Dalinar's shardplate

[windrunningmistborn]

I'm re-reading TWoK - my first was an audible listen, amazed how much I missed.

Anyhoo, I'm about a third of the way through and there are a couple of passing remarks about Dalinar's shardplate that seem interesting.

"As the sky spun, something seemed to right, as if the plate itself knew which way was up"

"[Dalinar's shardplate sabatons] encased his boots entirely and had a rough surface on the bottoms that seemed to cling to the rock."

The first is a feature of gravitation, the second is a feature of adhesion. The way I see it :

- these remarks are insignificant or

- Dalinar's shardplate is a former windrunner or

- all shardplates are of windrunners, and are therefore possibly made from honorspren.

I searched the WoBs but found nobody who's asked about this.

Thoughts? 

Edited May 18, 2017 by windrunningmistborn

[The Sovereign]

Good catch, I suspect you may be right about his plate being a former Windrunner's Plate.

As for Plate being made from Honor Spren, this seems unlikely. The reality is we don't know how Plate is made (or even what it is exactly), however due to the lack of screaming when touched by a Radiant and how it is not viewed with animosity by Spren we can guess that it probably isn't a dead Spren like the Shardblades.

[platnumkid]

I agree, excellent catch, prob windrunner plate.

[Fulminato he/him]

in the same chapter "Dalinar charged toward the king, moving with a speed and grace no man—not even one wearing Shardplate—should be able to manage." and "Dalinar held back the claw and matched its strength, a figure in dark, silvery metal that almost seemed to glow."

the first quote areshow somehow similarity to a pewter mistling, and the second think is relate to the proto-radiant state of Dalinar.  don't think there are some link to the power of the plate now and the order of the former radiant how 'born/builld' the suit.

Edited May 18, 2017 by Fulminato

[windrunningmistborn]

Even if my idea proves false, we can assume there are some features all plate have in common. Picking and choosing evidence that fits the theory is not enough, so thanks for objecting. 

But here, again, fast speed is a possible side effect of adhesion (just like Lift, zipping around and ignoring friction), and the immense strength is clearly driven here by the need to protect Elhokar, and look at the ideals of the windrunners. 

It looks like you were trying to oppose my idea, but if anything you've just presented more evidence for it. 

Edited May 18, 2017 by windrunningmistborn

[The One Who Connects he/him]

32 minutes ago, windrunningmistborn said:

But here, again, fast speed is a possible side effect of adhesion (just like Lift, zipping around and ignoring friction)

Lift has Abrasion actually. Windrunner have Adhesion, which doesn't actually equate to speed(that's what basic lashings are for)

[Steeldancer he/him]

Couldn't it just be the benefits of the shardplate? Including the whole adolins blocks out the lightning thing?

[windrunningmistborn]

There's also something else that just occurred to me. Dalinar tells Adolin that he and Sadeas made a vow to protect Elhokar. If anything would make a windrunner's plate work better, or should be a vow to protect.

You're right about the fast speed, that's about friction, not adhesion. It's not a complete picture yet, but I like the jigsaw pieces so far. 

[windrunningmistborn]

Oh, duh, the increased speed would be a multiple lashing...

 

[edit] Yeah, so while it is looking like this works, and there is some evidence for the idea... It poses a bigger question :

If this theory holds water, why can Dalinar use these abilities? He'd be a Bondsmith, not a Windrunner.

Also, a shardblade doesn't grant surges, but plate does? Is this some new info on how plates work? Or is this just part of the Bondsmith's "unique abilities".

 

[edit 2] oh, I think it's in the name - bondsmith, ie someone good at bonding. They can make bonds, even with dead plate.

In fact, this is really compelling. I'm gonna watch closely for evidence that he uses surges from his blade too. 

Edited May 18, 2017 by windrunningmistborn
More

[The One Who Connects he/him]

I am now officially imparting my first Occam's Razor.

Shardplate and Stormlight share a similarity in that they both augment the user's physical capabilities. We know that Dalinar has more than likely subconsciously drawn in Stormlight before(his shoulder) and we know that Kaladin did this multiple times.

As the quote @Fulminato provided implies:

Quote

"Dalinar charged toward the king, moving with a speed and grace no man—not even one wearing Shardplate—should be able to manage."

Shardplate enhances the wearer's speed somewhat. Dalinar could've subconsciously drawn in Stormlight in his rush to go protect Elhokar from the Chasmfiend, and the enhanced speed provided by Stormlight added to the boost provided by Plate(which makes sense for KR to have yet another thing going for them against Thunderclasts)

This could account for his notable Speed events unless there was a spot where he was tremendously fast but not in a sense of danger where he would draw in Stormlight.

---

I don't have a real counter argument for his Plate knowing which way is up, but there may be something about the traction of his Sabatons. Rough surfaces that seem to cling to rock? Could this simply be the natural consequence of a rough surface(friction/drag) but enhanced by the mystical properties of Shardplate? (I realize that you could consider this as evidence towards it being Dustbringer/Edgedancer plate, but I feel like this should be something they can all do, since sure footing is always important in battle)

[Farnsworth]

I think it's unlikely that the plate is made of Honorspren, otherwise Kaladin would have heard it screaming. I think it has more to do with Dalinar becoming a Bondsmith. Adhesion is also a Surge of Bondsmiths, and the Plate "righting" itself could easily be a feature of all plate. It doesn't seem to correspond with Gravitation, because Gravitation is creating your own gravity where as righting yourself is reacting to the existing gravity.

[BrightVoid he/him]

One possibility is that plate has minor benefits corresponding with all ten surges, not just from the two that belonged to the former radiant.  So far the surges I have seen so far are Gravitation (self righting feature), abrasion (sticky boots and possibly speed), and Progression (the way the plate regenerates from chunks).  We have not seen the surges of intermolecular forces such as Tension, but this might explain the Plates durability.

[Fulminato he/him]

21 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

I don't have a real counter argument for his Plate knowing which way is up, but there may be something about the traction of his Sabatons. Rough surfaces that seem to cling to rock? Could this simply be the natural consequence of a rough surface(friction/drag) but enhanced by the mystical properties of Shardplate? (I realize that you could consider this as evidence towards it being Dustbringer/Edgedancer plate, but I feel like this should be something they can all do, since sure footing is always important in battle)

 

the plate are tied to the cognitive realm. it can regrow, even it only the smallest piece remain. In my opinion the plate can 'know' probably because the colletive of human mind think how the plate 'shuld' behave.

[CaptainRyan he/him]

53 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

 

I am now officially imparting my first Occam's Razor.

Shardplate and Stormlight share a similarity in that they both augment the user's physical capabilities. We know that Dalinar has more than likely subconsciously drawn in Stormlight before(his shoulder) and we know that Kaladin did this multiple times.

As the quote @Fulminato provided implies:

Quote

"Dalinar charged toward the king, moving with a speed and grace no man—not even one wearing Shardplate—should be able to manage."

Shardplate enhances the wearer's speed somewhat. Dalinar could've subconsciously drawn in Stormlight in his rush to go protect Elhokar from the Chasmfiend, and the enhanced speed provided by Stormlight added to the boost provided by Plate(which makes sense for KR to have yet another thing going for them against Thunderclasts)

 

Came here to say this but @The One Who Connects already did. So, uh, ditto.

[Radiant_Jaeger he/him]

3 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

I am now officially imparting my first Occam's Razor.

Shardplate and Stormlight share a similarity in that they both augment the user's physical capabilities. We know that Dalinar has more than likely subconsciously drawn in Stormlight before(his shoulder) and we know that Kaladin did this multiple times.

As the quote @Fulminato provided implies:

Shardplate enhances the wearer's speed somewhat. Dalinar could've subconsciously drawn in Stormlight in his rush to go protect Elhokar from the Chasmfiend, and the enhanced speed provided by Stormlight added to the boost provided by Plate(which makes sense for KR to have yet another thing going for them against Thunderclasts)

This could account for his notable Speed events unless there was a spot where he was tremendously fast but not in a sense of danger where he would draw in Stormlight.

---

I don't have a real counter argument for his Plate knowing which way is up, but there may be something about the traction of his Sabatons. Rough surfaces that seem to cling to rock? Could this simply be the natural consequence of a rough surface(friction/drag) but enhanced by the mystical properties of Shardplate? (I realize that you could consider this as evidence towards it being Dustbringer/Edgedancer plate, but I feel like this should be something they can all do, since sure footing is always important in battle)

Remember! Bondsmiths have tensionn and adhesion so perhaps this gave his plate more strength then usual Allowing him to increase the tensile strength of his plate. Also this is my favorite scene in the books just because of the desperate bravery involved, and how it really showed me for the first time how strong the bond between Dalinar and Gavilar really was.

EDIT: Also if he decreased the tensile strength and upped the flexibility this could explain the extra speed along with the normal stormlight enhanced bodies of Radiants.

Edited May 18, 2017 by Radiant_Jaeger

[Kitch]

The adhesion that was happening was coming from Dalinar I believe, not inherently the plate. I think what we'll see is that plate allows a surge binder to "extend" their surges without clothing or armor in the way. When Kalidin was training, he had to take off his shoes to apply stormlight to the ground. If he had plate on, he'd be able to apply it through the plate.

[18th Shard he/him]

21 minutes ago, Kitch said:

The adhesion that was happening was coming from Dalinar I believe, not inherently the plate. I think what we'll see is that plate allows a surge binder to "extend" their surges without clothing or armor in the way. When Kalidin was training, he had to take off his shoes to apply stormlight to the ground. If he had plate on, he'd be able to apply it through the plate.

Szeth specifically notes in his POV that this is incorrect, that plate interferes with his capability to Lash others. This may be different if one is using their own plate (i.e. the one created by a Radiant used by that Radiant), but in this case would be incorrect.

[Fulminato he/him]

43 minutes ago, 18th Shard said:

Szeth specifically notes in his POV that this is incorrect, that plate interferes with his capability to Lash others. This may be different if one is using their own plate (i.e. the one created by a Radiant used by that Radiant), but in this case would be incorrect.

the infuse gemstone used to power the plate. invested object don't interact well with another power (coinshot o lurcher had some problem to push/pull a feruchemist metalmind)

[Calderis he/him]

48 minutes ago, 18th Shard said:

Szeth specifically notes in his POV that this is incorrect, that plate interferes with his capability to Lash others. This may be different if one is using their own plate (i.e. the one created by a Radiant used by that Radiant), but in this case would be incorrect.

Or it may be a downside of the Honorblades. The Heralds never had plate. We've seen Dalinar's Plate "almost seem to glow" so I don't think @Kitch's idea is unreasonable. 

[Fulminato he/him]

29 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Or it may be a downside of the Honorblades. The Heralds never had plate. We've seen Dalinar's Plate "almost seem to glow" so I don't think @Kitch's idea is unreasonable. 

don't think dalinar surgebind, he used the strenght and speed stormlight enhanced plus the normal power the plate lend. the helm kaladin use in the dueling ground feed in the stormlight kaladin drew to the sphere and many shardblade hit don't shattered the helm (a section of plate can hold two/three hit), so the dalinar plate use the light to hold themself and match the chasmfiend blow. 

Edited May 18, 2017 by Fulminato

[Steeldancer he/him]

1 hour ago, Fulminato said:

the infuse gemstone used to power the plate. invested object don't interact well with another power (coinshot o lurcher had some problem to push/pull a feruchemist metalmind)

I think this issue will be solved for active radiants. I don't think live shardplate will interfere as much. 

[Fulminato he/him]

1 hour ago, The Flash said:

I think this issue will be solved for active radiants. I don't think live shardplate will interfere as much. 

we have a WoB on the matter 

Quote

INTERVIEW: Sep, 2012

Cosmere Q&A - 17th Shard (Verbatim)

PRICKLYBEAR

Is there a functional/structural difference between modern-day Shardplate and the stuff the Radiants wore? Did the Radiants have to use infused gems to keep their suits going or could they just 'breathe in' Stormlight and feed the suit off of their 'inhaled' reserves?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Something is different. You will find out what.

i think the main difference is the lack of gemstone to powered the plate.

Edited May 18, 2017 by Fulminato

[Tesh Any pronouns]

Those are probably just attributes of shardplate, though I do get where you got that idea. It's a good one to.

[Radiant_Jaeger he/him]

On 5/18/2017 at 4:37 PM, Fulminato said:

we have a WoB on the matter 

i think the main difference is the lack of gemstone to powered the plate.

I bet it will have gemstones to act as fuel sources for the leaking Stormlight from Radiants

[platnumkid]

Just to summarize and give my thoughts, there are 3 events where Dalinar's plate is described to do something seemingly extraordinary, even for shardplate.  The OP contends that these examples show that Dalinar's plate once belonged to a Windrunner.  The 3 quotes were:

1. "As the sky spun, something seemed to right, as if the plate itself knew which way was up" 

this may be inherent to all shard plate, like how Adolin's plate covers the void bringer lightning so he isn't blinded by it, but I personally feel it is not the case.  When Adolin is knocked from Sureblood the world spins and there is no mention of the plate righting itself.  He does get back to his feet very quickly, but there is no indication the plate helped him achieve this.  In fact he uses the sight of Sureblood to help orient himself.  Therefore I believe it is a sign of the surge of gravitation at work in Dalinar's plate but not Adolin's.

2. "[Dalinar's shardplate sabatons] encased his boots entirely and had a rough surface on the bottoms that seemed to cling to the rock."

The question here is whether this is just something all plate can do, just the plate of a Radiant that had the surge of adhesion or did Dalinar surgbind?  I believe we can rule out Dalinar as the cause.  While we know intention is very important and we see Kaladin accidentally use gravitation to avoid landing in a puddle, and it can be argued that Dalinar wanted to stop sliding so badly that he unconsciously surgebound, we just have no evidence that this is possible so early in his progression to becoming a KR.  We know the use of stormlight is possible before attracting a spren and even before the first ideal, but Kaladin doesn't begin surgebinding until he's accepted the first ideal.  Also Kaladin needed to be barefoot to use adhesion with his feet, Dalinar had shoes/boots on under his plate.  I'm about 60% this is special property of Dalinar's plate, 40% this is just standard shardplate awesomeness.

3. "Dalinar charged toward the king, moving with a speed and grace no man—not even one wearing Shardplate—should be able to manage."

I'm not even going to recap the theories on this one.  I feel this is clearly Dalinar unintentionally using stormlight to run faster and be more coordinated and agile which is described as graceful in the quote.  We know he was doing it at points in the past, it's silly to assume that he was using stormlight but in this instance that so directly lines up with the benefits of stormlight something else was at play.

 

TL:DR - Dalinar's plate uses gravitation to right itself, Adolin's doesn't.  Dalinar is not surgebinding to make his sabatons cling to rock, 60/40 specific to his plate vs. all plate.  Dalinar uses stormlight to run faster and more gracefully to Elhokar's aid.