Lounge II (The Lounge Strikes Back)

[shatteredsmooth]

@Snakenaps that cake is awesome! 

[Silk she/her]

2 hours ago, kais said:

<--- is also a pickle lover. Will fight for pickles.

We seem to be pretty evenly split on this issue. And that, my friends, is the REAL reason this group has lasted ten years.

[Robinski he/him]

5 hours ago, Silk said:

Can I have some feta if @Robinski and @aeromancer get my pickles?

Of course, I appear to have miscalculated on the feta...

4 hours ago, kais said:

<--- is also a pickle lover. Will fight for pickles

...and the pickles. I'm not willing to come to blows over it.

[Robinski he/him]

1 hour ago, Silk said:

We seem to be pretty evenly split on this issue. And that, my friends, is the REAL reason this group has lasted ten years.

I think maybe that might be the next ReCon shirt tag line. ReCon 2: Not fighting over pickles since 2009.

[Mandamon he/him]

Alright, since this is such a hot topic:

Pickles: love them (and make my own during the summer)

Feta: love it. (Also most forms of cheese except blue and stinky)

But you can have all the meat. I'm vegetarian.

[Snakenaps she/her]

1 hour ago, Mandamon said:

But you can have all the meat. I'm vegetarian.

If I even became vegetarian, I think my dad would disown me. 

Not seriously, but I come from a real big meat-eating family. I grew up in the country, so we hunted (humanely and legally, I will add) quite often. Not me, I don't like killing things, because with my bad aim, there was never any guarantee that I'd be able to pull off a one hit shot. 

Dad still buys his wild turkeys, dove, and quail the best grain possible, even if his new property doesn't allow for hunting. Sometimes I think they eat better than he does. 

I think the best part of growing up in a country family is that I grew up with a high respect for where my food comes from. I don't usually buy meat anymore unless I know where it comes from, which I usually can't afford right now anyway. If it comes between buying the cheaper but questionable beef at grocery stores, and going without, I go without. I wish I had more choices with my produce, but at least when I eat an apple, I don't have to worry quite so much about the quality of its life before it was picked. 

[shatteredsmooth]

2 hours ago, Snakenaps said:

I think the best part of growing up in a country family is that I grew up with a high respect for where my food comes from. I don't usually buy meat anymore unless I know where it comes from, which I usually can't afford right now anyway. If it comes between buying the cheaper but questionable beef at grocery stores, and going without, I go without. I wish I had more choices with my produce, but at least when I eat an apple, I don't have to worry quite so much about the quality of its life before it was picked. 

I've never hunted, but I 99% of the meat I buy comes from local farms or at least farms in the New England area that humanely raise their animals. We get a "meat share" from a company that sources the meat from a network of farms and has very high standards about how the animals are raised and what they're fed.  It is not budget friendly at all. It is a privilege and if I were living off my own income and not married to someone who makes more money than me, I could never afford it. Even so, if we had a bigger house, student loan debt, the kind of expenses some of our peers have, we probably couldn't afford it. 

A week or two ago, they sent out this email about how with the COVID-19 issues meat plants were having, their network of small farms was proving far more sustainable than the industrial farm system, and I was thinking "Sustainable for who?" The middle class and the wealthy. My family never would've afforded it while I was growing up. 

[Snakenaps she/her]

9 minutes ago, shatteredsmooth said:

I've never hunted, but I 99% of the meat I buy comes from local farms or at least farms in the New England area that humanely raise their animals. We get a "meat share" from a company that sources the meat from a network of farms and has very high standards about how the animals are raised and what they're fed.  It is not budget friendly at all. It is a privilege and if I were living off my own income and not married to someone who makes more money than me, I could never afford it. Even so, if we had a bigger house, student loan debt, the kind of expenses some of our peers have, we probably couldn't afford it. 

A week or two ago, they sent out this email about how with the COVID-19 issues meat plants were having, their network of small farms was proving far more sustainable than the industrial farm system, and I was thinking "Sustainable for who?" The middle class and the wealthy. My family never would've afforded it while I was growing up. 

For me, it is very interesting to be an adult. I won't lie, I come from an upper-middle-class white family. I've been to more countries than I have states. I come from privilege, even though my parents raised me with an incredibly strong work ethic and pride in what my hands (and mind) can do. They are both very entrepreneurial and gave that to both my sister and I. My sister is getting her business license to start her own online store, and I decided to stop talking about the book I was actually going to write, and just do it. 

But I'm on my own now, and subbing didn't make a ton of money when schools were open. I was lucky to be raised by a financial advisor and an extreme budgeter. I've met few people who are more frugal and penny pinching than me. 

I won't lie, though. It is exhausting. I can only imagine the stress others are under who don't have the advantages I have - whether Covid is happening or not. Somehow, I managed to hit a home run in pretty much every field in life. I'm extremely fortunate and I try to be aware of this.

One day I'll get out of this less-than-stellar apartment in this not-so-great neighborhood, and I'll have a job that allows me to purchase straight from my local farmers. I'm looking forward to being able to boost my local economy and encourage sustainability in more parts of my life. 

My parents are planning to purchase half of a cow (splitting it with their neighbor) from a friend they know. Cow has been grazing on fields its entire life. I'm hoping to snitch a couple of steaks from them.  

I find life interesting, though. My dad's co-worker makes high end six figures, and he's going to have to file for bankruptcy this year. He's in massive amounts of debt from living a lifestyle he can't afford. I just can't wrap my head around that. 

I don't need a mansion or a fancy car. I just want to be able to eat well, live in a good, solid home, travel once or twice a year, and be surrounded by books and family. 

Maybe I'll get lucky and marry that rich cowboy my dad has always dreamed for me. 

Thanks for letting me ramble. I like to talk. 

[shatteredsmooth]

31 minutes ago, Snakenaps said:

I find life interesting, though. My dad's co-worker makes high end six figures, and he's going to have to file for bankruptcy this year. He's in massive amounts of debt from living a lifestyle he can't afford. I just can't wrap my head around that. 

I don't need a mansion or a fancy car. I just want to be able to eat well, live in a good, solid home, travel once or twice a year, and be surrounded by books and family. 

Debt is evil. I've seen family and neighbors struggle with it, and try to avoid it as much as possible. My spouse and I have a mortgage on our house (but with the insurance and taxes rolled in, its the same or a little less than renting a 2-bedroom apartment in our area) , but that's it. Student loans are paid off. No credit card debt. Cars are paid off, though my spouse is getting close to 200,000 miles on his car, so that could change whenever he stops working remotely and starts having an hour commute again.  :-(

42 minutes ago, Snakenaps said:

I don't need a mansion or a fancy car. I just want to be able to eat well, live in a good, solid home, travel once or twice a year, and be surrounded by books and family. 

 

Yes! This. I like my little house, which is more or less solid now, though it wasn't when we bought it.   

We had to replace part of the foundation. This was one of the few things we didn't tackle ourselves. And when the masons or whatever they were were taking it apart, they found trolly parts instead of rebar in some places. 

Don't need a super fancy car. And my spouse keeps finding place to built new book cases, like under the stairs or recessed into the kitchen "closet" which once upon a time was actually a built in ice box. It even had a little door outside that the ice could get delivered through. 

49 minutes ago, Snakenaps said:

Somehow, I managed to hit a home run in pretty much every field in life. I'm extremely fortunate and I try to be aware of this.

I feel this way too. When I think about it, I lived with my parents until I was 25 or 26, so I was able to save a lot and when I moved out, it was when I got married, so I really have had it easy compared to a lot of people. 

50 minutes ago, Snakenaps said:

Thanks for letting me ramble. I like to talk. 

You're welcome. 

But I ramble just as much sometimes.

[Snakenaps she/her]

1 hour ago, shatteredsmooth said:

Yes! This. I like my little house, which is more or less solid now, though it wasn't when we bought it.   

We had to replace part of the foundation. This was one of the few things we didn't tackle ourselves. And when the masons or whatever they were were taking it apart, they found trolly parts instead of rebar in some places. 

Don't need a super fancy car. 

If I could slap a new coat of paint on the walls and replace the carpet, the apartment would look so much better. 

Your foundation story reminds me of my father. He wanted to replace our old swim dock, but didn't want to pay for a new, pre-built one (the former one he had built himself, along with the main dock). His buddy had these fiberglass house boat pontoons which were illegal, because they had to be aluminum. So Dad got these massive pontoons for free, which he cut in half, resealed, and then turned into a dock. A dock with a brick top (easy to clean of goose poo, unlike wood) that somehow it floated. The ramp to the swim dock came from the side of the highway, while our canoe came from the side of the road by the airport. 

My parents hand laid over 10,000 bricks on a very steep hill, often multiple times, because the wild pigs would pull them up. We lived in a double wide mobile home because they wanted to spend their money on land, rather than square footage. Dad drove his Ford Focus into the dirt (he finally sold it when it quit on him on the freeway. Bad wiring) just so that he could buy a tractor. 

My parents scrimped and saved and bought used stuff, so that when they wanted to spend money on something, they could. In my mother's case, that's costumes. My dad prefers 75 mph RC boats. His fastest goes over 85 mph on straightaways. And, of course, traveling with lots of eating (we have food-cations). 

1 hour ago, shatteredsmooth said:

And my spouse keeps finding place to built new book cases, like under the stairs or recessed into the kitchen "closet" which once upon a time was actually a built in ice box. It even had a little door outside that the ice could get delivered through. 

I would kill to be able to shove bookshelves wherever I wanted. For now, books are sprinkled everywhere, including on top of the microwave. 

Edited June 10, 2020 by Snakenaps
What is grammar

[Robinski he/him]

Well, if you're going to start a rambling thread, count me in.

I too feel incredibly lucky with the life I've had. I met the right girl at the right time. She put up with a long-distance relationship for 8 years, moved to Scotland for me and we had wonderful daughter, now married herself and I hope as happy as we are. I joined a company out of university as a young graduate, and 21 years later I owned the company (with two colleagues). That's luck, but also a huge amount of hard work. Ten years later I sold my share. We had a lot of debt in the beginning, but nothing I couldn't service. I just paid off my mortgage last week. I will admit I have the fancy car. I've been a petrolhead all my life, I love cars, and I like to think it's my one extravagance. (My next car will be electric (or Hydrogen cell, if they can get that right)). Despite all that, I am not often happier than when I'm in our garden weeding (and listening to podcasts or audiobooks), planting things or trying to grow vegetables. Being in touch with the earth, it sounds corny to some maybe, but it is a powerful, healing thing. Oh, and there's writing, I suppose.

I like to give back, but I don't do enough. For ten years a volunteered in a charity music shop, but I stopped and have failed to go back. I need to do more. Try harder.

And while I'm in the process of baring (parts of) my soul, I'm sorry I'm such a pain in the burro sometimes on here (all the time?). I get passionate about things really quickly, like 0 to 100 in 2 seconds. I mean well. I want to help things to be the best versions of themselves, and I'm just not very good at moderating my comments sometimes. I always feel guilty after very rant, I promise you, but that doesn't help when you're on the receiving end. Again, I'm sorry.

Thank you for sharing, and listening. You are all awesome.

[Snakenaps she/her]

4 hours ago, Robinski said:

I will admit I have the fancy car. I've been a petrolhead all my life, I love cars, and I like to think it's my one extravagance. (My next car will be electric (or Hydrogen cell, if they can get that right)).

I think we're all allowed our indulgences. I collect model horses, my dad races RC boats, my sister makes Worbla cosplay stuff, my mom has her costumes. My co-teacher from my student teaching? Her weakness is Newfoundland dogs and sports. Her husband, who is also an elementary teacher? Loves to refurbish Corvettes. 

There's a difference between owning a fancy car because you love one, and going into debt for a fancy car to "keep up with the Joneses". 

4 hours ago, Robinski said:

And while I'm in the process of baring (parts of) my soul, I'm sorry I'm such a pain in the burro sometimes on here (all the time?). I get passionate about things really quickly, like 0 to 100 in 2 seconds. I mean well. I want to help things to be the best versions of themselves, and I'm just not very good at moderating my comments sometimes. I always feel guilty after very rant, I promise you, but that doesn't help when you're on the receiving end. Again, I'm sorry.

I've only known you for a whooping three and a half months, but I can say this is probably my favorite thing about you. I know, without a doubt, whatever you say, you mean. There's no pandering, there's no false praise, there's no lies. If you tell me something is right, then I believe you, because when you say something is wrong, you honestly mean it. Do you know how refreshing it is no to have to doubt if someone actually means something when they read my work? I trust you to tell me what you really think. 

I don't think I ever told you this, but @Robinski you're actually the main reason I finally joined this particular group. I had spied on Reading Excuses off-and-on without getting an account for a couple of months, judging the group based off of the comments alone. I decided to choose this group over any other forum because I looked at the nit-pickiness of your lengthy comments and went "This guy gets it. He'll rip me to shreds. I need that." 

Then I ended up getting to know all of you guys and now you're stuck with me, for better or for worse. 

As for passionate rants 1) I think you and I are a matched set and 2) you should meet my family. Family reunions are terrifying. Plus, my best friend is ADHD and really knows how to go 0 to 1000 on a topic in the blink of an eye. I can keep up. 

 

Edited June 11, 2020 by Snakenaps
I can't type today

[Robinski he/him]

Thank you, @Snakenaps. That means a lot. I was not in a good place yesterday and got a bit maudlin with all the sharing.

If I happened to be noisy enough to attracted attention looking in from the outside, I know you know now that there are more considered and insightful voices here, and that the team's true strength is its diversity, its commitment and its sensitivity. Which is why you fit right in  We're very happy to be stuck with you, I'm sure   

[Snakenaps she/her]

7 hours ago, Robinski said:

I was not in a good place yesterday

If you ever need an ear, message me. I'm good for serious rants, or, if you ever need a distraction or are excited, you are more than welcome to send me long essays about Legos, cheese, cars, gardening, or whatever else strikes your fancy. Either way, my (virtual) door is open. 

This applies to anyone and everyone, and I mean it seriously. 

7 hours ago, Robinski said:

I know you know now that there are more considered and insightful voices here, and that the team's true strength is its diversity, its commitment and its sensitivity.

This is so true. I think what is most striking about this group is that everyone is so different than me, and yet, so alike. Foundation-wise, we are all sort of the same: passionate about writing, caring, open-minded.

At the same time, we're completely different: we have pickle lovers and pickle haters, people who are vegetarian, people who play musical instruments, people who live in snow, people who live in burning hot valleys (me), people who have experience writing or using non-traditional pronouns (not me), and more. 

It's fantastic, because it makes me look at not only my own stories, but the world around me, with a new and more appreciative light.

I've told my mother this so many times I'm sure she just wants to smack me over the head, but joining this group was one of my best ideas ever. 

[killersquid]

Hello all,

 

I assume many of you have had a hard time with Covid-19 and related issued. So have I. I just wante to make a quick post to let you all know I'm back and to ask you all the question if it's ok that i've not read the submission that have been sendt the last few months. I have them all in my mailbox, but catching up will be a painfull endeavour. Can i start offering critiques agai nfrom now on or wil i have to go back and read all submissions?

[Mandamon he/him]

4 minutes ago, killersquid said:

I have them all in my mailbox, but catching up will be a painfull endeavour. Can i start offering critiques agai nfrom now on or wil i have to go back and read all submissions?

Absolutely no pressure to read all the past critiques. You can jump in anytime and start fresh!

[Snakenaps she/her]

1 hour ago, killersquid said:

I just wante to make a quick post to let you all know I'm back

Welcome back, my friend!

[Snakenaps she/her]

My roommate moved out yesterday and my arms already feel like sore, numb noodles from scrubbing the apartment. I asked my handyman friend about recaulking part of the bathtub and kitchen count, and he flat out did it for me in return for lunch. So I have learned about caulking today, even if I didn't have to do it myself!

I still can't figure out how to get the food stains off the wall. I've tried soap and water, 409, Clorox bathroom spray, Soft Scrub, Mr. Magic Clean erasers, and water/vinegar solution. 

I'm no where near done, and I'm already exhausted, but I'm feeling good. Turns out just changing out the ancient light switch plates to new bright white ones did wonders.

[shatteredsmooth]

7 hours ago, killersquid said:

Can i start offering critiques agai nfrom now on or wil i have to go back and read all submissions?

You can just jump in. 

I know those of us who are submitting books usually include little summaries of past chapters, so if you haven't read the previous chapters, you can still get a gist of what happened before. 

And in my case, I'd encourage you not to read my previous submissions because I've already made some significant changes to five out of the six chapters I've submitted recently. 

[shatteredsmooth]

On 6/10/2020 at 5:19 PM, Robinski said:

trying to grow vegetables

I like the "trying" part. I also try to grow vegetables.

On 6/10/2020 at 5:19 PM, Robinski said:

but it is a powerful, healing thing

*looks at dirt still stuck under my finger nails even though I scrubbed my hands for a good five minutes*

I 100% agree.

On 6/10/2020 at 5:19 PM, Robinski said:

I get passionate about things really quickly, like 0 to 100 in 2 seconds. I mean well. I want to help things to be the best versions of themselves, and I'm just not very good at moderating my comments sometimes. I always feel guilty after very rant, I promise you, but that doesn't help when you're on the receiving end. Again, I'm sorry.

No need to be sorry! I like your rants. The worst that ever happens is they inspire me to go on my own rant. 

2 hours ago, Snakenaps said:

I'm no where near done, and I'm already exhausted, but I'm feeling good. Turns out just changing out the ancient light switch plates to new bright white ones did wonders.

Little details like that can make a big difference! 

[TheDwarfyOne]

On 10/06/2020 at 3:21 PM, Snakenaps said:

If I even became vegetarian, I think my dad would disown me. 

Not seriously, but I come from a real big meat-eating family. I grew up in the country, so we hunted (humanely and legally, I will add) quite often. Not me, I don't like killing things, because with my bad aim, there was never any guarantee that I'd be able to pull off a one hit shot. 

Dad still buys his wild turkeys, dove, and quail the best grain possible, even if his new property doesn't allow for hunting. Sometimes I think they eat better than he does. 

I think the best part of growing up in a country family is that I grew up with a high respect for where my food comes from. I don't usually buy meat anymore unless I know where it comes from, which I usually can't afford right now anyway. If it comes between buying the cheaper but questionable beef at grocery stores, and going without, I go without. I wish I had more choices with my produce, but at least when I eat an apple, I don't have to worry quite so much about the quality of its life before it was picked. 

I am divided on this issue myself. Living in the country, I've been involved in calving and raising cattle. I still eat and enjoy meat, but when I let myself think about it I feel a certain level of self disgust. Reasoning that the animal was dead whether I ate it or not seems like a bit of a cop out.

I'm against hunting, though mainly because the dominant form near me is fox - ie trophy - hunting. Hunting for food isn't something I would do - I wouldn't want to distress an animal - but I don't view it as morally bad.

My dad is a bit like yours. On one occasion I mentioned that I'd considered becoming vegetarian, and he sort of looked at me sideways and said "you're kidding, right?"

On 10/06/2020 at 7:13 PM, Snakenaps said:

I don't need a mansion or a fancy car. I just want to be able to eat well, live in a good, solid home, travel once or twice a year, and be surrounded by books and family. 

Well that sounds nice. My family and my books are at a certain level of friction. My mum is about to have an aneurysm over the number of my books which have crept into her livingroom.

Oh well, ahaha.

[Snakenaps she/her]

3 hours ago, TheDwarfyOne said:

I'm against hunting, though mainly because the dominant form near me is fox - ie trophy - hunting. 

I'm very much against trophy hunting. If you are taking a life, take it for a good reason, not for vanity. 

My family hunted for two reasons:

1) Population control. We mostly hunted wild boar. A single sow can have, on average, 20 piglets a year (two litters of ten). The average herd size was roughly 6-8 does plus a couple of boars. That's roughly 120-160 piglets a year from one herd, and we had multiple herds. They had no natural predators outside of us and a couple of mountain lions. 

Without population control, the wild boar can quickly run themselves out of food. They are also highly destructive and deadly. They are mean.

When we moved to the Pond, my parents met our neighbor because he came over to specifically give them gore bandages, in case you got mauled by a pig. 

The wild boar issue is actually massive, especially in Texas, Florida, and Hawaii, but affects something like 35 states. My favorite television hunter when I was a child was this fellow who called himself Pig Man. He was a deadly shot - one hit, instant kill (the way I like it, no suffering) - but all of the pigs (once processed) were donated to local food banks. 

2) Food. We ate and used everything we could. Nothing went to waste. If we had too much meat, we gave it to friends rather than saw it tossed in the trash. 

There is something to be said when you know that your food lived a good life, eating acorns and bugs and running around, before one single shot ended its life. 

3 hours ago, TheDwarfyOne said:

Hunting for food isn't something I would do - I wouldn't want to distress an animal - but I don't view it as morally bad.

This is literally the reason why my job was butchering. I knew that I am a terrible shot. My Dad never would have let me hunt, but I never would have taken him up on the offer if I was asked. 

The idea that if I made a mistake (which was likely) and caused an animal suffering because I couldn't manage to drop it on the first shot is horrifying. I adore animals, even those mean boar, and to cause one a slow, painful death was something I could never risk. 

When I was a young child, my Dad had a friend who was an ex-Navy sniper. Dad took him on his word that he was an excellent shot due to his background. Well, the friend didn't drop the pig first shot, or second, or third. The pig screamed, which is probably the most horrific sound I've ever heard. It was so loud our neighbor for a half mile away called and was like, "You huntin' boar?"

After that, Dad made sure people could actually accurately shoot a target before they were allowed to hunt on our property. If you could repeatedly hit a 2 inch by 2 inch square hidden in grass from across a three acre pond, you could hunt. 

Me? That single pig convinced me that I never, ever want to do that to a living being, ever. I have no problem with hunting, as long as it is for a good reason, and that you could do it in one hit. 

My redneck neighbor used to shoot acorn woodpeckers for fun which is 1) illegal and 2) absolutely disgusting. There was no reason to do it, even if he had stupidly good aim. Worse than trophy hunting, because he didn't even do anything with the bodies. Makes me mad just thinking about it. 

Thanks for coming to my Friday rant. 

[TheDwarfyOne]

Why restrict rant day to Friday? That strikes me as an all-week attraction.

The dedication to humane hunting is admirable. My strongest impression of hunters is mounted townsfolk pursuing a baying pack of hounds, shooting and killing whatever animal they come across. For the fun, do not mistake me; not for population control or food. And they have no respect for farm boundaries, so frequently their hounds would terrorise our dogs, notably when they were puppies. They are the type of people who would shoot a boar three times just to hear it scream, because that is the sport they're after.

This is, of course, a different context from your own. I live in Northern Ireland, where the biggest wild animal is probably a hare or fox. Though I believe there might be deer in some places.

I have little experience with animal suffering, thankfully. My dad is a careful farmer who cares for his animals and hates to see them distressed - something which is not as common as it ought to be. He loves and maintains the hedges, trees and bog, giving a place to wild animals as well.

I only know of one animal that suffered. We could not find the bull on one occasion. I was called out to help look for it. We walked up and down the fields, and finally found it, dead. It had been pushed into a ditch by the other cows, and extreme bad luck had it on its back. There was a trickle of water at the bottom of the ditch. The sides of the ditch were grooved where it had kicked, writhed, tried to get up; to no avail. During the night it must have lost strength, because it drowned.

Looking down on the bull has left an indelible mark on my memory.

Well, there's my Friday rant. Thanks for tuning in.

[Snakenaps she/her]

24 minutes ago, TheDwarfyOne said:

My strongest impression of hunters is mounted townsfolk pursuing a baying pack of hounds, shooting and killing whatever animal they come across. For the fun, do not mistake me; not for population control or food. And they have no respect for farm boundaries, so frequently their hounds would terrorise our dogs, notably when they were puppies. They are the type of people who would shoot a boar three times just to hear it scream, because that is the sport they're after.

These are the people who disgust me, that I have little respect for. They're the ones who spoil the reputations of the good hunters out there. 

But I suppose that is a good reflection on humanity. There are always the rotten eggs. 

26 minutes ago, TheDwarfyOne said:

I live in Northern Ireland

I love how this group is international!

I'm from Northern California, on the edge of the Central Valley and the Sierra Nevada. I know we have members from Scotland, North Carolina, Massachusetts, Oregon, and somebody was from Poland, but I can't remember who.

I've only been to Southern Ireland. Stunningly gorgeous country, except I'll never go back to the Cliffs of Moher. I'm scared to death of unsafe heights, and I spent that entire visit clutching my mother like I was five. 

[TheDwarfyOne]

I hear ye on the heights thing. I'd love to visit America, but haven't yet.

You should try out Northern Ireland at some point. I'm low key in love with it, and it's notably different from the Republic.