unknown shards We haven't known Trell yet

[Sam Script]

Yes, Trell again. I don't know if anyone have indicated the following. Correct me if my realization gets anything wrong.

So here comes two quotes from TheoryLand Interview Database (Harmony bless the providers):

Quote

QUESTION

Is there any connection between Odium and Trell?

BRANDON SANDERSON

[Brandon hems and haws for a moment.] Um…yes, there is some connection. That’s a question where if you understood it then great, if you didn’t then don’t worry.

And:

Quote

QUESTION

Have we ever seen the Physical embodiment of either Odium or Cultivation? Similar to what we saw with Ruin chasing...Vin?

BRANDON SANDERSON

So *pause* physical embodiment is kind of hard thing to define with Shards because you could argue that everything is a physical embodiment of them, does that make sense?

QUESTION

Yes. I mean more a physical form that the uses share--

BRANDON SANDERSON

Oh okay, okay. So have you ever seen Odium’s? I don’t believe you’ve seen Odium’s.

QUESTION

What about Cultivation’s?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Cultivation is a RAFO.

And so, we got two big points:

1)Trell is related to Odium.

2)We haven't seen Odium's embodiment yet.

This interview took place in 2/14/2016, when BoM had released. In BoM, we've seen Trellium, believed to be Trell's metal, even though we are not sure about who or what Intent he really is.

There's quite a lot comments speculating that Trell is actually Odium. And I think it's an attractive idea as well. But in my recognition we have no evidence supporting that yet.

And now, the two entries seem to tell us that Trell is actually, not Odium. We've seen Trellium, but no Odium's embodiment for now.

And maybe it's Bavadin? I don't believe that.

But there are still seven Shards we haven't known running outside the Shardworlds we've seen. Sometimes we just ignored these possibilities. Seven unknown Shards.

Thus, I believe Trell, if a Shard, would be one of the Seven rather than Odium or Autonomy.

And what Trellium looks like give me a sense that he's nothing cute, either.

What do you think?

[goody153]

I think by the time that "force" was threatening to enter Scandrial, Odium is still stuck in Greater Roshar(Braize). So it's probably Autonomy like this WoB hinted.

Maybe assuming [STORMLIGHT ARCHIVES SPOILERS abit ]

Spoiler

Since according to the Stormlight archives timeline, book 5 of stormlight archives is around BoM of Misborn. So possibly if for some damnation reason those dudes from Stormlight screwed up bigtime and managed to release Odium then yeah that might be Odium in BoM or maybe both Odium and Bavadin

Or maybe it's Autonomy upfront but Odium is indirectly assisting and dedicating some of his focus to Scandrial.

But Autonomy(if i'm right) at the time of BoM might just be the beginning and the 2nd mistborn series might end without much progression in the part of Harmony vs Whoever that shard is. And the progress of that will be a long battle which will be shown later

Edited July 11, 2016 by goody153

[WeiryWriter]

10 hours ago, Sam Script said:

Thus, I believe Trell, if a Shard, would be one of the Seven rather than Odium or Autonomy.

Unfortunately we do have this WoB:

Quote

Q: Is the metal in Bleeder from a Shard that we know of?

A: Yes.

 

[Ari]

26 minutes ago, WeiryWriter said:

Unfortunately we do have this WoB:

 

That doesn't precisely rule out once of the unknown Shards being Trell, even though I don't think they are, it just rules out any of them using their own godmetals for spikes.

[Lightspine]

10 minutes ago, Ari said:

That doesn't precisely rule out once of the unknown Shards being Trell, even though I don't think they are, it just rules out any of them using their own godmetals for spikes.

The spike mentioned is believed to be of Trelliun, however.

[DeTess]

I don't think trell is autonomy though. The BoM epilogue regarding Trell's "faceless immortals" suggests Trell's intent is quite the opposite to autonomy. I therefore agree that Trell is likely an unknown shard, with an intent related to controlling or commanding things.

[Argel]

Could Brandon being wiggling out of that one? That is, even if Trell is a "new to us shard", since we have heard of Trell, we already know of him? Well, there's the really obvious cheat -- we know of the 16 shards. Not sure how much we should read into that answer.

Edited July 11, 2016 by Argel

[Sam Script]

12 hours ago, WeiryWriter said:

Unfortunately we do have this WoB:

 

Thanks for the WoB!!!

And it occurred to me that Trellium is "a silvery metal with a red cast to it, and dark red spots similar to rust."

Maybe Trellium is influenced by Rayse, but not full embodiment of Odium, thus the fact that it is from a Shard we know will make sense as well.

Advanced, it might indicate that TrellShard (temporary call) is under control of, or at least, influenced by Rayse.

I still believe that TrellShard is one of the Seven left. I really don't think it would be Autonomy. Being welcome more comments varied from here :DDD

[Lightspine]

22 hours ago, Argel said:

Could Brandon being wiggling out of that one? That is, even if Trell is a "new to us shard", since we have heard of Trell, we already know of him? Well, there's the really obvious cheat -- we know of the 16 shards. Not sure how much we should read into that answer.

I believe that there are also other ways for him to wiggle around. For example, what if Trell had the power of two shards, like Harmony? (Let's say, Odium and some other shard) We know Harmonium is a metal, so Trell would still have his own metal. The Trellium spike technically wouldn't be Odium's physical embodiment, because it would be a mix of that and another shard's. He could claim we know of the shard if we knew both the shards that it was comprised of. I don't entirely believe this, but it should be noted Harmony couldn't defeat Trell, which either means that Trell is equally or more powerful, Harmony is too inexperienced with his power, or is just ineffective because his two intents cancel each other out.

[asterion137]

On 7/11/2016 at 2:58 AM, Sam Script said:

1)Trell is related to Odium.

2)We haven't seen Odium's embodiment yet.

well "physical embodiment" in the context of that question means more like a physical presence "like ruin chasing vin". So a godmetal might not count.

[Mason Wheeler]

Where is the term "Trellium" coming from?  I don't believe I've ever seen that used in canon or WoB.

I do, however, recall WoB that Odium "is very concerned about" Sazed and is actively taking steps to undermine him.  From this, it seems that the most logical candidate for the name of this metal would be "Raysium", though of course that's still speculation on my part.

[Sam Script]

1 hour ago, asterion137 said:

well "physical embodiment" in the context of that question means more like a physical presence "like ruin chasing vin". So a godmetal might not count.

Ohh, so what would you think instead? I'm eager to know what Embodiment exactly mean

1 hour ago, Mason Wheeler said:

Where is the term "Trellium" coming from?  I don't believe I've ever seen that used in canon or WoB.

I do, however, recall WoB that Odium "is very concerned about" Sazed and is actively taking steps to undermine him.  From this, it seems that the most logical candidate for the name of this metal would be "Raysium", though of course that's still speculation on my part

Take that bro: http://coppermind.net/wiki/trellium

[Mason Wheeler]

6 minutes ago, Sam Script said:

Take that bro: http://coppermind.net/wiki/trellium

I saw that. I also saw the disclaimer that it's something fan-created with no canonical basis.

[Windrunner]

Trellium is a fanon term that I put into the wiki after talking to the other wiki admins. "God metal related to an unknown Shard" doesn't exactly roll off the tongue and isn't a very good name for a wiki page. We wouldn't call it raysium or bavadinium unless it is explicitly confirmed to be related to Odium or Autonomy. And I wouldn't say it has absolutely no canonical basis. It is a very logical temporary term as the in-world characters believe it to be related to the Shard referred to as Trell.

[teknopathetic]

On 7/12/2016 at 6:56 AM, randuir said:

I don't think trell is autonomy though. The BoM epilogue regarding Trell's "faceless immortals" suggests Trell's intent is quite the opposite to autonomy. I therefore agree that Trell is likely an unknown shard, with an intent related to controlling or commanding things.

Autonomy could desire that his people never feel the outside influence of other shards. Autonomy could value the autonomy of himself and his people over the autonomy of the Cosmere. A person's personality filters the intention of a shard, and Autonomy might have been a title solipsistic. 

 

[asterion137]

4 hours ago, Sam Script said:

Ohh, so what would you think instead? I'm eager to know what Embodiment exactly means

A physical body/presence like Ruin and Preservations' mist-person forms (the stormfather or nightwatcher might count too since Brandon RAFO'd it)

[Argel]

7 hours ago, Lightspine said:

I don't entirely believe this, but it should be noted Harmony couldn't defeat Trell

I don't think he's had the opportunity to try. There's no evidence there is a new shard on Scadrial. Significant interference isn't the same thing. Odium is trapped on Braize but he's still able to cause all kinds of mischief. 

[asterion137]

7 hours ago, Lightspine said:

I believe that there are also other ways for him to wiggle around. For example, what if Trell had the power of two shards, like Harmony? (Let's say, Odium and some other shard) We know Harmonium is a metal, so Trell would still have his own metal. The Trellium spike technically wouldn't be Odium's physical embodiment, because it would be a mix of that and another shard's. He could claim we know of the shard if we knew both the shards that it was comprised of. I don't entirely believe this, but it should be noted Harmony couldn't defeat Trell, which either means that Trell is equally or more powerful, Harmony is too inexperienced with his power, or is just ineffective because his two intents cancel each other out.

I'm not sure Harmony not being able to defeat trell means Trell is just as powerful as Harmony. It might be because Sazed is unable to leave Scadrial to finish off Trell after driving him off.

Edited July 13, 2016 by asterion137
clarity issues

[DeTess]

7 hours ago, teknopathetic said:

Autonomy could desire that his people never feel the outside influence of other shards. Autonomy could value the autonomy of himself and his people over the autonomy of the Cosmere. A person's personality filters the intention of a shard, and Autonomy might have been a title solipsistic. 

 

Oh, I agree, however, in the epilogue I mentioned, the following was said (BoM spoilers bellow, emphasis mine):

Spoiler

"Recent advances have made civilization here too dangerous. Allowing it to continue risks further advances we cannot control, and so we have decided to remove life from this sphere instead."

I personally can't link this to autonomy in any way.

 

[BeskarKomrk]

On 7/11/2016 at 5:58 AM, Sam Script said:

Quote

QUESTION

Is there any connection between Odium and Trell?

BRANDON SANDERSON

[Brandon hems and haws for a moment.] Um…yes, there is some connection. That’s a question where if you understood it then great, if you didn’t then don’t worry.

This WoB is actually very interesting to me. It's hard to tell because it's a verbal interaction and not written down by Brandon himself, but it seems to me like he's using Connection here in the Cosmere sense. This leads me to believe that Odium himself is not Trell, but rather an entity or being Connected to Odium is Trell. This could potentially be a lot of other beings depending on how strong the Connection is (I'm thinking of how Kelsier was Connected to Ruin despite not intentionally supporting him).

[asterion137]

4 hours ago, BeskarKomrk said:

This WoB is actually very interesting to me. It's hard to tell because it's a verbal interaction and not written down by Brandon himself, but it seems to me like he's using Connection here in the Cosmere sense. This leads me to believe that Odium himself is not Trell, but rather an entity or being Connected to Odium is Trell. This could potentially be a lot of other beings depending on how strong the Connection is (I'm thinking of how Kelsier was Connected to Ruin despite not intentionally supporting him).

could be any of the 16 then because they all knew each other

[PallonianFire]

Still think Trell is Autonomy, with Odium's support on the ground (svrakiss). Odium is scared of Harmony, so he wouldn't want to directly face him. But his old pal Bavadin is around and really doesn't like the way Harmony is controlling people like puppets, so Odium convinced him to do some dirty work with a little support.

[Left]

I feel like there's enough wiggle room that saying that Trell is someone new doesn't go against any facts we know of. But it feels like it's stretching things beyond reasonability... 

I'm in the Trell=Dominion or at least Selish shardic interference camp. There is a really good case for Trell being tied to Autonomy and Bavadin obviously, but i personally just don't like that option as much. The Odium theory has seemed odd to me from the beginning... I guess I rank it as being about as likely as Trell being an unknown member of the 16. The two theories just seem to stretch so little so much, and don't sound cool to me for whatever reason. 

Ive definitely enjoyed this thread though. 

[Sam Script]

32 minutes ago, PallonianFire said:

Still think Trell is Autonomy, with Odium's support on the ground (svrakiss). Odium is scared of Harmony, so he wouldn't want to directly face him. But his old pal Bavadin is around and really doesn't like the way Harmony is controlling people like puppets, so Odium convinced him to do some dirty work with a little support.

Let me remind that there were never comments indicating that Autonomy is allied with Odium. We are not sure about their relationship at all. Yes we all know Hoid had beef toward both of 'em, but the reasons could possibly be seperate.

Also, when do we have quotes about Svrakiss? I'll appreciate your explanation cuz I have no idea what you're saying about it and Odium.

6 hours ago, BeskarKomrk said:

This WoB is actually very interesting to me. It's hard to tell because it's a verbal interaction and not written down by Brandon himself, but it seems to me like he's using Connection here in the Cosmere sense. This leads me to believe that Odium himself is not Trell, but rather an entity or being Connected to Odium is Trell.

Interesting thoughts, I've noticed that as well, but no further thinking as I believe it is not referred to Connection. But yeah, we should take it in, too. Thanks anyway

[Argel]

So, if Trell is Autonomy, is he piggy backing on the Trell from ancient Scadrial history or was the original concern Ruin and Preservation working together (i.e. the ancient Trell was also Autonomy)?