Shardlet Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) Just some thoughts: My immediate assumption when Jasnah said Soulcasting had become more dangerous was it was a recent thing ie. within the last few years. Jasnah is a scientist it seems out of place for her to make such a definitive statement with out first hand experience. How about "I will discover truths that are hidden" for the 2nd ideal of the lightweavers. At first glance I was quite dubious as to this idea. However, how else would she know if not from personal experience? Although, Words of Radiance (the in-book one), being a good source of info on the Lightweavers, may have had sufficient information to make such a determination by comparison of accounts in the book with her own current experience. Edit: I thought we decided that the second ideal was "I murdered my father." Edited January 23, 2014 by Shardlet 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delightful Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Does anyone else feel like Dalinar being the one wrote on the wall is too easy an answer? It makes sense and I can't think of another explanation but it would be just like Brandon to turn around halfway through the book, turn the whole thing on its head and say 'haha its this other secretly foreshadowed thing you never saw coming!' 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 At first glance ... Edit: I thought we decided that the second ideal was "I murdered my father." Nice! Or maybe "All your parents are murdered by me." Maybe Szeth is a Radiant after all . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mage of Lirigon Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Out of everything I saw in the excerpts, the stuff about Dalinar and the Radiants was the most interesting. He really is a lynchpin for what's going on and what's going to happen As usual, Kaladin and Syl's relationship is pretty interesting, and a true joy to read about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
don_karma_II Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 For Shallan, second ideal could be "I'll illuminate those that have been hidden" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
don_karma_II Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 For jasnah, second ideal could be " I'll find/learn those that have been lost" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skaa Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) I was under the impression that the Second Ideal of an Order had something to do with the Primary Divine Attribute associated with its Essence. So for Windrunners it is "Protecting". For Edgedancers it is "Loving" (or in Lift's words "caring"), which if you think about it is one way to interpret "I will remember those who have been forgotten". Basically, they promise to perform a particular virtue towards those who need it the most. For Shallan, "illuminating what's hidden" sounds like a function of "Honesty", which is her Secondary Divine Attribute, not her Primary one (which is "Creative"), so that can't be her Second Ideal. Perhaps it's her Third Ideal? As for "learning what was lost", that sounds more like the 5th/Palah Order's "Learned" Attribute, though it's an understandable error since the Ars Arcanum of WoK mistakenly switched the 5th and 7th's Divine Attributes. (Whoops, it appears it was actually the 5th and 2nd Divine attributes that was switched.) If I'm correct about the Primary Divine Attribute connection, then the Lightweavers' Second Ideal would be something like "I will create/find a way for those who are desperate", while the Elsecallers would have something like "I will enlighten those in grave error". Edited January 24, 2014 by skaa 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havon Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 It's a smart marketing ploy to release small excerpts of the book. Those that read the samples will want the book even more. Smart Tor, smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
don_karma_II Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 I will enlighten those in grave error! Will she try to do that with darkness? I would love that if she tried.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+eveorjoy Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Edit: I thought we decided that the second ideal was "I murdered my father." Lightweavers are a bloodthirsty bunch. Does anyone else feel like Dalinar being the one wrote on the wall is too easy an answer? It makes sense and I can't think of another explanation but it would be just like Brandon to turn around halfway through the book, turn the whole thing on its head and say 'haha its this other secretly foreshadowed thing you never saw coming!' I agree, I still think a Parshmen (Shen? A servant in Dalinar's rooms?) could have done it. Still, Dalinar writing the message would work for the narrative, because it suggests something is wrong with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skaa Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Here's a random thought: what if "Pattern" dislikes the concept of eating because it's possible to devour bondingspren like Cryptics somehow? We know that spren can be trapped in gemhearts to access a certain magical effect. What if devouring and metabolizing a spren can produce a greater effect, the same way "burning" metals does in Allomancy? What if one of the intelligent species on Roshar have been Invested with the ability to "burn" spren? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
don_karma_II Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Here's a random thought: what if "Pattern" dislikes the concept of eating because it's possible to devour bondingspren like Cryptics somehow? We know that spren can be trapped in gemhearts to access a certain magical effect. What if devouring and metabolizing a spren can produce a greater effect, the same way "burning" metals does in Allomancy? What if one of the intelligent species on Roshar have been Invested with the ability to "burn" spren? No, I believe Pattern dislikes destruction in general because Shallan's primary attribute is Creative. So destruction being completely opposite seems completely vulgar and loathsome to Pattern. I believe its the same reason Syl hates killing. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skaa Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 No, I believe Pattern dislikes destruction in general because Shallan's primary attribute is Creative. So destruction being completely opposite seems completely vulgar and loathsome to Pattern. I believe its the same reason Syl hates killing. That's probably true, yeah. Of course, while he might have said that for that reason, Brandon might have had multiple reasons for putting that dialogue in... like, say, to hint at another way to harness Rosharian Investiture. I know, I know, I should stop making such random theories... *grumbles while walking away* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Count Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 That's probably true, yeah. Of course, while he might have said that for that reason, Brandon might have had multiple reasons for putting that dialogue in... like, say, to hint at another way to harness Rosharian Investiture. I know, I know, I should stop making such random theories... *grumbles while walking away* Could be more simple than that, the fruit was poisoned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
askthepaperclip Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Only on 17thShard will a theory that a random piece of fruit is poisoned be considered "simple." lol 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moist_von_Lipwig Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Indeed. You see, this is what Brandon has done to us, with all the foreshadowing and referencing he does. The 17thShard is the sort of place where a theory stating "This rock was a different shade of brown to the other rocks. It clearly has great significance." probably wouldn't be that out of place. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 This made me picture Dalinar learning about Kaladin's path to a KR by having Syl see one of the fabrials, turning visible and going off on Navani. LmaoEh. Syl probably recognises the difference between standard and sentient spren like we see the difference between plants and people. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardlet Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) Nice! Or maybe "All your parents are murdered by me." Maybe Szeth is a Radiant after all . If that is the case, then the third ideal is likely, "All your base are belong to us!" Edited January 23, 2014 by Shardlet 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 We don't for certain that the Second Ideal is about the primary Divine Attribute. I support this theory, but wanted to give you a heads up - it's a theory, not a fact. Yet. Regarding Pattern's feelings towards eating... I am not sure if the Lightweavers' primary Divine Attribute (creative) is necessarily juxtaposed with destruction. When I think of someone creative, I don't put them on the opposite end of someone destructive. Bah, stupid English, kolo? What I am trying to say is that being creative and creating things are not the same things in my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morsk Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 "Creative" means something odd on Roshar, where Shallan draws creationspren by making photorealistic art. I'd expect something more insightful, stylized, or interpretive would be more creative, but that's not what gets the spren. Also, spren categorize into emotions, natural, and voidish. Creationspren don't fit easily, but in a setting where Transformation is a surge, "natural" is somewhat broader than the physical. Helping Cognitive abstractions into a Physical form could be what draws creationspren, and they'd categorize with other natural, Cultivation-based spren. After all, what gets the most creationspren ever is helping Pattern cross over. "I will create things that cannot creative themselves," is a bit goofy sounding, but I expect that's what it will be, if rephrased. It's what she did for Pattern anyway. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardlet Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) "Creative" means something odd on Roshar, where Shallan draws creationspren by making photorealistic art. I'd expect something more insightful, stylized, or interpretive would be more creative, but that's not what gets the spren. Also, spren categorize into emotions, natural, and voidish. Creationspren don't fit easily, but in a setting where Transformation is a surge, "natural" is somewhat broader than the physical. Helping Cognitive abstractions into a Physical form could be what draws creationspren, and they'd categorize with other natural, Cultivation-based spren. After all, what gets the most creationspren ever is helping Pattern cross over. "I will create things that cannot creative themselves," is a bit goofy sounding, but I expect that's what it will be, if rephrased. It's what she did for Pattern anyway. In the case of Shallan and Pattern though, what could be more creative than bringing a living concept into the physical realm? I suspect that this is why there are so many creationspren that turned up. Also, it should be noted that they are called creationspren rather than creativespren or artspren. Edit: maybe I should read the whole post I'm responding to before responding. Edited January 23, 2014 by Shardlet 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 "I will create things that cannot creative themselves," is a bit goofy sounding, but I expect that's what it will be, if rephrased. It's what she did for Pattern anyway. I also don't want us to get bogged down in the idea that all of the Second Ideals are of the form "I will [primary Divine Attribute] those who [state of lack or need of said primary attribute]." It could very well be that the Lightweavers' Second Ideal reads something like "I will create." 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 For creative, something that ties in the secondary attribute might work. Somthing like "I will create revelations of a deeper truth," but not nearly as awkward. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PorridgeBrick Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Nice! Or maybe "All your parents are murdered by me." Maybe Szeth is a Radiant after all . I also don't want us to get bogged down in the idea that all of the Second Ideals are of the form "I will [primary Divine Attribute] those who [state of lack or need of said primary attribute]." It could very well be that the Lightweavers' Second Ideal reads something like "I will create." Sooo... How does "I will murder the parents that cannot murder themselves" sound for the Second Ideal? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awesomeness Summoned Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Sooo... How does "I will murder the parents that cannot murder themselves" sound for the Second Ideal? slightly kavorkian and makes me feel like we should keep lightweavers away from hospitals and retirement homes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts