Raoden holds the dual shard of Benevolence

[Brightlord M. Alhstrom he/him]

Really wacky theory, and probably wrong, but hear me out.

First off, "Benevolence" is the name I am giving to the Shard that would come of a combination of Dominion and Devotion. Came up with the name when hearing Raoden describe himself as a dictator. He is a dictator and a tyrant, embodying Dominion in his control of New Elantris, at the same time, his people love him, and not only does he devote himself to them, he teaches them to devote themselves to their work to escape the pain, thus also embodying Devotion. Best way to describe this to me would be a Benevolent Dictator. Let me know if you have a better name for a combination of Dominion and Devotion (Kinda like how Harmony is the name of Ruin+Preservation).

Part two of the theory. Haven't looked this up too much, so it might already be accepted knowledge, but here you go. Odium shattered both Dominion and Devotion. This destroyed their consciousnesses, as well as locking their power in the cognitive realm, in a shattered form. I am assuming that this is what is making travel in Sel's area of Shadesmar dangerous; the shattered power of a shard is searching for purpose and is quite volatile. The Dor is in fact the collection of Devotion and Dominion's power, stuck in the cognitive realm and trying to escape. Something in the shattering also stops it from reforming a consciousness, though I'm not sure if that is by keeping it apart (shattered) or it is through some other means. However, I think it is safe to assume that Dominion and Devotion are united as a single power now, almost like a shattered Harmony might be.

Part three has to do with Raoden's Dor attacks. For reference, he is the relevant part of Chapter 37:

Quote

It struck while Raoden was studying. He didn't hear himself gasp in agonized shock, nor did he feel himself tumble from his seat in a spastic seizure. All he felt was the pain - a sharp torment that dropped upon him suddenly and vengefully. It was like a million tiny insects, each one latching on to his body - inside and out - to eat him alive. Soon he felt as if he had no body - the pain was his body. It was the only sense, the only input, and his screams were the only product.
Then he felt it. It stood like an enormous slick surface, without crack or pocket, at the back of his mind. It pressed demandingly, pounding the pain into every nerve of his body, like a workman driving a spike into the ground. It was vast. It made men, mountains, and worlds, seem paltry. It was not evil, or even sentient. It didn't rage, or churn. It was immobile, frozen by its own intense pressure. It wanted to move - to go anywhere, to find any release from the strain. But there was no outlet.

Here, he feels the Dor, as this vast power, making worlds seem insignificant. However, there are a couple lines I'd like to call attention to. First "without crack". To me this seems to say that the shattered pieces aren't separated physically. No, to me it seems to say that something is keeping the sentience of the shards shattered and unformed (thus the "It was not evil, or even sentient." line), while the power is somewhat whole and unite in the Cognitive realm, even if it is volatile and dangerous.

A shard's power tends to try and find a host, preferably one that can actually hold the shard (ie has a similar character to it's ideal). To me it seems like Raoden is the first person who is both an Elantrian (read, connection to the Dor) and the odd mix of both Devotion and Dominion's intents. This annotation from Elantris' 31st chapter would seem to confirm this:

Quote

If I were to assign Raoden two defining traits, the first would be his ability to make the best of what he’s given (as I’ve spoken of above.) The second, however, would be the personality trait he manifests in this chapter–his simple belief in the goodness of the human race.

With a bit of twisting, those two traits could be seen as Dominion and Devotion. Seems suspicious that Brandon would use the term "two defining traits" if intent plays such a big part in Shard lore and mechanics.

So, what I think is happening is that the Dor is trying to find a host, but something that Odium did when shattering it is stopping it. And any attempt to absorb the shard is extremely painful to the host, due to a lingering shattering effect from Odium to stop a new host or due to the volatility of the current state of the Dor. Also, for some reason, being a fallen elantrian allows the Dor to try and take you as a host, assuming you have the connection required. If there ever was another Elantrian who, like Raoden, had the character to hold the Dor, then they have perished and been forgotten by the time Raoden becomes an elantrian.

All that to say, I think that Raoden, after becoming settled as an Elantrian wouldn't have given up his passion with understanding the Dor. And that it would keep trying to take him. Maybe as a full elantrian, the effects would be different than pain, but I don't know. Regardless, Raoden would figure it out, and would eventually take on the power of both Dominion and Devotion, becoming the shard Benevolence.

Other points:

• Somehow the Cognitive realm becomes safe enough for travel some time after Elantris, as Galladon finds his way to Roshar. It would make sense if someone has taken in all of that volatile power.
• The Dor attacks was one of the unresolved mysteries of Elantris. Why was it important to the plot? Just so there was urgency to Raoden after the bands joined? (as per the annotations.) I don't think so. The Dor attacks seem too well thought out. To me it smells like a strand of a Cosmere level plot. Something to lead into a sequel.
• The "glowing" during the Dor attacks would seem similar to the description of Vin right before her body melted away. In fact, here is another passage from Elantris which almost says this. It's when Raoden gets attacked by the Dor during a conversation with Sarene:

 

Quote

And she felt something. It brought bumps to her arms and sent a frigid shiver through her body. Something large, something impossibly immense, pressed against her. The air itself seemed to warp away from Spirit's body. She could no longer see his bones; there was too much light. It was as if he was dissolving into pure whiteness; she would have thought him gone if she hadn't feel his weight in her arms.
(Emphasis added)

So, there you go. My theory is that some time after Elantris (maybe in a sequel) Raoden takes up the mantle of the shattered power of both Dominion and Devotion, becoming a shard who's intent is very similar to that of a benevolent dictator. Thus the name Benevolence.

Edit: Thanks to @The One Who Connects for catching that I wrote Domination instead of Dominion a couple times.

Edited July 5, 2017 by Lord Maelstrom

[Calderis he/him]

I still don't agree, and I'll explain why in a second (and since we're dealing with Brandon, he could be super creative and prove my reasoning completely wrong), but I have to say, you took new information and incorporated it into the idea you formed in the other thread, expanding it and fleshing it out pretty extensively. Well done. 

The only real reason I still disagree is because of the magic systems themselves. If the Dor is taken up again as a Shard, The force creating the sentience in Sel's regions will be removed. The magic systems we know on Sel are fueled directly by the Dor via the Cognitive Realm. 

If the Shard was taken up I see two possibilities. Either the magic systems as we know them would break. Or the location dependance problem we know of on Sel would be removed as the investiture would be relocated back into the Spiritual Realm where it belongs. Either is a drastic and fundamental change to the magic as we know them. That isn't truly a reason it can't happen as we're dealing with Brandon, but it's still a very large change. 

That said, I like your theory, and I like the combination, though I'm not sure I would have gone with Benevolence. For Dominion and Devotion... Loving control... Guidance maybe? 

Either way. Great theory. 

Edited July 4, 2017 by Calderis

[Thanatos]

I think the next dual shard wil be either:

1. Cultivation/Odium; or

2. Autonomy/Odium.

This will be Stormlight book 5 ending.

Given we already know the ending i pick #2. 

But then we dont know the other 6 shards.

[Calderis he/him]

32 minutes ago, Thanatos said:

Given we already know the ending i pick #2. 

What? What are you talking about? 

[king of nowhere]

raoden taking shards is certainly possible, and he certainly fits the prerequisites, but that's all we can say for now

[The One Who Connects he/him]

3 hours ago, Thanatos said:

1. Cultivation/Odium     or      2. Autonomy/Odium

This will be Stormlight book 5 ending. Given we already know the ending I pick #2.

2 hours ago, Calderis said:

What? What are you talking about? 

I assume he is referring to the "we already know how Stormlight ends" bit from Brandon. His logic falters twice however. The first is that we know how Stormlight will end as in book 10, while he is talking about book 5. (Not too big of a deal, but a contradiction nonetheless) Secondly, this:

Quote

Q: RAFOed I'm sure, but you said you are planing 2 arcs of 5 books each in Stormlight Archive. I'm positive you will end current desolation story in the first 5 books, since as I understood, other 5 books will be set in near future in SA universe. So I guess my question is; can you drop any hint will Odium survive to see 6th SA book:)?
 
A: Oh, Odium will survive. Now, whether the one HOLDING that power will survive...that's a different question. (Not quite a RAFO.)

While this does not refute the possibility of it ever happening, it absolutely shoots down your timeline guess of book 5. Odium will be alive and whole going into SA Book 6. As for how I would respond to your double shard guesses, I'd place Honor/Odium myself. Brandon has made reference to the two of them being a pair that could've happened had things been different, so i think that's where he might go with it. Short of killing odium, tempering him is the only real solution.

---

Now, to respond to @Lord Maelstrom and the original topic:

• It's actually "Dominion," not Domination. There is a large enough difference between the terms that this distinction is mandatory.
• Benevolence is an interesting pick. Not the one I'd have gone with, but your logic is sound enough. Some other good ones have been Sovereignty and Guidance, so you've picked within the same vein.
• The Shard's consciousness was the Vessels themselves. Odium killed them and threw the power into the Cognitive so that it didn't gain sentience of its own. Per Annotations(I believe), the violent reactions between the two Intents/powers was keeping them from becoming sentient, which is why the CR is so dangerous.
• I am certain that Brandon has referred to the Dor as the only real example of a combined Shard other than Harmony, but that the Dor doesn't really count as a proper Shard. So you are more or less right about the melding now.
• We don't actually know if the CR on Sel ever becomes safe to travel through. Hoid has gone through it while it was unsafe, so we know it is possible. I am a huge proponent of it becoming safe sometime in the 1400-1700 years between Elantris and SA, but we can't say for certain that it does.
• While I like the comparison to Vin being melted away by the Mists, we know that the Dor wouldn't have done that to Raoden. Per Chap 49-2 Annotations

Quote

I imagine that he isn’t the first one to suffer something like this during the ten years that Elantris has been fallen. Other Elantrians probably practiced with the Aons, and the Dor eventually destroyed them. When it was done, they simply became Hoed.

Overall good theory, but needs some refining.

[Andy92]

I assumed he experienced those moments of pain because he attempted to draw Aons more than anyone else, but I do like the theory overall. 

[The One Who Connects he/him]

47 minutes ago, Andy92 said:

I assumed he experienced those moments of pain because he attempted to draw Aons more than anyone else, but I do like the theory overall. 

His experiments with Aons are why the Dor was able to attack him(through that channel he made by experimenting), but I think the OP is wondering why they happened when they did. Like why not be a constant pain once he opened the gates? If the Dor was merely yearning for a way out, why hold back from time to time? etc.. etc..

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

I really like this theory.

 

I'm not sure I agree that Raoden is likely to eventually ascend to hold Devotion and/or Dominion...

But I think that you present good evidence that the splintered shard of Devotion tried to absorb Raoden to be its vessel. It just couldn't, because it's splintered.

 

I think repairing a splintered shard would likely be quite difficult. I believe it might involve bonding with a bunch of splinters of the splintered shard. Which means Dalinar's off to a decent start for reforging Honor.

 

EDIT: Also, @Thanatos

Quote

I think the next dual shard will be either:

1. Cultivation/Odium; or

2. Autonomy/Odium

It's been confirmed that Odium is unwilling to pick up other shards, because it would dilute his own hatred. He probably could have taken the powers of ambition, dominion, or devotion, when he killed them. And he didn't take any of them.

It is possible that Rayse is killed however. Is this what you are predicting?

Edited July 4, 2017 by Drake Marshall

[Brightlord M. Alhstrom he/him]

Hey everyone! Thanks for the feedback. Really need to update the theory now that I've read the book.

First off, I'm going to split this into two parts:

What were the Dor attacks? Up till now I was saying that that was the Dor trying to make Raoden a vessel. After finishing Elantris (including Chapter 49) I don't think that's completely accurate anymore. But I have a backup theory which I will add shortly.

What are the chances that Raoden eventually becomes the vessel for Benevolence? This is really what the Theory was about, and even though it's main point (see above) falls apart, I think it still has merit.

 

So, to address the first question:
It eventually becomes clear that when Raoden finally used the Dor, a buildup of energy released and the attacks ended. That kinda breaks what I was saying. I think that using the Dor attracts the energy towards your location in the CR. Thus as Raoden was "building up" the Dor, it was coalescing around him. It's nature means that it was trying to escape. Now there are two reasons why I think the built up power might have attacked him:
 - The obvious one: It was trying to take any path out, and Raoden was an opening due to his connection to it's power, and to his usage of Aons. Pros: Simple answer. Cons: Then why wasn't Galladon attacked? Maybe because Raoden was like a lightning rod? Just a bit "higher" and a more likely target?
 - The complex one: The Shard is shattered, and can't get a vessel, but since the Shard itself was just a piece of a whole already that implies that pieces of Adonalsium - whether full 16th (Shards) or smaller pieces (shattered pieces of shards) - all try to find vessels, regardless of their size. So maybe the individual pieces of the shards that were in Raoden's location in the CR started uniting a little, and tried to make him their vessel. But when he used AonDor, those pieces (or their Investiture) escaped through the Aon, and thus stopped trying to meld with him. This might be why the shard can't be made whole. You'd have to travel around gathering the pieces, but using the Dor uses up the pieces nearest you, and only a Dor-user can gather pieces, Ergo, a Dor user would have to choose to stop using the Dor to gather the pieces.

At the same time, this passage makes me wonder how shattered the Dor is:

Quote

Then he felt it. It stood like an enormous slick surface, without crack or pocket, at the back of his mind. It pressed demandingly, pounding the pain into every nerve of his body, like a workman driving a spike into the ground. It was vast. It made men, mountains, and worlds, seem paltry. It was not evil, or even sentient. It didn't rage, or churn. It was immobile, frozen by its own intense pressure. It wanted to move - to go anywhere, to find any release from the strain. But there was no outlet.

(Chapter 37 of Elantris)

 

And question two:
There were three main arguments toward's Raoden taking up Benevolence after Elantris:
1. It was trying to meld with Him (see question above). Pretty much falls apart. If you use the complex explanation above however, it might kinda apply. It's just really hard because of the sheer size of the surface area you'd have to cover to get enough investiture to ascend. However, it might still support the follow point:
2. Raoden seemed to embody both Dominion and Devotion. He had power over the Elantrians, and was completely devoted to them, then to the Aons once they were fine. After becoming the (returned) Elantrian King, again, he had Dominion (control) but once again he was Devoted instead of selfish. The annotations really seem to pound this in.
3. The Sel portion of the CR becomes safe enough for both Hoid (and later Galladon, and probably some IRE members as well) to travel through without dying. I'm fairly sure there is a WoB somewhere that says that some of the IRE members from Secret History came from Sel after the shattering. Probably some who came after the return of Elantris too. I'm taking this to mean that something happens to the shattered pieces, and it could very well be someone's ascension.

 

So, the case is much weaker, but I think there is still potential there. Especially since Brandon specifically mentions the duality of Raoden's personality, and how he mention similar things in MBSH around Kelsier's personality, Vin's personality, as well a Sazed's personality. It sounds like the intent of someone personality needs to align with the Intent of a Shard for there to be an easy ascension.

[Thanatos]

Drake Marshall

Yeah i think Rayse is gonna die and another shard will pick it up.

Gotta have some power house to take on Harmony. 

Im thinking Cultivation will kill him then Autonomy will appear from knowhere and snach it up.

Lord Maelstrom.

That was a good read. Nice theorizing 

Edit..

Yeah i read the WoB wrong. He said the last chapter of Stormlight is in one of the first two books. 

I took it as arc 1 not the both arcs

 

Edited July 5, 2017 by Thanatos

[blueshard]

@The One Who Connects Could you please clarify how Stormlight 10 ends? Where did we learn about that? (WoB?)

"I assume he is referring to the "we already know how Stormlight ends" bit from Brandon. His logic falters twice however. The first is that we know how Stormlightwill end as in book 10, while he is talking about book 5. (Not too big of a deal, but a contradiction nonetheless)"

[Thanatos]

blueshard

How it ends is still unknown at this stage. In our perspective not Brandons.

This 'is' the Cosmere theory section no? And theres alot of good ones here. 

The WoB is:

Quote

Q: The ending of mistborn was hidden in the first chapter epigraphs. Is there something similar to that in The Way of Kings

A: There are but they are hidden in different places. The last chapter of the stormlight archive is somewhere in these two books.

I think your using the word logic wrong digger.

Plus i corrected myself in my last post. No contradiction, given the evolution of my posts. 

Add to that i read a book every week or two so i would forget things. Only human. 

Edited July 5, 2017 by Thanatos

[king of nowhere]

seems to me there is a vast gulf between "there are clues about the ending scattered in the epigraphs" and "we know how the book will end". especially if you consider that even in mistborn the epigraphs could only make sense in retrospect

[Thanatos]

king of nowhere.

Not when you take into account that this is the theory section. 

We know the ending. We just haven't joined the dots yet.

[Calderis he/him]

5 minutes ago, Thanatos said:

king of nowhere.

Not when you take into account that this is the theory section. 

We know the ending. We just haven't joined the dots yet.

We've been told that we have the clues needed to figure out the ending, but no real idea where it is. 

We "know" the ending in the same way that having a treasure map with its X in the other side of the world means I have a treasure, even though I haven't started digging it up yet. 

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

I have a problem with this Raoden-theory, which goes as follows:

If Raoden picks up Dominion and Devotion, and becomes Benevolence/random other cool name, then that would effectively change how magic works on Sel, since the Dor wouldnt be trapped in the CR any longer. I feel like Khriss essay in AU basically tells us that this hasnt happened.

If I remember correctly, the AU essays are written around the same time as Stormlight 1-5/Mistborn Era 2, which means a very long time after the events of Elantris. If something had changed drastically regarding Selish magic in the time between Elantris and the Sel essay, I feel like Khriss should have mentioned it.

[Brightlord M. Alhstrom he/him]

@Toaster Retribution I have a theory to counter that. For the Dor magic on Sel to continue working after someone takes up Benevolence, two things would have to happen:
1. Benevolence would have to continue to be spread out across the cognitive realm. I suspect that because of the nature of the shattering of the shards, it's connection to the SR might have been severed. Thus if someone took up the shard, they might not have the ability to see everywhere in an eyeblink. They might need to physically (or cognitively) spread themselves out to allow themselves to see and/or affect events in the rest of the world. Maybe a similar process to the mist in Mistborn. We might be dealing with a crippled Shard who doesn't know how to (or maybe can't) heal himself.
and 2. Benevolence would have to be willing to let the powers continue. I think that considering the intent of the shard, this might very well be the case. Dominion involves having and gathering power. Devotion implies expending what power you have towards a cause. Considering the "goodness" Raoden saw in people, I'd combine those two as Benevolence, which I think might include allowing people to draw on his power as in the past. Or maybe he doesn't have the choice. Either way, I don't think that the fact that the Dor still works is a sign that no one has ascended. Especially if Raoden realizes that someone shattered Dominion and Devotion in the first place and that he'd better hide the fact that he still exists until he finds a way to fix himself so that Odium doesn't come back to splinter him again. Then he might take up the power, only to have it act like it always did.

Now, all of this is a stretch, I agree, but I've had fun discussing and debating it. I agree that it's unlikely, but I still think it is possible.

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

32 minutes ago, Lord Maelstrom said:

@Toaster Retribution I have a theory to counter that. For the Dor magic on Sel to continue working after someone takes up Benevolence, two things would have to happen:
1. Benevolence would have to continue to be spread out across the cognitive realm. I suspect that because of the nature of the shattering of the shards, it's connection to the SR might have been severed. Thus if someone took up the shard, they might not have the ability to see everywhere in an eyeblink. They might need to physically (or cognitively) spread themselves out to allow themselves to see and/or affect events in the rest of the world. Maybe a similar process to the mist in Mistborn. We might be dealing with a crippled Shard who doesn't know how to (or maybe can't) heal himself.
and 2. Benevolence would have to be willing to let the powers continue. I think that considering the intent of the shard, this might very well be the case. Dominion involves having and gathering power. Devotion implies expending what power you have towards a cause. Considering the "goodness" Raoden saw in people, I'd combine those two as Benevolence, which I think might include allowing people to draw on his power as in the past. Or maybe he doesn't have the choice. Either way, I don't think that the fact that the Dor still works is a sign that no one has ascended. Especially if Raoden realizes that someone shattered Dominion and Devotion in the first place and that he'd better hide the fact that he still exists until he finds a way to fix himself so that Odium doesn't come back to splinter him again. Then he might take up the power, only to have it act like it always did.

Now, all of this is a stretch, I agree, but I've had fun discussing and debating it. I agree that it's unlikely, but I still think it is possible.

I do give you points for creating an interesting theory (and a fun debate). To counter your counterargument, I do think that for this all to work, neither Khriss, nor someone from Silverlight can have been visiting Sel in the CR for a long time. It is possible that Raoden is hiding, and able to keep the magic system working, but I do believe that Khriss or other worldhoppers would notice a massive, if wounded, Shard chilling in the CR.

Edited July 5, 2017 by Toaster Retribution

[Brightlord M. Alhstrom he/him]

2 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

I do give you points for creating an interesting theory (and a fun debate). To counter your counterargument, I do think that for this all to work, neither Khriss, nor someone from Silverlight can have been visiting Sel in the CR for a long time. It is possible that Raoden is hiding, and able to keep the magic system working, but I do believe that Khriss or other worldhoppers would notice a massive, if wounded, Shard chilling in the CR.

Well, that is a good point, but it still doesn't satisfy me. If a shard really wanted to hide, then I think he'd be able to do a pretty good job. There might be a difference, and they might notice it, but would someone taking up the splintered pieces of the shard be their explanation? They might be puzzled, but eventually they'd come to another conclusion. Or maybe they didn't. Maybe they know that Benevolence exists, they just also have an incentive in making sure the news doesn't get out to Odium or other threats.

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

6 minutes ago, Lord Maelstrom said:

Well, that is a good point, but it still doesn't satisfy me. If a shard really wanted to hide, then I think he'd be able to do a pretty good job. There might be a difference, and they might notice it, but would someone taking up the splintered pieces of the shard be their explanation? They might be puzzled, but eventually they'd come to another conclusion. Or maybe they didn't. Maybe they know that Benevolence exists, they just also have an incentive in making sure the news doesn't get out to Odium or other threats.

These are all good points. I doubt Raoden would be experienced enough with the powers to hide well, at least not at first. However, with experience he might learn, or Khriss/Hoid/another benevolent (no pun intended) person might help him to do it. 

If he can't hide however, trying to keep him hidden by not talking of him seems relatively pointless. While the majority of the people alive in the Cosmere cant worldhop, there are still a lot of different folks who can. The Ire, Ghostbloods, Silverlight, 17th Shard, Warbreaker characters and Hoid are probably just a few of the ones who can. Someone might bump into Raoden, especially if he doesnt know how to hide his powers. And also, some of these, like Khriss, Hoid or maybe the Ire would probably be quite good at finding Shards in hiding too.

[Brightlord M. Alhstrom he/him]

1 minute ago, Toaster Retribution said:

These are all good points. I doubt Raoden would be experienced enough with the powers to hide well, at least not at first. However, with experience he might learn, or Khriss/Hoid/another benevolent (no pun intended) person might help him to do it. 

If he can't hide however, trying to keep him hidden by not talking of him seems relatively pointless. While the majority of the people alive in the Cosmere cant worldhop, there are still a lot of different folks who can. The Ire, Ghostbloods, Silverlight, 17th Shard, Warbreaker characters and Hoid are probably just a few of the ones who can. Someone might bump into Raoden, especially if he doesnt know how to hide his powers. And also, some of these, like Khriss, Hoid or maybe the Ire would probably be quite good at finding Shards in hiding too.

Well, I'd have to check up, but I'm fairly sure I saw something in either HoA or MBSH where it said that when someone ascended they got an instinctive knowledge of the shard's capability and history, as well as other things about how shards work. So I think that Raoden would have a pretty good chance of A. knowing that he should hide, and B. knowing how to hide. Also, although there are worldhoppers who would go around Sel, they wouldn't do it too often since the Sellish CR is supposed to be dangerous, and over the centuries between Elantris and the other cosmere works, Raoden would have had time to learn how to better hide. Yea, a few worldhoppers might notice during that time, particularly those who have expertise in Shards (ie Khriss) but that doesn't mean that it would be widely known.

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

1 minute ago, Lord Maelstrom said:

Well, I'd have to check up, but I'm fairly sure I saw something in either HoA or MBSH where it said that when someone ascended they got an instinctive knowledge of the shard's capability and history, as well as other things about how shards work. So I think that Raoden would have a pretty good chance of A. knowing that he should hide, and B. knowing how to hide. Also, although there are worldhoppers who would go around Sel, they wouldn't do it too often since the Sellish CR is supposed to be dangerous, and over the centuries between Elantris and the other cosmere works, Raoden would have had time to learn how to better hide. Yea, a few worldhoppers might notice during that time, particularly those who have expertise in Shards (ie Khriss) but that doesn't mean that it would be widely known.

This does make sense. I still find it a bit farfetched, but who knows, maybe Raoden ascends and you prove me wrong. Anyway, good thinking, and fun discussion!

[StrikerEZ he/him]

I like the idea, I'm just not too sure how likely it is. You can come back here and tell us all you told us so if Raoden does ascend. 

As for the likelihood of Raoden being able to hide, I find it highly unlikely. Unless Raoden got really good at hiding himself, I think the Khriss essay basically disproves this. I feel him pretending to still be two splintered shards is highly unlikely, and the idea that Khriss is just spreading misinformation feels wrong to me, even if it was to hide Raoden from Odium (which isn't too much of a problem, considering he's trapped on Roshar).

Plus, if it were easy enough for Raoden to somehow gather the two shards with barely any Cosmere experience, don't you think the Ire would've just grabbed the splinters themselves, instead of going all the way to Scadrial to try and grab Preservation? Unless Raoden is telling the Ire to do that, which doesn't seem very much like something Raoden would do. Plus, he's hiding. 

[The One Who Connects he/him]

16 hours ago, Lord Maelstrom said:

The Sel portion of the CR becomes safe enough for both Hoid (and later Galladon, and probably some IRE members as well) to travel through without dying. I'm fairly sure there is a WoB somewhere that says that some of the IRE members from Secret History came from Sel after the shattering. Probably some who came after the return of Elantris too. I'm taking this to mean that something happens to the shattered pieces, and it could very well be someone's ascension.

Hoid was able to travel though the CR in its dangerous state in order to arrive on Sel. His being in another place does not mean as much as the others do.

The WoB you are referring to is lacking it's question.

Quote

Question

Not really sure what the question exactly is, but it relates to the chasm and breaking AonDor. Seems like the question was written in the book?

Brandon Sanderson

Some are from before, some are from after. They are not all the same age.

If it is about the Ire, then some are pre-Reod(dangerous), and some are after(may/may not be dangerous). This means that there is a way for Elantrians to get into the CR while it was dangerous. This really seems to undermine the whole "travel there is dangerous" shtick that Brandon keeps saying, so I'm unsure.