[OB] True Spren

[Catladyman]

So, its been kicked around for a while on here that there are distinct levels within the spren-hierarchy, and this quote from the Stormfather in chapter4 confirms it:

Quote

There are no foolish oaths. All are the mark of men and true spren over beasts and subspren. The mark of intelligence, free will, and choice.

True spren are obviously those capable to sentience via the Nahel bond. Given the 10 orders, we know that there are at least 9 variants of true spren. The Bondsmiths, which bond unique spren, obviously lack a single, cohesive spren type.

We know 4/9 true spren without a doubt. Honorspren bond Windrunners, Highspren bond Skybreakers, Liespren (Cryptics) bond Lightweavers, and Cultivationspren bond Edgedancers. This leaves the question of the remaining types of true spren.

We have seen the spren associated with Truthwatchers via Ym, but we have no clue what this spren is associated with. What quality do Ym, Stump, and possibly Renarin have in common? Compassion? Empathy? This fits for Ym and Stump, but Renarin is uncertain on a few levels. 

Inkspren, which I believe is a name from a WoB, is another true spren we have seen but are unsure about the nature of. Scholarship possibly?

It seems, so far, that true spren are associated with concepts connected to higher order thought. Honor, law, cultivation, and lies all involve uniquely human concepts, as opposed to strictly nature/emotion-based.

In addition to speculation on the natures of true spren we have seen, like inkspren and truthwatcher spren, what other orders of true spren does everyone think exist?

I would love to see something like a negotiationspren/tradespren/commercespren, mostly because I would LOVE to see Rysn get some powers (I know this is unlikely due to her larkin). Also, commerce/negotiation seems kind of on par with the other concepts. 

So what other true spren do people think are a thing? I keep wracking my brain but can't seem to come up with any more. I would love to find out what other ideas are out there!

[Hafrigado]

Laborspren?

[Catladyman]

33 minutes ago, Hafrigado said:

Laborspren?

I like that! Possibly bonded to Willshapers, as I sort of think of them as the masons/contractors of the KR, not sure why...

 

EDIT: I totally meant that i think of Stonewards as the masons of the KR, NOT Willshapers. This means I would give laborspren to Stonewards

Edited September 6, 2017 by Catladyman

[Farnsworth]

Renarin is a Truthwatcher, but the Stump and Lift and Ym are all Edgedancers. They are very different. Edgedancers remember and consider those who are abandoned.

[Nathrangking]

Heatspren perhaps?

Edit: @Catladyman you are right I suppose nullification/ destruction spren?

Edited September 6, 2017 by Nathrangking

[Hafrigado]

 

3 minutes ago, Farnsworth said:

Renarin is a Truthwatcher, but the Stump and Lift and Ym are all Edgedancers. They are very different. Edgedancers remember and consider those who are abandoned.

No, Stump and Ym had the surge of Progression but their Spren were not Cultivationspren. This means they had to have been Truthwatchers.

[Catladyman]

@Farnsworth according to the WoB, Ym is a confirmed Truthwatcher.

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1181#8

Quote

TED HERMAN

Ym is confirmed to not be an Edgedancer. Does that mean that he would have become a Truthwatcher? 

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes.

Also, I am not sure if we have confirmation on Stump's order. I've assumed Truthwatcher up to this point because I feel like Wyndle would be aware of it if one of his own cultivationspren was in the city bonded to a surgebinder. Am I missing a WoB that confirms Stump's order?

EDIT: @Nathrangking i don't believe heatspren would qualify as a true spren. The concept of heat seems very basic to the universe, not one of the higher order concepts we have seen so far from true spren

Edited September 6, 2017 by Catladyman

[Borio Singaldi]

The Elsecallers bond with Inkspren. Jasnah's already bonded one named Ivory. So that's five out of nine.

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1178#21

7 minutes ago, Farnsworth said:

Renarin is a Truthwatcher, but the Stump and Lift and Ym are all Edgedancers.

Actually, Ym was on the path to being a Truthwatcher, while the Stump could possibly be a Truthwatcher or an Edgedancer.

Edit: I just been ninja'd.

Edited September 6, 2017 by Firerust
Ninja'd

[Catladyman]

@Firerust Yes we know the name of Inkspren, but what concept do they represent? Similar to how we have seen the Truthwatcher spren but are still completely in the dark as to what they embody?

[Bcknight2]

13 minutes ago, Catladyman said:

@Farnsworth according to the WoB, Ym is a confirmed Truthwatcher.

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1181#8

Also, I am not sure if we have confirmation on Stump's order. I've assumed Truthwatcher up to this point because I feel like Wyndle would be aware of it if one of his own cultivationspren was in the city bonded to a surgebinder. Am I missing a WoB that confirms Stump's order?

Not a WoB as far as I'm aware, but there is this from edgedancer:

Spoiler

“Yeah,” Lift said around a bite of pancakes. “You should have a weird little thing hanging around you. Not me. Something weirder. Like a vine?”

“A spren,” the Stump said. “Not like a vine. Like light reflected on a wall from a mirror…”

Lift glanced at Wyndle, who clung to the wall nearby. He nodded his vine face.

Since that description doesn't sound like a cultivation spren (like wyndle) it is presumed that she is a truthwatcher.

Edit, description of Ym's spren in WoR:

Spoiler

Something moved in the dimness to his right. Ym glanced in that direction, but didn’t change his posture. The spren had been coming more often lately—specks of light, like those from a piece of crystal suspended in a sunbeam. He did not know its type, as he had never seen one like it before.

Seems to match pretty well with Stump's description

Edited September 6, 2017 by Bcknight2

[Borio Singaldi]

4 minutes ago, Catladyman said:

Yes we know the name of Inkspren, but what concept do they represent? Similar to how we have seen the Truthwatcher spren but are still completely in the dark as to what they embody?

Yes, I understand that. I was just mentioning that Inkspren are one of the nine known types of true spren, seeing as it hadn't been mentioned before.

What Inkspren could mean, though...? Maybe writing? Just like with lying (as in Liespren/Cryptics), writing isn't a natural law of the world, but it is something that exists as a result of human interaction.

[Hafrigado]

5 minutes ago, Catladyman said:

@Farnsworth according to the WoB, Ym is a confirmed Truthwatcher.

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1181#8

Also, I am not sure if we have confirmation on Stump's order. I've assumed Truthwatcher up to this point because I feel like Wyndle would be aware of it if one of his own cultivationspren was in the city bonded to a surgebinder. Am I missing a WoB that confirms Stump's order?

Lift asked Stump if she had a viney Spren (Cultuvation Spren) following her around and she said no, but that there was a Spren that looked like.... (I don't remember exactly how she worded it but) she described it almost exactly how Ym described his. ( I think it was described as looking like light shining through a stained glass window)

[Hafrigado]

4 minutes ago, Bcknight2 said:

Not a WoB as far as I'm aware, but there is this from edgedancer:

  Hide contents

“Yeah,” Lift said around a bite of pancakes. “You should have a weird little thing hanging around you. Not me. Something weirder. Like a vine?”

“A spren,” the Stump said. “Not like a vine. Like light reflected on a wall from a mirror…”

Lift glanced at Wyndle, who clung to the wall nearby. He nodded his vine face.

Since that description doesn't sound like a cultivation spren (like wyndle) it is presumed that she is a truthwatcher.

Yeah, that. And I'm pretty sure that's almost exactly how Ym described his.

[Farnsworth]

11 minutes ago, Hafrigado said:

 

No, Stump and Ym had the surge of Progression but their Spren were not Cultivationspren. This means they had to have been Truthwatchers.

But Wyndle said that she would have bonded another person who made shoes for orphans. Sounds a lot like Ym so I think Ym must be an Edgedancer.

 

[18th Shard]

People may attract multiple Spren if they live in such a way - Ym attracted both, he just only bonded ten truth watcher spren

[Hafrigado]

2 minutes ago, Farnsworth said:

But Wyndle said that she would have bonded another person who made shoes for orphans. Sounds a lot like Ym so I think Ym must be an Edgedancer.

 

I think this just means that he could have been an Edgedancer. No one ever said someone can't have the potential for more than one Order.

[OathKeeper]

3 minutes ago, Farnsworth said:

But Wyndle said that she would have bonded another person who made shoes for orphans. Sounds a lot like Ym so I think Ym must be an Edgedancer.

 

I thought this too. Instead this teaches us something else about the bonding process- true spren of different orders may be waiting and watching, deciding whom to bond. This opens up some fun hypotheticals like, if Syl hadn't bonded Kaladin, would another kind of Soren have done? Could he have been, say, a Dustbringer? Or a Stoneward?

[Hafrigado]

1 minute ago, 18th Shard said:

People may attract multiple Spren if they live in such a way - Ym attracted both, he just only bonded ten truth watcher spren

Yeah, sorry. I take several minutes editing my posts so a lot of times people reply to something while I'm still writing mine.

[frozndevl]

8 minutes ago, Firerust said:

Yes, I understand that. I was just mentioning that Inkspren are one of the nine known types of true spren, seeing as it hadn't been mentioned before.

What Inkspren could mean, though...? Maybe writing? Just like with lying (as in Liespren/Cryptics), writing isn't a natural law of the world, but it is something that exists as a result of human interaction.

Given the relationship between their two orders, sharing a surge, I think their spren would be related. I'm thinking something along the idea of a truthspren. I can't remember if we've seen a lesser truthspren, so it could be something else. Jasnah is a scholar, looking for truths and facts.

[Hafrigado]

3 minutes ago, frozndevl said:

Given the relationship between their two orders, sharing a surge, I think their spren would be related. I'm thinking something along the idea of a truthspren. I can't remember if we've seen a lesser truthspren, so it could be something else. Jasnah is a scholar, looking for truths and facts.

Maybe it just means writing in general.

Edit:

Or maybe language

Edited September 6, 2017 by Hafrigado

[Catladyman]

27 minutes ago, Nathrangking said:

Heatspren perhaps?

Edit: @Catladyman you are right I suppose nullification/ destruction spren?

I thought about something like this, especially with regard to the Dustbringers. There has to be some concept that relates to destruction or division without being inherently negative. I liken it to the idea of knocking down a building to start fresh or re-breaking a bone to allow it to heal correctly. I'm just not sure about how to describe it in a concise, one-word, spren-like fashion.

[frozndevl]

Oh yeah, we know what they are called, duh. However, I think it's more than writing, which is just a mechanical movement...could be writing or the recording of knowledge and pursuit of knowledge.

[Hafrigado]

9 minutes ago, Catladyman said:

I thought about something like this, especially with regard to the Dustbringers. There has to be some concept that relates to destruction or division without being inherently negative. I liken it to the idea of knocking down a building to start fresh or re-breaking a bone to allow it to heal correctly. I'm just not sure about how to describe it in a concise, one-word, spren-like fashion.

You mean like Ruin?

[Catladyman]

@Hafrigado... well, yeah. But less negative. Although I've always assumed that Dustbringers owe their reputation to their eyes (they glow red, right?) or to the way they use their powers. It is possible, though, that people mistrust them because of a bond with a spren people typically fear/dislike?

[Hafrigado]

@Catladyman read Mistborn