AliasSheep Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 That does make quite a bit of sense. The only thing I disagree with you about is Straw, as his behaviour is nearly always trollish and unhelpful. However, due to the analysis and reasoning above, I will also place my vote on Lopen. He's not acting abnormally, but placing suspicion is always useful. Hopefully he'll defend himself at somepoint.
STINK he/him Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 This is all very logical and such, Phil thought. Why couldn't these people let loose and have fun? Only one person had died so far, so it's barely any problem! Shut up, thought Bill. 1
little wilson she/her Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 I completely agree, Wilson, that the advantages of a day one lynch significantly outweigh the disadvantages, but that's not the point I was making. What I was saying is that it was impossible to assume that everyone else agrees with this. And the evidence from a host of previous games runs in line with this statement - there has been a marked opposition in many games played to the day one lynch. Sart, therefore, can't be seen as seeking to avoid the day one lynch through creating superfluous conversation - instead, to my mind, he sought to have the issue addressed swiftly - a prerequisite for actually having the discussion. Wilson, again, you create a strawman - a misrepresentation of the argument I put. I didn't say that we should vote for people based on their intelligence or reputation, rather that we should avoid doing so - for we gain nothing in terms of additional scrutiny, and simultaneously lose the benefit of scrutiny for another player. In my mind, at least, this advantage is worth sacrificing your additional 8 points of trust in Meta. Finally, your final point is to me, nonsensical. Yes, Gamma went with an unconventional team last time. He may well have done so again this game. But there is absolutely no reason to distrust all newer players because of his actions last game - which is the implication of your refusal to vote for a newer player. The only part that was responding to you directly was the part that quoted you. The rest was in response to people who had posted after you saying that they didn't like the idea of Meta being voted on based on his rep and would prefer a newer player getting the position. And I'm done talking about the lynch. It's been beaten to death and I'm sick of it.
jaimeleecee she/her Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 Okay, I am going to be off for a bit (well that's not entirely true I will be driving for several hours so I might be bad and check the thread here and there but I definitely won't be typing and driving...) with that being said I wanted to put some stuff out there in case I don't have a chance to later. I have been trying to come up with careful arguments for why I'm choosing who I am but it's hard... Most of what I think is just gut feelings right now. I am voting for Gladium because his troll like post, even if that's all it is, bothers me it seems weird. Also the fact that the only other person who voted for him is someone who has all the votes right now and because no one trusts him why would they follow his vote, could be an elaborate ruse... Or nothing at all, but at least Straw might try and defend himself. As for mayor I'm not voting yet, I'm still not sure who I trust enough to give that responsibility to... ----------------------------------- Here is an update so far (I think) Lynch votes: Sarah/Sart(4): Keland, Mezal, Bugsy, Lomion Lorien/Conquestor(1): Cenn Trafalgar/DeathClutch(1): Tazrim Aan-alline/phattemer(1): Eryn Douza/Twei(1): Jak Gladium/Strawman (2): Sarah, Birgitte Cenn/Seonid(2): Alain, Phil Bill Ba'Alzamon/Elodin (1): Douz Eryn/Nyali (1): Lorien Llewella/AliasSheep (1): Ruon M'Hael/Haelbarde (1): Amaiya Jak/Lopen (2): Ba'Alzamon, Llewella Mayor votes: Mezal/Meta(3): Mezal, Keland, Lorien Jak/Lopen(3): Jak, Sarah, Phil Lomion/Elbereth(3): Amaiya, Gladium, Ruon Tazrim/Hellscythe(1): Tazrim Amaiya/Maillliw (1): Lomion Eryn/Nyali (1): M'Hael 1
Master Elodin Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 The only part that was responding to you directly was the part that quoted you. The rest was in response to people who had posted after you saying that they didn't like the idea of Meta being voted on based on his rep and would prefer a newer player getting the position. And I'm done talking about the lynch. It's been beaten to death and I'm sick of it. You're done talking about the lynch? The lynch is the biggest public decision of the day, so I don't think you can really be "done talking about the lynch" unless you want to be "done being helpful".
little wilson she/her Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 You're done talking about the lynch? The lynch is the biggest public decision of the day, so I don't think you can really be "done talking about the lynch" unless you want to be "done being helpful". Have you been reading the thread? Half of the discussion so far has been focused on the stupid meta discussion about the lynch and not the lynch itself. When I say "I'm done talking about the lynch," I'm referring to the pointless discussion about if a lynch should happen or if people should've known that it should happen before the game started. Refer to Orlok's first paragraph of the post I quoted.
STINK he/him Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 Current thoughts based on what I'm thinking: Tentative trust on Elodin. Wilson is fed up, tentative trust. Jaime is considering loads of options, both good and bad so dunno. STINK is being unhelpful. Orlok seems to care more about people properly arguing instead of the lynch. Distrust Sheep. Therefore looking at the posts on this page, Sheep.
Master Elodin Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 Have you been reading the thread? Half of the discussion so far has been focused on the stupid meta discussion about the lynch and not the lynch itself. When I say "I'm done talking about the lynch," I'm referring to the pointless discussion about if a lynch should happen or if people should've known that it should happen before the game started. Refer to Orlok's first paragraph of the post I quoted. Of course I've been reading the thread. My point still stands. If you want to stop this discussion, then say something relevant instead of just giving up on convincing people that there should be a lynch. If you feel that debating the point is useless then you can stop, but then your opinion won't matter to anyone.
AliasSheep Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 Current thoughts based on what I'm thinking: Tentative trust on Elodin. Wilson is fed up, tentative trust. Jaime is considering loads of options, both good and bad so dunno. STINK is being unhelpful. Orlok seems to care more about people properly arguing instead of the lynch. Distrust Sheep. Therefore looking at the posts on this page, Sheep. Dare I ask why?
Orlok Tsubodai Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 Have you been reading the thread? Half of the discussion so far has been focused on the stupid meta discussion about the lynch and not the lynch itself. When I say "I'm done talking about the lynch," I'm referring to the pointless discussion about if a lynch should happen or if people should've known that it should happen before the game started. Refer to Orlok's first paragraph of the post I quoted. Whilst the discussion of the meta may not be, to you, normally helpful, I disagree strongly that it's not helpful this game - Sart's lynch is predicated on whether or not we believe his initial comments to have been productive or merely designed to divert attention from more useful conversation. Having this discussion allows us to determine whether or not it was productive. Hence, dismissing it out of hand is attempting to shut down lynch discussion.
STINK he/him Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 Dare I ask why? Your whole post at the top of this page was to me saying 'I distrust X and Y and A and B' with no 'I trust C', something that I personally consider to be something that Villagers usually prioritize, and even if someone doesn't try to trust someone, that is just boring. It's kinda meta, but at the same time this is C1. Everything is basically meta. It's only not meta if someone says something very specific to this game. This is me being meta about being meta, right?
Master Elodin Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 Your whole post at the top of this page was to me saying 'I distrust X and Y and A and B' with no 'I trust C', something that I personally consider to be something that Villagers usually prioritize, and even if someone doesn't try to trust someone, that is just boring. It's kinda meta, but at the same time this is C1. Everything is basically meta. It's only not meta if someone says something very specific to this game. This is me being meta about being meta, right? With this view, why do you trust Wilson?
STINK he/him Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 Because she's getting annoyed in the thread and not in a possible doc with elim friends. Trust is tentative, mind 1
Elbereth she/her Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 Eh. The way I see it, my votes could really influence the result if I picked one of 3 candidates. I don't trust you, as such, but I distrust the other 2 more. Once I have more solid leads next turn (hopefully), I'll pick someone for stronger reasons than that.I don't quite agree with that. At the time you posted, there were something like 20 hours left in the day. That's plenty of time to change things. If your arguments were good enough, you could probably ensure that none of those three options are elected. But, okay, at least I see where you're coming from. (Which is more than I do with Straw...)StrawMan is of course, immediately suspicious by how he posts supporting El for Mayor with no supporting evidence. Which leads onto El's seemingly rather flustered attempt at avoiding being made Mayor. Given how she's spoken about the Mayor role putting spotlight on the player who gets it, I can see why she'd want to avoid it - if she was an eliminator. Of course, she makes reasonable points about her not being good with vote manip roles, but as she stated herself, those are different kinds of roles. I... Well. Hmm. I have kind of been trying to avoid it, haven't I? I can't really refute that accusation. Because... because I don't think I'll use it most efficiently and I don't really view myself as the best person for that role. I can see how that would be suspicious, though, because I am avoiding the spotlight. And maybe partly because if I'm Mayor, that's fairly useless to me in that I can't deduce alignment from that nearly as much because I already know my own alignment. And also because I'm okay with the other lynch candidates getting it, though I'd prefer Lopen slightly over Meta? In which case I should probably vote for him... And it's not like my vote is doing much good where it is. So, if I want to stick to one of the current candidates, I could vote for Lopen or myself. Back to that in a moment. What could I do that wouldn't be suspicious, though? Should I just accept that these votes are my rightful due and vote myself Mayor without comment? Should I lynch vote for one of the people Mayor-voting me because I'm paranoid they're Darkfriends? Should I initially be hesitant (as I have been) and then turn around and vote for myself? Like that's any better. Point is, there's literally nothing I could do that wouldn't be at least somewhat suspicious. Because the circumstances around my being Mayor are storming suspicious. Anyway, that said. Who do I want to vote for? Not Meta, because I'm far too paranoid about him to do that and as others have said his voice has enough power already without a second vote. Lopen... I don't know. I can read him exactly as much as he can read me: not at all. Right now I'm leaning slightly village on him, but I'm sure that'll change. So... I dislike doing it, but I believe I will vote for Lomion. When it comes down to it, I trust myself to use the power (even if it's not used particularly well) more than I want to see the other two candidates with it. And hey, maybe this'll push me out of my comfort zone! That's not a bad thing. Okay. I'll put this out here now, so people can maybe respond before I have to go. I'll try to say my piece about roleclaiming and my thoughts on players, but I can't promise I'll finish. We'll see how it goes.
Haelbarde he/him Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 Hael, while you did post already, I'm wondering if you've got any reads yet? Specifically, I'm wondering what you're thinking about each of Sart, Wilson and Meta. As far as reads are concerned, I'm wary of Elbereth as I recently discovered the hard way that I'm not good at detecting evil!El. But I've not had any reason to distrust her yet, so she'd be at 50 (on the 1-100 scale with 1 being definitely evil). Mail I said I was leaning village. Wilson feels... different, I think. It's possibly due to the fact I've not played with her for a little while, and I think it also relates to the discussion of the D1 lynch. I can understand being a bit annoyed about the discussion getting revived continually. I need to think a bit more, and reread her posts a bit more, before I can decide if there's anything worth pursuing. Sart, more research required. He's someone I think of as "experienced" but I think that's more because he started playing before I did. I want to go back over his previous games and compare them to his posts. Meta hasn't really stood out to me. I'd place him somewhere between Mail and Wilson on my list at the moment. Sorry that it's all a bit vague - I need sleep. If I calculated it right, I should be on ~ an hour before rollover. I'll try and get another post in then.
Master Elodin Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 (edited) What do you think about Wilson, El? EDIT: As has been mentioned to me previously, a tunnel is where a player has a suspicion about someone and they are not being logical about said suspicion. That is not me. Furthermore, I haven't been contradicted by any other players, in fact some agree with me. This is not a tunnel, Wilson. It's analysis. Edited June 4, 2016 by Master Elodin
AliasSheep Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 (edited) What do you think about Wilson, El? Elodin, your tunnel is obvious. If you hadn't noticed, Elodin... Your whole post at the top of this page was to me saying 'I distrust X and Y and A and B' with no 'I trust C', something that I personally consider to be something that Villagers usually prioritize, and even if someone doesn't try to trust someone, that is just boring. It's kinda meta, but at the same time this is C1. Everything is basically meta. It's only not meta if someone says something very specific to this game. This is me being meta about being meta, right? Thing is, I don't trust anyone. Maybe some slight village reads on Hael and Elodin, but they're almost entirely gut, and so I don't view them as particularly valuable, and certainly not enough to say I outright trust them. EDIT: Elodin, you're focusing all your questions to people about Wilson and not really providing much reasoning for why you're suspicious. That sounds tunnel-like to me. Edited June 4, 2016 by AliasSheep
Master Elodin Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 I'm suspicious because it seems to me that she's trying to stop being helpful. Anyways, l'll talk about something else if I must. What do you all think about night kills?
STINK he/him Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 Thing is, I don't trust anyone. Maybe some slight village reads on Hael and Elodin, but they're almost entirely gut, and so I don't view them as particularly valuable, and certainly not enough to say I outright trust them. Yeah but knowing who people say they trust is much better than knowing who people distrust IMO. I mean, everyone can distrust someone doing something extremely suspicious but for something slightly suspicious there can be a divide, and there is rarely a time where everyone trusts one person without the use of a role or anything. That's why I said who I trusted. Just gotta look for things that look Villagey, it's not that hard
Haelbarde he/him Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 Thing is, I don't trust anyone. Maybe some slight village reads on Hael and Elodin, but they're almost entirely gut, and so I don't view them as particularly valuable, and certainly not enough to say I outright trust them. I'm sure you remember how that worked for you in the last QF...
STINK he/him Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 I'm suspicious because it seems to me that she's trying to stop being helpful. Anyways, l'll talk about something else if I must. What do you all think about night kills? I'm thinking we stop the meta conversation and talk about killing someone during the day right now. We can save that fun meta conversation for the night.
AliasSheep Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 I'm sure you remember how that worked for you in the last QF... As if I'd forget.
Master Elodin Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 I'm thinking we stop the meta conversation and talk about killing someone during the day right now. We can save that fun meta conversation for the night. Killing who? Who do you want to kill besides everyone?
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