[OB] Oathbringer chapters 25-27

[Daishi5]

The story about the girl and the wall feels like it tells us something important about the past. 

I think maybe when the first humans came, and the girl is the first person to bond with a spren.  "Stealing" the ability to bond from the listeners.  We know they feel betrayed by the spren.

I also just keep feeling that the Humans are really not good people, especially when compared with the listeners.  The blackthorn chapter is a great example.

[Ryder]

Another minor thing I noticed: Kaladin was able to send a glyph, so he must have been able to sneak back the spanreed and send a message without the parshendi or the yellow spren noticing.

[Pagerunner he/him]

Shallan's story is spooky. I couldn't help but think of Urithiru when she spoke of a massive structrure, and places that had never seen the sun, since she had just made those observations about the city itself. The white hair... why did she do that? It doesn't seem to indicate passage of time, since Shallan is still calling the girl a "girl." Is this connected to the drawings she made after the Wind's Pleasure was destroyed, where she drew some of the survivors reaching the land?

I don't think the copycat killer is an Unmade. (Unless you subscribe to Taravangian's terminology, where he seems to cast a broader net. I'm referring to the nine highest Splinters of Odium.) The inhumanity of the thing made me think of the Ten Deaths, and maybe this is a Flesh analogue to the Midnight Essence's Smoke. Something of Odium, still... but we still have yet to figure out how the Midnight Essence ties into Odium, since the ancient Radiants did not call them Voidbringers. And the broader question, of what the Radiants were fighting against at the time of the Recreance (remember, the Feverstone Keep vision had them returning from the front lines). So, yes, this does seem like something from Odium. But it seems a little small-scale for one of the nine Unmade.

Involuntary crazy drawings are making me think of Renarin's actions during the highstorms. I think it's important to note that she drew them before finding out the truth about her brother's death. Now, that I could see as something from an Unmade, the same way the Thrill and the Death Rattles happen to people.

Musicspren for Ryshadium. I agree with Dalinar, that doesn't make much sense. Best connection I can come up with is how horses always move at a rhythm, like a canter or a gallop. But that's really stretching it.

Dalinar hears a Rhythm again. This is a lot stronger of an indication than when Eshonai seems to perceive Gavilar speaking to a rhythm.

And no Kaladin chapter. Sad. Brandon's building up for a big reveal about the Listener motives, like why they've assembled in Marat. That seems like a good Part 1 kicker, so I'm not expecting too much from Kaladin next week, either. Chapter 33 will be where it all breaks open.

[Aminar]

Guys. Guess who likes to find out what's inside stuff? 

Balat. Can Balat please be a Dustbringer? 

[Blacksmithki]

2 minutes ago, Ryder said:

Another minor thing I noticed: Kaladin was able to send a glyph, so he must have been able to sneak back the spanreed and send a message without the parshendi or the yellow spren noticing.

Or, they trust him after he helped them so much, and he just sent time, not some complex message that could be betraying them because they can't read.

[redbishop]

Quote

“Dustbringer,” Pattern said. “Her spren… mmm… they like to break what is around them. They want to know what is inside.”

Can I nominate toddlerspren as the interim name for the Dustbringer Order's spren?

[PunSpren he/him]

Still reading! first thought is Amian !!!! whoo 

[redbishop]

Oh, and also, the spanreeds going dark only makes sense if they are wiping people out or somehow breaking the entanglement between spanreeds.  I'm betting on the latter.

[What's a Seawolf?]

2 minutes ago, Aminar said:

Guys. Guess who likes to find out what's inside stuff? 

Balat. Can Balat please be a Dustbringer? 

Oh please yes.

Two Dustbringers showing up in one book would be great as well, if only to showcase that members of the same order can be vastly different in goals and methods.

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

Thoughts:

*Shallans theatre is probably a metaphor for something. I can't figure out exactly what though.

*And the Unmade is basically confirmed. I think this is one of the non-sentient ones. It's behavior seems pretty basic. It looks storming creepy though. Also, why did it watch the theatre? And how did it get into Urithiru in the first place. It kind of draws parallells to the basilisk in Harry Potter, with the "hiding in walls and ambushing people" behavior.

*I like the mentions of the Highprinces in Dalinars flashback. We learned more about Sebarial and Ruthar, and got Vamahs forename.

*Dalinar was a total addict to the Thrill. The guy he fought was a douchebag as well though. 

*I kind of like Gavilar in these chapters. Hope we get more on Evi later. Also, I think this is the final flashback in Part 1.

*Malata has something against the Alethi. Huh. 

*Amaram appears! Yay! I love the guy, and this appearance makes me think that he tries to be honorable because it is the right thing to do. Other might disagree, but I do think that he will stand trial if both he and Dalinar beat the Desolation, and survive. Adolins dislike toward him is interesting, but I guess it has to do with his loyalty toward Kaladin. 

[the_archduke]

Sadeas's heir was his nephew.  I was right in arguing Ialai couldn't inherit.  Amaram as highprince-regent is perfect.  Is Ialai associated with the Sons of Honor?  Is that why Mraize was investigating her?  

 

Adolin drops a bomb on Shalladin without even meaning to.  She knows Kaladin killed her brother.  I think she can forgive him, but how could she ever love him.  Shalladin just got its eyes burned out.

I don't think we saw a kandra.  Perhaps the Unmade operates under similar principles like how Shallan and Hoid can both lightweave but from different investiture.  

 

I loved Gavilar's line “Jasnah? What would she do with Shards? No, no. You—”

 

What use indeed.  I think we will see her with blade and plate later in the book.

 

[Steeldancer he/him]

Has anyone read the 5 kingdoms? 

I'm thinking the Lightweavers used to do Dazzle Shows. 

[Leyrann]

3 minutes ago, the_archduke said:

Sadeas's heir was his nephew.  I was right in arguing Ialai couldn't inherit.  Amaram as highprince-regent is perfect.  Is Ialai associated with the Sons of Honor?  Is that why Mraize was investigating her?  

 

Adolin drops a bomb on Shalladin without even meaning to.  She knows Kaladin killed her brother.  I think she can forgive him, but how could she ever love him.  Shalladin just got its eyes burned out.

I don't think we saw a kandra.  Perhaps the Unmade operates under similar principles like how Shallan and Hoid can both lightweave but from different investiture.  

 

I loved Gavilar's line “Jasnah? What would she do with Shards? No, no. You—”

 

What use indeed.  I think we will see her with blade and plate later in the book.

 

She has blade from her spren, at least, and for plate we don't yet know how it works. I think they went to Elhokar in the end though, wouldn't they? Or does he use Gavilar's old stuff?

[Hyarmenatan]

17 minutes ago, Sliverofnone said:

Anyone else get Ruin vibes from Dalinar's battle scene?

I thought about the coloss rage. Dalinar certainly acted like coloss, killing his own people in blind rage and urge to kill. Thrill is a way for Odium to affect people and make them commit atrocities. I wonder whether there is a 'line' which, once crossed, cannot be crossed back, and you stay in a mindless, full of rage state, forever. Maybe that's what a Vondbinding actually is?  

[dantlee]

Well I'm glad that our "the copycat killer is an unmade" theory was actually right! I feel like the 17th shard has become unmade-paranoid lol, seeing ancient, evil spren as the answer to every mystery. 

On another note, I'm surprised at how quickly Shallan learned that Kaladin killed her brother - I expected this to become clearer when she learned more about Helaran via Mraize, but I'm glad that we don't have to waste dozens more chapters of Shallan hating Amaram for the wrong reason. 

Also, no wonder Hoid has liked Shallan for such a long time - she's an even better storyteller than he is! 

[Sliverofnone]

2 minutes ago, Leyrann said:

She has blade from her spren, at least, and for plate we don't yet know how it works. I think they went to Elhokar in the end though, wouldn't they? Or does he use Gavilar's old stuff?

I believe that Elhokar has two sets. He lends one set out for training/dueling lighteyes.

 

[dantlee]

Are we absolutely sure Adolin didn't intentionally cockblock his rival by dropping that knowledge bomb on Shallan?  

[Agent34]

Spoiler

BRANDON SANDERSON (GOODREADS)

Hoid did not make the paintings. The goal of those paintings—and this is spoilery, by the way—the paintings are actually what the text implies that they are. They are abstract paintings which Lightsong, having a touch of the divine, is able to see and read into things that aren't necessarily there.

Beyond that, art is a magical thing in the world of Warbreaker. When an artist creates a work of art, part of the artist's soul ends up in the artwork. Someone who has many breaths and who's Returned like Lightsong has the inherent ability to see into the art and perceive that. So Lightsong can interpret correctly an abstract piece, based on what the artist is trying to convey, in a way that a normal person couldn't.

I was not trying to make the artists anyone specifically important. In the case of those paintings, they are wonderful artists — I think they are two separate artists, if I'm thinking of the two paintings that you're indicating. As Lightsong has a splinter of divine nature inside him, he is able to interpret the paintings—to foresee, using them, and to see into the soul of the person who made them.

#2

With this in mind, do you think a certain grumpy ardent could interpret Shallan's insanity art?

 

[king of nowhere]

am I the only one who thinks adolin was right in telling shallan? she was going to learn anyway, and sooner is better than later. I especially don't like the idea of letting a person be misled on something like this.

[Daishi5]

5 minutes ago, dantlee said:

Are we absolutely sure Adolin didn't intentionally cockblock his rival by dropping that knowledge bomb on Shallan?  

Adolin is just REALLY bad at intrigue.  Which is going to be a big problem for him, with even Amaram agreeing to be tried for murder by Dalinar, Adolin will have to be punished when he lets his secret out.

[Patrick Star]

2 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

am I the only one who thinks adolin was right in telling shallan? she was going to learn anyway, and sooner is better than later. I especially don't like the idea of letting a person be misled on something like this.

I'm with you.  Especially since Adolin doesn't know about Shallan's split personality/insanity thing going on, and since this same issue also caused a ton of problems in the last book, he was definitely right to throw it out there once he noticed that Shallan didn't know.

[SpeakoftheDeval]

47 minutes ago, Steeldancer said:

I think that lightweavers used to do massive shows... like what Shallan does, but in a massive scale. 

I have an image in my head of some of the orders having a designated playwright who writes plays that they pay the lightweavers to put on to help surgebinders realise the orders of their ideals, kinda like a formalized Hoid with Kaladin. But then imagine the lightweavers refusing to put on certain plays because it went against the spirit of their own order.

Also another thought I had was that when Shallan mentioned that she thought Radiant should be at the discussions table that foreshadows her making an illusion entirely of stormlight and giving it a voice and everything and then it slowly develops its own identity and sentience because of all the investiture needed to maintain it and people seeing it as its own entity giving it its own cognitive form. I think this would be really cool but unless the resulting being could be called a spren and stay in one of the spren cities in the CR this is unlikely as old lightweavers would prolly have done something like it and that would have been mentioned. Just a random musing

[dantlee]

Just now, Daishi5 said:

Adolin is just REALLY bad at intrigue.  Which is going to be a big problem for him, with even Amaram agreeing to be tried for murder by Dalinar, Adolin will have to be punished when he lets his secret out.

I tend to agree with the theory that Adolin will end up being exiled by Dalinar once the secret gets out; not sure how I feel about the concurrent theory that Adolin will go on an odyssey to revive his blade while in exile, but I do think the exile part is almost a given based on what we know of Alethi laws and Dalinar's moral code. 

[Hyarmenatan]

Entire story in the theatre and girl climbing is a 'human race memory' of the time humans arrived from Yolen / Ashyn / wherever to Roshar system. The wall is just a mountains around Shinovar, and the village where a girl lived was a Shinovar itself. Behind the wall there was a 'stormlight' - a way of saying that the mountains shielded humans from highstorms. It was all set up (like someone else theorized) by a Cultivation as a way to protect people not acustomed to the local forms of life.

Minor addition : possibly, the people were allowed on Roshar by Listeners only as long as they stay in Shinovar, and Listeners created a control system / watch on the rim to keep humans there. 

So say we all.  

[marsoupial they/them]

I'm fairly certain Malata's not necessarily malicious or bad, just kind of racist. Abrasive, as one could expect a Releaser to be. But she claims to have a spren, and Pattern seemed to confirm that, so that's cool. 

Now, my real concern is with Shallan. It was interesting to put the scene with Dalinar considering killing Gavilar before the scene where Shallan uncovers something dark about herself. Our characters seem to be loosening, their worlds turning on their heads.

Shallan is a conundrum. I know how it feels to feel like your world is coming apart, and to stuff that down... it's bad. In her case, on a much larger scale.