Excerpt from Words of Radiance: Chapters Six, Eight, and Nine

[Meg]

Speaking of smoke in curious as to what caused it. 

Where there is some, there is fire.

But Roshar uses spheres for light. Which begs the question, who brought fire to the fight?

On Roshar, too, there are not only spheres for light.

 

Oil lanterns hung in front of buildings, indicating taverns or brothels. Spheres could provide more consistent, renewable light, but you could buy a bundle of candles or a pouch of oil for a single sphere. In the short run, it was often cheaper to do that, particularly if you were hanging your lights in a place they could be stolen.

TWoK Chapter 23

So I'd say that using candles or oil lamps on ships should be avoided, I'm not sure if there would not be at least some candles on the ship (just in case that the gems run out of Stormlight).

 

Easy question, I believe this mean that Rock have the same problem to speak in Alenthi that i have to speak in english we are illiterate folls.  This thing aren't clear huh! Airsick lowlander =)

This! *bg*

We know from TWoK that Rock has yet problems with the Alethi language. And similar to our different languages (for example in English it's "a chair" {= "it"} while in German it's "der Stuhl" {= "he"}) the Horneater people might refer to a broam as "he" while the Alethi do as "it".  

 

Kill them all isn't necessary. Maybe send them all away?

Where would they be sent? This would be about an innumerable count of Parshmen to be sent away.

Giving them to a foe assuming they would stand up against this foe seems kind of counterproductive; I'd fear that Parshmen could/would join forces with the foe, and the result might be, that the foe and the Parshmen together overrun the Alethi people.

[hoser]

Sooo... How does "I will murder the parents that cannot murder themselves" sound for the Second Ideal?

Mr. T is a Lightweaver!

[+eveorjoy]

Where would they be sent? This would be about an innumerable count of Parshmen to be sent away.

Giving them to a foe assuming they would stand up against this foe seems kind of counterproductive; I'd fear that Parshmen could/would join forces with the foe, and the result might be, that the foe and the Parshmen together overrun the Alethi people.

 

Since three people have commented on my earlier, admittedly not well thought out, statement about sending the Parshmen away instead of killing them, I will reply.

 

So yes if Jasnah convinces the Alethi to ditch the Parshmen they will most likely kill them all. It is the simplest solution. I just don't like it. Such a genocide feels wrong. I don't think the Parshendi are the Voidbringers, or at least not originally. Every time a point of view character interacts with one, they come across as dignified, honorable and respectful. Even when they plan to have someone killed they dress their assassin in white to let the victim know they are coming.

 

The Parshendi seem to be the most honorable race we have seen in Roshar thus far. I think the Parshmen are a threat, but killing them all off is not the answer. I liked Moogles suggestion of giving them all back to the Parahendi to take care of. We don't know why the Parshmen are they way they are, but I think Jasnah is on the wrong track. She seems to assume the Parshendi are Parshmen who have been changed, but I think it is the other way around. What if Odium made the Parshendi into Parshmen? Another thread suggests Odium will take over them and attack the people of Roshar. What if that is what happened in the past? What is all the Parshmen are brainwashed victims of Odium stealing their spren or giving them voidspren. I've thought of starting a thread about this myself, but it really is just my speculations.

 

Still, the thought of killing all the Parshmen sickens me. I would have a lot less respect for Jasnah or Dalinar if they promoted such a course of action. Do you think Kaladin or any of Bridge Four would stand by and let Shen be executed? 

[Shardlet]

Well, the Eshonai interlude indicates that the Parshendi and the Parshmen are the same, but that the Parshmen currently do not occupy one of the Parshendi forms.  I also agree that Jasnah is missing some important information and has therefore drawn a conclusion that is not completely accurate.  But, if Parshmen and Parshendi alike will be taken over by Odium (or any other non-physical entity), and the Parsh have no defense against such a takeover, and if the Alethi (or anyone else) cannot take any action to prevent such a takeover, then is it wrong to seek their extermination?  Tune in to this thread for a discussion of this.

[Maximus]

What if only Parshen that aren't already in a form can be taken over?

[+eveorjoy]

Well, the Eshonai interlude indicates that the Parshendi and the Parshmen are the same, but that the Parshmen currently do not occupy one of the Parshendi forms.  I also agree that Jasnah is missing some important information and has therefore drawn a conclusion that is not completely accurate.  But, if Parshmen and Parshendi alike will be taken over by Odium (or any other non-physical entity), and the Parsh have no defense against such a takeover, and if the Alethi (or anyone else) cannot take any action to prevent such a takeover, then is it wrong to seek their extermination?  Tune in to this thread for a discussion of this.

 

If the Parshendi cannot prevent being taken over, then I think they would rather die they become Odium's slaves. They may have killed Galivar for that very reason. But Jasnah is not at the point yet where she can prove they parshmen are voidbringers. I agree with much of her evidence, but before planning  genocide I would hope she would go to Urthihu first and confirm that their was no other way.

 

The Parshendi are people and the Parshmen might have potential to return to being like them. Also, there might be a way to prevent Odium from taking them over. In the end, if the Parshmen are taken over by Odium then what they do is not their choice. Kaladin said it best when he said the only thing lower than a bridgemen is a parshmen bridgemen. They are the lowest victims in Roshar and killing them all of would be so tragic.  

 

If it is absolutely the only way to defeat Odium then yes it should be done. However,  without solid proof or unless they actually turn on the humans killing them is going too far.

[Shardlet]

What if only Parshen that aren't already in a form can be taken over?

 

The fears of the Parshendi suggest otherwise.

 

 

 

If the Parshendi cannot prevent being taken over, then I think they would rather die they become Odium's slaves. They may have killed Galivar for that very reason. But Jasnah is not at the point yet where she can prove they parshmen are voidbringers. I agree with much of her evidence, but before planning  genocide I would hope she would go to Urthihu first and confirm that their was no other way.

 

The Parshendi are people and the Parshmen might have potential to return to being like them. Also, there might be a way to prevent Odium from taking them over. In the end, if the Parshmen are taken over by Odium then what they do is not their choice. Kaladin said it best when he said the only thing lower than a bridgemen is a parshmen bridgemen. They are the lowest victims in Roshar and killing them all of would be so tragic.  

 

If it is absolutely the only way to defeat Odium then yes it should be done. However,  without solid proof or unless they actually turn on the humans killing them is going too far.

 

I hope that she has time or finds information to reshape her plans.  I think the genocide plan will blow up in their faces if carried out.  I would suggest that Brandon's morality and that of his readers would demand it.

[Maximus]

The fears of the Parshendi suggest otherwise.

 

Can you elaborate on that a little? As far as I was aware the idea of anyone being taken over was merely theoretical.

[skaa]

What if only Parshen that aren't already in a form can be taken over?

Then it'd be better to turn the Parshmen into Worker form Parshendi. Heck, they could even keep some of them as servants that way (though I'm sure most will want to gain freedom at some point).

As for Lightweavers' Second Ideal and the Creative Attribute, remember that the Ideals all came from Nohadon's book The Way of Kings, which is all about virtuous living. So "creative" in this sense will probably be less of the "artistic" type and more of the "solving problems" type. I think Lightweavers were supposed to be a really helpful bunch; they were probably the consultants and councillors of Ancient Roshar. In this case, I think the Creative Attribute shined brightest in Shallan's participation in the plan to save her family. That's where she showed Lightweaver-worthy creativity; her artistic ability I think was only secondary. (This is all under the assumption that the Second Ideal is always related to the Primary Attribute, of course )

Edited January 24, 2014 by skaa

[Maximus]

Then it'd be better to turn the Parshmen into Worker form Parshendi. Heck, they could even keep some of them as servants that way (though I'm sure most will want to gain freedom at some point).

 

Indeed. I am not really putting this forward as a likely theory, but as one of many scenarios where genocide is not the best option(there's a phrase for you) even if the idea that Parshen are voidbringers has basis. 

[Shardlet]

I was referring to the Parshendi fears of the return of their dark gods.  They assassinated the king of arguably the most powerful nation in Roshar to prevent him from taken some action that they perceived would lead to that result.   Even with the knowledge that it would almost certainly lead to a devastating war.

[Maximus]

I was referring to the Parshendi fears of the return of their dark gods.  They assassinated the king of arguably the most powerful nation in Roshar to prevent him from taken some action that they perceived would lead to that result.   Even with the knowledge that it would almost certainly lead to a devastating war.

 

Right, but that says nothing about who gets taken over. We know nothing about the nature of those dark gods as far as I am aware.

 

Edit: In fact here's a scenario: Perhaps their dark gods are voidspren that can take over "slave form" Parshen, turning them into monsters and triggering a genocide by the humans against the Parshendi.

 

Edit2: Taking this line of conversation to the genocide thread.

Edited January 23, 2014 by Maximus

[Shardlet]

Right, but that says nothing about who gets taken over. We know nothing about the nature of those dark gods as far as I am aware.

 

Edit: In fact here's a scenario: Perhaps their dark gods are voidspren that can take over "slave form" Parshen, turning them into monsters and triggering a genocide by the humans against the Parshendi.

 

Edit2: Taking this line of conversation to the genocide thread.

 

Well, I did say "suggests".  I did not say "proves" or "affirms".

[Maximus]

I don't see how it even suggests that, but to each their own.

[Delightful]

That's probably true, yeah. Of course, while he might have said that for that reason, Brandon might have had multiple reasons for putting that dialogue in... like, say, to hint at another way to harness Rosharian Investiture.

I know, I know, I should stop making such random theories... *grumbles while walking away*

Well we do know that Lift accesses Investiture/stormlight by eating so there could be something in that.

[ccstat]

Go check how Rock talks in the first book.

I did this. After reading all of Rock's quotes, I didn't find any cases of swapped pronouns, though he does frequently drop pronouns at the beginning of clauses. So, I could go either way on this. He does have a unique speech pattern, and "him" in reference to the broam could be just a manifestation of that. Or, since this is the first time this particular irregularity has manifested, it could well be something more significant like a spren sighting.

[don_karma_II]

I did this. After reading all of Rock's quotes, I didn't find any cases of swapped pronouns, though he does frequently drop pronouns at the beginning of clauses. So, I could go either way on this. He does have a unique speech pattern, and "him" in reference to the broam could be just a manifestation of that. Or, since this is the first time this particular irregularity has manifested, it could well be something more significant like a spren sighting.

 upvote for that!!!

 

Maybe I'm not imagining things after all!! 

[Musica]

can I just say that when I read the part where Pattern says "terrible destruction!" I couldn't help but hear Davaros's voice in my head (from Doctor Who) LOL

 

about Syl- I always liked her and she just keeps getting better and better!

[masaru]

No idea if this was pointed out anywhere in this thread so apologies if redundant, but I remember some discussion about how many previews we will get and when. From BS blog about chapter previews (through 6, 8, 9) being up and other news:

 

the final batch is coming on Tuesday.

[kobain]

the final batch is coming on Tuesday.

 

 

I can hardly wait. . . I'm sure they're going to blow our minds, and are going to leave us speculating for the next 4 weeks.

[+eveorjoy]

I wonder if we will read the end of part one in the next batch. I heard part one ends on a cliffhanger. Maybe that is when Kaladin will see Amaram again.

 

I also wonder if we will get any more Shallan chapters. Any later chapters would spoil the suspense created from leaving seven out of the last batch. I hope we get to see Sigzel testing Kaladin in the next batch. It would be a good teaser and I doubt it would give more of the story away than we already have.

 

Regardless, I'm sure some big hooks are coming in the last batch. Oh the next four weeks will be tough.

Edited January 27, 2014 by eveorjoy

[Delightful]

 

 

the final batch is coming on Tuesday.

Dumb question, but Tuesday which timezone?

 

Can't.....wait......zombie..........

[lummi]

so it comes out around 7 on this forums time. that means in 1 and a half hours.

So in CET it's around 18:00

Edited January 28, 2014 by lummi

[EvilNuff]

I see people commenting on Szeth not having a spren.  We don't know that he does not.  In fact until the WoR chapters we did not know that Jasnah had a spren.  

 

Edit: of course shortly after I posted that new chapters went up which address this indirectly...

Edited January 28, 2014 by EvilNuff

[Scrutiny]

I see people commenting on Szeth not having a spren.  We don't know that he does not.  In fact until the WoR chapters we did not know that Jasnah had a spren.  

 

I think Szeth not having a spren is WoB.