated like I was with the previous books. 

This.  This is why I gave the book a 7/10, although I probably felt depressed for very different reasons than you.  Overall, i think the actual prose of the book is some of the best that Brandon has ever done.  I'm very proud to see his major growth and improvement in this regard.  But, as others have noted, the narrative felt very overwhelmed at times, bogged down by too many things going on, and from too many different perspectives.  It also feels like a lot of the mystery has gone out of the story at this point.  Now that Odium has a face, a voice, a character, it feels less threatening than it once did.  I also thing the lengthy amount of time spent in Shadesmar hurt a lot of the mystery as well.  You definitely came away from that feeling as though the overall cosmere plot line is bleeding in heavily.  I also don't know how much plugging Vivenna into the storyline added to it.  The cameo's are getting to be a bit too much.  I know that some elements and characters from Warbreaker were originally created with SA in mind, but it feels like we're starting to lose some of that "separate and distinct" feel for some of the different cosmere works.

 

WoR had me feeling very elated at the end.  OB did not.  And now, because of OB, I don't think I'm going to be able to read or enjoy some of my favorite scenes from WoR for a while now, if ever.

Edited November 20, 2017 by DeployParachute

[Steeldancer]

Meanwhile, after reading it I was just in awe. 

I didn't care about the lack of Shalladin. So I guess that helped. 

[Fifth of Daybreak]

Just out of curiosity, those of you who are saying it felt rushed, too many POV, small characters, etc. Have you guys read WoT? I'm wondering if that might be part of the reason for our differences in opinion. For me, reading this was seeing those flaws you've described improved greatly from where I saw them in WoT. I felt a lot of the same tension in part 5 that I felt throughout A Memory of Light, which really blew me away since this is only book three and that took thirteen books to set up.

[Blacksmithki]

Honestly, the book could have been around 160% of the length and it would have been better, but it feels like this book will be improved when book four comes out and all those hanging threads are fixed, so it feels less like Brandon forgot them and more like it wasn't the right time for them to be important.

[What's a Seawolf?]

10/10 with ease.

[PunSpren]

I gotta say I loved Oathbringer, but for me its huge moments hit me hard on the melancholy side of things, rather than some of the awesome highs of Words of Radiance.

Oathbringer was deep, opened up hard subjects without concrete answers and was written, and approached beautifully, where its words hit hard they evoked sadness, worry, and gasps of disbelief. Some of the bridge 4 chapters made me cry. 

But I cant think of any chapters ( other than Kal coming back to hearthstone) that made me shake with excitement like Words of Radiance did.

Oathbringer was very much a different book than I expected and that makes me quite excited for the future of this series  

[Leyrann]

1 hour ago, Fifth of Daybreak said:

Just out of curiosity, those of you who are saying it felt rushed, too many POV, small characters, etc. Have you guys read WoT? I'm wondering if that might be part of the reason for our differences in opinion. For me, reading this was seeing those flaws you've described improved greatly from where I saw them in WoT. I felt a lot of the same tension in part 5 that I felt throughout A Memory of Light, which really blew me away since this is only book three and that took thirteen books to set up.

THIS, so much THIS!

I wanted to write out what I thought about it, but that would basically be copying your post. It really felt similar to A Memory of Light, and indeed, we're not even halfway through yet. I mean, we got a big chapter (only 45 pages though, down from aMoL's 200), we got a main character almost giving in but then defying and (for now) defeating the big bad AND that main character created a column of light after doing so.

Also Shallan's battle with Re-Shepir in Urithiru reminded me of Rand's battle with the Dark One, being fought outside the 'real' world.

[mariapapadia]

6 hours ago, kari-no-sugata said:

 I actually felt depressed for a few days after reading it, rather than invigorated like I was with the previous books.

I think I am heading that way as well. Though I don't know if it's because the huge expectations I had from the book, that weren't 100% fullfilled or some things that just bothered me. 

I... enjoyed it, but didn't love it. It's been already a day since I finished it and I have to give it a bit more thought, but leaving aside the romance part that didn't live up to my expectations there were too many parts of the book(compared with the others) that I had a problem with, for this to be my perfect Sanderson read. 

I mentioned this on another post but :

• Szeth appeareance and how easy everyone went with it after he tried the whole previous book to kill Dalinar,
• Moash's arc mirroring Kaladin's and his character/ chapters in general,
• the whole part 5 as a single battle scene and the many POVs (I usually don't have a problem with changing POVs so quickly and it gets me on the edge on other books, but for some reason.. here it didn't work that much),
• Syl and Pattern mostly being absent from the dialogue in parts 3-4 (or at least that s how it felt at that point),
• Shallan's mental problems not getting a proper closure (IMO). 

In this more than in other books it felt like.. too many things were happening. Which I don't have a problem with usually, but part 2 felt a bit too long and parts 1, 3 and 4 felt like 3 mini books, instead of being part of a full one, if that makes sense. I think I enjoyed more each part, than the overall feeling. While I was reading , I often found myself thinking "when is it going to be mindblowing???". Compared to other Sanderson's books it didn't blew me away. I know this might be an unpopular opinion. I don't know if it's because I anticipated it too much or because I had a lot of expectations going in or I was much more aware of every important little detail. It was a bit too fragmented for me, but I will have to give it some rereads. I found WoK really slow the first time I read it, but on the rereads I flew through it and enjoyed it much more. 

I would give it and 8 for the moment, WoR is still my favourite. 

Edited November 20, 2017 by mariapapadia

[Violetsoda]

Overall I would say 8/10. I only subtracted one point for cheezy dialogue, and one point for Lift being grating. I think we all know that dialogue isn't one of Sanderson's strong points, but not all authors write lovely, florid, purple prose like Rothfuss. If they did, we would never get this book. This is just personal preference, but Lift is irritating, she drives me crazy, and any time she is on screen, I find myself wanting a DIY chopstick lobotomy. I have a very dry sense of humor, and find the scene with the bridgemen discussing Drehy courting a man much more humorous than Lift's butt references.

But of a book this length, and those were the only things I could fault? That's pretty brilliant, and they just come down to personal taste. But can we talk about the mysteries that were solved? The answers we got? It makes me really excited for the reveals in the next two volumes, I cannot wait to find out what is going down next! Plotting, structure and purposefulness are what I adore about Sanderson, and why I read him, and this book delivers.

[The Invested Beard]

10/10 would neglect all semblance of normal life and responsibility again.

[Steeldancer]

One thing about the cheesy dialogue- 

Being in a relationship doesnt mean you don't have cheesy dialogue. I think that's like a staple of relationships. A ridiculous one from the outside, but from the inside? 

Just saying. 

Edited November 20, 2017 by Steeldancer

[mariapapadia]

9 minutes ago, Steeldancer said:

One thing about the cheesy dialogue- 

Being in a relationship doesnt mean you don't have cheesy dialogue. I think that's like a staple of relationships. A ridiculous one from the outside, but from the inside? 

Just saying. 

I don't have anything with cheesy dialogue in private, but in public or PDA.. that just makes me cringe 

[rjl]

Really hard to say, I've grown to prefer faster paced books with a few less viewpoints; but this was still amazing. For now I'm giving it 9/10, I loved it but I hope the next one gets slightly tighter.

[Egomere]

6-8/10 Enjoyable with some highly amusing parts all around (from Pattern, to Kaladin and Jasnah banter, to shadesmar Syl) and some genuine awesome moments (Dalinar semi-ascending, Jasnah on the battlefield,  Nightblood.

But felt a bit lacking in certain areas that weren't quite what I expected of BS so someparts were good some not so much - but I felt pumped during the confrontation scenes but then the ending was a let down due to a few reasons... really hate waiting for the installment in a series of books anyway so all the answered questions I have to wait to get answers for always bugs me.

[Harbour]

8/10.

The biggest flaw of OB was the execution and resolution of large part of plot lines. The main one, that belongs to Dalinar, was great. History one was great too. But many side lines were handled poorly and uncharacteristically weak for BS. It looked like he simply didnt give them enough love.

The second biggest flaw for me was the development of certain characters like Shallan, Renarin, Adolin, Jasnah. They were totally undercooked and some of their dialogues were done pretty lame.

And thats it. Action was juicy, some characters were EPIC, world building was absolutely on point. Honest 8/10 but not more than that. I felt slightly disappointed since the things i look forward the most during the past 3 years were among those i mentioned in the flaws of the book. WoR still is my favorite SA book. And i lean towards TWoK rather than OB.

Definitely not the strongest book from BS in my opinion.

Edited November 20, 2017 by Harbour

[CaptainRyan]

8/10

To echo many people's thoughts, there are so many fantastic aspects of this book that were, in the end, and for me personally, weakened by some of the flaws.

Too many scenes were missing. Kaladin and Shallan's trip to Thaylen City to unlock the Oathgate. Szeth's discussion with the other characters as for why the Assassin in White should be allowed to join them instead of being executed for the many, many crimes he has committed. Any reunion among Dalinar/Navani/Adolin/Renarin etc. and Jasnah - it's almost as if no one noticed she had died and come back to life. There were just too many important scenes that were missing for this book to feel complete.

Add to that the feeling that many scenes were unsatisfactory in their delivery (Kaladin's homecoming to Hearthstone, Kaladin choosing to randomly leave his Parshmen friends quickly and without notice of any kind which would obviously have repercussions for those Parshmen, Szeth's training montage with the Skybreakers, Dalinar's Ascension [did I miss foreshadowing or something?]) and Oathbringer quickly becomes my third favorite Stormlight Archive book. It is still a very good book and I have high hopes the series still but my favorite SA book will remain the Way of Kings for now.

[AbsentKeeper]

I gave it a 9/10. It was exceptional, but honestly I think it could have benefited from another 50 pages or so after the battle. It seems like a lot of the important cleanup was left to be retroactively explained next book.

For example, I would have appreciated seeing Dalinar and the others confront Szeth about apparently switching sides, and how Nale reacted to Jezrien's death so soon after swearing to fight for the Parshmen.

Edit: it amuses me that the bell curve of our answers suggests that many of us would have rated it 11+ if given the option 

Edited November 20, 2017 by Cowmanthethird

[StormingTexan]

3 hours ago, Fifth of Daybreak said:

Just out of curiosity, those of you who are saying it felt rushed, too many POV, small characters, etc. Have you guys read WoT? I'm wondering if that might be part of the reason for our differences in opinion. For me, reading this was seeing those flaws you've described improved greatly from where I saw them in WoT. I felt a lot of the same tension in part 5 that I felt throughout A Memory of Light, which really blew me away since this is only book three and that took thirteen books to set up.

All right so this is a good point. I guess I thought SA would be a little more like WoT with a much slower building story since we are only at book 3 of 10 and then bam all these mysteries are revealed that I thought would take several more books to answer (granted we are left with plenty still). Then the battle Odium taking over humans selecting Dalinar as his champion seemed like book 5 stuff to me. So yeah this may be part of it the story is just moving a lot faster than I thought it would. I think a re-read of part 5 (which I am currently doing) could make me appreciate it more as I do not have the same level of anticipation on how it will end and can handle the whirlwind of action better. 

[Egomere]

1 minute ago, StormingTexan said:

All right so this is a good point. I guess I thought SA would be a little more like WoT with a much slower building story since we are only at book 3 of 10 and then bam all these mysteries are revealed that I thought would take several more books to answer (granted we are left with plenty still). Then the battle Odium taking over humans selecting Dalinar as his champion seemed like book 5 stuff to me. So yeah this may be part of it the story is just moving a lot faster than I thought it would. I think a re-read of part 5 (which I am currently doing) could make me appreciate it more as I do not have the same level of anticipation on how it will end and can handle the whirlwind of action better. 

It is a good point but I think due to the split of the series I think it's going to be 2 distinct story archs. The first (obvs) 1 - 5 and dealing with Odium on Roshar... the second 15 years later Roshar time but it begins to include the rest of the Cosmere and jumping around planets (with surviving people we know and love from 1 - 5 )

Because I believe BS has said that all the Cosmere works will slowly perculate into 1 finale and I reckon 5 - 10 of SA won't be the Finale but will certainly lead to it and the characters leading to the Mistborn Space opera thingy (which also includes Hoid as a large part I think)

Then again I could be wrong.

[Hischier]

4 hours ago, DeployParachute said:

This.  This is why I gave the book a 7/10, although I probably felt depressed for very different reasons than you.  Overall, i think the actual prose of the book is some of the best that Brandon has ever done.  I'm very proud to see his major growth and improvement in this regard.  But, as others have noted, the narrative felt very overwhelmed at times, bogged down by too many things going on, and from too many different perspectives.  It also feels like a lot of the mystery has gone out of the story at this point.  Now that Odium has a face, a voice, a character, it feels less threatening than it once did.  I also thing the lengthy amount of time spent in Shadesmar hurt a lot of the mystery as well.  You definitely came away from that feeling as though the overall cosmere plot line is bleeding in heavily.  I also don't know how much plugging Vivenna into the storyline added to it.  The cameo's are getting to be a bit too much.  I know that some elements and characters from Warbreaker were originally created with SA in mind, but it feels like we're starting to lose some of that "separate and distinct" feel for some of the different cosmere works.

 

WoR had me feeling very elated at the end.  OB did not.  And now, because of OB, I don't think I'm going to be able to read or enjoy some of my favorite scenes from WoR for a while now, if ever.

I'll disagree here. I actually think the threat is elevated a good amount. The Voidbringers we saw in WoR weren't that intimidating to me. It almost seemed like it was too easy. In that sense I think the threat is much greater now.  Mr T. is also a much scarier threat. But the sense of mystery is definitely gone. It's a really tough balancing act for Brandon though. He's created some fantastic characters in this series. That shouldn't be a bad thing and it's not, but it does mean that I am more interested in what happens to specific characters than I am about other things going on. It's not ASoI&F, or even close to that, where at times you almost wonder if the looming threat is even really relevant, but to me, Odium showing up almost seems like a distraction in a weird way.  

[Subvisual Haze]

Yeah, Odium felt like a miss to me.  It's hard to feel overly threatened by a guy who bails out of a Skype-chat when Lift unexpectedly appears and later does the cliche "NO THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE!" when the hero does the dramatic thing at the end.  Appearing at the head of his armies in the final battle ultimately made him feel more mundane to me.  I find villains much more threatening when they're an ominous terrifying force of nature with inscrutable thoughts.  Odium feels more Lex Luthor at this point than Sauron.

[Stuperman]

21 hours ago, robardin said:

I agree somewhat that Kaladin's storyline felt irrelevant for the last two parts of Oathbringer, which is very different from the first two Stormlight novels, but I think fit the ending, which at its core is built around Dalinar and Renarin.

The massive battle at Thaylen City was hard to pull off with all the POVs involved, and it was unwieldy and dizzying at points for a first time read-through, but I suspect with re-reads it will feel fine. I certainly can't think of any story line there that would not suffer from being cut.

 

I think that by trying to do too much with the battle of Thaylen City, a lot of really heroic parts fell flat. Lift chasing Honors drop, while important, I didn't really care about when Dalinar was about to go super saiyan, ya know? Venli's internal struggle, definitely cool, but... did it need to happen right then? Idk. Just missed for me. Will probably start a re-read soon

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine]

I think this vote is flawed, there was no 15 out of 10 option.

Holy crap, this is the best book I've ever read, and I've read a lot.

Sure, there are slow parts, but that is all part of building dramatic tension.

Some specific comments to comments:

1 hour ago, Subvisual Haze said:

Yeah, Odium felt like a miss to me.  It's hard to feel overly threatened by a guy who bails out of a Skype-chat when Lift unexpectedly appears and later does the cliche "NO THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE!" when the hero does the dramatic thing at the end.  Appearing at the head of his armies in the final battle ultimately made him feel more mundane to me.  I find villains much more threatening when they're an ominous terrifying force of nature with inscrutable thoughts.  Odium feels more Lex Luthor at this point than Sauron.

This is not the only aspect of Odium shown, we also have the scorching, flaying ever flame version that is a good aspect for an arch villain to have, especially if said arch-villian is still bound in Damnation. The visionary chats with Odium were somewhat reminiscent of Ishamael pretending to be the dark one in the WoT, though while less than terryfying, he was still trying to subtly manipulate his chosen champion into a position where he would break when he wanted him to. I wasn't a big fan of the Nohadon shopping trip vision, but he was attempting to undercut a figure of symbolic importance in Dalinar's life with a silly watered down version of the ideal. The interesting thing (I thought) to note was that in visions with Venli he appeared as a Singer, in visions with Dalinar he appeared as a Shin man, but he always retained a golden sceptre.

There were 4 moments in this book where I was so overcome with emotion that I actually cried.

Spoiler

When Kaladin found out he had a little brother, and he said that he promises he will protect him.

When Wit continues the story about the girl who looked up, and points out the difference between the 2 different versions of Shallan, and says the thing that defines the important one is that this version stood up.

When, after failing bridge 4, Teft says his 3rd ideal.

And, the biggest one of all, when Jasnah spares Renarin's life. Holy crap, that whole scene was so powerful. The creepy exit of Renarin, the scene of him sitting, watching in terror as the vision of his dad betraying humanity and becoming Odium's champion plays out in front of him, while above him his corrupted spren hangs damning him in Jasnah's eyes as the traitor. The thing that is so awesome about this scene, is that it's the point on the diagram that went black, like this was the fulcrum on which the fate of the world was balanced, and this act of mercy and love was the thing more than anything that caused Odiums plans to unravel. Freaking amazing.

I am having a hard time re-entering normal life, thank god for the Audio book narrated by Michael Kramer and Kate Reading. I can do some semblance of work as I go through this amazing book a second time.

 

I know that part 5 has been getting kind of a bad rap, but this was setting the stage for:

Spoiler

The amazing chapter Unity. Kaladin, physically hurting because he can't help Dalinar, Kaladin, Shallan and Adolin seeing the enemy's battle unfold in 2 realms (freaking awesome seeing the thrill and the thunderclasts' manifestations in shadesmar ), and then the moment when Dalinar pulls them together with a perpendicularity of awesomeness. Freaking rad. The only complaint about this otherwise perfect end battle sequence was how often Kaladin got drawn away by the Fused as he tried to protect Dalinar. Total minor complaint, like one grain of rice on the negative side of balance scale while the positive balance scale holds the rock of Gibraltar.

I loved WoK, I thought WoR was twice as good as WoK, and I think Oathbringer is 10x as good as WoR. Leave it to Brandon to break the logarythmic scale. I can't wait for book four, wish I was a Cadmium misting. I would get a cooler full of sandwhiches, made with roast beef, swiss cheese and garnished with Cadmium red paint, and make the 4 years pass in a contented blur while I reread books 1 through 3 at least 20 times in preparation for the mind blowing book 4.

Edited November 21, 2017 by hoiditthroughthegrapevine
Added a bit at the end.

[+Bliev]

@hoiditthroughthegrapevine Yeah I’m with you. Cried at all those same moments!! At work at my desk... and then had to go give my undergrads a test 30 minutes after i finished it, and trolled 17th shard to recover while they sweated and panicked over the exam. So cruel. 

i thought this was one of the best books I’ve read. And I’ve read so many! But then again, I’m a woman of the moment, so a lot of books feel like the best when I’m enmeshed in them.  

 

[Iarwainiel I]

What can I say? Dalinar is my favorite character, so how could this not be my favorite SA volume? Some revelations were what I was expecting, and I was relieved that Brandon handled difficult events in ways that were dramatic but didn't emotionally abuse me as a reader (that's the best I can do to describe it). So many questions were answered (some far earlier than I had anticipated!), yet so many, many more were raised. There will be 10 books and Brandon needs to have enough story to fill them all, so it seemed appropriate to me that not every character will "level up" in every book. Roshar is a big world, and I can't help feeling there are things we haven't even glimpsed yet that will be crucial as the story unfolds. Even apart from his stupendous accomplishment, the emotional conclusion that Dalinar comes to in the end is so fresh, so different from any of the ways we're usually told to deal with blame-shifting, and it Just.Rings.True. After getting the book at the release party, I read pretty much non-stop to finish by Thursday morning when I was back at work, est. 31-32 hours. I want to wait till I've fully rested up before beginning my re-read; when I do, I'm going to be marking pages that mention "redemption," because I think that's the theme of OBR.