Full Edgedancer Reaction Thread [Edgedancer Spoilers]

[DSC01 he/him]

On 11/28/2016 at 11:36 AM, Argent said:

I personally wouldn't read too much into this, as I believe there is a real world equivalent to this philosophy, which is what I think Arclo is mirroring here.

Well, that's true of just about everything in the Cosmere. I only mean that it is a recurring theme in the Cosmere, which is kind of related to the greater theme of, "What happens when normal people get godlike powers?" I would definitely not try to draw a direct connection between The Emperor's Soul and what Arclo said, beyond the themes being similar.

[Releaser]

On 11/28/2016 at 8:19 AM, thejopen27 said:

Szeth having questions is good. He was too sure when he was Truthless. I actually don't think Szeth will end up as a Skybreaker. I think mindlessly following laws will not hold appeal for Szeth anymore. Maybe Dustbringer?

I like your reason for him not becoming a skybreaker. Like many are saying maybe Nightblood will be able to choose his surges instead of having to adopt the way of the skybreaker. Though he does seem like a skybreaker shardblade, out to destroy evil. Plus Szeth already knows how to use the surge gravitation for what ever that's worth. 

[Stark he/him]

10 minutes ago, Releaser said:

Though he does seem like a skybreaker shardblade, out to destroy evil. 

I disagree.  Lawful Evil follows the laws to the letter, if not the spirit, using them to its advantage.  A Lawful Evil entity would not be a target of the Skybreakers, to my mind, as they follow the law.  A cruel military dictator states what is law for those under them to follow.  While Skybreakers seem to dedicate themselves to a personal code of ethics rather than the strict rule of Law in the area they happen to be in, they do not disrespect the Law, and work within its confines to adhere to their Code.

 

Nightblood's rather simplistic Command of "Destroy Evil" is far, far to chaotic for a strict code bound group like the Skybreakers.  There is so much evil in the world that is protected by and uses the laws that would be untouchable by the Skybreakers, unless provided a writ from a King.  And even then, they would need to justify the killing with something more concrete than "He/She was evil!" were they to act.  Nightblood does not have this restriction.  It wants to kill all evil, law abiding or no.

 

To me, not a good Skybreaker mentality, even if it is a mechanical construct that emulates a Spren.  I don't see Szeth sticking with the Skybreakers, even though he excels at adhering to a personal code regardless of the cost to himself, because he knows the risk of following blindly and abdicating responsibility to something greater.  And Nightblood is too chaotic to fit that ideal.

 

I think these two are slotted for something different.  Not sure which order, if any.  Who knows what Nightblood will grant to Szeth if they manage to bond.

[Amanuensis he/him]

I am of the opinion that Szeth will become something akin to a Radiant without adhering to any of the 10 Orders. Also, to quote the text from the back cover of WoK...

Quote

 

 

The first is the surgeon, forced to put aside healing to become a soldier in the most brutal war of our time. The second is the assassin, a murderer who weeps as he kills. The third is the liar, a young woman who wears a scholar’s mantle over the heart of a thief. The last is the highprince, a warlord whose eyes have opened to the past as his thirst for battle wanes.

The world can change. Surgebinding and Shardwielding can return; the magics of ancient days can become ours again. These four people are key.

One of them may redeem us.

And one of them will destroy us

 

I'm wondering if Szeth will end up being the one who may redeem them (the next question here being if them is referring to the Sleepless or Roshar in general). Which makes me wonder even more who the person is who will certainly destroy them. I don't know about Dalinar, but in Kaladin and Shallan's cases, I could definitely see them accidentally ruining the world, if they don't turn against it outright.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[NewbSombrero he/him]

I found my order. I will remember those who have been forgotten, and I will listen to those who have been ignored. So stoked.

[Amanuensis he/him]

Since I don't feel like creating a topic for this, I just wanted to bring something up, since I don't think anyone has mentioned it before.

Insert quote from Edgedancer

Spoiler

"Unfortunately, no," Darkness said. "I once thought as you, but Ishar made the truth clear to me. If the bonds between men and spren are reignited, then men will naturally discover the greater power of the oaths. Without Honor to regulate this, there is a small chance that what comes next will allow the Voidbringers to again make the jump between worlds. That would cause a Desolation... Absolute fidelity to the mission Ishar gave us - the greater law of protecting Roshar - is required."

Emphasis mine.

Considering this is a Herald talking about it, I am now extremely confident that the Voidbringers are just another term for Voidspren, as opposed to the collective name for the things they possess (nature, greatshells, parshendi) which I have seen some people theorize. This heavily implies that the Voidbringers themselves are the self-aware Splinters that inhabit Braize, as mentioned in the Rosharian Essay, here:

Spoiler

Farthest out of the three is Braize, which despite being cold and inhospitable to men is home to an ecosystem of self-aware Splinters (the local parlance would call them spren.) I believe it's possible some of these are actually Cognitive Shadows, but research here is difficult and dangerous, so I will hold back on theorizing for a moment.

I, however, will not hold back on theorizing. You all know those ten symbols that aren't the symbols for the Knights Radiants, which some people have speculated are for their Voidbinding equivalent? I believe those are the symbols for the Unmade, which are Odium's versions of the Heralds (which means there would be 10 total). I also propose that the Unmade are the Cognitive Shadows that Khriss mentions above, and may have at once point served Odium while alive, a bit like how the Forsaken and their relationship to the Dark One in WoT.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Amanuensis

[Argent he/him]

24 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

I believe those are the symbols for the Unmade, which are Odium's versions of the Heralds (which means there would be 10 total)

I had a similar idea a couple of years back, so I checked with Brandon - the number of the Unmade is not ten.

[Zmann966 he/him]

On 11/29/2016 at 2:37 PM, Stark said:

I disagree.  Lawful Evil follows the laws to the letter, if not the spirit, using them to its advantage.  A Lawful Evil entity would not be a target of the Skybreakers, to my mind, as they follow the law.  A cruel military dictator states what is law for those under them to follow.  While Skybreakers seem to dedicate themselves to a personal code of ethics rather than the strict rule of Law in the area they happen to be in, they do not disrespect the Law, and work within its confines to adhere to their Code.

 

Nightblood's rather simplistic Command of "Destroy Evil" is far, far to chaotic for a strict code bound group like the Skybreakers.  There is so much evil in the world that is protected by and uses the laws that would be untouchable by the Skybreakers, unless provided a writ from a King.  And even then, they would need to justify the killing with something more concrete than "He/She was evil!" were they to act.  Nightblood does not have this restriction.  It wants to kill all evil, law abiding or no.

 

To me, not a good Skybreaker mentality, even if it is a mechanical construct that emulates a Spren.  I don't see Szeth sticking with the Skybreakers, even though he excels at adhering to a personal code regardless of the cost to himself, because he knows the risk of following blindly and abdicating responsibility to something greater.  And Nightblood is too chaotic to fit that ideal.

 

I think these two are slotted for something different.  Not sure which order, if any.  Who knows what Nightblood will grant to Szeth if they manage to bond.

Came here to say this, lol. Nightblood does not seem a true Skybreaker-aligned weapon.


To add to it: Keep in mind that Nightblood doesn't know what evil is. It has some concepts of it and thoughts, but simply has a broad spectrum of what is considered "evil" 
Even to the point that simple greed is enough to trigger it's murderous and suicidal effects.

[DSC01 he/him]

@Zmann966 One might argue that Nightblood is very much a Skybreaker-aligned weapon. It does not know what evil is, but it tries very hard to fulfill its directive to destroy it. The Skybreakers--or at least Nalan--don't seem to know what evil is, either. They simply follow the law to the letter and don't consider the spirit of the law at all.

[djammmer]

On 11/27/2016 at 6:31 PM, maxal said:

I doubt one individual could be so equally suitable for two orders,

Why not?  We just call that divergent. 

On 11/27/2016 at 6:31 PM, maxal said:

the very first sprens to bond humans, taken from two different order, since the recreations would choose the same individual. Already, being chosen seems to have an incredible strike of luck, it seems incredibly improbable both Edgedancers and Truthwatchers would have equal interest into one old man from a remote village.

I think the fact Wyndle mentions he was to bond Ym pretty much confirms him as a former proto-Edgedancer. 

I humbly disagree.  Seems all Knights, regardless of order, have similarities... they are all broken.  And also, if some characteristic attracted spren w/ progression... why wouldn't both spren types with progression be attracted by that characteristic?  And Wyndle said they were watching to see if they should bond Ym... but isn't the implication that they decided to bond Lift instead... imply they didn't choose Ym?  I don't think there's a reading that they bound Ym first, and Lift second. Either they decided to bond Lift instead of Ym, or bound Lift and then bound Ym at a later time.  But I think most likely is the bound Lift instead of Ym.

[djammmer]

5 minutes ago, DSC01 said:

@Zmann966 One might argue that Nightblood is very much a Skybreaker-aligned weapon. It does not know what evil is, but it tries very hard to fulfill its directive to destroy it. The Skybreakers--or at least Nalan--don't seem to know what evil is, either. They simply follow the law to the letter and don't consider the spirit of the law at all.

Love this.  Maybe Nightblood himself is a Skybreaker initiate.

[Kanrei]

On 29.11.2016 at 10:08 PM, Amanuensis said:

I am of the opinion that Szeth will become something akin to a Radiant without adhering to any of the 10 Orders. Also, to quote the text from the back cover of WoK...

I'm wondering if Szeth will end up being the one who may redeem them (the next question here being if them is referring to the Sleepless or Roshar in general). Which makes me wonder even more who the person is who will certainly destroy them. I don't know about Dalinar, but in Kaladin and Shallan's cases, I could definitely see them accidentally ruining the world, if they don't turn against it outright.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

As we know that this who wrote it arnt humans, I think that answer for question who is them will be Sleepless.
Especially that there seem to be distinction between Srugebinding magic and magic of ancient times.

 

4 hours ago, djammmer said:

 

I humbly disagree.  Seems all Knights, regardless of order, have similarities... they are all broken.  And also, if some characteristic attracted spren w/ progression... why wouldn't both spren types with progression be attracted by that characteristic?  And Wyndle said they were watching to see if they should bond Ym... but isn't the implication that they decided to bond Lift instead... imply they didn't choose Ym?  I don't think there's a reading that they bound Ym first, and Lift second. Either they decided to bond Lift instead of Ym, or bound Lift and then bound Ym at a later time.  But I think most likely is the bound Lift instead of Ym.

Looks that you are right in your reasoning as Sanderson confirmed that Ym wasnt Edgedancer, so it leaves Truthwatcher only

 

[Titan Arum]

What happened to the Parshmen that Lift sees when she's on the roof of the orphanage? It's clear that they probably started changing forms because their eyes were red. After the storm passes by it seems that there isn't a mention of them again. You'd think that they'd do something or be a part of the aftermath given they're supposedly Voidbringers and the Everstorm (which is rather weak, if you ask me) had just hit. 

[StormingTexan he/him]

I finally got a chance to read Edgedancer. I loved Lift from the interlude so I was pretty sure going in I would love this novel and of course I did. In my head cannon Lift is Wayne's Great, Great, Great Grandmother. I was not however expecting so much new info. Really liked seeing more of a Herald and the Skybreakers. Then there was Szeth and  Nightblood not expecting that cameo but great to see them (although I'd have liked to see a little evil destroyed). Of course now I am chomping at the bit for Oathbringer. 

[maxal she/her]

13 hours ago, Kanrei said:

Looks that you are right in your reasoning as Sanderson confirmed that Ym wasnt Edgedancer, so it leaves Truthwatcher only

Does it really confirms him? Does anyone have second thought on it? I'll admit Stump as Truthwatcher just doesn't sit well with me.... Anyone got better explanations or deep insight?

[thejopen27 he/him]

On 11/23/2016 at 1:55 PM, DSC01 said:

I think Nalan's partial explanation of why he has been hunting down Surgebinders gives us some clues to the circumstances surrounding the Recreance. When Dalinar has visions of the Knights Radiant, it seemed like at least some of them came after the last Desolation, but they were still fighting destructive creatures that we no longer see on Roshar. It seems possible that these beings are Splinters of some variety (no doubt from Braize), who were imitating the example of radiantspren and using some type of bonding to move into the Physical Realm on Roshar. If so, the Recreance was an attempt (apparently successful) at stopping that from happening anymore. Somehow, the Skybreakers' regimented, rule-based approach to bonding their spren does not provide the same opportunity for the evil spren (or whatever they are), so they stuck around and changed their Orders' mission to stopping the Radiants from reappearing, rather than directly protecting the people of Roshar. I suspect that the Recreance was twofold: 1) A large portion--but not all--of the Radiants living at the time broke their Bonds, and 2) The Skybreakers hunted down the remaining Knights who remained faithful (that would be the "great subterfuge").

I think they continued on some kind of war to wipe out the Listeners, but when they won and enslaved them, that caused their oaths to break en masse.

[Shlee]

1 hour ago, maxal said:

Does it really confirms him? Does anyone have second thought on it? I'll admit Stump as Truthwatcher just doesn't sit well with me.... Anyone got better explanations or deep insight?

Well, assuming this is completely verbatim:

Quote

4. Do Ym, Stump belong to Edgedancer? Will we see Stump again in the future?
A. Ym is not an Edgedancer. You will see Stump in the future novels though you may not see Tashikki much again.

My thoughts. A) Ym is dead, so technically, not anything, Edgedancer or otherwise. I'd have felt better if he'd said "was not" an Edgedancer. 

B ) He also didn't confirm or deny that Stump was an Edgedancer, and while I'm as confident as I can be that Ym and Stump had the same kind of spren, it's not impossible that they are from different orders. For what it's worth, she does tell Lift "Not like a vine" which seems to lend itself to her having something other than a cultivationspren.  

C) I guess it depends on how much you believe Brandon likes to troll with things like tenses of words haha. 

[Kanrei]

11 hours ago, maxal said:

Does it really confirms him? Does anyone have second thought on it? I'll admit Stump as Truthwatcher just doesn't sit well with me.... Anyone got better explanations or deep insight?

Well WoB is quite clear. But quote is about Ym. If your gut feeling tell you that Stump isnt Truthwatcher then I doubt anyone can convince you otherwise, and there were already arguments supporting her as Edgedancer so no point in repeating that.

Similarity of sprens between Stump and Ym at last for me indicate that Stump is Truthwatcher. And she was acting more like Ym then like Lift too, Ideal wise.

[Orlion Blight he/him]

Edgedancer was precisely what I was expecting: an appetizer before the Oathbringer main course.

It's too attached to it's franchise to be as good as Emperor's Soul.

Not so deeply attached to the franchise to completely block out non rabid fans. (Say, like Mistborn: Secret History)

There's some new information to ponder, and Lift got a couple out loud laughs out of me (No small feat under normal circumstances).

Overall, a pleasantly enjoyable experience! Though I would not say it justifies the purchasing of the collection purely on its own.

[DSC01 he/him]

@Orlion Determined Hmm... I don't know that I can really disagree with your assessment, and yet I still do, to some degree (but maybe in such a way that we more or less see things the same way but express it differently).

For example, would I say that it's not as good as The Emperor's Soul? Well, kind of. TES is an excellent standalone novella. Which do I, personally, like better? Probably Edgedancer. It is very much a chapter in The Stormlight Archive--an essential one, even--and Stormlight is my favorite Cosmere series. As a Stormlight novella, it is exactly what it should be. If it were more like TES, it wouldn't be as good for what it is, even if it were better as a standalone novella. 

I definitely agree with your observations on the contrast to Secret History. Sure, Edgedancer probably wouldn't be all that satisfying to someone who had not read the rest of Stormlight, but a casual fan of the series would still love it, while someone who had read Mistborn without getting obsessed with the deeper mysteries would read Secret History and be like, "Wut."

Now, here's the sticky point: does Edgedancer justify the purchase of the collection all on its own? It basically did for me, and I had zero buyer's remorse after reading it. If Edgedancer hadn't been in the collection, I may have bought AU eventually, but I sure wouldn't have pre-ordered it. It's nice to have physical copies of stuff I had otherwise only read digitally--which, along with the artwork and bonus material from Khriss, makes the price worth it to me--but that isn't enough of a draw on its own to drop $20. If I had no interest at all in the rest of the material? I guess I can imagine someone who might fit that description (but, surely, they're relatively rare in this fan community), and for them, the price might be a bit steep. I still think most would reluctantly buy it anyway, be a little miffed about having to pay so much, but still end up happy with the story.

[Orlion Blight he/him]

@DSC01 Yes, we are pretty much in agreement, you just filled in some points I neglected to make 

 

[DSC01 he/him]

@Orlion Determined In other words, you ADMIT THAT YOU ARE WRONG!!!, right? I mean, that's what I got from that...  

 

I kid, of course.

[Vissy]

I must say, I'm probably the only one who finds Lift somewhat annoying - though sympathetic all the same. I'm not a fan of obnoxious and stubborn people, though she's a delightfully active main character.

Edgedancer doesn't feel as "great" as the rest of the Stormlight Archives nor Emperor's Soul. There's not the same grandiosity in there, though I could sense glimpses of it as we neared the end of the story, with Darkness' introduction and involvement in the plot. The Immortal people just straightout confused me - the cremling-guys. Why introduce them there, unless he's going to talk about them more in Stormlight 3? So, I feel like that's an author's nudge and a wink to the audience. Expect more of them (though I didn't find them particularly interesting, for some reason).

Now, the novel was a bit slow to start, but things picked up pretty quickly and about midway through reading was a breeze. I don't know what exactly caused the slowness in the first half of the novella, can't quite point a finger at it - maybe I'd have liked to see more Darkness in the very beginning. It would've set the mood of the novella for me, really dug in on the important bits (Darkness' change, the serious bits of Lift's Oaths). I also found the little subplot with the Azirian royals and Lift really touching.

So, I loved the Darkness bits in the novella, and also the bits with Szeth. I wonder what's up with that Stormlight-ey afterimage he leaves. Something to do with Nightblood, perhaps? Since the blade consumes Stormlight actively. Also strange that the blade likes Lift too, I want to hear it from Szeth's point of view.

Also, did I mention that Szeth is a boss? Standing up to motherstormin' Darkness, proving him wrong in the end like that.

[Savanorn he/him]

Wow. I am pretty happy about this. I mean, I don't like Lift, but I can bear with her. 

There was a lot of new info here, I really liked seeing an Aimian. I don't really get how he could have killed two Radiants though.

I called the Skybreaker thing a long time ago, and it only further leads me to believe Helaran was a Radiant. But...yeah. 

It was interesting to discover more about the Heralds and that Ishi is likely a traitor. 

I liked seeing Szeth again too. 

I enjoyed seeing and learning a bit more about the Everstorm as well, but I am a little annoyed that the people conveniently decided to release Parshmen just as a storm that would transform them was coming. I mean, why not just kill them? Failing that, why not chuck them in a bunker?

Overall I was happy about it, and the worldbuilding was tight. 

 

[Vissy]

And as a slight addendum, I liked the very end of the novella except for two things.

1) The Everstorm. I barely even felt its impact. It's supposed to be this horrible new storm and yet I could barely feel a tinge of its presence through the pages.

2) Amian kills two Radiants as easily as that? Nooooooooo