[OB] True Spren

[Catladyman]

@Hafrigado I have, and I understand that Ruin, as the embodiment of entropy is necessary for ANY sort of change, so the negativity might be more due to Ati than to Ruin. However, I am not sure if I can see Brandon naming a spren after a known Shard that has no association with the world in question.

[Nathrangking he/him]

reduction spren/ change spren/ manipulation spren/ matter spren/ conversion spren?

Edited September 6, 2017 by Nathrangking

[Hafrigado]

6 minutes ago, Nathrangking said:

reduction spren/ change spren/ manipulation spren/ matter spren?

According to Hasina, all Spren are Change Spren. (But what does she know)

 

11 minutes ago, Catladyman said:

@Hafrigado I have, and I understand that Ruin, as the embodiment of entropy is necessary for ANY sort of change, so the negativity might be more due to Ati than to Ruin. However, I am not sure if I can see Brandon naming a spren after a known Shard that has no association with the world in question.

Alright, fair enough. Then we have rotspren (show up around rotting or infected things, but I think these are subspren) and decayspren ( Syl says something about how the apothecary guy looks like a decayspren in disguise). Maybe each true Spren has a subspren cousin (like honor and wind Spren).

[Nathrangking he/him]

3 minutes ago, Hafrigado said:

According to Hasina, all Spren are Change Spren. (But what does she know)

From a realamatic theory perspective she's correct, but if there were a spren representing physical change rather than simply being defined as an addition of something to the world that had not originally been present.

[Calderis he/him]

Inkspren are named for scholarship I believe and they represent logic. 

If companionspren are truly a thing, I think logicspren will be the inkspren's lesser cousin. 

[Hafrigado]

1 minute ago, Calderis said:

Inkspren are named for scholarship I believe and they represent logic. 

If companionspren are truly a thing, I think logicspren will be the inkspren's lesser cousin. 

Can we please call them cousinspren? It lets me think of Lopen's cousins as forces of nature.

[Catladyman]

I have to assume that companion spren (cousin spren) are an actual in-world phenomenon. We have already seen windspren with Kaladin, creationspren with Shallan, and lifespren with Lift.

Going along with that idea, I like the idea of decayspren bonding with Dustbringers, with rotspen as the cousinspren. However, aren't decay and rot essentially the same thing? In the other cases we have seen, associated types aren't really synonymous. 

What about faithspren as a spren type? If it were the true spren for the Willshapers, it would make sense how closely the Vorin church monitors Soulcasting. It would also be interesting to see an order of KR emerge from within Vorinism.

Edited September 6, 2017 by Catladyman

[Ansalem]

The sapient spren name themselves. Humans may call them something different, though. See Cryptics not liking the name liespren. There's no real reason they need to represent some human-centric concept. Cultivationspren are called that because they name themselves that. Humans may not choose that name for them, they could just as easily name them something like growthspren or vinespren or something less human-centric like that.

That being the case, I suspect humans would probably call the Truthwatcher spren lightspren. That's what I would call them if I saw one. But they may call themselves something else, such as truthspren. Appearing as light due to the concept of truth being a light cast upon the darkness of ignorance. Plus the obvious connection to the surge of Illumination, the name Truthwatcher, and Renarin claiming that he "sees" all having some connection to either truth or light (or both). Not sure how the surge of Progression ties into that, but then I'm not sure how Wyndle represents Abrasion, either.

So my bet for the Truthwatcher spren's name is either truthspren or lightspren.

Also, I agree with @Calderis that inkspren are tied to scholarship and their subspren would be logicspren.

[Lightspine]

On the discussion of cousin spren, I noticed angerspren appear similarly to the Parshendi as stormspren. Could they be cousins? Also, that would add some mirror imagery: he Windrunners bond honorspren (which represent a sentiment), whose cousins are windspren (which represents a force of nature). Meanwhile, void-form parshendi bond the stormspren, the force of nature, rather than angerspren, the emotional spren.

[Ansalem]

16 minutes ago, Catladyman said:

Going along with that idea, I like the idea of decayspren bonding with Dustbringers, with rotspen as the cousinspren. However, aren't decay and rot essentially the same thing? In the other cases we have seen, associated types aren't really synonymous. 

No, rot is a sub-category of decay. Decay can happen to anything, think stone crumbling over time or metal rusting away. Rot can only happen to organic matter. Food rots, metal does not rot, but they both decay.

[Hafrigado]

2 minutes ago, Ansalem said:

No, rot is a sub-category of decay. Decay can happen to anything, think stone crumbling over time or metal rusting away. Rot can only happen to organic matter. Food rots, metal does not rot, but they both decay.

So we have Rotspren (deterioration caused by bacteria or fungi) and Decayspren (any deterioration)?

[Ansalem]

Just now, Hafrigado said:

So we have Rotspren (deterioration caused by bacteria or fungi) and Decayspren (any deterioration)?

It's feasible at least. I'm not sure I'm sold on the idea myself, just wanted to point out that in terms of definitions, all rot is decay but not all decay is rot.

[Hafrigado]

Maybe this I part of what makes Bondsmiths so special. They are bonded to Spren who would normally be subspren (Stormfather) but aren't. So they're natural forces that people think of as sentient beings (the storms).

[thejopen27 he/him]

On 9/5/2017 at 9:54 PM, Calderis said:

Inkspren are named for scholarship I believe and they represent logic. 

If companionspren are truly a thing, I think logicspren will be the inkspren's lesser cousin. 

I agree, I think Logic Spren are to Ink Spren as Life Spren are to Cultivation Spren, Creation Spren are to Cryptics, and Wind Spren are to Honor Spren. I would guess their real name might be Communication Spren, or Understanding spren? Enlightenment Spren? Knowledge Spren?

For willshapers it might be Diplomacy Spren?

[thejopen27 he/him]

On 9/5/2017 at 11:29 PM, Ansalem said:

It's feasible at least. I'm not sure I'm sold on the idea myself, just wanted to point out that in terms of definitions, all rot is decay but not all decay is rot.

It doesn't matter what they are, just what people perceive them to be. If people perceive different things, then the Spren will be different.

[Ciridae]

Wyndle mentions Keenspren at one point, saying that they are difficult to understand. If they are able to communicate there's a good chance they are one of the missing four unnamed nahel spren. I don't remember where I saw this but I think in a translated version of Edgedancer they were called lamentspren. What order could they belong to?

[+Extesian he/him]

Just to note, inkspren seem to be more about thoughtfulness, consistency and applied logic, rather than scholarship per se

Quote

Q: What kind of qualities attract an inkspren?
A: Inkspren do not like how variable humans are. It’s a thing out of honor, and they like people who are logical and willing to think about their lives and not react as much by instinct.
They are looking more - the scholar is the perfect example, but a soldier who is very thoughtful and is not just rushing into battle could be chosen as well.

 

[Calderis he/him]

2 minutes ago, Extesian said:

Just to note, inkspren seem to be more about thoughtfulness, consistency and applied logic, rather than scholarship per se

 

Ah, so the classic soldier philosopher would make a good Elsecaller. 

I very much want to be a part of this order. 

[+Extesian he/him]

4 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Ah, so the classic soldier philosopher would make a good Elsecaller. 

I very much want to be a part of this order. 

I got bad news for you Mr Inquisitor

Quote

DJARSKUBLAR

So say you go to Roshar and you give somebody a Hemalurgic spike for some Allomantic power, don't care what, and you use it to become a savant. Does that qualify them as 'broken' enough to become a Radiant? As long as they are also following the Ideals to attract a spren.

BRANDON SANDERSON

So becoming a Radiant is a spectrum of terminologies. It... probably, but you would have to find a Radiant who would, or a spren who would be willing to touch that, okay? It's going to drive them back

...

It would make it... yes. It's going to drive spren away. So what it's really going to make easier for, there, is spren and Investiture that doesn't care.

...

I'm saying it might let Odium in easier than Syl. Because Syl would care, and Odium would not care.

NO SPREN FOR YOU

[Steeldancer he/him]

I've been thinking couragespren for dustbringers

[Calderis he/him]

Just now, Extesian said:

I got bad news for you Mr Inquisitor

NO SPREN FOR YOU

JUST YOU WAIT! 

I'll get these spikes out someday. And when I do, I'll start philosophizing. 

You'll see... 

[Ansalem]

32 minutes ago, Steeldancer said:

I've been thinking couragespren for dustbringers

I think I would rather call them valorspren.

[Zalocx he/him]

It's interesting that people seem to be discussing decay/rot spren for Dustbringers. Since the implications are that they used their surges to light stuff on fire as noted by Kelak way back in the intro of WoK I always associated them with firespren as their "windspren are to honorspren" analogue. 

[Frostlander]

On 9/7/2017 at 7:42 PM, Ciridae said:

Wyndle mentions Keenspren at one point, saying that they are difficult to understand. If they are able to communicate there's a good chance they are one of the missing four unnamed nahel spren. I don't remember where I saw this but I think in a translated version of Edgedancer they were called lamentspren. What order could they belong to?

Ha! I hadn't known which meaning of "keen" he'd meant. Now I'm imagining a bunch of wailing, grieving, funeral-song-singing spren. It would probably be hard to calm them down long enough to have a normal conversation with them!

That could actually work with Dustbringers. I'm thinking of "releasing" from physical forms, burning funeral pyres, ashes to ashes-dust to dust. And I agree, I don't think he'd mention them as placing an order with Wyndle unless they were important and more than just a force of nature. Dustbringers is just my random, early morning guess.