Long Game 22: Corenne al'Daishar

[Amanuensis he/him]

18 minutes ago, Metacognition said:

 

 

On the other hand, we could lynch you, you'd survive as long as you're telling the truth, and then detain Aonar to possibly stop a conversion. If there isn't a conversion, then we can pretty safely assume that Aonar is Fain and thus when redirected to Rubik, Rubik would likely be corrupted. 

In this scenario, we don't actually lose anyone, where your plan makes it so that we absolutely do lose someone now. See, this is why I don't like how insistent you are. It feels more like you know that you won't survive the lynch, so you're trying to push a plan that keeps you from being lynched to prove yourself and gets another kill. 

That is a bad plan because A: It takes away my extra life which means it'll be easier for the Corrupt to get rid of me when they're trying to overpower us, B: If Aonar isn't Padan than all the real Padan has to do is refrain from using his Corruption to mislead us further, when killing Rubiks now can guarantee it. Since when are you so paranoid about losing people, anyway? What happened to lynching being the most important way for villagers to gain information? If I'm Detained instead of Aonar and we lynch Rubiks we gain a lot more information then what you provide, as we actually learn a players alignment that also confirms another's. Lynching me will do nothing but confirm I'm not Padan, and then people will still suspect I'm a Darkfriend, whereas Detaining me just means that you guys can prove my Aiel-Bloodedness later. If I'm lying and I'm Padan I can't convert. If I'm lying and I'm a Darkfriend then I can't kill. If Rubiks is not Corrupted or a Darkfriend then you can come at me with full force next round. Either way if I'm lying, Detaining me and lynching Rubiks does no real harm to the village.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Amanuensis

[Dustbringer12 he/him]

You know, if it says that there are two recently browsing members and my name is the only one listed, does that mean that there is an admin watching, or does it always do that?

Just barely it said three viewers and Me, Jaime, and elb.  sometimes it adds one on (this is not the first time I've seen it) and others it doesn't.  does anyone know why, or should I ask the programmers?

Edited June 20, 2016 by RubiksCube

[Amanuensis he/him]

40 minutes ago, RubiksCube said:

@Amanuensis I have you as recently  viewing.  Why do you find me suspicious?

• On D1 you show up towards the end of the turn and the first thing you post is answering Sart's question about whether or not a Day 1 lynch is a good idea. Seemed weird to me because so much more important discussion had come up since them, some of which in particular involved why Sart asking that was bad and whether or not he was evil
• You voted for Sheep instead of Sart on D1 along with Bard who we know now was a Villager, and as I stated on earlier in this game I believe the Darkfriends were attempting to use him as a scapegoat (scapesheep?) to save Sart (given that it nearly worked).
• You ask Orlok why he's voting for Sart if he lacks suspicions of him. Once again, I feel you're trying to push people away from him.
• During D2 when the lynch was leaning to and from Gunshy you avoided voting for him until the absolute last minute as well, saying you were more suspicious of Nyali (who we have a decent reason to believe is village too). You keep asking what you should you do with your vote, let alone if you should vote at all (I.E, "I could probably seal Gunshy's fate or save him by voting for Elodin"). When you do vote for him you say "please don't hate me if you're a villager, gunshy" (or more like "please don't hate me for helping kill you, teammate"?).
• After that you pretty much avoid talking about anything really game relevant until Lopen finally catches your attention, and it's extremely vague / seems like you aren't willing to take any more stances on players for fear of giving yourself away anymore. Then when Seonid dies your only comment is "Wow. The Darkfriends had a Ta'veren. *shudders*". Posts like this always make me think eliminator.
• Next lynch you get involved in is Conquestor, which I suppose I can understand from a villager point of you because the other lynch candidate was yourself at the time, but knowing you're Aiel-Blooded I don't think you'd find it so important to make sure that he's lynched by pointing out other players had voted for him that were missed in another player's tally, as if you wanted to ensure a villager died for certain.

That's pretty much it. Mostly conjecture but from my perspective it makes more sense that you're the 4th Darkfriend. If it's not you then I suspect it's either Lopen, Meta or Elodin, as I believe the 4th role would be a protective one considering the village began with two Wolfsiblings.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Amanuensis

[jaimeleecee she/her]

Wow.. okay, either I was on to something or it is a convenient lie.. Im willing to risk it right now to try and get another scan in tonight and give him a chance to prove it.

@Amanuensis I'm sorry about my rant, its a rough day and I have my cranky pants on, but I was so frustrated with your insistence, I think I feel how Elodin does (or how i interpreted what Elodin meant at least), that there just isn't a good lynch target and it feels forced.

I am going to put a Mayoral vote on Meta I see no reason not to trust him, I know some have said that he may have thrown his own team member under the bus to take suspicion off himself early on but honestly I can't see him choosing the forsaken, of all people to use as a diversion why give up an extra kill for that.. and his dreamwalkerness seems to be likely at this point to.  He could be corrupted but not if hes a dreamwalker and has been untargetable each night.  

That aside, the only problem I have with detaining Aonar is that he cannot scan (to hopefully prove himself) and Fain would totally take that opportunity to skip a corruption and get you guys to think that confirms Aonar and secure one more cycle for himself, because you said it in thread.. If you had saved that for a PM conversation it would be a much better plan. 

Edited June 20, 2016 by jaimeleecee

[Master Elodin]

You know what, fine. Aman, why are you assuming that the Corrupted can only convert 4 people? Your apparently hypothetical plan seemed a little too well though-out.

[Amanuensis he/him]

1 minute ago, Master Elodin said:

You know what, fine. Aman, why are you assuming that the Corrupted can only convert 4 people? Your apparently hypothetical plan seemed a little too well though-out.

Well, I'm actually assuming Padan can only convert 3 people. And that's based off the fact that anymore than 8 eliminators in a game of 27 players is unheard of. This is a subject many people have discussed before and the general consensus is there's 4 Darkfriends and a Padan with 3 Corruptions (just like the last run of this game) or there are 5 Darkfriends and a Padan with two Corruptions.

[Dustbringer12 he/him]

58 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

• On D1 you show up towards the end of the turn and the first thing you post is answering Sart's question about whether or not a Day 1 lynch is a good idea. Seemed weird to me because so much more important discussion had come up since them, some of which in particular involved why Sart asking that was bad and whether or not he was evil
• You voted for Sheep instead of Sart on D1 along with Bard who we know now was a Villager, and as I stated on earlier in this game I believe the Darkfriends were attempting to use him as a scapegoat (scapesheep?) to save Sart (given that it nearly worked).
• You ask Orlok why he's voting for Sart if he lacks suspicions of him. Once again, I feel you're trying to push people away from him.
• During D2 when the lynch was leaning to and from Gunshy you avoided voting for him until the absolute last minute as well, saying you were more suspicious of Nyali (who we have a decent reason to believe is village too). You keep asking what you should you do with your vote, let alone if you should vote at all (I.E, "I could probably seal Gunshy's fate or save him by voting for Elodin"). When you do vote for him you say "please don't hate me if you're a villager, gunshy" (or more like "please don't hate me for helping kill you, teammate"?).
• After that you pretty much avoid talking about anything really game relevant until Lopen finally catches your attention, and it's extremely vague / seems like you aren't willing to take any more stances on players for fear of giving yourself away anymore. Then when Seonid dies your only comment is "Wow. The Darkfriends had a Ta'veren. *shudders*". Posts like this always make me think eliminator.
• Next lynch you get involved in is Conquestor, which I suppose I can understand from a villager point of you because the other lynch candidate was yourself at the time, but knowing you're Aiel-Blooded I don't think you'd find it so important to make sure that he's lynched by pointing out other players had voted for him that were missed in another player's tally, as if you wanted to ensure a villager died for certain.

That's pretty much it. Mostly conjecture but from my perspective it makes more sense that you're the 4th Darkfriend. If it's not you then I suspect it's either Lopen, Meta or Elodin, as I believe the 4th role would be a protective one considering the village began with two Wolfsiblings.

@Amanuensis, these are my comebacks, listed in order of bullet points.

1.       On D1, the first time I logged on, there were like 5-8 pages.  I had to go and read through for 25-30 minutes, and by that time, there were several more pages.  I hadn't logged on in the first 24 hours, because I was busy with family visiting that I only get to see once every year.  I thought it wasn't a big deal.  sara/sart asked me about D1 lynches in her first post, and I responded.  It was a bit late, but I still felt obligated to respond.

2.       The first time I had read through, sheep had seemed the most suspicious from his two (or so) posts.  It was partially a poke vote, but the more he posted, the more suspicious he seemed.  That stopped after a while, and I wasn't really suspicious of anyone else.  Then sara turned out to be a forsaken.  It totally proved that my first run through judgements were incredibly wrong as I really had no suspicions of sara (I still think that the reasons for voting for her were at least partially wrong, but I’m glad that she was lynched).  I went back, and realized that I was really jumping the gun being really new to this play type and style.  My suspicions of sheep went in the trash, and I looked really suspicious, as several people pointed out (including you right now).  I can’t blame you for this one.

3.       If Orlok had voted for anyone without reason, I would have asked why (or if anyone else had, for that matter).   He basically said he was just voting for her because everyone else was.  I personally would always ask someone why they are going with the flow.  That is just who I am.

4.       Uhh, at this point in the game, I thought that my vote (unless drastic changes happened) would seal his fate.  I hate to have someone upset with me.  That is also a personality thing.  I am not too outgoing in fact, I am introverted, and usually if someone hates you or holds a grudge, it can cause a scene, and other problems.  I know there are people who don’t really necessarily like me, but I hate to have someone outright hate me.

5.       For this one, as stated above, I am introverted.  I subconsciously try to avoid stuff that draws attention to me, both good and bad.  My opinion is generally not more respected, as I am new to this, and I am afraid that if I post something to outgoing that someone will see what I said and think that the people I said were suspicious to me would make me a possible darkfriend in their eyes.  It has happened on numerous occasions during this game alone.  It would also draw attention to me.  What I was trying to do was come up with really solid evidence that people I found suspicious really did look suspicious so that people didn’t grow suspicious of me based off of my suspicions.  I gave up on this last night in the game cycle, because it takes way too long, and most of the time my conclusion was either indecisive, or wrong.  At this point, I am just trying to get a better feel of the game, and I don’t really care if I die or not/ win or not.  I would like to survive my first game at least, but with everyone trying to kill me, I think I will settle with surviving as long as possible.

6.       As you stated, lynching an aiel blooded would tell us virtually nothing (except that a person is not fain or forsaken if there is only one role per person).  I was looking for info, didn’t want to die at the time, and knew it would be a waste of a lynch, unless someone tried to kill me that night (which someone did if I remember correctly that this was the last day cycle), when I would die.  If you were put in the situation (assuming you are telling the truth as an aiel blooded) would you let them lynch you (At the time I thought it was a tie because I thought it had been counted correctly)?

Personally, I think the only solid thing making you look suspicious right now is what elodin just said (while I was typing this) that you are assuming the number of corruptions fain has.  I also get the feeling that you seem to know too much (but this could just be me, or that you have connections with foretellers, or whatever they are called).

 

Edit: comebacks is really not the right word.

Edited June 20, 2016 by RubiksCube
comebacks

[Amanuensis he/him]

7 minutes ago, RubiksCube said:

 

@Amanuensis, these are my comebacks, listed in order of bullet points.

1.       On D1, the first time I logged on, there were like 5-8 pages.  I had to go and read through for 25-30 minutes, and by that time, there were several more pages.  I hadn't logged on in the first 24 hours, because I was busy with family visiting that I only get to see once every year.  I thought it wasn't a big deal.  sara/sart asked me about D1 lynches in her first post, and I responded.  It was a bit late, but I still felt obligated to respond.

2.       The first time I had read through, sheep had seemed the most suspicious from his two (or so) posts.  It was partially a poke vote, but the more he posted, the more suspicious he seemed.  That stopped after a while, and I wasn't really suspicious of anyone else.  Then sara turned out to be a forsaken.  It totally proved that my first run through judgements were incredibly wrong as I really had no suspicions of sara (I still think that the reasons for voting for her were at least partially wrong, but I’m glad that she was lynched).  I went back, and realized that I was really jumping the gun being really new to this play type and style.  My suspicions of sheep went in the trash, and I looked really suspicious, as several people pointed out (including you right now).  I can’t blame you for this one.

3.       If Orlok had voted for anyone without reason, I would have asked why (or if anyone else had, for that matter).   He basically said he was just voting for her because everyone else was.  I personally would always ask someone why they are going with the flow.  That is just who I am.

4.       Uhh, at this point in the game, I thought that my vote (unless drastic changes happened) would seal his fate.  I hate to have someone upset with me.  That is also a personality thing.  I am not too outgoing in fact, I am introverted, and usually if someone hates you or holds a grudge, it can cause a scene, and other problems.  I know there are people who don’t really necessarily like me, but I hate to have someone outright hate me.

5.       For this one, as stated above, I am introverted.  I subconsciously try to avoid stuff that draws attention to me, both good and bad.  My opinion is generally not more respected, as I am new to this, and I am afraid that if I post something to outgoing that someone will see what I said and think that the people I said were suspicious to me would make me a possible darkfriend in their eyes.  It has happened on numerous occasions during this game alone.  It would also draw attention to me.  What I was trying to do was come up with really solid evidence that people I found suspicious really did look suspicious so that people didn’t grow suspicious of me based off of my suspicions.  I gave up on this last night in the game cycle, because it takes way too long, and most of the time my conclusion was either indecisive, or wrong.  At this point, I am just trying to get a better feel of the game, and I don’t really care if I die or not/ win or not.  I would like to survive my first game at least, but with everyone trying to kill me, I think I will settle with surviving as long as possible.

6.       As you stated, lynching an aiel blooded would tell us virtually nothing (except that a person is not fain or forsaken if there is only one role per person).  I was looking for info, didn’t want to die at the time, and knew it would be a waste of a lynch, unless someone tried to kill me that night (which someone did if I remember correctly that this was the last day cycle), when I would die.  If you were put in the situation (assuming you are telling the truth as an aiel blooded) would you let them lynch you (At the time I thought it was a tie because I thought it had been counted correctly)?

Personally, I think the only solid thing making you look suspicious right now is what elodin just said (while I was typing this) that you are assuming the number of corruptions fain has.  I also get the feeling that you seem to know too much (but this could just be me, or that you have connections with foretellers, or whatever they are called).

 

Edit: comebacks is really not the right word.

Thank you for taking the time to write this response. I'm always pleased to get some genuine insight into the personality / character of a new player, which is often hard to do due to the intimidation factor of being a new participant of these games (I remember feeling overwhelmed myself when I first started. Took my fourth or fifth game to start building any confidence, and that was only after I started playing Town of Salem, too).

Anyway, I admit I am indeed assuming a lot of things. I don't really know much more than anyone else (I literally posted the table I built from my notes, which showed everyone all of the information I had, organized neatly into little boxes). I just like to think that I have played enough of these games to make some accurate predictions based off of the info that I do have, and knowing without a doubt that lynching me is a waste of time encourages me to fight to prevent us from making that mistake. I personally would rather not us not be manipulated by the Corrupted, which is exactly what I think is happening right now with all this opposition towards me and my ideas.

[Dustbringer12 he/him]

On 6/18/2016 at 0:23 PM, RubiksCube said:

I am on a device, and can't get the self quote to go away. help.  Also, aman, I definitely think that the corrupted are manipulating.  The golden question is who they are, which is where it gets complicated.  I do agree with your chart, by the way. Everything said has solid evidence backing it.

Edited June 20, 2016 by RubiksCube

[Amanuensis he/him]

@Gamma Fiend the cycle is ending in an hour and 38 minutes, right?

If so, @STINK please Thief-Take Lopen and @AliasSheep please Detain Aonar as he's the only possible Fain candidate other than Lopen and Bugsy, assuming that Mailliw is what I think he is and Stink is what he actually claims he is.

Also, just saying, but ain't it suuuper weird that Mailliw retracts his vote from Aonar right before Jaimee votes Meta for Mayor (making it so his vote would count extra and therefore ensures I get lynched, even though she's insisting she doesn't want to vote for me due to my role claim).

Edited June 20, 2016 by Amanuensis

[Master Elodin]

I will be gone for the next five hours or so. Scratch that.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Master Elodin

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

Not sure how the lynch adds up right now, but Aman is getting lynched huh? Well, can't say I agree with that. Not sure why Meta is so insistent on him over Aonar, when Hael hasn't really done anything much to prove himself all game. Aman hasn't really either I guess, but I don't see Aman as being any more suspicious as Aonar.

And as for Aonar(or Hael) knowing when Mailliw was protected, he could have tried to Corrupt him and failed. I'm not sure how you didn't think of that Meta. Plus it's not even confirmed that Mailliw was untargetable.

[Mailliw73 he/him]

Not sure when this cycle ends, and I really can't decide on a lynch target. Im not sure Meta, Aman, or Aonar is the right choice.  I'm at a loss right now. Elodin. I see no reason for him not to be evil/corrupted. 

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

The Day is over according to Gamma's rollover time and Hael's countdown timer at the beginning of this Turn. It ended about 28 minutes ago.

Edited June 20, 2016 by TheMightyLopen

[Gamma Fiend he/him]

Just a heads-up that the cycle was supposed to end ~30minutes ago..... BUT..... I was born in Cleveland, and they just won their first championship in 52 years.... so I am totally taking a #GMPartyNight on this one and extending the cycle for another 24 hours. XD

Cycle will end at 12AM EST, Tuesday the 21st.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Gamma Fiend
You saw nothing.

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

8 minutes ago, Gamma Fiend said:

Just a heads-up that the cycle was supposed to end ~30minutes ago..... BUT..... I was born in Cleveland, and they just won their first championship in 52 years.... so I am totally taking a #GMPartyNight on this one and extending the cycle for another 24 hours. XD

Cycle will end at 12AM EST, Tuesday the 21st.

But...that's correct. (Nice work Cleveland. That was impressive.)

Edited June 20, 2016 by TheMightyLopen
;)

[Mailliw73 he/him]

2 minutes ago, Gamma Fiend said:

Just a heads-up that the cycle was supposed to end ~30minutes ago..... BUT..... I was born in Cleveland, and they just won their first championship in 52 years.... so I am totally taking a #GMPartyNight on this one and extending the cycle for another 24 hours. XD

Cycle will end at 12AM EST, Wednesday the 22nd.

Ah okay. I watched bits and pieces and it was good game. Congrats!

[Dustbringer12 he/him]

1 hour ago, Gamma Fiend said:

Just a heads-up that the cycle was supposed to end ~30minutes ago..... BUT..... I was born in Cleveland, and they just won their first championship in 52 years.... so I am totally taking a #GMPartyNight on this one and extending the cycle for another 24 hours. XD

Cycle will end at 12AM EST, Tuesday the 21st.

So what you are saying is that something non-sanderson is affecting our sanderson elimination game in a not necessarily good or bad way, but that will end up being one or the other? Cool.  This should be... uh, beautiful and articulate.

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

1 hour ago, RubiksCube said:

So what you are saying is that something non-sanderson is affecting our sanderson elimination game in a not necessarily good or bad way, but that will end up being one or the other? Cool.  This should be... uh, beautiful and articulate.

Are you worried the lynch will move to your evil Corrupter Aonar because of this delay? Huh? Are you?  

So, on a more serious note, could some more players comment on the lynch? Every lynch is very important. Do you believe Aonar's claim of Viewer or do you think it's a delaying tactic? Do you think it's worth killing him to get the info that Rubik isn't a DF and Aonar isn't Fain if Aonar is telling the truth? Or do you think we should lynch Aman and test his claim of Aiel-Blooded? Or should we lynch Rubik to test Aonar's claim? Or do you think someone else more suspicious?

Sorry this is kind of last minute, but tomorrow I'm gonna be going out of town and I'll be gone for about 2 weeks I think, so I'll only be able to use mobile and may not have much time to devote to the game. This trip was supposed to be about 2 weeks ago, hence me picking a lurking character at the start of the game, but it got delayed until now. So don't expect many more long posts from me for the rest of the game!

 

[Metacognition he/him]

If Aman's claim is right, then we don't wind up losing anyone and we still have him around to help out. He's then just as vulnerable as 90% of us, which is part of why I don't buy into his idea that saving his extra life is all that important to us right now. His analysis of how close we could be (if the corrupted have turned what is likely the final Darkfriend) makes it all that more important that we have as many people that are cleared around as possible. We'll want as many active people around as possible to make sure that there's less chance to overpower the vote if the Corrupted/Darkfriends try to take it over.

As Aman pointed out, I'm not against the idea of someone dying if it gets us additional information. This gets us additional information while not losing someone who could be paramount in the coming votes. 

I could see Aonar being clever enough to create a fabricated list. I'm not discounting that possibility. But nothing Aonar/Hael has done has really raised any flags for me. Them being so open about their redirect (which hasn't really been addressed and if it's addressed by people stating that they had to be open about it as their only proof, then understand why I'll be hesitant about that) before it even came up makes me think that this whole idea of Rubiks and Aonar being linked together is a false trail.

On the other hand, Aman has been fighting tooth and nail to not be lynched even though it won't "supposedly" kill him. And then there's this:

8 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

Next lynch you get involved in is Conquestor, which I suppose I can understand from a villager point of you because the other lynch candidate was yourself at the time, but knowing you're Aiel-Blooded I don't think you'd find it so important to make sure that he's lynched by pointing out other players had voted for him that were missed in another player's tally, as if you wanted to ensure a villager died for certain.

On his reasons for suspecting Rubiks. Seems a bit contradictory to what he's espousing now that he's up for the lynch with saving his extra life, huh? Seems to me that he's doing basically the same thing here as he states that Rubiks could have been doing there. 

I'm sticking to my vote. If I'm wrong, so be it. We'll still have another chance to pull off the win with Aman still working with us. If I'm right, we stop any additional conversions and it's given us a few people to consider as possible conversion subjects. 

Edited June 20, 2016 by Metacognition

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

Meta, my thought is just that I'm pretty sure that Aman and Aonar are the only 2 possibilities for Fain at this point, and I've had a village read on Aman for pretty much the whole game, although I will admit that I wasn't happy about him only being the cover for Conq's role. Still, I have a village read on Aman and I couldn't get a good read on Hael the whole game and now Aonar claims to be a Viewer(which makes people want to keep him alive), with scans that don't prove anything, so I have more reason to suspect Aonar than I do for Aman. Well, mostly it comes down to gut I suppose, since both of them haven't really played a major role in things so far.

I guess, maybe we could lynch Aman, in case I'm wrong(which, I'll admit, happens regularly ), Sheep Detains Aonar(in case Meta is wrong and Aonar is Fain, so the detainment would stop another conversion), Stink Thief-views me(although I'm 100% cleared of being Fain, so I guess that's to clear me of having made the DF kill?) and if Aman survives the lynch, we attack Rubiks with the Wolf-Brother kill(or we could just, not attack anyone, in case one of Jaime or Joe is Corrupted and redirects the attack)? Would that work? Because if Aman survives, that means he is Aiel-Blooded(unless this game is secretly being run by Alvron and the conversion role has a passive extra life ), meaning Aonar is Fain and Rubiks is at least Corrupted(unless Joe is the Corrupted one, like I said earlier), so we'd kill Rubiks(maybe), since Aonar would be detained and so would be untargetable until the following Day. I think that plan works pretty good and is basically what Aman was asking for earlier when he realized he couldn't get the lynch off of him. So, whatever, that can work. Hopefully I'm not missing something terribly important though. :/ Aman. Aonar.

So, @AliasSheep, could you Detain Aonar please? I know that means that he won't be able to scan if he actually is a Viewer, but I think it's worth it considering the risk of another conversion if Aonar is really Fain.

@STINK, I guess you need to scan me. Maybe you'll finally believe my claim after that.

[STINK he/him]

Surely I could be smelling the people that could be either DF or Fain? 

[Bugsy he/him]

14 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

A: It takes away my extra life which means it'll be easier for the Corrupt to get rid of me when they're trying to overpower us

That's assuming they have a kill, which is by no means guaranteed. Plus, what makes you a more valuable target than anyone else who has only 1 life? We're the same in he eyes of a win con

B: If Aonar isn't Padan than all the real Padan has to do is refrain from using his Corruption to mislead us further

This remains true of your plan as well... 

I'm on mobile w 3 %, so I can't adress anything else. Be on as soon as I get more charge

Edited June 20, 2016 by Bugsy6912

[jaimeleecee she/her]

Oh boy one more day! I was expecting to see some results this morning! 

[Amanuensis he/him]

7 hours ago, Metacognition said:

 

 

 

If Aman's claim is right, then we don't wind up losing anyone and we still have him around to help out. He's then just as vulnerable as 90% of us, which is part of why I don't buy into his idea that saving his extra life is all that important to us right now. His analysis of how close we could be (if the corrupted have turned what is likely the final Darkfriend) makes it all that more important that we have as many people that are cleared around as possible. We'll want as many active people around as possible to make sure that there's less chance to overpower the vote if the Corrupted/Darkfriends try to take it over.

As Aman pointed out, I'm not against the idea of someone dying if it gets us additional information. This gets us additional information while not losing someone who could be paramount in the coming votes. 

I could see Aonar being clever enough to create a fabricated list. I'm not discounting that possibility. But nothing Aonar/Hael has done has really raised any flags for me. Them being so open about their redirect (which hasn't really been addressed and if it's addressed by people stating that they had to be open about it as their only proof, then understand why I'll be hesitant about that) before it even came up makes me think that this whole idea of Rubiks and Aonar being linked together is a false trail.

On the other hand, Aman has been fighting tooth and nail to not be lynched even though it won't "supposedly" kill him. And then there's this:

On his reasons for suspecting Rubiks. Seems a bit contradictory to what he's espousing now that he's up for the lynch with saving his extra life, huh? Seems to me that he's doing basically the same thing here as he states that Rubiks could have been doing there. 

I'm sticking to my vote. If I'm wrong, so be it. We'll still have another chance to pull off the win with Aman still working with us. If I'm right, we stop any additional conversions and it's given us a few people to consider as possible conversion subjects. 

Is it bad that I don't want to be just as vulnerable as 90% of the remaining villagers? I would rather my extra life not be wasted for something so trivial when it's pretty dang clear to me that Aonar is Padan. Honestly I find it (irritating? disappointing?) that a player who is supposed to be 100% confirmed is also leading the village the opposite direction that we need to go.

Also, I don't get how being open about a redirect makes him less suspicious. Hael is smart enough to know that if someone redirected his power they would bring it up if he didn't, which would bring attention to him which he seems to have been avoiding this whole game (why is that not a red flag for you?). Could that be because he was a Viewer trying to avoid being killed by the Darkfriends? Sure. I severely doubt it, however. Honestly I am pretty disappointed that I'm being lynched to prove I have an extra life when lynching Aonar proves Rubiks is innocent while lynching Rubiks proves Aonar is innocent. Seriously, why would I beg to be Detained if I was evil? It just makes no sense.

I wrote that down on my list of things I found suspicious because I don't know Rubiks alignment or his intent. I know my alignment and my intent, so there's no reason for me to be suspicious of myself.

7 hours ago, TheMightyLopen said:

 

 

 

Meta, my thought is just that I'm pretty sure that Aman and Aonar are the only 2 possibilities for Fain at this point, and I've had a village read on Aman for pretty much the whole game, although I will admit that I wasn't happy about him only being the cover for Conq's role. Still, I have a village read on Aman and I couldn't get a good read on Hael the whole game and now Aonar claims to be a Viewer(which makes people want to keep him alive), with scans that don't prove anything, so I have more reason to suspect Aonar than I do for Aman. Well, mostly it comes down to gut I suppose, since both of them haven't really played a major role in things so far.

I guess, maybe we could lynch Aman, in case I'm wrong(which, I'll admit, happens regularly ), Sheep Detains Aonar(in case Meta is wrong and Aonar is Fain, so the detainment would stop another conversion), Stink Thief-views me(although I'm 100% cleared of being Fain, so I guess that's to clear me of having made the DF kill?) and if Aman survives the lynch, we attack Rubiks with the Wolf-Brother kill(or we could just, not attack anyone, in case one of Jaime or Joe is Corrupted and redirects the attack)? Would that work? Because if Aman survives, that means he is Aiel-Blooded(unless this game is secretly being run by Alvron and the conversion role has a passive extra life ), meaning Aonar is Fain and Rubiks is at least Corrupted(unless Joe is the Corrupted one, like I said earlier), so we'd kill Rubiks(maybe), since Aonar would be detained and so would be untargetable until the following Day. I think that plan works pretty good and is basically what Aman was asking for earlier when he realized he couldn't get the lynch off of him. So, whatever, that can work. Hopefully I'm not missing something terribly important though. :/ Aman. Aonar.

So, @AliasSheep, could you Detain Aonar please? I know that means that he won't be able to scan if he actually is a Viewer, but I think it's worth it considering the risk of another conversion if Aonar is really Fain.

@STINK, I guess you need to scan me. Maybe you'll finally believe my claim after that.

I forgot that you're technically cleared of being Padan, so I guess there's little point in having you Thief-Taken. Humph. @STINK I guess switch to Thief-Taking Rubiks? Have we even done an accountability of every living players actions yet?

Name	Role(“claim”)	N4 Action
Sheep	Whitecloak	Detained Meta
Meta	Dreamwalker	Detained
Jaimee	Ta’veren	Redirected Bugsy to ???
Bugsy	Unknown	Unknown
Joe	Ta’veren	Redirected Aonar to Rubiks
Aonar	“Viewer”	“Scanned Rubiks”
Stink	“Thief-Taker”	Followed Bard’s Scent to Mailliw
Rubiks	Aiel-Blooded	Unknown
Aman	“Aiel-Blooded”	Unknown
Lopen	“Aiel-Blooded”	Unknown
Elodin	Dreamwalker	Unknown
Mailliw	Unknown	Unknown

If everyone is what they says they are then that means that one of Bugsy and Mailliw is the Wolfbrother and the other is Padan. Does anyone know their roles? If so, have they confirmed them? Because if they both have than Aonar is literally the only player that can possibly be Padan.

@jaimeleecee and @The Only Joe, can we get an action list from you guys every night so far, that way we can make sure every redirect has been accounted for in case one of you has been lying / having another player lie on your behalf to make you seem like a role your not?

@Bugsy6912 and @Mailliw73 I don't suppose we can get a public role claim from either of you at this point? It's pretty much narrowed down that either one of you are the Wolfbrother with everyone else's roleclaims, so I don't really see the point in secrecy, and as far as I'm aware of there has been no indication of an additional role out there other than what we've seen already.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Amanuensis