[OB] Which death took you most by surprise?

[dantlee]

I'm having a tough time deciding between Eshonai, Graves, Elhokar, and Jezrien. I'd suspected Elhokar might die in the attempt to retake Kholinar since we the preview chapter announcing his romp with Kaladin, so although it hit me like a gut punch (especially just as he was about to become a radiant), it didn't necessarily shock me. Eshonai took me by surprise if only because I assumed she'd be alive for her flashback book, but Brandon did say one of the flashback books could be from a dead character. Jezrien was mind-boggling (I thought Moash was going for the Nightwatcher/Cultivation), but it also lacked emotional weight because we've only had a few very limited interactions with him throughout the series.

Honestly, and I'm not entirely sure why, but Graves might have been the craziest one for me. It just felt so shockingly abrupt and out of nowhere, when he had seemed to be a fairly important figure within the Diagram. 

Which one surprised you the most, and which one hit you the hardest? 

Edited November 18, 2017 by dantlee
Added OB spoiler tag

[PhineasGage]

Definitely Eshonai for me, although all the deaths you mentioned caught me somewhat by surprise - not the fact that Elhokar died, but definitely how it happened.

Eshonai's death was utterly flooring for me. I had convinced myself (somehow) that it was possible she'd live, lose the stormform and go normal Listener and form a Listener rebellion against Odium. I suppose she still could if her soul went to Braize or into the Everstorm, but imo dead people should stay dead. He's already pulled Jasnah out - although that was heavily implied so it wasn't a huge revelation when we saw her return from Shadesmar. 

I think Eshonai's death also threw me because Venli was so convinced she was alive.

[Fifth of Daybreak]

Honestly for me it was Eth. Leave Bridge Four alone!

[Elsvette Mintyfresh]

For me, it was definitely Elhokar. I gasped out loud.

He was just beginning to become likeable and competent. On top of that, he died at the hands of Moash, who he'd barely escaped just a few months earlier. He was about 3 words away from saving himself. And, most appallingly, Kaladin, who had been an unstoppable force mere moments ago, suddenly came down with a nervous breakdown and just sat there and watched! Finally, his son was just snatched away again and the entire city fell. It was a perfect storm of horribleness.

[WhiteLeeopard]

Eshonai was the most surprising.

Elhokar the one to hit me hardest. For the reasons stated above.

[Harbour]

I expected Elhokar to die. He wanted to reclaim Kholinar and be the hero too much to reach these goals and stayed alive. I thought he gonna achieve these goals at least and then die, but BS went even more hardcore.  That moment plus Kaladin crying made me cry too. The most powerfull scene for me, and i find it more powerfull than the last battle of the OB.

I guess among the minor deaths i was surprised the most by Grave's one. I expected him to be at least some sort of Moash nemesis but...

Eshonai is the winner though.

[Tetrisash]

Eshonai was the most surprising for me, but Elhokar was by far the one that hit me hardest. My heart still gives a little twist when I think about it.

[Walin]

Elhokar’s death hit me the hardest. I was just expecting narrative causality to save him, but then he up and died. And Moash looked Kaladin in the eyes after he did it. The whole two pages really shook me, actually; it didn’t seem like it was really Stormlight. I just had the itch to finish Oathbringer as fast as possible to get away from the surreality of it.

By “shook me,” I mean that it made a “the rules have changed” moment, which I really wasn’t expecting and made me wonder who would die next, which was unsettling. However, Elhokar’s death only had emotional impact to me because it wasn’t what he deserved. He had a good arc going and Moash just stabbed it in the eye like it was Sadeas.

[Justin]

I was most emotionally attached to Elhokar's death, but most surprised by the wall guard and Kaladin's Parshendi friends. I fully expected them to skirmish, and the have Kaladin fly in and make everyone buddies, with the Parshendi becoming windrunner squires to Moash. Guess that didn't happen!

[IndigoAjah]

Eshonai.

 

nobody's death has crushed me yet though. But based on MB, we will see one

[Jess]

I'm gonna give an honorable mention to losing Beard, Sah, and Noro all in one fell swoop. Even though they were minor characters, the way that scene unfolded, one dying right after the other, was brutal to read.

For sheer surprise factor, Eshonai.

[Rainier]

I had an inkling of an idea that Teft was somehow Jezrien in the process of becoming a Windrunner, like Nale became a Skybreaker. I'm not sure exactly why, but there was something in his first POV where he mentioned the Desolations, and I stuck to it after that.

I think Jezrien's death definitely hit me the hardest. Elhokar was tragic, but not surprising, all things considered. One of the Heralds being killed permanently by some kind of invested Nightblood-esque blade is definitely ratcheting up the stakes. I can't wait to see how many other Heralds bite the dust in book 4.

[ParadoxicalZen]

Agreed on Eshonai as most surprising, but Elhokar as the one that hits hard the most....

It actually reminded me a lot of late Era 1 Mistborn

[FollowYourMuse]

Ehlokar's hit me especially more because he was in the process of saving his son, and saying the words. But my thoughts were more Moash - no,no, no ..  Don't kill the kid  

I agree that the deaths of Sah and the parshmen Kaladin helped killed by and killing the Wall guard was the most wrenching.

Eshonai I was on the 50/50 chance when she fell into the Chasm. and had already wondered where her arc would go, Venli was a better enemy, and I wanted Rlain to find and save the original Listeners. 

Jezrian was the biggest shock, and not just sent back but gone. More for the ramification on plot and story, its a game changer. 

 

 

[Wolfbeckett]

16 hours ago, FollowYourMuse said:

Jezrian was the biggest shock, and not just sent back but gone. More for the ramification on plot and story, its a game changer. 

 

 

I'm not sure "gone" is the right word.  Based on the descriptions of what happened with the knife Moash used, the impression I got was more along the lines of what Dalinar did to that Unmade at the end.  It seemed to me like they somehow captured Jezrian's soul instead of outright destroying it.  If that be the case then it still leaves the possibility that it could be released to rejoin the Oathpact again at a later date.

[AerionBFII]

Moash's death.

AS IN WHY ISN'T HE DEAD!?!?!?!

[FollowYourMuse]

5 hours ago, Wolfbeckett said:

I'm not sure "gone" is the right word.  Based on the descriptions of what happened with the knife Moash used, the impression I got was more along the lines of what Dalinar did to that Unmade at the end.  It seemed to me like they somehow captured Jezrian's soul instead of outright destroying it.  If that be the case then it still leaves the possibility that it could be released to rejoin the Oathpact again at a later date.

True. 

[Seonid]

2 hours ago, AerionBFII said:

Moash's death.

AS IN WHY ISN'T HE DEAD!?!?!?!

I'm pretty sure he is.  He became a Fused, which kills the host - as far as we know.  If he's still alive,  then something weird is going on.

[WhiteLeeopard]

12 minutes ago, Seonid said:

I'm pretty sure he is.  He became a Fused, which kills the host - as far as we know.  If he's still alive,  then something weird is going on.

He didn't become a Fused. He just became best bro of the Fused.

If Jezrien's death doesn't make all the Heralds get off their butts to join the fray then nothing will. Of course if they are going to make the same choice as Nale they can keep on been on vacation .

[Seonid]

24 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

He didn't become a Fused. He just became best bro of the Fused.

Here's the relevant bit from the last viewpoint from Moash: 

Quote

Moash reached for it [the Honorblade], hesitant,  and Leshwi hummed a warning rhythm. "If you take it,  you die. Moash will be no more."

"Moash's world is no more," he said,  taking the blade by the hilt. "He might as well join it in the tomb."

And then he becomes Vyre, He Who Quiets, in a process that seems exactly like what the Parshendi survivors go through.  If there's another way to read this, I'm all ears.  But it seems unambiguous to me that Moash has been replaced.

[WhiteLeeopard]

Just now, Seonid said:

Here's the relevant bit from the last viewpoint from Moash: 

And then he becomes Vyre, He Who Quiets, in a process that seems exactly like what the Parshendi survivors go through.  If there's another way to read this, I'm all ears.  But it seems unambiguous to me that Moash has been replaced.

In this particular case I took it as metaphorical. At the very least a piece of Moash remains. Of course I could be wrong, I'd been reading for a long time by the time I reached that part.

[ScavellTane]

If he was Fused, he wouldn't need the blade. If the Fused could use the blade, I don't think they would have given it to him.

[Zalocx]

I'm 101% convinced that Vyre is a metaphorical change. The act of making a Fused seems to require a dead Dawnsinger cognitive shadow to inhabit the body of a parshman the way they normally bind spren. Humans can't bind spren that way because they don't have gemhearts, bonded spren for surgebinders remain external entities. Even the battle at the end with corrupted Alethi was more like them being influenced rather than permenantly possessed. Since it says they stopped fighting and went back to normal once the Trill was removed.

[She Who Cannot Be Named]

16 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

In this particular case I took it as metaphorical. At the very least a piece of Moash remains. Of course I could be wrong, I'd been reading for a long time by the time I reached that part.

Granted, it was veeeeery late when I read it, but I kind of interpreted it as Moash becoming something... more. Not exactly a Fused, more like a new (as in not an old soul) Fused-Human hybrid. With Renarin bonding a Voidspren and still being on Honour's/Humanity's side, one of the Unmade trying to change sides, and a lot of Skybreakers on Odiums side (Not sure where to put Malata and Taravangian - imho the scales are shifting to Odium's side there) the whole system got jumbled up. 

To sum it up, I'd rather go with Moash/Vyre being a new hybrid form, without Moash dead/completely gone.

 

@ original topic: Elhokar's death as a whole package. I really had high hopes for him :-(

 

[deadlyDomino]

Eshonai's death definitely shocked me the most, because I had the (probably misremembered) idea in my head that there was a WoB on book 4 or 5 having Eshonai as the flashback character. Can't find it now though