The Art of Game Creation

[Aonar he/him]

1: The hope is that everyone would at least make the attempt at RPing. And there are Neutral, Good and Evil Names, so your just as likely to take out an asset as a liability if you start taking out RPers willy-nilly. Plus, volume and quality are not necessarily indicative of having a Name (although they're obviously going to help a ton). It also has to be the right sort of story. And there are roles that are not Names, so if you start killing RPers off the bat, your liable to get screwed over by Mages and Alchemists, who might decide to RP less to avoid getting targeted. Plus, people with kill roles and people who want Named (and by extension, RPers) dead, are going to be Named, and have to be RPing themselves to use their powers.... making them targets in return. So while this could be a problem, I don't think it will be.

2: This is possibly an issue, and one I'm aware of. However, the only setup that would be truly unbalanced, I believe, would be a heavily Evil-biased village. Which is why I'm debating allowing the Heroes to substitute their quasi-convert action for a group kill as necessary. That might not be enough though, so it's definitely something I plan to think about more.

3: The mechanics don't slot nicely into a Sanderson world. If people are interested enough, it'll get run eventually anyways, and if they're not, then there never was a point in running it.

[Sparkrunner he/him]

Interesting, interesting. Should I write one up for "I Hate Dragons" Short story? It is really short, with not much world-building so I would have to make up a lot, but I think I could do it, something like villagers versus sorcerers, what do you guys think?

[DeTess she/her]

22 hours ago, Straw said:

1. Anyone who RPs a lot will have a massive advantage, possibly causing the best RPers to be killed first, thus creating less quality RP.

( @Aonar Faileas)

LG30 had a system that awarded roles to active players, activity being based on discussion participation and RP (with 1 point being given for each, each cycle). The RP requirement was at least two posts, with 200 words between them. According to my notes from that game, almost all that where active managed to consistently get that RP credit for most of the game.

What I mean to say by this is that if there is an active reward for RP, most people are quite willing to put in the effort for it, even if they normally wouldn't RP as much.

Edit: what did help in that game was that each write-up contained a great prompt for role-play. I suggest taking a look at that game (if you hadn't already) if you plan to run a game with an emphasis on RP.

Edited June 18, 2017 by randuir
small edit for clarity

[BrightnessRadiant she/her]

Soooooo....Ever since I was a kid, I've loved the board game CLUE. (which is also about death and finding murderers...sometimes I worry about me  lol) I had the thought of combining clue and mafia together but, of course, I didn't want to do another game rules set that was non-Sanderson so the L35 Miserables game gave me an idea! 

Presenting, *drum roll for dramatic effect*, The Reckoners based CLUE game! (well I guess it would be the Reckoners based clue/mafia game but that's too long of a title haha) I hope you like it!

Thoughts anyone?? Warning! (contains spoilers for the Reckoners series)

Reckoners CLUE

Spoiler

• Game Mashup: The game of CLUE set in the world of the Reckoners.
• Time: sometime post-Calamity
• Premise: The world is still trying to find it’s way back to civilization, now that Calamity is gone. Some of the Epics are still struggling for power. There are those (Epics and Regular Humans) who want to bring some form of Democracy back to the Fractured States. A group of Epics, and their followers, have risen in opposition to this movement, calling themselves the “Rightful Rulers”.
• Location: A Police Investigation of a murder, at the “Grand Calamity” (a lavish hotel) in Babylon Restored (New York City).
• Game Setting: You are all “guests” that were invited to a dinner party at a swanky hotel, following a political campaign of the soon to be “Governor” of Babylon Restored. While at the dinner party, the would-be-Governor has been found dead in another room. The newly founded, city police have ordered an investigation of the crime. No one is to leave the scene of the crime until proven innocent, or found guilty. The detectives have discovered that the “Rightful Rulers” are behind the murder, and so they are investigating each guest to find any connection to this group. Confined in the same building, the guests are growing tense and suspicious of one another. It’s just a matter of time before they start pointing fingers, and resorting to more drastic actions.

Factions:

Spoiler

1. The Democrats (The Village) You are trying to return Democracy to the Fractured States. (Win condition- Kill or catch(by the “lynch”) all of the “Rightful Rulers”.)

2. The Rightful Rulers (The Eliminators) You believe that the Epics should still be in power. (Win condition- Kill, or outnumber all of the Democrats.)

3. The Mercenary (Neutral) You were hired by the “Rightful Rulers”, to kill the would-be-Governor. You succeeded, but now you’re stuck at the crime scene. (Win condition- Make it to the end of the game without getting “caught”(by the lynch) or killed.)

General Rules:

Spoiler

• This will be a QF with 24 hour cycles.

• It isn’t required, but it would be better “flavor-wise” if you chose a “CLUE” like name for this game. (i.e. Mr. Brown, Baron Buttermilk, Lady Ruby, etc.) Be Creative!

• There will be no PMs, unless you have a mobile (item).

• The Elims will have a private doc in which to communicate.

• The Elims will have one kill per cycle.

• There will be Epic powers and Vanilla Roles.

• There will only be one of each Epic in play.

• The Vanilla Roles will all be given a weapon/item to start the game.

• There will be a standard lynch every cycle.

• A tied lynch will result in a multi-lynch.

• The lynch will be the players voting who will be “interrogated” by the police next.

• If a player is “lynched” they were either proven innocent (villager), or found guilty (elim), and were therefore released from the hotel crime scene. (Either to go free, or sent to prison.)

• Votes must be made in red with retractions in green.

• When you vote, you must state who you think committed the crime, how the victim was killed, and in what room the crime was committed. (i.e. I’m guessing the crime was done by Mr. Brown, with the knife, in the kitchen.)

• When a player dies, the means of death and the room will be noted in the writeup. (Stating the weapon and room are just for the sake of the CLUE style game.)

• The standard elim kill will be revealed as another victim of the “Rightful Rulers”. (But, if an elim kills a player with an item it will not be stated in the writeup that it was them.)

• There will be four “Rooms” in which you can stay at the hotel during the investigation: The Dining Room, The Kitchen, The Living Quarters, and The Entertainment Center.

• The first cycle will start the players randomly in one of these rooms.

• You will receive a list of the other players in the room with you at the beginning of each cycle.

• You may only target the other players (with your items/powers) who are in the same room as you for that cycle. (excluding the “mobile” item, which may be used to talk to any player in any room)

• To change rooms you must send in an order to your GM telling them which room you would like to move to for the next cycle.

• If you do not send in a “room” order, you will be put in a random room for the next cycle.

• You may not be in the same room two cycles in a row. (If the Phaser Epic changes rooms during the cycle, they may not return to the last room they entered for the next cycle. 

• You may still vote on players, and make pms (with a mobile) with other players not in your room.

• You may use each of your items/powers once per cycle.

• You may keep any item until it has been used.

• There is no limit on how many items you can hold, but as soon as one is used you will lose it.

• When an item is used it will be left in the “Room” that you were in last.

• You may not pass an item to another player.

• You do not have to use your items.

• If you decide not to use your item, you may leave it in the room if you wish, while you move on to a new room the next cycle. (You may not want to be caught with a “murder” weapon if scanned.)

• At the beginning of the next cycle, the “dropped” item will be given to a random player entering the room where it was left.

• If a player is “lynched”, any items they were holding will be confiscated by the police. (taken out of the game)

• If a player is murdered, their items will be taken by the killer.

Epic Powers:

Spoiler

1. Phasing- You may move to a different room during the cycle. (you can kinda walk through walls at will.) No one will be told that you have changed rooms. (If someone put in an action against you, it will fail because you aren’t there anymore.) However, if you phase, than you will lose any and all items you are holding.
2. X-Ray Vision- You can see if people are hiding items. (item “scanner”)
3. Mind Control- Control someone’s mind for the “lynch” vote. (move a vote)
4. Steel- You are invulnerable to weapons because you can turn your body to steel. (can only be removed from the game by the “lynch”) (You can’t die. You can only be cleared, or put in prison.)
5. Illusion- Your actions cannot be detected, or you may tell the GM what you wish for a “scanner” to see that cycle. (i.e. This player took no actions, or This player used a mobile, etc.) You must send in an action to your GM pm to use this power, but you don’t have to choose to give specifics. Saying “I’d like to use Illusion this cycle.” is fine. The default message will show that you didn’t take any actions, if someone scans you.
6. Invisibility- you can see what actions a player took (action “scanner”)

Items:

Spoiler

1. Gun- kills one player of your choice
2. Poison- kills one player of your choice.
3. Bomb- kills one player of your choice
4. Knife- kills one player of your choice
5. Mobile- make as many pms as you like for that cycle. (one-on-one pms)
6. Smoke Grenade- Hide yourself from “scanners”
7. Protection Vest- protects you from death/role blocks for that cycle.
8. Taser- role blocker

Order of Events:

Spoiler

1. Phasing, Illusion, and Steel (abilities)

2. Smoke Grenade and Protection Vest (items)

3. Taser (item)

4. Other items and abilities

5. Kills and Lynch

 

Edited June 19, 2017 by BrightnessRadiant

[STINK he/him]

First thing that pops out is that this game looks a bit too complicated for a QF, personally. Items, Roles and Rooms? Would be a good MR  

[BrightnessRadiant she/her]

17 minutes ago, STINK said:

First thing that pops out is that this game looks a bit too complicated for a QF, personally. Items, Roles and Rooms? Would be a good MR  

I thought of that, but wouldn't it be too short because of all of the kill power? Honestly I'd be fine with it as whichever would work best 

Thanks for the advice! 

[STINK he/him]

1 hour ago, BrightnessRadiant said:

I thought of that, but wouldn't it be too short because of all of the kill power?

Personally, the primary factor in determining whether a game should be an LG,MR or QF isn't how fast it will be in the game (eg, 4 cycles rather than 20) but instead how much you expect the average player to keep track of. 

If they can pop in and just keep track of some actions, do some analysis and be done then QF.

If they can pop in, do some actions and analysis while having to keep track of many other abilities or maybe PMing, then MR.

If it's loads, then LG.

'Course, loads can also be an MR, especially when it's something that does have many kills. Better to have the many kills be in an MR where it's not as annoying to be killed as an LG, ya know?

[BrightnessRadiant she/her]

3 hours ago, STINK said:

Personally, the primary factor in determining whether a game should be an LG,MR or QF isn't how fast it will be in the game (eg, 4 cycles rather than 20) but instead how much you expect the average player to keep track of. 

If they can pop in and just keep track of some actions, do some analysis and be done then QF.

If they can pop in, do some actions and analysis while having to keep track of many other abilities or maybe PMing, then MR.

If it's loads, then LG.

'Course, loads can also be an MR, especially when it's something that does have many kills. Better to have the many kills be in an MR where it's not as annoying to be killed as an LG, ya know?

Ah I see, that makes sense 

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

I approve of drawing on the clue murder mystery feel.

As for QF versus MR... Honestly it could depend on how common those killing items are. What is the chances that a player will gain such an item in a given cycle?

Off the top of my head, looking at this game it seems to me like it's on the level of an MR. It certainly has enough complexity to be an MR.

But take my opinion with a grain of salt cause I'm still in line to run my first games.

[Elenion he/him]

I too think it would be best as an MR, because of the room mechanic. A player would have to keep track of who was in what room when.

[BrightnessRadiant she/her]

@Drake Marshall @Elenion

Thanks ya'll! I appreciate all the feed back! 

I was actually unsure of whether to make it a QF or MR or not...I guess I've got my answer lol

As far as the killing items there would probably be about 1 of each and if there are 4 rooms and about 20-25 players? But minus the 6 Epics, that would make the chances be about 1 in 5 to start the game, i think lol...as I've said before...don't trust my math haha (i'm honestly unsure whether that explanation made sense haha)

 

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

4 extra kills in the game then, since there are 4 killing items

That won't speed the game up any more than a vigilante role would I imagine

I've even seen a number of LGs with vig roles, although those games tend to be ones with lots of protection powers (for example the kingkiller game)

 

Also, @Aonar Faileas personally I like the notion of rewarding people for being active and RPing. In my opinion this feature is one of the most fun parts of Aman's games. The only thing to maybe watch out for is roles that are obviously of a certain alignment, but then, the same can be said for any game.

I for one am not familiar with the universe you've set the game in but it looks like it could be neat.

 

Speaking of non-cosmere settings, I am told that there's never been a game on these forums set in Camorr. Just wanted to put the idea out there 

[Elenion he/him]

I like to determine game length by looking at the number of potential kills per round. Assuming all players in the game decide to go berserk with the kill items, you could have up to 6 kills per round: the lynch, the elim kill, and 4 vigilante kills. Assuming 24 starting players, that would end the game in 4 rounds, which is a very short. More likely I'd plan for 3 or 4 kills per round: the lynch, the elim kill, and one or two vigilante kills. Using the previous estimate of 24 players, that creates a game with 6 to 8 rounds. This means that, assuming the vigilante weapons are used by conscientious villagers, the game shouldn't be incredibly short if all 4 weapons are in play. @BrightnessRadiant

[BrightnessRadiant she/her]

@Drake Marshall @Elenion

Yeah, less kill power makes sense (even if it's not as fun hahaha) I'll go back through my rules and try to balance it better! Thanks for the suggestions!

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

To clarify... Are those kill items reusable, or 1-shot?

[BrightnessRadiant she/her]

1 hour ago, Drake Marshall said:

To clarify... Are those kill items reusable, or 1-shot?

Reusable 

Although I doubt a bomb would be reusable 

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

Runs off to go patent the reusable bomb as an invention.

 

But more seriously... 1 elim kill, 1 lynch, and 4 item kills every cycle totals up to a possible 6 kills every cycle. The items don't all start in-game, which should slow things down somewhat, but towards the end of the game there could be a very large death count.

In light of the fact that the killing items can be reused, I think I agree with your decision to make it a QF, anyway.

[Elenion he/him]

I think that it's still a little complex to be a QF, what with rooms, items, PMs, and all. There's also the problem of inactivity: very few players are going to use their only shot with the kill item on an inactive.

[BrightnessRadiant she/her]

@Drake Marshall

Okay I'm sorry, let me clarify cuz I wasn't clear about the weapons....all of the items(including the weapons) WILL begin in play at the start of the game, but they will be distributed evenly between the four rooms. So it will be about a 1 in 5 chance that any given vanilla player will start with them. That's what I was trying to say, but was super confusing lol.

I agree with @Elenion though, that I included too much kill power, so I think I'll either remove two of the weapons, or simply make the bomb and the poison limited to "one time use" items, before they're removed from the game.

That way there would be 2 weapons floating around throughout the game (until they were caught with someone who was lynched and taken out of play) and 2 others that could only be used once. How does that sound? I could even make the gun have a certain use limit considering that the bullets would run out at some point lol.

Edited June 21, 2017 by BrightnessRadiant

[Elenion he/him]

Some of what will happen cannot be predicted; we don't know if a given weapon will end up in the hands of pacifistic villagers, aggressive villagers, or even with the elims. I think 2 repeatable kills and 2 one-time kills sounds good for a game designed to be kill-heavy, and after the game is over the GM usually looks back over the game and remarks on what tweaks they would make if they were to run the game again.

[BrightnessRadiant she/her]

1 hour ago, Elenion said:

Some of what will happen cannot be predicted; we don't know if a given weapon will end up in the hands of pacifistic villagers, aggressive villagers, or even with the elims. I think 2 repeatable kills and 2 one-time kills sounds good for a game designed to be kill-heavy, and after the game is over the GM usually looks back over the game and remarks on what tweaks they would make if they were to run the game again.

Yeah I kinda designed it to be a multi-murder mystery lol 

Hmmm predicted tweaks from my future self: "I should've given every player a murder weapon!" *maniacal laughter 

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

39 minutes ago, BrightnessRadiant said:

Yeah I kinda designed it to be a multi-murder mystery lol 

Hmmm predicted tweaks from my future self: "I should've given every player a murder weapon!" *maniacal laughter 

I'm toying with the idea of a game setup that would probably give... Probably about half of the players killing powers.

The bloodshed would hopefully still be drawn out though because of an abundance of protection powers and also certain drawbacks to using the kills. But still.

[BrightnessRadiant she/her]

11 minutes ago, Drake Marshall said:

I'm toying with the idea of a game setup that would probably give... Probably about half of the players killing powers.

The bloodshed would hopefully still be drawn out though because of an abundance of protection powers and also certain drawbacks to using the kills. But still.

Ooooooooooooo  sounds intriguing

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

It would be a reckoners game. Over half of the players would be epics of some kind. The only 100% reliable way to kill someone with the status of a high epic would be to learn their weakness.

[BrightnessRadiant she/her]

@Drake Marshall

ok that's it.....signing up rn  hehe

Sounds cool! I thought about adding something like that in my game, but then I realized that I didn't need to if I just made them be lower epics so I settled for that instead. Yours sounds like a lot of fun though! Superpowers are always a draw for me.  

Edited June 21, 2017 by BrightnessRadiant