|TJ| he/him Posted June 28, 2020 Posted June 28, 2020 (edited) So, cancel Soothed votes. PMs are off. Change the elims wincon. Atium mechanics is a bit clunky. Thugs are fine. Have a Cett Mistborn without Atium, Duralumin, or both (I won't tell which though, since a Seeker could eliminate Cett Mistborn if they find someone burning 2 metals). 1 hour ago, Straw said: I'd also suggest making the Terrisman a neutral role instead of confirmed village, since there isn't really much of a mechanical reason for it to be village only. Yeah, that was only for canon reasons, keeping Sazed and Tindwyl in mind. I'll make it a normal role. Perfect, thanks! Edit: Added in Gneorndin Cett as the Cett Mistborn in the original post. Edited June 28, 2020 by TJ Shade
Ashbringer he/him Posted June 29, 2020 Posted June 29, 2020 Okay, I have an idea for Honorblades to at least prevent the Elims from killing the Dustbringer (Honorblade Bearer) and stealing the blade undetected. A Bearer can chose a player to Will their blade to in case of a lynch. If that Bearer is lynched, the blade goes to the Willed individual [either “their Blade was Willed to (Player)!” or “their Blade was Willed to someone!”]. If there was no Will, or the Will was made invalid (perhaps the Stone Shaman, or just having a dead recipient), then the Blade would go to someone else [either the Stone Shaman or a random player]. If a Bearer is killed, the killer can then claim the Blade the next day turn. Claiming is a choice: take the blade, or let it “return to the Shin High Council” and go to a random other player. The Stone Shaman then gets a message at the end of each day turn of who has Honorblades, and how many, but not what kind. So an Elim who earned an Honorblade from a kill could either keep the blade and fall under suspicion by the Shaman, or let it go to a random individual who may take that suspicion. I’m also wondering if the Stone Shaman should have any further abilities besides the ownership report and stealing a Blade at night. I’m thinking maybe recover unWilled/unClaimed blades instead of having them go to a random individual, but with the caveat that the Shaman can’t use the Blade’s powers at all, just hold and shuttle them for the Village.
|TJ| he/him Posted June 30, 2020 Posted June 30, 2020 Got some (more) questions: Should I include malatium only for Vin? It would be once per game and it would give out the entire history of actions of the target. Too OP? Mechanics for Atium + Duralumin? Avoid all attacks on you for the cycle? Seems OP on top of the Thug ability. Would give them 2 lives. Just disable it? Mechanics for Thug + Duralumin? Retaliatory kill along with protection? 2 lives for the cycle?
Straw he/him Posted June 30, 2020 Posted June 30, 2020 9 minutes ago, TJ Shade said: Got some (more) questions: Should I include malatium only for Vin? It would be once per game and it would give out the entire history of actions of the target. Too OP? Mechanics for Atium + Duralumin? Avoid all attacks on you for the cycle? Seems OP on top of the Thug ability. Would give them 2 lives. Just disable it? Mechanics for Thug + Duralumin? Retaliatory kill along with protection? 2 lives for the cycle? I don't see why you'd include Malatium. It just seems like unnecessary complexity. Vin seems strong enough already. Aren't you not able to use Atium and Duralumin at the same time? I had assumed that a Mistborn had two action slots (one for the basic eight, and one for Atium/Duralumin). So wait, how exactly are you making Pewter work? Do you have to burn it to get the extra life, or is it a passive? If it's the first, just make it so your extra Pewter life isn't used up if you're attacked once that cycle.
|TJ| he/him Posted June 30, 2020 Posted June 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, Straw said: I don't see why you'd include Malatium. It just seems like unnecessary complexity. Vin seems strong enough already. Yeah, I figured. I don't know why I feel compelled to make everything related to the books xD 4 minutes ago, Straw said: Aren't you not able to use Atium and Duralumin at the same time? I had assumed that a Mistborn had two action slots (one for the basic eight, and one for Atium/Duralumin). I had initially thought of it that way because I forgot about atium + duralumin xD Now I'm not sure if I should allow it or not. It feels too big a thing to say "you can't do that". I'm actually leaning towards not allowing it because I cannot think of an effect that wouldn't be OP. 9 minutes ago, Straw said: So wait, how exactly are you making Pewter work? Do you have to burn it to get the extra life, or is it a passive? If it's the first, just make it so your extra Pewter life isn't used up if you're attacked once that cycle. I had always intended Thugs to be passive. That way, Mistborn would not die too early.
Straw he/him Posted June 30, 2020 Posted June 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, TJ Shade said: I had initially thought of it that way because I forgot about atium + duralumin xD Now I'm not sure if I should allow it or not. It feels too big a thing to say "you can't do that". I'm actually leaning towards not allowing it because I cannot think of an effect that wouldn't be OP. I had always intended Thugs to be passive. That way, Mistborn would not die too early. It just seems simplest to not allow it. So, if it's passive, you can't burn it, right? So why would someone be able to have Pewter and Duralumin?
|TJ| he/him Posted June 30, 2020 Posted June 30, 2020 Just now, Straw said: So, if it's passive, you can't burn it, right? So why would someone be able to have Pewter and Duralumin? Huh, I always imagined the Thug ability as instinctively (and automatically) burning pewter when attacked.
Straw he/him Posted June 30, 2020 Posted June 30, 2020 1 hour ago, TJ Shade said: Huh, I always imagined the Thug ability as instinctively (and automatically) burning pewter when attacked. I mean, that makes sense with the books, but I'm not sure why you'd mechanically have Pewter and Duralumin with how you have things set up ATM, unless you basically want to give Duralumin an extra effect.
|TJ| he/him Posted June 30, 2020 Posted June 30, 2020 Well yes, I kinda wanted to have all the basic 8 boosted by duralumin. Wouldn't be fair when the player asks to boost pewter with duralumin, and for me to reject it with no good reason. So, I was planning for Pewter to have a retaliatory kill for a cycle if it gets boosted by duralumin.
Ashbringer he/him Posted June 30, 2020 Posted June 30, 2020 You could also do immune to all kills for a turn, so that they can’t get double-hit in one turn (although I don’t know if that’s actually a risk here), or let duralumin-Pewter give a second extra life, for that turn or permanently at the expense of the duralumin.
|TJ| he/him Posted June 30, 2020 Posted June 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, Ashbringer said: You could also do immune to all kills for a turn, so that they can’t get double-hit in one turn (although I don’t know if that’s actually a risk here), or let duralumin-Pewter give a second extra life, for that turn or permanently at the expense of the duralumin. Yup, that's what I was asking. Whether a retaliatory kill would be better, or a double extra life for the cycle. I wouldn't give double extra life permanently for the rest of the game though.
18th Shard he/him Posted July 3, 2020 Posted July 3, 2020 (edited) I don't think I would currently be able to GM a game, but that didn't stop me and a couple of friends who are also Sanderson fans from working on one. Feedback and thoughts would be appreciated; maybe in the future this game would be run. Overview This game, tentatively titled Collision of Metals, would run as a Long Game, with a total of 31 players. A cycle, as used later in this game description, refers to both a day and night. Each one of these (day or night) is referred to as a period. Periods would each last 24 hours. This game is set in Era 2 Scadrial in a town on the outskirts of Northern Scadrian influence. Alignments Spoiler There are 5 factions within the game: the Set, Basin citizens, the Koloss, the Rogue Kandra, and the Southern Scadrian. the Set: There are 5 members of the Set in the game. Together, they have a group doc, as well as having a nightly kill as a group. This kill must be designated to be performed by one member of the Set each night. Win condition: Be the last remaining faction. Koloss: The game begins with at most one koloss. Each koloss has 2 lives and is part of the koloss group doc. At the beginning of the game, the "death counter" is set at 1. With each death that occurs in game, the counter increases. Once the counter reaches 4, a member of the koloss may perform a night conversion on another player. This conversion turns that person into a koloss, removing all metalborn abilities in the process. If the koloss attempt to convert a Kandra, Southern Scadrian, Worldhopper, or Dark Alley member, conversion fails. If the koloss convert a member of the Set, the Set member becomes a part of both factions, and may win with either of them. Win condition: Be the last remaining faction. Rogue Kandra: There is at most one kandra in the game. The kandra is immune to night kills and conversion. Win conditions: Be the last remaining faction OR be alive with only one other, non-citizen faction. (That is, if there are only Set or Koloss faction members alive as well as the Kandra, those factions lose and the Kandra wins). Southern Scadrian: There is at most one Southern Scadrian. Upon the Southern Scadrian's death, an ettmetal bomb will go off, killing everyone who performed an action on the Southern Scadrian that period (including votes). Win condition: Survive. The Southern Scadrian is a neutral player and does not have to be killed for any faction to win. Basin citizens: The normal village. Consists of all persons not a part of the above factions. Win condition: Kill all members of the Set, Koloss, and Kandra factions. Metalborn Abilities All metalborn abilities may be combined with either Basin or Set alignments. See below for potential twinborn. Special Roles Spoiler Mistborn - The Mistborn is a jack of all trades in Allomancy, having a single use of every one of the base 16 Allomantic abilities, as well as one use of Atium. The Mistborn may use one Allomantic ability each period. There will be at most one Mistborn. The Mistborn can not have any other abilities (though he/she may be aligned with the Set). Keeper - The Keeper is a jack of all trades in Feruchemy, having a single use of every one of the base 16 Feruchemical abilities, as well as one use of Atium. The Keeper may store any Feruchemical attributes each cycle, gaining one charge in that metal. On a later cycle, the Keeper may tap one attribute each period. The Keeper may only tap each metal once.There will be at most one Keeper. The Keeper can not have any other abilities (though he/she may be aligned with the Set). Inquisitor - The Inquisitor is a jack of all trades in Hemalurgy, having a single use of every one of the base 16 Allomantic abilities, as well as one use of Atium. The Inquisitor may use the ability of each of his spikes only once. Spikes stealing allomantic or feruchemical abilities will be determined by RNG at the beginning of the game. There will be at most one Inquisitor. The Inquisitor can not have any other abilities (though he/she may be aligned with the Set). Mistings - Mistings can burn their metal once a cycle. Mistings may also be Ferrings or Spiked, and may be Set aligned. There will be 6 mistings in the game. Spoiler Metal abilities: Tin: Can observe who performs actions on a target individual (including themselves). Does not see what action was performed, only which person performed an action. Limit one actor reveal per cycle. If more than one person targets the Tineye's target, one will be randomly selected to be revealed. Day or Night period. Pewter: +1 Life. The life lasts for the period in which the Thug burns pewter. When an attack that would normally have killed the Thug hits, the Thug runs out of Pewter and in future cycles cannot burn Pewter. (I.e. Only one bonus life can be gained.) Day or Night Period Iron: Can protect one person (including him-/herself) from one attack. Night period only. Steel: Can kill one person. Night period only. Copper: Day period - may protect one other person from vote manipulation OR Night period - may protect one other person from having their alignment/role revealed. When copper is burned, it automatically applies these effects to the Smoker. Bronze: Can identify the role and faction of one person. Night period only. Zinc: Can change one person's vote at the negation of their own. Day period only. Brass: Can negate one person's vote. Day period only. Gold: Can observe all actions performed on him-/herself. Does not reveal who performed those actions. Day or Night period. Electrum: Can observe all actions performed on another. Does not reveal who performed those actions. While electrum is burned, the Oracle cannot be killed by any Atium user. Day or Night period. Cadmium: Can skip through one period, remaining unaffected by all actions performed on them during that period. If lynched, they will be killed during the next period. Day or Night period. Bendalloy: Can double the duration of one period on a person, roleblocking them for the subsequent period. Day or Night period. Aluminum: If the Aluminum Gnat is Set-aligned, may burn aluminum to become Basin aligned. If this occurs, the Gnat may not reveal the other members of the Set. While burning aluminum, conversion by a koloss and vote manipulation fails. Day or Night period. ***Special Rule for Mistborn: If used by a Mistborn, the Mistborn loses all remaining metals. Duralumin: While burning duralumin, cannot be converted by koloss. If conversion is attempted, the Gnat is alerted that someone attempted to convert him or her. Night period only. ***Special Rule for Mistborn: Doubles strength of next metal burned (see Nicrosil). Chromium: Negates allomantic abilities for one cycle. Day or Night period. Nicrosil: Doubles the strength of the person's next Allomantic burn. This results in the Allomantic action occurring twice on the target. Day or Night period. Atium: There are no atium mistings. ***Special Rule for Mistborn: May either kill one person OR protect one person OR have one additional life for the duration of the cycle. Day or Night period. Ferrings - Ferrings may store their attribute once each cycle. This storing lasts for a period. At a later time, the Ferring may tap as many charges of that attribute as they have stored for one period. Ferrings may also be Mistings or Spiked, and may be Set aligned. There will be 6 Ferrings in the game. Spoiler Effects of Storing: If not otherwise noted, all attributes may be stored during either period. Tin: The names of persons who voted on the Windwhisperer are not revealed in the writeup. Day only. Pewter: Cannot perform an action during this period. Iron: Cannot be protected from an attack, vote manipulation, or seeking. Steel: Cannot perform an action during this period. Copper: All actions performed by the Archivist will have their target randomized. Bronze: All actions performed by the Archivist will have their target randomized. Zinc: Vote randomized. Day only. Brass: 10% chance of being roleblocked for a cycle due to hypothermia. Gold: 1/16 chance of being killed if any action is performed on the Bloodmaker. Electrum: Vote will be negated. Day only. Cadmium: Cannot place a vote. Day only. Bendalloy: Loses night action on next cycle. Aluminum: Vote becomes unidentified (will be counted as if anonymous). Day only. Duralumin: Cannot be protected from an attack, vote manipulation, or seeking. Chromium: Another player will be randomly selected. If that player dies, the Spinner will also be killed. Nicrosil: Cannot use any other abilities except vote and storing during next cycle. Atium: There are no Atium Ferrings. ***Special Note for Keeper: Cannot perform an action during cycle. Effects of Tapping: Unless otherwise noted, all attributes may be tapped during either period. Tin: Can observe which persons performed actions on the Windwhisperer (though not what actions were performed). Pewter: +1 Life per charge for duration of period. Iron: Can protect one person. Additional charges stack protection. Night only. Steel: Can kill one person. Additional charges stack attack on person. Night only. Copper: Can remember every action performed on the Archivist during the period (though not who performed them). Bronze: Awake to see every action performed on the another during the period (though not who performed them). Zinc: Influence one person to change their vote to match the Sparker's vote. Day only. Brass: Attackers have a 25% chance of being revealed, and a 10% chance of being killed instead of the Firesoul. Chances increase by 5% for each charge. Night only. Gold: +1 Life per charge for duration of period. Electrum: Can negate another's vote. Day only. Cadmium: Can skip through a night period, remaining unaffected by action performed then. Night only. Bendalloy: Can perform an action once a period for the next cycle instead of once a period. Aluminum: Can cast a vote as another player. This player would then have two votes under his/her name if they vote, one his/her vote, the other the Trueself's. Day only. Duralumin: One additional vote per charge. Day only. Chromium: Attacks on Spinner will fail, targeting another random player. Night only. Nicrosil: Can double the strength of another person's ability, including Set night kill. Atium: No Atium ferrings. ***Special Rule for Keepers: May either kill one person OR protect one person OR have one additional life for the duration of the cycle. Day or Night period. Spiked - Spiked have an ability which can be used once a cycle. Some spikes steal Allomantic or Feruchemical abilities. The ability is determined randomly at the start of the game. Feruchemical abilities have the additional constraint that they can only be tapped one charge at a time. Spoiler Abilities: Unless otherwise noted, may be use during either period. Tin: Can observe who performs actions on an individual (including themselves). Does not reveal actions performed. Pewter: One random feruchemical physical ability. Iron: May kill one person. Night only. Steel: One random allomantic physical ability. Copper: Can observe all actions (not actors) performed on oneself. Bronze: One random allomantic mental ability. Zinc: Vote cannot be manipulated. Day only. Brass: One random feuchemical mental ability. Gold: One random feruchmical temporal ability. Electrum: One random allomantic enhancement ability. Cadmium: One random allomantic temporal ability. Bendalloy: One random feruchemical spiritual ability. Aluminum: One use. Remove another person's abilities. Does not remove Set night kill or Koloss conversion ability. If used on Kandra, Southern Scadrian, or Worldhopper, fails, and aluminum spike is given one more use. Duralumin: Can change one person's vote at negation of one's own. Day only. Chromium: Can swap the actions performed on oneself for those performed on another. Night only. Nicrosil: One use only. Can recover one metalborn ability from a person on the cycle they die. If used on Mistborn, Keeper, or Inquisitor, may only steal one single-use ability. Atium: No atium spiked. ***Special Rule for Inquisitor: One time use: May kill one person OR protect one person OR have one more life for the duration of the period. Special Rules for Compounders: Compounding is enabled if a person is assigned the same metal in multiple systems. Compounding for Misting/Ferrings: May exchange one use of an Allomantic ability to double the charges tapped during that cycle. Compounding for Mistings/Spiked: May double Allomantic strength (see Nicrosil) at cost of one use of Hemalurgic ability. Compounding for Ferrings/Spiked: May perform Hemalurgic ability twice in a cycle, at cost of all stored charges in that metal. If a person has the same metal in all three abilities, they may only compound in one way per cycle. Cosmetic Roles: Worldhopper: Returns random false positive on any seeking. Basin aligned. Dark Alley Baker: Can give out a cookie to a target player. Basin aligned. Alternate win condition: Give a cookie to all surviving persons by the end of the game. Role Assignment: Roles will be assigned as follows: All players will be assigned a number, 1-31. By RNG, Koloss, Kandra, Southern Scadrian, Mistborn, Keeper, and Inquisitor are randomly assigned to a different number 1-36. If assigned to 32-36, these roles are not in the game. By RNG, Set faction is assigned to 5 different numbers 1-31. If assigned to a slot filled by another faction, assignment is re-rolled. By RNG, 6 Mistings are assigned to numbers 1-31, with all special roles and non-Set factions filtered out. Metals are then randomly assigned without duplicates. By RNG, 6 Ferrings are assigned to numbers 1-31, with all special roles and non-Set factions filtered out. Mistings are given one-half chance of being selected as a ferring. Metals are then randomly assigned without duplicates. By RNG, 6 Spikes are assigned to numbers 1-31, with all special roles and non-Set factions filtered out. Mistings and Ferrings are given one-half chance of being selected as a spiked, while players who are both misting and ferring are given a one-fourth chance. Metals are then randomly assigned without duplicates. Worldhopper and Dark Alley Baker are randomly assigned between all players without any other role or alignment. Summary of Role Spread based on 31 trials: Average Number of Special Roles in play: 5.17 Average Number of Alignments: 4 Average Vanilla Percentage: 22.37% Average Twinborn Percentage: 8.29% Average Additional Abilities of Set members: 0.83 ea Average Compounders Percentage: 0.21% Average Tripleborn (one ability in each system): 0.31% Edited July 3, 2020 by 18th Shard 4
Straw he/him Posted July 3, 2020 Posted July 3, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, 18th Shard said: This game, tentatively titled Collision of Metals, would run as a Long Game, with a total of 31 players. A cycle, as used later in this game description, refers to both a day and night. Each one of these (day or night) is referred to as a period. Periods would each last 24 hours. This game is set in Era 2 Scadrial in a town on the outskirts of Northern Scadrian influence. Balancing around having 31 players isn't ideal, since most LGs trend a bit lower than that. Why do 24/24 cycles for a LG instead of the standard 48/24? 10 hours ago, 18th Shard said: There are 5 factions within the game: the Set, Basin citizens, the Koloss, the Rogue Kandra, and the Southern Scadrian. the Set: There are 5 members of the Set in the game. Together, they have a group doc, as well as having a nightly kill as a group. This kill must be designated to be performed by one member of the Set each night. Win condition: Be the last remaining faction. Koloss: The game begins with at most one koloss. Each koloss has 2 lives and is part of the koloss group doc. At the beginning of the game, the "death counter" is set at 1. With each death that occurs in game, the counter increases. Once the counter reaches 4, a member of the koloss may perform a night conversion on another player. This conversion turns that person into a koloss, removing all metalborn abilities in the process. If the koloss attempt to convert a Kandra, Southern Scadrian, Worldhopper, or Dark Alley member, conversion fails. If the koloss convert a member of the Set, the Set member becomes a part of both factions, and may win with either of them. Win condition: Be the last remaining faction. Rogue Kandra: There is at most one kandra in the game. The kandra is immune to night kills and conversion. Win conditions: Be the last remaining faction OR be alive with only one other, non-citizen faction. (That is, if there are only Set or Koloss faction members alive as well as the Kandra, those factions lose and the Kandra wins). Southern Scadrian: There is at most one Southern Scadrian. Upon the Southern Scadrian's death, an ettmetal bomb will go off, killing everyone who performed an action on the Southern Scadrian that period (including votes). Win condition: Survive. The Southern Scadrian is a neutral player and does not have to be killed for any faction to win. Basin citizens: The normal village. Consists of all persons not a part of the above factions. Win condition: Kill all members of the Set, Koloss, and Kandra factions. Locking in the members of the Set restricts your balancing options quite a bit, so I wouldn't recommend doing that. Since seven or eight elims would be the normal balanced number for a 31 player game, you'd have to give them a lot of strong roles. Just to clarify, can the Koloss convert multiple times? If not, I'd recommend scrapping the death counter. I assume if the conversion fails, they get to try again for free? I think that the Kandra and Dark Alley member should both be convertible, and I don't see much reason why they shouldn't be convertible. I'm not sure how I feel about them being able to convert Set members, since that'd end with the Set member selling out one of the two factions, which isn't very fun. I really don't see much reason for the Southern Scadrian faction/role to exist, other than as a game mechanic. They want to survive, but they don't really have any mechanics to help them survive, other than the threat of blowing people up. That would be a pretty good threat, but every elim will just claim it as well if they're getting lynched, so I don't think it's terribly useful. I'd recommend giving them some kind of ability that helps them while they're alive, or at least give them an extra life. 10 hours ago, 18th Shard said: Mistborn - The Mistborn is a jack of all trades in Allomancy, having a single use of every one of the base 16 Allomantic abilities, as well as one use of Atium. The Mistborn may use one Allomantic ability each period. There will be at most one Mistborn. The Mistborn can not have any other abilities (though he/she may be aligned with the Set). Keeper - The Keeper is a jack of all trades in Feruchemy, having a single use of every one of the base 16 Feruchemical abilities, as well as one use of Atium. The Keeper may store any Feruchemical attributes each cycle, gaining one charge in that metal. On a later cycle, the Keeper may tap one attribute each period. The Keeper may only tap each metal once.There will be at most one Keeper. The Keeper can not have any other abilities (though he/she may be aligned with the Set). Inquisitor - The Inquisitor is a jack of all trades in Hemalurgy, having a single use of every one of the base 16 Allomantic abilities, as well as one use of Atium. The Inquisitor may use the ability of each of his spikes only once. Spikes stealing allomantic or feruchemical abilities will be determined by RNG at the beginning of the game. There will be at most one Inquisitor. The Inquisitor can not have any other abilities (though he/she may be aligned with the Set). So, I'm a bit confused about the Inquisitor. You say that they're a jack of all trades in Hemalurgy, but then say that they just have one use of each Allomantic ability, but like the Mistborn. Did you mean to say that they have one use of each Spike? 10 hours ago, 18th Shard said: [Allomancy stuff] All of these seem fine, other than Aluminum, which is pretty problematic. I'd really strongly recommend removing their ability to switch factions, since that's not going to end well. Iron should maybe be given a limit. Not being able to protect yourself or not being able to protect the same person twice in a row 10 hours ago, 18th Shard said: [Feruchemy stuff] Why does Bronze storing affect the Archivist? That doesn't make sense. Aluminum tapping seems weird? It doesn't really do much, since you can just go back and figure out what the real vote count was. 10 hours ago, 18th Shard said: Cosmetic Roles: Worldhopper: Returns random false positive on any seeking. Basin aligned. Dark Alley Baker: Can give out a cookie to a target player. Basin aligned. Alternate win condition: Give a cookie to all surviving persons by the end of the game. Cosmetic roles is a term usually used to refer to roles that people can choose for RP, not for actual roles. For the Worldhopper, what do you mean by "false positive"? Do you mean that it returns random results? EDIT: Forgot to comment on role assignment. 10 hours ago, 18th Shard said: Role Assignment: Roles will be assigned as follows: All players will be assigned a number, 1-31. By RNG, Koloss, Kandra, Southern Scadrian, Mistborn, Keeper, and Inquisitor are randomly assigned to a different number 1-36. If assigned to 32-36, these roles are not in the game. By RNG, Set faction is assigned to 5 different numbers 1-31. If assigned to a slot filled by another faction, assignment is re-rolled. By RNG, 6 Mistings are assigned to numbers 1-31, with all special roles and non-Set factions filtered out. Metals are then randomly assigned without duplicates. By RNG, 6 Ferrings are assigned to numbers 1-31, with all special roles and non-Set factions filtered out. Mistings are given one-half chance of being selected as a ferring. Metals are then randomly assigned without duplicates. By RNG, 6 Spikes are assigned to numbers 1-31, with all special roles and non-Set factions filtered out. Mistings and Ferrings are given one-half chance of being selected as a spiked, while players who are both misting and ferring are given a one-fourth chance. Metals are then randomly assigned without duplicates. Worldhopper and Dark Alley Baker are randomly assigned between all players without any other role or alignment. What do you gain from assigning roles like this? Balance would vary massively, since one faction (out of Basin and Set) could get all the roles and dominate the game. Why not attempt to make it balanced instead of doing it randomly? Edited July 3, 2020 by Straw
18th Shard he/him Posted July 3, 2020 Posted July 3, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Straw said: Balancing around having 31 players isn't ideal, since most LGs trend a bit lower than that. Why do 24/24 cycles for a LG instead of the standard 48/24? Locking in the members of the Set restricts your balancing options quite a bit, so I wouldn't recommend doing that. Since seven or eight elims would be the normal balanced number for a 31 player game, you'd have to give them a lot of strong roles. Just to clarify, can the Koloss convert multiple times? If not, I'd recommend scrapping the death counter. I assume if the conversion fails, they get to try again for free? I think that the Kandra and Dark Alley member should both be convertible, and I don't see much reason why they shouldn't be convertible. I'm not sure how I feel about them being able to convert Set members, since that'd end with the Set member selling out one of the two factions, which isn't very fun. I really don't see much reason for the Southern Scadrian faction/role to exist, other than as a game mechanic. They want to survive, but they don't really have any mechanics to help them survive, other than the threat of blowing people up. That would be a pretty good threat, but every elim will just claim it as well if they're getting lynched, so I don't think it's terribly useful. I'd recommend giving them some kind of ability that helps them while they're alive, or at least give them an extra life. So, I'm a bit confused about the Inquisitor. You say that they're a jack of all trades in Hemalurgy, but then say that they just have one use of each Allomantic ability, but like the Mistborn. Did you mean to say that they have one use of each Spike? All of these seem fine, other than Aluminum, which is pretty problematic. I'd really strongly recommend removing their ability to switch factions, since that's not going to end well. Iron should maybe be given a limit. Not being able to protect yourself or not being able to protect the same person twice in a row Why does Bronze storing affect the Archivist? That doesn't make sense. Aluminum tapping seems weird? It doesn't really do much, since you can just go back and figure out what the real vote count was. Cosmetic roles is a term usually used to refer to roles that people can choose for RP, not for actual roles. For the Worldhopper, what do you mean by "false positive"? Do you mean that it returns random results? EDIT: Forgot to comment on role assignment. What do you gain from assigning roles like this? Balance would vary massively, since one faction (out of Basin and Set) could get all the roles and dominate the game. Why not attempt to make it balanced instead of doing it randomly? Having the 24/24 cycles is partially to help balance the large number of players. There are that many players simply to help balance between the Set and Koloss factions. I'd read somewhere (I can't find it now) where they said a balanced number of Eliminators was the square root of the number of players, rounded down. I could definitely increase the number of Set. You said 7 or 8 would be around where you think it would be balanced? I wanted there to be balance between the Set and the koloss, with the Set having an advantage at the beginning, and the koloss an advantage late-game. Koloss get one convert for every four deaths, although they do have to use that conversion before they can use another (i.e. once 3 people have died they may convert once, but if they don't convert before 7 have died, then they lose that opportunity and still only have one convert). Yes, if it fails, they get to try again. I could definitely make Set immune to being converted, and Dark Alley able to be converted. The point of the Kandra, SoScad, and Worldhopper all being immune is that the koloss would know that their target was one of those roles, but are unsure whether they should try to kill them (Kandra) or avoid killing them (SoScad), with the Worldhopper being a false positive. Again, the SoScad, who no one wants to kill, is meant to be a counter to the Kandra, who everyone wants to kill. I agree that another ability in life would be helpful - any ideas? That is indeed meant to be Spikes, that's a typo. Will remove the alignment change on Aluminum. Iron not protecting self would be a good balance. That should be Sentry, that is an artifact of a copy and paste that didn't get changed. Aluminum is essentially making an anonymous vote on a person in the name of someone else - if the Trueself votes for Player A, and Player B votes for Player C, and then the Trueself taps a charge of aluminum to make it appear that they voted for Player C as Player B, the the final vote would appear as Player A (0) and Player C (2 - Player B, Player B). It would appear similar to using Allomantic zinc on oneself. Yes, Worldhopper returns random results on scans. I thought it would be interesting to have a game where all the roles and alignments are transparently shown, but it is unknown exactly which ones are in the game. On average, one of the Jack of all Trades or Special Factions (Koloss, Kandra, SoScad) are not in play. Also, while there is possibility of a significantly unbalanced game, most of the times I have run the assignment have assigned relatively balanced numbers of metalborn to Set members. If there was a game outcome that was significantly unbalanced, I could just run the assignment again. I'd prefer creating a system that was perfectly balanced based on RNG to avoid personal bias affecting assignments. If you want, I could attach some of the assignment results. Thanks for the feedback! I appreciate it. EDIT: Note on the RNG for Mistings, Ferrings, and Spiked overlap: I wanted there to be a small chance of there being twinborn/"tripleborn" in the game to mimic the books, so the majority of the complex RNG there is to give that possibility a chance. It means that there is a much higher chance of a role being assigned to a player without a role, but there is a chance a misting could receive an additional ability. Compounding is very rare due to this chance being small multiplied by the chance of getting the same metals. Edited July 3, 2020 by 18th Shard
Straw he/him Posted July 3, 2020 Posted July 3, 2020 40 minutes ago, 18th Shard said: Having the 24/24 cycles is partially to help balance the large number of players. There are that many players simply to help balance between the Set and Koloss factions. I'd read somewhere (I can't find it now) where they said a balanced number of Eliminators was the square root of the number of players, rounded down. I could definitely increase the number of Set. You said 7 or 8 would be around where you think it would be balanced? I wanted there to be balance between the Set and the koloss, with the Set having an advantage at the beginning, and the koloss an advantage late-game. 1. How does cycle length help balance the number of players? Are you meaning in terms of game length? In that case, I'd recommend just doing 48/24 with extra kill power to make the game speed up. 2. Most games tend to be balanced at 20-25%, with roles sometimes changing those numbers slightly (ex: having a smaller elim team with stronger roles). Numbers depend a lot on how much you expect the village to mislynch. With multiple conversions and lives, I'd say the Koloss are fairly equal to a seven/eight member Set, since converting people is far stronger than having them from the start, and Koloss all have double lives. 40 minutes ago, 18th Shard said: Koloss get one convert for every four deaths, although they do have to use that conversion before they can use another (i.e. once 3 people have died they may convert once, but if they don't convert before 7 have died, then they lose that opportunity and still only have one convert). Yes, if it fails, they get to try again. I could definitely make Set immune to being converted, and Dark Alley able to be converted. The point of the Kandra, SoScad, and Worldhopper all being immune is that the koloss would know that their target was one of those roles, but are unsure whether they should try to kill them (Kandra) or avoid killing them (SoScad), with the Worldhopper being a false positive. Again, the SoScad, who no one wants to kill, is meant to be a counter to the Kandra, who everyone wants to kill. I agree that another ability in life would be helpful - any ideas? Makes sense for the Koloss. Yeah, I'd definitely recommend making the Set immune. You could give the Southern Scadrian the same immunity as the Kandra, to make them more on par with each other. That would make things a lot easier for them, since they wouldn't have to worry about being too non-suspicious and having the elims kill them in retaliation. It'd also stop them from losing due to being randomly sniped by an elim or vigilante early on.
Ookla-son-son-Ventyl Posted July 5, 2020 Posted July 5, 2020 (edited) Alright, I’ve gone a little insane for my first game idea. It’s a Rosharan Role Madness Game with Hidden Rules. The concept is Bridge Four v.s the Skybreakers. There is also a Store, with Spheres/Stormlight Charges. I got a lot of inspiration from your LG, Straw. Anyways here is the link to the rule doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/18zfJEex4dm0Bh4eWG0sHuLBac-WlmyghQUof7JDAgJk/edit I may post the hidden rules here, but I feel like that would ruin it for anybody who would wish to play the game. So I’ll just tell you, Vyre and Nale have secrets, and Yelig-nar’s gemstone is kind of OP. Edited July 5, 2020 by Ventyl
Mist she/her Posted July 5, 2020 Posted July 5, 2020 Quote Whoever has the most post at the end of a turn gets 5 Stormlight Charges. To qualify you must have at least 3 posts over 100 words. I'm slightly concerned this will result in another 20 page D1, with people making 3 100 word posts then spamming short posts. I don't understand the Basic Lashing mechanic. 2
Straw he/him Posted July 5, 2020 Posted July 5, 2020 I'm reading through it ATM, but I strongly agree with Mist about the most posts thing. For Basic Lashings, I think this is how they work: Everyone is in one of these four lashed states: X, Y, Z, and normal. If you use an action on someone, and your state is not the same as theirs, your action fails. The one exception to the above is if your state is X, Y, or Z, and their state is normal. You can spend one Stormlight to lash yourself in the X or Y direction, and three Stormlight to lash yourself in the Z direction. So basically, lashing yourself gives you protection from other people, and makes it so you have a chance of hitting other lashed people. The advantage of spending three charges is that if someone wants to hit you, they have to spend three charges as well.
Straw he/him Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 (edited) So, since I don't know what the secrets are, I'm just going to pretend like there aren't any secrets, and just give advice based on the rules. Vyre just being survival with a scan is pretty meh. IMO pure survival roles don't tend to be very interesting, since they don't really have any opposition to work against. Their goal is to pretty much just sit around and try not to get too much attention, which is pretty uninteresting. Giving them some kind of target to kill or something would be interesting. At the very least, give them some kind of ability that's a bit more interesting to use. I feel like it'd be better to not have the Windrunners be confirmed good. Since full lashings are presumably Windrunner-only, it'd be a bit too easy to confirm yourself. Shardblade balancing is going to be tough, since you'll suddenly have a lot of people gaining vigilante abilities. I assume that the Full Skybreaker and Nale do not actually have access to all of the lashings, since one of the lashings involves Adhesion. Full Skybreakers having a blade is very risky, since it'd mean drastically increasing the kill power of the elim team. They probably need it though, given the Basic Lashings going around, and all the people with Shardplate. Could I get some more information on how exactly the store works? When do you buy from it? Can you buy multiple items at once? What happens if two players try to buy the same item? It'd probably be best to set the number of items based on the number of players, rather than putting it in the rules. Nightblood seems very mediocre if it doesn't even kill its target. If you're going to keep it like that, increase the number of times it can be used and make it so it always hits, even if the target is lashed differently. I really don't see much point to the Larkins. They serve as a counter to Nightblood, which isn't great given how restricted Nightblood is already. I don't feel like anyone's going to buy them, so you could remove them from the store without any negative effects. Yelig-nar’s Gemstone really depends on the power of the ten surges, which we don't know since that's secret. Shardblades and Shardplate are going to go very quickly, since you could easily get enough Stormlight to buy them by the start of N1. The knives and blades are also going to go very quickly, and will result in a lot of kill power being added to the game. The big problem I'm seeing with the items is the Skybreakers rushing it and getting tons of kills. Or they could go and buy out all of the bandages so no one can heal injured villagers. Skybreakers are able to work together to buy stuff, which makes them a lot more powerful. The PM Stormlight rewards could get out of control very quickly. In some of my games, people have had hundreds of PM responses (looking at you El and Burnt), which would result in them having hundreds of Stormlight charges. I don't like the reward for lynching/killing a Skybreaker. It feels like it favors the village a bit more than necessary, especially when the Skybreakers have a constant drain on their Stormlight due to Division. It also kind of encourages bussing a bit too much. As Mint said, the most posts thing is problematic. Edited July 6, 2020 by Straw
The Young Pyromancer he/him Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 Re:PM's, something we considered for 66 that didn't end up working was if the thing was per pm, the elims could set up a group PM and just spam messages to each other, or because there were PM spies in that game, just spam a bunch of messages one on one.
|TJ| he/him Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 9 minutes ago, The Young Pyromancer said: Re:PM's, something we considered for 66 that didn't end up working was if the thing was per pm, the elims could set up a group PM and just spam messages to each other, or because there were PM spies in that game, just spam a bunch of messages one on one. Lol, the group PM of me, Pyro and Mage had reached 15 pages
Ookla-son-son-Ventyl Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Straw said: So, since I don't know what the secrets are, I'm just going to pretend like there aren't any secrets, and just give advice based on the rules. Vyre just being survival with a scan is pretty meh. IMO pure survival roles don't tend to be very interesting, since they don't really have any opposition to work against. Their goal is to pretty much just sit around and try not to get too much attention, which is pretty uninteresting. Giving them some kind of target to kill or something would be interesting. At the very least, give them some kind of ability that's a bit more interesting to use. I feel like it'd be better to not have the Windrunners be confirmed good. Since full lashings are presumably Windrunner-only, it'd be a bit too easy to confirm yourself. Shardblade balancing is going to be tough, since you'll suddenly have a lot of people gaining vigilante abilities. I assume that the Full Skybreaker and Nale do not actually have access to all of the lashings, since one of the lashings involves Adhesion. Full Skybreakers having a blade is very risky, since it'd mean drastically increasing the kill power of the elim team. They probably need it though, given the Basic Lashings going around, and all the people with Shardplate. Could I get some more information on how exactly the store works? When do you buy from it? Can you buy multiple items at once? What happens if two players try to buy the same item? It'd probably be best to set the number of items based on the number of players, rather than putting it in the rules. Nightblood seems very mediocre if it doesn't even kill its target. If you're going to keep it like that, increase the number of times it can be used and make it so it always hits, even if the target is lashed differently. I really don't see much point to the Larkins. They serve as a counter to Nightblood, which isn't great given how restricted Nightblood is already. I don't feel like anyone's going to buy them, so you could remove them from the store without any negative effects. Yelig-nar’s Gemstone really depends on the power of the ten surges, which we don't know since that's secret. Shardblades and Shardplate are going to go very quickly, since you could easily get enough Stormlight to buy them by the start of N1. The knives and blades are also going to go very quickly, and will result in a lot of kill power being added to the game. The big problem I'm seeing with the items is the Skybreakers rushing it and getting tons of kills. Or they could go and buy out all of the bandages so no one can heal injured villagers. Skybreakers are able to work together to buy stuff, which makes them a lot more powerful. The PM Stormlight rewards could get out of control very quickly. In some of my games, people have had hundreds of PM responses (looking at you El and Burnt), which would result in them having hundreds of Stormlight charges. I don't like the reward for lynching/killing a Skybreaker. It feels like it favors the village a bit more than necessary, especially when the Skybreakers have a constant drain on their Stormlight due to Division. It also kind of encourages bussing a bit too much. As Mint said, the most posts thing is problematic. I should probably clarify you buy from the store in the night turn. And yeah, I’ll change the amount of items to the amount of players. Also, I’ll buff Nightblood a little bit to give the Larkins more purpose. When I said it has two uses, I meant for player that gets it. So Nale could use his uses, then if someone kills him I might make it so where you could have a chance of getting it, along with other items. That person uses it twice, and then the theif could possibly steal it. Then someone could kill the theif, and so one. So that’s why I’m a little hesitant to buff Nightblood. Yelig-nar’s gemstone is extremely OP, but hopefully not broken. Also, I’ll up the cost of the Plate and Blades. Knives and Blades have to have the Basic Lashings line up. Also, I hope to prevent the Skybreakers from buying them all with Kaladin’s discount. I also might make it 1 per person, except that Kaladin could buy maybe like 4 or 5. Also for the PMs it’s you only get the Stormlight Charge for one reply, not every reply. After that one reply, you don’t get any more Charges from that PM. Regarding the lynch/kill rewards for Skybreakers, I’ll probably get rid of that. I might make it so they need the post to be 200 words. EDIT: Alright I’ve updated some of the rules, especially regarding items. I still need to put in that items are bought at night. Also here is the link to the hidden rules. If you think you would want to play this game, then don’t read them. And if you do, I’ll kindly ask you that you don’t play the game when I finally run it. If you have comments about the rules, I have made it so you can make comments in the doc, as I don’t want to spoil the game in here for anyone who might want to play. https://docs.google.com/document/d/19nGrgreyFNHNd1_bgUg2PsYHIat7LkvMGdLIf3itS74/edit Edited July 6, 2020 by Ventyl wrong link! 1
Ashbringer he/him Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 49 minutes ago, TJ Shade said: Lol, the group PM of me, Pyro and Mage had reached 15 pages What about the one with me? ... I still don’t know what to feel about that.
|TJ| he/him Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 9 minutes ago, Ashbringer said: What about the one with me? ... I still don’t know what to feel about that. Yeah sorry about that xD I mean, we were right to be suspicious of you, and make a group without you I think the one with you had like 5 pages.
Ashbringer he/him Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 True. I had just thought at the end that I’d convinced everyone Karnage was the Kandra, but turns out I was a lot less inconspicuous than I thought I had been... At least you missing Pyro vindicates it somewhat. And you thought I was Elim, not Kandra, if I got that from the Elim doc right
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