Dalinar's shardplate

[Calderis he/him]

5 hours ago, platnumkid said:

While we know intention is very important and we see Kaladin accidentally use gravitation to avoid landing in a puddle, and it can be argued that Dalinar wanted to stop sliding so badly that he unconsciously surgebound, we just have no evidence that this is possible so early in his progression to becoming a KR.  We know the use of stormlight is possible before attracting a spren and even before the first ideal, but Kaladin doesn't begin surgebinding until he's accepted the first ideal.

Whoa whoa whoa... Kaladin doesn't begin consciously surgebinding before he speaks the first ideal that we see on screen. Which is the second.

We have no idea how long Kaladin has been unconsciously surgebinding, but I think he was unknowingly taking in small amounts of stormlight all the way back in Amaram's army. When the air seems to warp around him and he moves ridiculously fast protecting Cenn I believe that he had just enough stormlight to not be visibly glowing.

The first ideal, the universal ideal, seems to function differently than all the others. It doesn't appear to need to be spoken. Living by the first ideal is what seems to attract a spren in the first place. All abilities, including drawing in stormlight, require a bond. Syl was already with Kal back in the army.

Throughout the whole of our experience seeing Dalinar's perspective, he has already chosen to live by the codes and maintain a way of life that fits the first ideal, and his visions from the storms show that he already has a bond with the Stormfather. 

The possibility of Dalinar subconsciously surgebinding can not be eliminated. 

Edited May 21, 2017 by Calderis

[platnumkid]

On 5/21/2017 at 2:41 PM, Calderis said:

Whoa whoa whoa... Kaladin doesn't begin consciously surgebinding before he speaks the first ideal that we see on screen. Which is the second.

Kaladin begins surgebinding on purpose when he climbs his own rock ladder to tie the sack of armour to the bottom of the bridge (chapter 59 WoK).  He says the second ideal while flying across the chasm in chapter 67.  Incidentally he actually says the first ideal on screen in chapter 59 just before trying to climb the chasm, but I agree with you that he was living by it before that as Syl doesn't make a big deal about it when he says it there like she does about the second and third.

Dalinar may be following the codes but he's not living by the first Ideal at this time.  Leading a chasmfiend run is not choosing life before death.  He could be surgebinding, we just dont know.  I feel it is unlikely though.

[Calderis he/him]

1 minute ago, platnumkid said:

Kaladin begins surgebinding on purpose when he climbs his own rock ladder to tie the sack of armour to the bottom of the bridge (chapter 59 WoK).  He says the second ideal while flying across the chasm in chapter 67.  Incidentally he actually says the first ideal on screen in chapter 59 just before trying to climb the chasm, but I agree with you that he was living by it before that as Syl doesn't make a big deal about it when he says it there like she does about the second and third.

Dalinar may be following the codes but he's not living by the first Ideal at this time.  Leading a chasmfiend run is not choosing life before death.  He could be surgebinding, we just dont know.  I feel it is unlikely though.

Here's where the big thing about the ideals being subjective comes in. He was living by the ideals in that the hunt was meant to strengthen Elhokar's rule, by both boosting his confidence, and his appearance in the eyes of the Alethi court. A normal hunt doesn't fall apart the way that one did, and there wouldn't have been casualties. It was an act meant to strengthen and unite the Alethi behind their king.

It's been shown that different orders will have different ideas of honor. And that upholding the Oaths ID very individual in nature. I think the fact that Dalinar was receiving the visions before we see his perspective start in tWoK means that Dalinar has been a proto-bondsmith since before the books main timeline started. 

[Fulminato he/him]

12 hours ago, Calderis said:

Here's where the big thing about the ideals being subjective comes in. He was living by the ideals in that the hunt was meant to strengthen Elhokar's rule, by both boosting his confidence, and his appearance in the eyes of the Alethi court. A normal hunt doesn't fall apart the way that one did, and there wouldn't have been casualties. It was an act meant to strengthen and unite the Alethi behind their king.

It's been shown that different orders will have different ideas of honor. And that upholding the Oaths ID very individual in nature. I think the fact that Dalinar was receiving the visions before we see his perspective start in tWoK means that Dalinar has been a proto-bondsmith since before the books main timeline started. 

the hunt have a secondary goal to the remember the king's power to vamah (the cost of soulcasted wood)

Edited May 23, 2017 by Fulminato