DSC01 he/him Posted March 24, 2017 Posted March 24, 2017 3 hours ago, Matthew Scanlon said: I thought he was blurry because of the powers given to him by the sword Nightblood. But I'm sure I am wrong I initially thought that it probably had something to do with Nightblood. Even though we never see anything like that in Warbreaker, I figured that Lift can just see things that others can't. As I thought about it, though, I came to the same conclusion that others here did--yes, Lift was seeing something that no one else can, but it has nothing to do with Nightblood. Szeth was resurrected by a fabrial. I'm sure that it was one advanced fabrial, compared to others that we've seen, but it's still a pretty basic magical machine stapling his soul back to his body (or however you want to describe that). Yeah, there's no lag with Gawx, that we know of, but he didn't get brought back by a magic machine; he got brought back by pure magic. There is some doubt as to whether or not he was actually truly dead, but the actual Regrowth Surge, wielded by a Radiant, probably still works better than a machine cobbled together to harness that Surge.
Jondesu he/him Posted March 25, 2017 Posted March 25, 2017 Szeth' afterimages have been confirmed to be because of the way he was brought back, apparently. This isn't the WoB technically, but a paraphrase from the person who either asked or was recording the event:
JediofChrist Posted March 25, 2017 Posted March 25, 2017 I have a thought. We see Szeth' afterimage, and the first thing I thought of was the "ghosts" in Shadows for Silence. They seemed to be described the same way, with some sort of lagg behind them. Could they be the same thing?
Kingsdaughter613 she/her Posted March 27, 2017 Posted March 27, 2017 Oddly, I read this as Szeth suffering brain damage from being dead for a few minutes before Nail showed up with the magical AED. So his Cognitive self is whole, but his Physical self is not and the two are having trouble communicating... No idea if that makes any sense though. How DOES brain damage work in the Cosmere?
The One Who Connects he/him Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 (edited) 20 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said: How DOES brain damage work in the Cosmere? Alloy of Law Spoilers (I think, might've been a related WoB) Spoiler Miles double-gold healing lets him get away with not breathing because it heals the brain cell death from lack of oxygen, So.. healing should be able to fix that Edited March 28, 2017 by The One Who Connects did a quote box.
Kingsdaughter613 she/her Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 Restoring the cells back to the prior state doesn't necessarily mean what was lost is restored. My feeling is that memory is really stored in the Cognitive and that the brain acts as a receiver. TBIs mess with the receiver. When the brain dies the connection is broken. In between, I think, is what happens when the brain begins to die.I think at that point the connection between Cognitive and Physical begins to fray at the rate of brain death. Vegetative states would then be possible in the Cosmere, with the added twist that the Soul is still connected to the Physical even if the Cognitive isn't. Spoiler Now, if we got ahold of a connection spike... Note that Nail specifically mentions that Szeth's brain was still alive. We have also only seen gold healing done immediately post or during the TBI, when only the receiver is damaged. The tissue hasn't actually started to die yet or has just died. Gold healing is likely more comprehensive though, as it is a spiritual healing ultimately and Connection is spiritual. It's possible that the magic AED isn't. If it just heals on the Physical, or Physical and Cognitive but not Spiritual, then my theory still makes sense. (As you can see, I've clearly been trying to figure out how brain damage works in the Cosmere. We know psychosis allows people to see into other realms. (Not mental illness in general, because Kaladin could do it then.) I'm still trying to figure that one out... best guess is that their Connections are confused, like the link between Spiritual and Physical is crossing over the one between Physical and Cognitive.)
Yata he/him Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 I see It differently. Brain damage works only as an interpreter error in the Short time. After a while this could really affect your cognitive self. You don't lose the Connection between mind and body while you are alive. Simply your cognitive has a faulty interfacce. The only istance of separation between Aspects is Upon Death when the physical self began to separate with the test and After a while if not healed the ties are completely cutted. Nale refer to this to Szeth. "I healed you Before your mind was fine for good". I don't think Szeth'brain was really relevant here....He falled from the Sky into a storm in Rocks. He was damaged for good
Farnsworth Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 I got RAFOed at a signing when I asked if he was a real radiant. 1
Djarskublar he/him Posted April 10, 2017 Posted April 10, 2017 On 3/12/2017 at 3:29 PM, Extesian said: Brandon has said there's a difference between dead and mostly dead. We know that there's a time gap between physical death, staying in the cognitive realm and passing on to the Beyond. My take is that Szeth died physically, but was resurrected from the cognitive realm or possibly just as he was passing from it. I think this happened so that, if he was actually bound to the oathstone (which is possible with Honor's binding systems and perception mattering) that bond could be severed. But I have my doubts a fabrial would fully create a cognitive shadow. Whereas returned are true cognitive shadows, their soul is stapled back into their dead body from the Beyond. I believe Szeth, like a Returned, would need a regular intake of investiture to keep his soul stapled to his body and we know Szeth cannot access stormlight any more. Gawx I think was simply healed while he was still fully in the cognitive realm. I can't be sure of that but barring a WoB I haven't seen, I'm pretty confident of that. This emphasized part isn't true. The Beyond is, well, beyond even the Shards. That's kind of the point. If we know a character has passed beyond, we know they are truly dead and aren't ever coming back. This is a device Brandon is using so he can play with deity in the form of Shards, but with the potential for a 'true' god in the Beyond. He intends to never tell us what is in the Beyond because he wants us to headcanon it however we like individually. More likely, Endowment stalls their passing on until they decide to Return or not. If they do decide to Return, she stuffs them back in their body with a divine breath. 1
+Extesian he/him Posted April 10, 2017 Posted April 10, 2017 Quite right @Djarskublar, I had a brief brain fade with that part I think.
Radiant_Jaeger he/him Posted April 24, 2017 Posted April 24, 2017 Well I'm not sure about his life status, But one thing I KNOW we can all agree on, is that Szeth is righteously pissed.
Erunion he/him Posted April 24, 2017 Posted April 24, 2017 Remember when discussing Szeth/etc., you can rescue a human within 15 minutes or so of death using CPR (if you wait longer than 4 minutes to start though, you can expect brain damage - but that can be healed by investiture in the Cosmere). Likely in-canon, that's roughly the point where the cognitive self ceases to be re-attachable by normal means, and starts to wander off into the beyond (although they can go sooner, thereby preventing any resurrection - see M:SH for examples of both). I think we can say with some confidence that Endowment holds the Returned from moving on, giving them their option to Return. Therefore, I think that one of two things happened to Szeth - either a fully effective healing method was used, but his soul was starting to wander into the 'sun', starting to fade (like shown in M:SH) - into the Beyond, and as such isn't wholly there anymore, or more likely that the method used to return his Cognitive Self to his body wasn't 100% effective, that it was a jury-rigged and slapped together and therefore isn't quite... right.
Radiant_Jaeger he/him Posted April 24, 2017 Posted April 24, 2017 OOOOOOOOOOR and here is a SCARY THOUGHT! Could Szeth be a Returned? What with Nightblood and everything
Andy92 Posted April 25, 2017 Posted April 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Radiant_Jaeger said: OOOOOOOOOOR and here is a SCARY THOUGHT! Could Szeth be a Returned? What with Nightblood and everything Returned need one breath per week to stay alive though which doesn't exactly seem viable on Roshar.
The One Who Connects he/him Posted April 25, 2017 Posted April 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Andy92 said: Returned need one breath per week to stay alive though which doesn't exactly seem viable on Roshar. You forget that said breath restriction is precisely why Vasher went to Roshar. Stormlight is a much easier to attain substitute. That said, there was a WoB that Szeth couldn't draw in Stormlight for a while(regarding his new sword feeding on Investiture), so it doesn't seem likely that he counts as the Rosharan version of Returned
Radiant_Jaeger he/him Posted April 25, 2017 Posted April 25, 2017 15 hours ago, The One Who Connects said: You forget that said breath restriction is precisely why Vasher went to Roshar. Stormlight is a much easier to attain substitute. That said, there was a WoB that Szeth couldn't draw in Stormlight for a while(regarding his new sword feeding on Investiture), so it doesn't seem likely that he counts as the Rosharan version of Returned Hmmmm, the weird artifabrian also goes against this. No solid evidence except for relation to Nightblood. Maybe Szeth is now a Rosharan returned, needing stormlight every day to stay alive, and if he uses the sword too much its lights out (lol literally).
The One Who Connects he/him Posted April 25, 2017 Posted April 25, 2017 21 minutes ago, Radiant_Jaeger said: Maybe Szeth is now a Rosharan returned, needing Stormlight every day to stay alive, and if he uses the sword too much its lights out. My point in bringing the WoB up was that Brandon has noted the existence of a semi-decent chunk of time where he could not draw in Stormlight at all. It's the most definitive evidence we have against him being some form of Returned. As a side note: Anyone will go lights out if they use Nightbood too much.
Crucible of Shards he/him Posted April 27, 2017 Posted April 27, 2017 Regarding Szeth's possible need for stormlight in order to sustain himself, we know that Vasher has a method of obtaining stormlight without a spren bond. So there is at least one viable way to intake the investiture he would theoretically need without a spren. Whether Nale is aware of this and able to relate this knowledge to Szeth is another thing entirely.
Yata he/him Posted April 29, 2017 Posted April 29, 2017 (edited) On 27/4/2017 at 5:05 PM, Crucible of Shards said: Regarding Szeth's possible need for stormlight in order to sustain himself, we know that Vasher has a method of obtaining stormlight without a spren bond. So there is at least one viable way to intake the investiture he would theoretically need without a spren. Whether Nale is aware of this and able to relate this knowledge to Szeth is another thing entirely. Szeth isn't a Cognitive Shadow, the mere fact Nale was able to revive him with a Progression Fabrial is Just enough. Cognitive Shadows are beings Who Lost their ties to the physical but thanks to the Investiture that filled their souls are able to avoid the pull of the Beyond. Nale Will be unable to revive him if the physical ties were gone. On a last note, we KNOW Szeth isn't able to access to Investiture at the moment, Your premise of Investiture need (indipendent from be a Cognitive Shadow) falls too. Edited May 4, 2017 by Yata
Steeldancer he/him Posted May 4, 2017 Posted May 4, 2017 On 3/12/2017 at 5:29 PM, Extesian said: Brandon has said there's a difference between dead and mostly dead. We know that there's a time gap between physical death, staying in the cognitive realm and passing on to the Beyond. My take is that Szeth died physically, but was resurrected from the cognitive realm or possibly just as he was passing from it. I think this happened so that, if he was actually bound to the oathstone (which is possible with Honor's binding systems and perception mattering) that bond could be severed. But I have my doubts a fabrial would fully create a cognitive shadow. Whereas returned are true cognitive shadows, their soul is stapled back into their dead body from the Beyond. I believe Szeth, like a Returned, would need a regular intake of investiture to keep his soul stapled to his body and we know Szeth cannot access stormlight any more. Gawx I think was simply healed while he was still fully in the cognitive realm. I can't be sure of that but barring a WoB I haven't seen, I'm pretty confident of that. Well of course there is a difference! We learned that in the Princess Bride!
+Extesian he/him Posted May 4, 2017 Posted May 4, 2017 23 minutes ago, The Flash said: Well of course there is a difference! We learned that in the Princess Bride! I like to think it was deliberate on his part. Or is that...inconceivable 1
Steeldancer he/him Posted May 4, 2017 Posted May 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Extesian said: I like to think it was deliberate on his part. Or is that...inconceivable I see what you did there. Upvote
red032 he/him Posted May 4, 2017 Posted May 4, 2017 (edited) On 10/02/2017 at 6:15 PM, grasshoppa said: Uh.."conscience". I feel quotes are called for in this instance. A sword with "insolence" maybe? Nightblood is a piece hard to swalow. It (he..?) is not with the bad or the good guys. He is with the chaotic ones. Edited May 4, 2017 by red032
Sheridan_rd Posted May 4, 2017 Posted May 4, 2017 On 3/24/2017 at 0:35 PM, Matthew Scanlon said: I thought he was blurry because of the powers given to him by the sword Nightblood. But I'm sure I am wrong When reading Edgedancer I thought Lift was describing a Biochromatic aura. In her "Lift dialect". I hadn't considered only she could see the after image
vikorr Posted July 12, 2017 Posted July 12, 2017 I have a guess regarding the difference: There are stages to death: 1. Dying 2. Dead 3. Soul in the holding world (for want of a better word) 4. Soul gets sucked to the beyond 2 & 3 could happen instantaneously after each other, but they are distinct stages. What occurs between 3 & 4 is that the call to the beyond grows. With these stages in mind - there is a difference in time before the resurrections of Gawx and Szeth. Gawx was either dying (brain function but essentially dead), or only just dead. Lift was there on site to apply regrowth. As a secondary part -, she used an innate ability. Szeth was dead for some time - having his soul severed by the shardblade, then falling away into the storm, before Nale could get to him. As a secondary part - Nale used a fabrial (which may not perfectly match innate abilities) From here...the basis for the difference becomes a bit more sketchy - but the important thing is there was a difference in timeline between the two ressurections, which places the soul at different stages during the resurrections.
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