[OB] Oathbringer 4-6

[Guest]

I've been thinking about Mara (of course, all just speculation):

Now, Syl says, that she had heard another voice, when she said, that she remembered Kaladin's parents.

Quote

Besides, there was… another voice. Pure, with a song like tapped crystal, distant yet demanding…

Many think it was Tien, but he is dead for a while now and died before Kaladin bonded with Syl. I think it is some form of Cognitive communication between spren. I think, it may have been a spren, that is was close to Kaladin's family during that time... and maybe still is. I think, that Lirin took up Mara as his apprentice shortly after he and Hesina were told, that both of their sons are dead, so she has to have been with the family for quite some time now and, while I don't think that Mara and Kaladin are related by blood, they share a bond to the same family and I am sure, that Lirin and Hesina have talked about Kaladin at some point. My theory is that Mara is a proto-radiant and her spren for some reason knew, that Syl had bonded with Kaladin and inquired about him. Syl and Mara's spren communicated and he shared some information about Kaladin's parents to Syl.

Why doesn't Syl tell Kaladin outright? Well, she does like to tease him sometimes and her smile shows, that she knows something he doesn't. I think it would make sense though for Kaladin to find a proto-radiant to bring back to Urithiru during his absence from there.

[Darkness]

17 hours ago, Darkness said:

I like getting details of Evi, but I'm terribly impressed that Navani quickly grasped the implications of Dalinar's condition. I would have immediately started explaining all the important moments Dalinar had mentioned, as if I could fill in the blanks that had emptied themselves dozens of times. Oh and, lol the alcohol.

Of all the things on Roshar: Stormlight, and fabrials, and Gods and Surges, I find a 'pure, single unbroken pane of glass' the hardest to believe haha. Probably because the window washer in me is shuddering in horror. Maybe Adhesion could help keep it clean. A giant, adhesion fabrial that filled with each Highstorm and automatically sloughed off everything on the glass periodically.

...

Elhokar, that was incredibly mature! I didn't expect that from you!

Kaladin has Stormlight-drag. Gravitation-drag?

sorry for quoting myself, but I've seen a lot of people echoing the thoughts I expressed, and since I edited my experiences in about an hour after posting it was already buried by page 2 haha.

Someone mentioned Navani not telling Dalinar about Evi, and implied that there was something shady there, like she had known beforehand or something. I just read it as Navani being smart enough (and having experienced personal tragedy with the 'death' of Jasnah) that she understood it literally wouldn't do any good for Dalinar to hear about his dead wife.

I read Elhokar as being whimsical and only slightly bitter at Dalinar usurping his authority. Like he knew it was inevitable after the chest stomping, and had accepted the changed power dynamic. I thought that him putting his mother's happiness ahead of his personal uneasiness was incredibly mature.

Also, is no one going to mention the single pane of glass?! That is a ridiculous improbability! There is no way it would survive that long without breaking, chipping, cracking, turning opaque from grime, etc., without some sort of magical structural engineering that is WAY beyond anything else we've seen. I mean, come on, a single pane?! In seemingly perfect condition? How? Why is everything not made out of this miracle glass? It obviously withstands Highstorms well enough.

[frozndevl]

9 minutes ago, Darkness said:

Also, is no one going to mention the single pane of glass?! That is a ridiculous improbability! There is no way it would survive that long without breaking, chipping, cracking, turning opaque from grime, etc., without some sort of magical structural engineering that is WAY beyond anything else we've seen. I mean, come on, a single pane?! In seemingly perfect condition? How? Why is everything not made out of this miracle glass? It obviously withstands Highstorms well enough.

Transparent aluminum / aluminium. Discuss

[Prince of Ravens]

5 minutes ago, frozndevl said:

Transparent aluminum / aluminium. Discuss

They could have soul casted it into transparent aluminum. It is plausible.

[Darkness]

On ‎9‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 5:03 PM, frozndevl said:

Transparent aluminum / aluminium. Discuss

Reminds me of that Star Trek episode where they travel to the 70s on Earth and Scotty pulls up the schematics for transparent concrete.

I really need to not say things like that haha.

hmmm... Aluminum is probably way too rare, not sure how you could make it transparent realmatically, and it would probably warp and pit through natural forces.

I figure it's actually based off of a metal sheet, soulcast into glass, and then imbued with modified regrowth and abrasion fabrials, and possibly a few others.

Edit: Aluminum can be soulcast, but it's realmatically inert. Thanks to all for the sourced corrections

Edited September 16, 2017 by Darkness

[dvoraen]

Something I found interesting was the nature of the wedding ceremony.  It was literally an exchange of oaths, before a being who is effectively the arbiter of the system of Radiant advancement.

 

Anyone want to go on a limb with me and say that a bond was forged between Dalinar and Navani, and that there will be interesting side-effects from it?  (For example, one knowing where the other is.)

[Darkness]

1 minute ago, dvoraen said:

Something I found interesting was the nature of the wedding ceremony.  It was literally an exchange of oaths, before a being who is effectively the arbiter of the system of Radiant advancement.

 

Anyone want to go on a limb with me and say that a bond was forged between Dalinar and Navani, and that there will be interesting side-effects from it?  (For example, one knowing where the other is.)

ooo, the first Bondsmith squire?

[WhiteLeeopard]

7 hours ago, Calderis said:

This is not going to be a good time to be named Kholin. 

On the other hand, you could say its the best time to be a Kholin! Get a close friend 24/7, get to glow, and get cool powers! In exchange you just need to deal with a stuffy church screaming as you take their power, and vulture politicians screaming as they become more insignificant.

6 hours ago, maxal said:

I am starting to think nobody will ever find out and Adolin will keep his secret forever... I mean, if he can act this happy so soon after, then well, I have been wrong on a few things.

I am all for keeping secret forever. Although he will most likely tell some people eventually. Renarin, Shallan and Kaladin are at the top of his list. But keep in mind Adolin loves his family more than anything, its the one characteristic I would give if asked to say his most important attribute. Of course he would be happy his father and aunt (who already does a great part of his mother's role) got married. He is not the sort to let his own problems hinder the good times of his family.

6 hours ago, maxal said:

I thought Kaladin's reaction was perfect. I read him as waiting before unraveling his entire bag. He seemed to be observing, a lot, trying to evaluate the people around him.

This was certainly part of it. But mainly it seemed what it looked like. He hasn't been mothered or cosseted for 5 years, so he took 30min to enjoy the moment once he saw it was safe, knowing it would soon end as he'd need to take the reins.

5 hours ago, Edonidd said:

I hardly think noticing an out of style coat is akin to Adolin.  Wearing trendy type clothing that is so far out of style really stands out.  I read it as more of a comment on how backwater and out of touch Roshone was for Kal to even notice rather than a comment on Kaladins fashion sense or new found judgementalness.

Oh, I'm sure that that is the main reason. We're just having fun at imagining wild unlikely but fun possibilities . And part of what made that line so sweet is it shows more Kaladin-Adolin bromance. Once he wouldn't have noticed, or ignored it, or thought badly on Adolin for judging clothing. Now he read more rueful at Adolin but in a fond way. At least that's how I saw it. 

5 hours ago, Edonidd said:

Elthokar.  I can't believe people have a problem with what he said, it was actually th emost mature and regal thing we have seen him do in the series so far.

Yes it is...but at the same time there was a dark edge is his statement. Maybe nothing will come of it, but maybe he is getting ready to roll in bad directions. But agree it was quite mature. (Sorry out of upvotes already, so can't give you one)

4 hours ago, Nymeros said:

Friendly reminder: Adolin is a murderer and a coward

Seriously? Adolin may be one of the least cowardly characters in all SA.

D: "You need to go win an assault with half the forces everyone else gets"

A: "On my way"

D: "You need to win an infinite number of duels or our house comes crashing down"

A: "Consider it done"

Like maxal said, any other radiant character has refused to acknowledge past actions for years, but apparently non-radiants have to be 4x more brilliant than radiants to get half the recognition for readers.

Edited September 6, 2017 by WhiteLeeopard

[Gloom Spren]

Only read about half the comments so far, but I'm dying to get some of my thoughts out!

There's a lot of speculation that Kaladin will summon Syl to fight, but I can't see that happening unless he wants a repeat of his spar with Adolin: who is he trying to protect?  I do wonder if we might get another oath from this visit. Forgive those who have repented, maybe? I also wonder if the mention of his conflicted feelings about Moash might be foreshadowing for another oath.  Maybe something like he won't favor friendship over what is right. 

I should probably read that oath prediction thread

[Pattern]

15 hours ago, IceBaka said:

If the preface writer isn't Jasnah, then Brandon is trolling us hard.

@Oversleep's "Brandon told me the end of the Cosmere, but I am not allowed to share it" - and all instigated by Brandon - comes to my mind immediately.
Brandon would never troll us...

13 hours ago, JoyBlu said:

Who is Mara? 

Without much reason I suspect Mara is Vivenna.

13 hours ago, Calderis said:

This is actually the line that swayed me towards Renarin as the author

But would Renarin be able to view into Shadesmar? The surge to travel there is only available to Lightweavers and Elsecallers, but I guess taking a peek in there is possible for every Radiant. I think Kaladin also has had one of these glimpses, but I have to look it up to be sure.

12 hours ago, narkis said:

I haven't seen any theories about The Rift/Rathalas yet, so I'll just throw mine out there:

Spoiler Unfettered II, The Thrill:

Spoiler

I think the Rift is where Dalinar survived the foreshadowed landslide and took Oathbringer from the 6 or 7 years old prince (killing him or not has yet to be shown, I am inclined to expect Dalinar to have killed the boy to get the shardblade, though)

 

11 hours ago, maxal said:

They mother was murdered.

I only read that Evie was abducted. And Dalinar went berserk after that. What else happened seems murky for me. Either she was killed by the abductors, or killed while Dalinar tried to free her, or he accidentally killed her himself while trying to free her, or he freed her still living, doing atrocities in the process nonetheless.
Spoiler :The Thrill:

Spoiler

Were the events in the Rift correlated with Evie's abduction?

So while it is not unlikely that Evie suffered a violent death, I don't think it is something of a given.

@maxal: As for Hesina hiding: She isn't really hiding, she is being interrupted. Sneaky Brandon...

 

11 hours ago, maxal said:

Also, I am surprised to be the first one to mention how Kaladin, of all people, starts to judge Roshone based on his outfit.

Yeah well, I smiled at this, but there was so MUCH else to mention ;-)

 

9 hours ago, Jess said:

Is it just me, or is this a really weird thing for Jasnah to say? People don't claim she's a heretic; they know she is. She's a professed atheist. She's not shy about it. But the language here is almost defensive, like the author doesn't consider themself a heretic and doesn't like being considered one by others.

If we are talking about a finished book, these parts could be from a time when Jasnah hasn't embraced her heretic nature, yet. So she still is defensive about it then, which she wouldn't be in present time anymore.

 

7 hours ago, maxal said:

What did they do for Tien? They got him an apprenticeship as the carpenter's third apprentice

But not because they valued him less than Kaladin. They tried him as second surgeon apprentice, but Tien could not see blood. Since it didn't get better, he had to do something else. And Tien liked carving and working as a carpenter, he was even good at it. I don't see Kaladin's parents valueing Tien less. He has been dead for some years though, Hesina and Lirin had time to mourn him, and now Kaladin walks in after being thought dead for more than a year. I guess their reaction is natural and in no way biased.

7 hours ago, asterion137 said:

I personally don't think the book is written in the modern day. If someone like the sunmaker had the visions he would have been branded a heretic too. The last two books have been older texts, and I don't think the lines about heresy necessarily mean it's a known heretic like Dalinar or Jasnah.

If the book is not from present day, it must have been from before the Recreance, since we read of Shadesmar, etc. I think the sunmaker was after the Recreance, right?

Edited September 6, 2017 by Pattern

[dvoraen]

53 minutes ago, Darkness said:

ooo, the first Bondsmith squire?

Not a squire, no, but something specific to Bondsmiths that could only happen with Dalinar.  I think it's more related to the Bondsmith's Resonance/Order-specific ability.  I'm of a mind that they can literally make binding oaths, especially if the other party reciprocates.

Edited September 6, 2017 by dvoraen

[Worldhopper]

I just smiled a lot reading the last part of the last chapter.

[Michael Portz]

11 hours ago, Pattern said:

 

Spoiler Unfettered II, The Thrill:

  Hide contents

I think the Rift is where Dalinar survived the foreshadowed landslide and took Oathbringer from the 6 or 7 years old prince (killing him or not has yet to be shown, I am inclined to expect Dalinar to have killed the boy to get the shardblade, though)

 

Yepp, it definitively is this! Just checked Unfettered II:

Spoiler

 

"Rathalas" and "the rift" are where it takes place.

EDT:

And, no, its way before Dalinar and Evie even meet, so the event has nothing to do with her being abducted or killed...

 

EDT 2: Inserted Spoiler Tags, sorry!!

Edited September 6, 2017 by Michael Portz

[hypatia]

Oh Dalinar

'I WILL UNITE INSTEAD OF DIVIDE. I WILL BRING MEN TOGETHER"

Now-a few days later - you are about to break your Bond.

Whatever motivations, a fight against Elhokar will lead to civil-war in Alethkar.

He is a Bondsmith, not a warlord.

Isn't it symbolic - he doesn't have a Shardblade anymore - neither a dead nor a living one.

[WhiteLeeopard]

8 minutes ago, hypatia said:

Oh Dalinar

'I WILL UNITE INSTEAD OF DIVIDE. I WILL BRING MEN TOGETHER"

Now-a few days later - you are about to break your Bond.

Whatever motivations, a fight against Elhokar will lead to civil-war in Alethkar.

He is a Bondsmith, not a warlord.

Isn't it symbolic - he doesn't have a Shardblade anymore - neither a dead nor a living one.

Thing is...you can't unite by being a carpet. Specially for petty children and squabblers. He tried that in TWoK and we saw how wonderfully it went. They need to build something new, not continue on the useless old that just leads to death.

[hypatia]

@WhiteLeeopard

Yes, that's right, but in WoR he wasn't a Bondsmith.

Now he is, his surges should be able to show him a new way - but he doesn't look for his new abilities.

Dalinar himself should do what he said to Renarin.

But all he thinks of are his old ways.

[+Extesian]

A few thoughts after skimming through 4500 responses. 

Adolin is one of the bravest people on Roshar.

I'm obsessed with the pane of glass. 

If Dalinar and Navani break up the world is going to end. Faster. 

Mara is probably young and therefore not Vivenna (also would be a strange place for Vivenna to settle for a few years) but storm it I WILL find Vivenna.

Dalinar may or may not have wiped out an entire town, or at least an entire ruling family, and can't even remember why he did it other than the fact it was vengeance. I'd overcompensate with self-control as well. 

Kadash is significant. The amount of detail about him before this book made me think that. He's gon' do something...

Elhokar's pretty calm for someone who's throne was usurped by a guy who promised he'd never usurp the throne. He's gon' do something...

Keladin was music to my eyeballs and since the guy can be a lighteyes any time he wants, he's probably gonna be alright. 

Where...the...hell...are...the...parshmen. Kaladin's parents describe the storm damage, ain't no waaay  they would fail to mention parshmen turning into demons. 

Mara is probably a dragon. 

[Pattern]

7 minutes ago, hypatia said:

@WhiteLeeopard

Yes, that's right, but in WoR he wasn't a Bondsmith.

Now he is, his surges should be able to show him a new way - but he doesn't look for his new abilities.

Dalinar himself should do what he said to Renarin.

But all he thinks of are his old ways.

Well, Dalinar tells Elhokar he has a plan Elhokar would probably like. He tries to keep him in the loop. And for real: Elhokar's whining and spinelessness needs to end. Letting him rule as he wanted would mean Odium had already won.

I also read a lot of darkness in his - admittedly mature lines - at the wedding. Let's see where he is rolling...

3 minutes ago, Extesian said:

Mara is probably young and therefore not Vivenna

With all her Breaths, Vivenna still could look young. I guess there is no obvious reason for her to stay in Hearthstone for years though.

6 minutes ago, Extesian said:

Adolin is one of the bravest people on Roshar.

Agreed. No more upvotes left, so...(+1)

Edited September 6, 2017 by Pattern

[WhiteLeeopard]

On Elhokar: When there is a void of power that the person which is meant to fill doesn't occupy, someone else will fill it. And that goes double when the world is ending. He needs to accept this fast. I hope he goes in a good direction, but he is my least favorite Kholin, as he is the the one I have least sympathy for. He had years as king, and years before that to prepare, and he did nothing. He would be respected if he were a great warrior (not too hard seing as he was a full Shardbearer since he was a toddler, unlike his cousins who either didn't have it, or had to earn part of it). Or if he were a great commander, strategist, politician, or even if he were good with people and likable. Now...we will see if he starts learning, or if he just throws out obstacles. Or just goes to the darkside.

16 minutes ago, Extesian said:

A few thoughts after skimming through 4500 responses. 

Come now, was just 260+ . Unless you also read all of reddit and Tor...

And yeah, I'm out of upvotes too, so...cookie?

Edited September 6, 2017 by WhiteLeeopard

[Pattern]

12 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

On Elhokar: When there is a void of power that the person which is meant to fill doesn't occupy, someone else will fill it. And that goes double when the world is ending. He needs to accept this fast. I hope he goes in a good direction, but he is my least favorite Kholin, as he is the the one I have least sympathy for. He had years as king, and years before that to prepare, and he did nothing. He would be respected if he were a great warrior (not too hard seing as he was a full Shardbearer since he was a toddler, unlike his cousins who either didn't have it, or had to earn part of it). Or if he were a great commander, strategist, politician, or even if he were good with people and likable. Now...we will see if he starts learning, or if he just throws out obstacles. Or just goes to the darkside.

Also (+1)
And on Dalinar usurping power: Technically he has done no such thing. He feels he did it, but: Urithiru is not and has never been a part of Alethkar. The King of Alethkar is an embassador in Urithiru at best. Leading the armies to fight the Parshendi (to prevent the Everstorm) also falls into the responsibilities of a general. The discovery of Urithiru and the escape there was a byproduct and Dalinar, being the only Bondsmith now, is the one in charge in Urithiru, Elhokar really has no right to any role of leadership there. And the Radiant City being annected to Alethkar is a thing unthinkable with Knights Radiants reappearing.

Another though, on Kaladin:

I have the hunch he finally will resolve his childhood/youth dilemma with protecting and killing. Having become a Windrunner, he hopefully is able to make clear to Lirin, that this is exactly what Windrunners do. They protect, and kill in the process if necessary.

Edited September 6, 2017 by Pattern

[WhiteLeeopard]

1 minute ago, Pattern said:

Also (+1)
And on Dalinar usurping power: Technically he has done no such thing. He feels he did it, but: Urithiru is not and has never been a part of Alethkar. The King of Alethkar is an embassador in Urithiru at best. Leading the armies to fight the Parshendi (to prevent the Everstorm) also falls into the responsibilities of a general. The discovery of Urithiru and the escape there was a byproduct and Dalinar being the only Bondsmith now is the one in charge in Urithiru, Elhokar really has no right to any role of leadership there. And the Radiant City being annected to Alethkar is a thing unthinkable with Knights Radiants reappearing.

Absolutely! Cookie too?

The only slight thing, is that Dalinar may need to abdicate as highprince soon, and pass the pricedom on to Adolin, to fully embrace his Bondsmith role. I agree he is the ultimate authority in Urithiru, but similarly, he needs to leave behind the Alethi trappings, including Highprince of War. And granted, appointing highprinces to roles may not be inside his authority. Unless he says those roles just apply while in Urithiru, if so, totally works. 

The sweet thing is, if by the time its found out Adolin killed Sadeas he is already highprince I doubt they can do anything legally against him.

[Pattern]

Yummie, cookies...

5 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

The sweet thing is, if by the time its found out Adolin killed Sadeas he is already highprince I doubt they can do anything legally against him.

They could demand a duel ;-)

[+Wax]

I definitely agree that the writing style is different A LOT for this book.

The big difference that I see is that in every scene the focus shifts from person to person.  So, the Kaladin chapters do that.

But the Dalinar chapters are written differently - the individual "spotlight" on other characters is lighter.  Particularly at the wedding.  It happens so quickly!  Yet the spotlight does come on when talking to the Ardent.

On another note - "crystal like voice...." - does anyone else think of Wyndle's crystals when that's mentioned?

 

[WhiteLeeopard]

3 minutes ago, Pattern said:

They could demand a duel ;-)

Lol, this is my worried face. Okay, I guess even Adolin could eventually lose...but after the 4v1 duel even Sadeas was quivering at the thought of facing him. And Sadeas was a genuinely good duelist. Then again this could be the twist, they force him to duel when severely injured and he evnetually loses a duel. *sob*

p.s. do you think we could convince the mods to give us 16 extra upvotes on day of chapter sample release? and maybe another 16 per day the week after OB release? 

[Prince of Ravens]

3 hours ago, Darkness said:

Edit: Aluminum cant be soulcast, forged, or other stuff. It's realmatically inert. The only magical thing I think it can d is be burned by allomancy. That and made into compounds.

6

Wasn't it said in one of the Shallan flashbacks that Shallan's necklace was made of aluminum, and that it can only be soulcasted?