Battle in the Warcamps: Shen Reveals, Kaladin Flies, Amaram Squeals, and Renarin Dies

[Confused]

My first post! I began reading this forum when Tor posted the last set of preview chapters…

 

I believe WoR climaxes with an invasion by the Listeners of the Alethi warcamps. Navani’s epigraphic Journal entries presage this disaster. The Listeners come in stormform, following a highstorm, and are joined by the Parshmen in camp. “Sixty Two Days, Death Follows” may have been a message that Dalinar received (purposefully or accidentally) stating the date the Listeners intended their attack. In fact, I think WoR’s entire narrative occurs over less than a three-month period, culminating in this battle. (And the much-anticipated Szeth vs. Kaladin fight won’t occur until Szeth’s book…)

 

The Tor preface to the preview chapters states Dalinar and his armies are out on the Shattered Plains seeking the Listeners. The Listeners will use Dalinar’s absence to attack the Alethi home base. “The Ones Left Behind” in the camps are the women and children; merchants and other civilians (including Navani, Renarin, Shallan, and maybe Elkhoar if he didn't accompany Dalinar); the Parshmen (ouch!); the Bridgemen Battalion, and some troops from the other camps the Highprinces left behind as minders but not fighters. Amaram and his army will also stay, since they are inexperienced at combat on the Shattered Plains, and Dalinar will want some fighters in the camps besides the nascent Bridgemen Battalion.

 

Shen Reveals

 

Shen, I believe, is a Listeners spy. He knows when the attack will come. But honor will be returned for honor: Kaladin’s treatment of Shen and his respect for the Listeners will lead Shen to warn Kaladin that the attack is imminent. That will give Kaladin just enough time to organize the barest defense. Shen thus saves Kaladin’s life and many others. The “Glimpses” that Tor has released include someone (probably Kaladin) viewing the oncoming highstorm and seeing figures behind the front wall – the Listeners in stormform.

 

Kaladin Flies

 

With the outcome desperate, Kaladin will state the Third Windrunner ideal. This may also be when he first publicly reveals himself as a KR. The Third Ideal will combine the Windrunner leadership and protection attributes into something like “I will lead the defense of the defenseless,” only more elegantly stated.

 

Because Kaladin will need a way to coordinate the defense of the warcamps, and because the battle occurs during a highstorm, I believe the Third Ideal will enable Kaladin to become a Windrunner in fact: he will fly from one battle scene to the next, organizing the resistance and fighting where he is most needed.

 

Amaram Squeals:

 

Amaram’s troops will be routed. We know they are poorly trained and undisciplined. Amaram himself will attract a swarm of Listeners, since he is a shardbearer. He will be beaten down, and Kaladin will come to rescue him.

 

There is a thread entitled “Kaladin betrays Dalinar” that discusses the following epigraph (one of the “dying statements”) from WoK:

 

“All is withdrawn for me. I stand against the one who saved my life. I protect the one who killed my promises. I raise my hand. The storm responds.”

 

I believe this statement instead refers to Kaladin standing against Shen (who warned him of the attack) and rescuing Amaram. However Amaram acquired his shards, they cannot be allowed to fall into Listener hands. But Kaladin won’t fight Shen, so he raises his hand to fly up into the storm, carrying Amaram (and his heavy shards) to safety. Amaram may die from his wounds, after having fought honorably to defend the camps, thereby redeeming himself (at least in part…)

 

Renarin Dies:

 

With sincere condolences to FeatherWriter, I believe Renarin will die during this battle. He will sacrifice himself to protect his aunt and the other Kholin civilians. Kaladin will arrive just too late to save him (perhaps because he first tried to save Amaram?).

 

If Renarin is an incipient KR, as many suspect, to me he most resembles Order 9 – Taln’s order – “dependable/resourceful” – always there for his father and brother, doing whatever needs to be done. Kalak states in the Prelude that Taln “had a tendency to choose seemingly hopeless fights and win them. He also had a tendency to die in the process.” That will be Renarin’s fate. Because the essence of Order 9 is talus, with soulcasting properties of rock and stone, I think he may collapse a wall or something similar as his dying contribution to the fight, using his shardblade to do so, and taking many Listeners with him.

 

As others have suggested. the spren Renarin will see “that others will not see” (WoB) is a death spren. Kaladin’s late arrival will remind him of Tien’s death – once again unable to save someone he has grown to care for. (I believe that prior to this battle Renarin and Kaladin will have become friends and sparring partners.) Renarin’s death will exacerbate Adolin’s harsh feelings toward Kaladin.

 

Dalinar may return from his futile hunt in time to end the battle. He will find Renarin dead and bloodied. That is when he will become a Bondsmith (from the Glimpses).

 

And Shallan Will Lightweave

 

Shallan may state her Second Ideal during the battle (assuming she utters the First sometime earlier). Given her attributes of creativity and honesty, it will be something like “I will illuminate the truth.” I can see her creating illusions to help the Alethi,  culminating in a “Fifth Element” moment when she lights up the entire warcamp after the highstorm has darkened it. It’s possible the Listeners in stormform are affected by too bright light. I don’t see her summoning her shardblade, though, because where would she have learned to wield it?

 

Final Predictions:

 

Book 3, Szeth’s book, will begin with Sadeas and his allies maligning Kaladin as an untrustworthy and traitorous KR. They cannot allow his growing fame and power to continue unabated. He undermines everything Sadeas wants to accomplish. They will call him “traitor” because of his prior knowledge of the attack, which could only have been obtained from the Listeners (which it was). The fact that Kaladin’s actions saved many will be compared with the massive death and destruction the attack caused, including Dalinar’s own son.

 

Shallan, on the other hand, may come to care for Kaladin, beginning in WoR. These initial feelings may only be respect and admiration, but they may grow over time. Until Kaladin saves Dalinar’s (and possibly Adolin’s) life while fighting Szeth, Adolin may begin to feel downright “odious” towards Kaladin…

 

Thoughts?

[The Count he/him]

You know, this is all pretty plausible. +1 to you.

The only bit I really disagree with is Szeth vs Kaladin being delayed.

Both men are on the cover so I think a confrontation is inevitable.

[EvilKetchupCow he/him]

Just so you know 62 days is 1 month 2 week and 2 days on Roshar.

Edited February 22, 2014 by EvilKetchupCow

[Natans he/him]

Well, I agree with tha Parshendi attack I think that plenty of people will dir but n the ened someone (Dalinar, Shallan, Renarin, etc) save day.  And when everything are fine Szeth arrives =)

 

In some of the non-spoiller review some said that would be Bang-BANG- BANG - Calm down - ULTRA BANG.

 

My guess is that the ultra bang will be Szeth in the end after everyone are thinking that things are cool =)

[Swimmingly he/him]

Um... By "respect", you don't mean cutting up their dead bodies and wearing them as armour, right? Cause that is not only incredibly disrespectful, but gross and also a violation of a major taboo in Listener culture.

[Aminar]

I have one issue with this. We know that Dalinar is going to push into the plains, virtually abandoning the warcamps. The climax will probably be there.

[shinintendo]

I think the book is more about Shallan past and present.

Her role will much more prominent than what you mentioned.

by Peter words ("I bring greetings from the future!" thread) and Reflections of Radiance

there will be something explosive revealed about her in this book.

[Chrono she/her]

This would be an amazing plot story. However, I'm planning something even more ridiculously awesome going on, because come on, this is Brandon.

 

And I don't want Renarin to die. The guy's at least got to get some cool character development before he kicks the bucket.

[Moogle]

I particularly enjoyed the idea of Shallan lighting up the entire camp. Don't know why. This seems plausible, though I highly disagree that the Parshendi would ever attack an undefended camp. It's not in line with their style of honor.

 

This would be an amazing plot story. However, I'm planning something even more ridiculously awesome going on, because come on, this is Brandon.

 

And I don't want Renarin to die. The guy's at least got to get some cool character development before he kicks the bucket.

 

Warbreaker spoilers:

Ah, just like Parlin.

Edited February 22, 2014 by Moogle

[Confused]

Thanks, all, for your comments! Responses:

 

1. The Count and Natans: On reflection, and re-reading Alice Arneson's "Beta-Reading..." posting, you both  are probably right. I didn't see Szeth attacking Dalinar when Dalinar was surrounded by his army out on the Shattered Plains. But in view of the "Bang, BANG, ULTRA-BANG" ending that Alice (and Natans) described, Szeth probably goes after Dalinar immediately after the Battle at the Warcamps, when Dalinar, Kaladin and the Bridgemen Bodyguard are all exhausted from the fighting. If Szeth has watched the Battle, he will know that Kalandin can surgebind and will be prepared for him.

 

Alice made the following comment in her  "Reflections" posting

 

"(::stunned silence::
(Seriously. It took me several days to find anything coherent to say about this scene.)
Please tell me it’s not true. I don’t know what I dare hope for; it won’t surprise me if it’s true, but I still want it not to be. I’m trying not to hope anything in particular, but this is tough."

 

Although her comments were probably not in order, this sounds like an end-of-book comment. While we know that neither Dalinar nor Kaladin will die in WoR, perhaps before Szeth is stopped one of them becomes seriously wounded by his shardblade and loses the use of part of his body.

 

2. EvilKetchupCow: First, great name! I'm just confused...Second, thanks for mentioning this. I recalled that there are 500 days in a Rosharian year, but didn't know that there are only 10 months. It doesn't change the timeline, just my characterization of it.

 

3. Swimmingly: Yes, Kaladin began without understanding Parshendi honor and disrespected them and their culture. Shen was outraged to the core by what Kaladin did. (Shen's response was one reason that I think he's a spy - if a normal Parshman were souless, as Eshonai says, he might not have had that reaction.) But the Battle of the Tower changed Kaladin's attitude and understanding of the Parshendi. He came to respect them. As a result, Shen has become more integrated into Bridge 4, as evidenced by Rock's affection toward him at one of the evening cookouts. He may even know that Kaladin does not want to fight the Parshendi because of his respect for them. I do think in turn Shen has come to appreciate and respect Kaladin and Bridge 4.

 

4. Aminar: I disagree. First, it makes military sense to attack your enemy's weakly-defended base camp, stripping them of the ability to resupply and perhaps forcing them out of your territory completely. Why meet the Alethi army head-on when you are the numerically inferior force? Second, as Shinintendo points out, Shallan is the central figure of WoR. She must have a major role in the battle. She would not have accompanied Dalinar's expedition, and I can't imagine Adolin, as sexist as Alethi men seem to be, to permit his betrothed to join them. The battle must be at the warcamps for her to participate.

 

5. Shinintendo: Also a great name! I agree with you. Perhaps my posting didn't adequately express my feelings on this, but I think Shallan's lightweaving will preserve the Alethi defense until Dalinar and his army return. Alice Arneson's comment in her "Reflictions" piece - "As expected, the Parshendi receive some… illumination" - to me confirms that Shallan's role in the battle is critical. The stress of the battle will force her to state the Second Ideal and use her enhanced powers to blunt the attack. That's what happened to Kaladin at the Tower battle, and I expect to see the same happen with Shallan here.

 

Thanks again, everybody!

[EvilKetchupCow he/him]

It is noted that the parshmen also care about there dead and don't like others touching them. So this might not point to shen being a spy.

[The Mad Reader she/her]

I think it is very unlikely that Shen would forgive Kaladin for disrespecting the dead in such a serious way. Kaladin knew what he was doing when he did it- if I recall correctly, Kaladin thought of the idea of wearing carapace armor after seeing how Shen reacted to him moving parshendi bodies. I don't think any of us would easily forgive someone for cutting up and wearing dead bodies.

And I agree with EvilKetchupCow about all parshmen caring about their dead, rather than it being anything unusual about Shen. 

[FeatherWriter she/her]

*reading OP* 

 

"Interesting... that's a cool way to think of that... Hmm... Interesting... OH HARMONY NO, NEVER NOT EVER IN A MILLION YEARS... and I suppose that seems reasonable."

 

On one hand though, I'm glad that I have become famous enough that people feel the need to apologize when they suggest that terrible things might happen to Renarin. *cuddles him protectively and hisses at all who draw near*

[Gloom he/him]

Yes, I can imagine that in the battle scene where Brandon kills Renarin in some book at some time he will type "(sorry Featherwriter)" right after it.

[FeatherWriter she/her]

I will consider any and all Kholin deaths to be an unnecessary attack upon my person and therefore APOLOGY NOT ACCEPTED. Especially darling Renarin. Nope, nope, nope. Not happening. And I will be deeply in denial if it does happen.

[Natans he/him]

The way i see things soon Brandon will make a cameo o Lady Feather as a brightlady witn feather like adorns looking oddly lustfu...intensely =)

 

After all the rumor are that he already done a homage to 17th Shard in Allow of Law =)

[Cromptj he/him]

I'm praying for an Adolin death/injury. Does that require an apology Feather?

[FeatherWriter she/her]

YES. YES IT DOES. *pulls Adolin into protective embrace as well* NO DEAD KHOLINS 2014. NO DEAD KHOLINS. Adolin is very much amongst my favorites as well, and I cannot abide harm being done to him!

 

And Natans, if I ever got a cameo in a Branderson novel, ESPECIALLY ONE THAT MEETS RENARIN, I would probably die immediately and never recover.

[Swimmingly he/him]

I can imagine a pair of very confused and vaguely embarrassed Kholins trying to squirm out of Feather's arms...

[EvilKetchupCow he/him]

I don't think you can recover from death. There are of course stories but no real proof.

[Binnut he/him]

YES. YES IT DOES. *pulls Adolin into protective embrace as well* NO DEAD KHOLINS 2014. NO DEAD KHOLINS. Adolin is very much amongst my favorites as well, and I cannot abide harm being done to him!

 

And Natans, if I ever got a cameo in a Branderson novel, ESPECIALLY ONE THAT MEETS RENARIN, I would probably die immediately and never recover.

 

Death is usually not something anyone recovers from but if anyone can its probably you!

[WeiryWriter he/him]

Death is usually not something anyone recovers from but if anyone can its probably you!

 

it happens quite often on Nalthis.

[FeatherWriter she/her]

What, you guys couldn't tell with a name like "Featherwriter" that I've been Returned this whole time?

[Yalb]

I think they want us to belive that Renarin dies! If anything he will be reborn. There have been a few glimpses hinting at one of the brothers dieing. Why would they give away such a HUGE spoiler in a few snipets. This is misdirection my friends! Well played tor...well played.

[angryman13]

i kinda want to see Renarin die page 2 just to see feathers reaction   but Brandon knows there are better characters to kill so the chances of him dying are minimal

(in case anyone is wondering the better characters to kill are Nappa and inverse/retarded Vegeta)

 

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