PallonianFire he/him Posted July 22, 2016 Posted July 22, 2016 11 hours ago, ParadoxSpren said: I wonder if Bavadin is still alive, or perhaps the Shard belongs to another Vessel, and their perception of Autonomy is a genocidal decision to remove perceuived threats to it's and the humans it guards Autonomy.... I asked this at JordanCon. He said he wasn't sure if he'd answered it before, but to be safe he gave me a RAFO. I have a strong suspicion that Bavadin is no longer alive as of Mistborn Era 2, and another character from White Sand has Ascended to become Autonomy.
Argel he/him Posted July 22, 2016 Posted July 22, 2016 I missed that one. Very interesting. It does suggest something is up. Could Autonomy be the 4th shard that Odium killed? White Sand was not out in an official capacity yet, so not sure if Autonomy counts as one we have or haven't seen.
Mason Wheeler Posted July 22, 2016 Posted July 22, 2016 40 minutes ago, Argel said: I missed that one. Very interesting. It does suggest something is up. Could Autonomy be the 4th shard that Odium killed? White Sand was not out in an official capacity yet, so not sure if Autonomy counts as one we have or haven't seen. Unlikely, seeing as how in the quote everyone keeps referring back to, Hoid implies that Rayse and Bavadin are both still around. (Otherwise, why would he be perpetuating a grudge against them?)
Argel he/him Posted July 22, 2016 Posted July 22, 2016 (edited) Yeah, but on the other hand, why the RAFO on Bavadin? Maybe Hoid and Frost don't know, though that seems hard to believe. Edit: Off on a tangent, does Hoid's "luck" power ever warn him where not to be? Edited July 23, 2016 by Argel
ParadoxicalZen he/him Posted July 23, 2016 Posted July 23, 2016 Remember, there's a time gap between SA half 1 and 2, with Era 1.5/2 happening in between. 1
Sam Script he/him Posted July 23, 2016 Author Posted July 23, 2016 Quote BRANDON SANDERSON Odium has killed at least one more Shard than the ones we know about. @Argel The quote is from here: http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1091#3 Idaho Falls Signing Report, Nov. 29th 2014. At that point we've known Bavadin but haven't known Autonomy. So that's pretty awkward whether he could be counted as "one Shard we knew". But I think the other killed one was in the very Seven left. Tho I might be wrong.
Jondesu he/him Posted July 23, 2016 Posted July 23, 2016 (edited) 4 hours ago, Mason Wheeler said: Unlikely, seeing as how in the quote everyone keeps referring back to, Hoid implies that Rayse and Bavadin are both still around. (Otherwise, why would he be perpetuating a grudge against them?) If the grudge was because of something they both did in the past and Hoid is acting against them and seeking to undo whatever they did, he could still be perpetuating that grudge, even though one of them is no longer alive. Also, it's possible (though admittedly unlikely from what we know of him) that Hoid simply doesn't know that Bavadin is dead. I think it's a very interesting idea, but we don't really have any evidence for it that I know of (I haven't gotten a chance to get White Sand yet, so I don't know if it contains any more details). 40 minutes ago, Sam Script said: At that point we've known Bavadin but haven't known Autonomy. So that's pretty awkward whether he could be counted as "one Shard we knew". The WoB says Odium shattered one more Shard than we know about, not that we don't know about the Shard itself. We don't know that Autonomy has been shattered; so it could definitely fit the criteria there. jW Edited July 23, 2016 by Jondesu 1
Ari he/him Posted July 23, 2016 Posted July 23, 2016 12 hours ago, Argel said: Well, that would be preserving his creations though, right? Or at least giving them the best shot he could. Yeah, survival instinct doesn't explain a lot of things, but I think if shard is attacked directly they could respond despite their intent. I could be wrong, but I just have hard time believing that a vessel/shard could be coup de gras'd because its intent prevented it from defending itself. Seems anti-climatic.... Right, but he's stuck in a catch-22 as far as his Intent is concerned between preserving himself and preserving his creations. So if the Intent functions as a blanket prohibition against destroying things, he shouldn't have been able to hurt himself like that without overriding it. What this means is that we don't know for sure that a Shard's Intent applies to themselves. There have been enough counter-examples that it's difficult to dismiss the hypothesis with Occam's razor, and requires some speculation no matter which side you come down on. 1 hour ago, Sam Script said: @Argel The quote is from here: http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1091#3 Idaho Falls Signing Report, Nov. 29th 2014. At that point we've known Bavadin but haven't known Autonomy. So that's pretty awkward whether he could be counted as "one Shard we knew". But I think the other killed one was in the very Seven left. Tho I might be wrong. Except other quotes have implied that Brandon has been counting Autonomy as a known Shard, particularly ones about whether Autonomy is in consideration for being Trell. (which Brandon referred to as a known shard) We could confirm with a tweet or something similar to be sure because I suppose technically there is some small amount of wiggle room there, but I'm at somewhere like 95% confidence that the answer is that Odium hasn't (yet) Shattered Autonomy. Brandon's previous answers where he's allowed people to misinterpret what he's saying haven't rested on quite so detailed a technicality. 1
Jondesu he/him Posted July 23, 2016 Posted July 23, 2016 2 hours ago, Ari said: Except other quotes have implied that Brandon has been counting Autonomy as a known Shard, particularly ones about whether Autonomy is in consideration for being Trell. (which Brandon referred to as a known shard) We could confirm with a tweet or something similar to be sure because I suppose technically there is some small amount of wiggle room there, but I'm at somewhere like 95% confidence that the answer is that Odium hasn't (yet) Shattered Autonomy. Brandon's previous answers where he's allowed people to misinterpret what he's saying haven't rested on quite so detailed a technicality. I read that WoB completely different. We know Odium splintered Honor, Dominion, and Devotion. He's saying there's one other Shard that we don't know has been splintered. Not that we don't know of the Shard. jW
Ari he/him Posted July 23, 2016 Posted July 23, 2016 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Jondesu said: I read that WoB completely different. We know Odium splintered Honor, Dominion, and Devotion. He's saying there's one other Shard that we don't know has been splintered. Not that we don't know of the Shard. jW Different WoB altogether, asking if Autonomy could possibly be Trell. Brandon confirmed Autonomy is eligible as per his previous quote that Trell is a "known shard." Your interpretation of the WoB earlier in the thread is correct, it means none of the known shards, which probably includes Autonomy, can be the fourth one Odium shattered. edit 2: Here's the relevant WoB from Theoryland. Note it requires a bit of inference to get you to "Trell might be Autonomy," but it's clearly what both parties are implying. Quote Question Has Wax seen the influence of Shard other than Preservation, Ruin and Harmony? Brandon Sanderson Yes. He has seen the influence of another Shard. Question Might that Shard be Autonomy? Brandon Sanderson It might. Edited July 23, 2016 by Ari 2
Jondesu he/him Posted July 23, 2016 Posted July 23, 2016 1 minute ago, Ari said: Different WoB altogether, asking if Autonomy could possibly be Trell. Brandon confirmed Autonomy is eligible as per his previous quote that Trell is a "known shard." Your interpretation of the WoB earlier in the thread is correct. I'd grab you the quote, (it's quite recent) but I found it on Theoryland and they're having hosting troubles atm. Gotcha, the poster you were replying to was referencing Autonomy being the one Odium splintered, so I got mixed up. NP. jW
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