Civil war reactions thread (Spoilers)

[Left he/him]

So I thought the movie was okay. I had some problems with cinematography and plot holes and the pride of both teams. Black Panther tho.... Aside from maybe Green Arrow, I think I have the most respect for him out of all the super heroes of late. He's really amazing....just wow.

So I could rip into parts, and praise others, but don't really feel like it.

The theater I saw it in was FREEZING. So I took off my jacket, and used it as a blanket and snuggled in with my date. So thaaaat might just have been the highlight of the movie for me

[Mistrunner]

I just saw it and was again reminded of what a storming awesome job Marvel has been doing with their movies.

Please note that this was written at well past 11:00 p.m. and probably shouldn't be taken very seriously.

I don't quite get people complaining about the uselessness of all the fighting in the movie, though- wasn't that the point? If they'd kept their heads and not ripped into each other things might've worked out, and a lot of people would be a lot happier. But they didn't, and people got hurt.

I loved the parallel to the first Captain America movie in the Stark/Cap fight scene. That whole scene blew me away. It was just so... brutal. Usually we see heroes fighting villains and we know what side we're on. Well, in that scene I was solidly on Cap's side- Stark lost it, and yes, his parents died, but no, it was not Bucky's fault- but I could sympathize with Stark and his point of view. I could see it from both sides. They both went overboard and both made mistakes. And gosh darn it, both were bleeding feels.

My biggest complaint is that I want more Black Widow and Hawkeye. Those two need a movie or seven.

And, of course:

"Can you move your seat up?"

"No."

Conclusion: A+ moral ambiguity, would ponder again.

[Delightful]

"This is your last chance Cap, stay down"

"I could do this all day"

ALL THE FEELS.

Hawkeye I'm a little more meh about, Black Widow definitely needs her own movie or three.

If they'd done Hawkeye like the comic and had his wife be Bobbi, that would have been far more fascinating. (I haven't read the comics but I have a friend who has). Either way he's cool and could easily have his own movie. Falcon too.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Delightful

[ParadoxicalZen he/him]

Falcon I could see taking the reins/mantle/shield of Cap'n like the comics.

[Delightful]

Falcon I could see taking the reins/mantle/shield of Cap'n like the comics.

definitely.

[Tetriona she/her]

"I've got a package here for a... Tony Stank!"

 

LOL

[DSC01 he/him]

"This is your last chance Cap, stay down"

"I could do this all day"

ALL THE FEELS.

Hawkeye I'm a little more meh about, Black Widow definitely needs her own movie or three.

If they'd done Hawkeye like the comic and had his wife be Bobbi, that would have been far more fascinating. (I haven't read the comics but I have a friend who has). Either way he's cool and could easily have his own movie. Falcon too.

 

The "I could do this all day" line is also in the first Captain America movie. When he's still a skinny kid in Brooklyn, and he gets in a fight with that guy in the alley behind the movie theater, he staggers to his feet after getting pretty thoroughly pummeled and says that. It's really a very well-executed trilogy, which is pretty amazing, considering how much the third film is tied to other MCU entries.

 

I mean, it's a sequel to not only The Winter Soldier, but also Iron Man 3 and Age of Ultron (with some ties to Ant-Man), and it sets up Spider-Man: Homecoming and Black Panther. It is no small feat for it to fulfill all of those roles well and be an effective final chapter in a trilogy. It's pretty impressive.

[Khyrindor he/him]

First off, Iron Man has been my favourite superhero for a while; his movies are my favourite and I loved his character growth. That said, I was undecided what team I was on for Civil War when I started watching. Tony's guilt at the beginning over the death of that boy kinda wrecked me for a while. I always want to say "It's not the Superhero's fault that people die! They are trying to stop the bad guy from doing worse!" But Sokovia really was Tony's fault...

 

Because of that, I was in favour of the Accords, and Tony's little speech was good. I felt like Cap was being a bit selfish for believing in Bucky...until he turned out to be right. Then I was all "YOU GUYS STAHP. STOP FIGHTING AND TALK ABOUT IT." IMO, Cap was right for defending Bucky, as it was a conspiracy. At the end, when Tony was going to MURDER Bucky, that's when I decided on team Cap. Like, come on! You know it was mind control Tony, the bad guy is right there! That, and the fact that Tony brought in a highschool kid to Germany and risked his life just for extra manpower (Much as I loved this spiderman in the film).

 

Loved Black Panther, and totally thought that he would turn out to be Sharon (Haven't done the comics, sorry) and was pleasantly surprised. 

 

Okay, the airport scene. Did anyone get the feeling that Vision was seriously turned down for this? He probably could have laid waste to everyone there for one thing. Same with Scarlet Witch for that matter. Giant Antman was epic. Spidey was hilarious. Hawkeye and Nat made me feel. It was probably one of my favourites. Still mad at Tony for endangering a kid way out of his league though. And mad them all for not talking it out  instead of wrecking the airport and bringing a big red arrow to Tony's point with the Accords.

 

I dunno, I can't decide. I'm in favour of the Accords, but not Iron Man as a person. I loved the movie, but it's probably not my favourite Marvel movie. That probably goes to Avengers 1.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Khyrindor

[Orlion Blight he/him]

Yeah, my main complaint is that it seems that the Vision was floating around doing nothing until it was his turn to zap War Machine. They could have shown him and Scarlet Witch kinda occupy each other for a while, effectively removing them both out of combat for a bit.

[DSC01 he/him]

First off, Iron Man has been my favourite superhero for a while; his movies are my favourite and I loved his character growth. That said, I was undecided what team I was on for Civil War when I started watching. Tony's guilt at the beginning over the death of that boy kinda wrecked me for a while. I always want to say "It's not the Superhero's fault that people die! They are trying to stop the bad guy from doing worse!" But Sokovia really was Tony's fault...

 

Because of that, I was in favour of the Accords, and Tony's little speech was good. I felt like Cap was being a bit selfish for believing in Bucky...until he turned out to be right. Then I was all "YOU GUYS STAHP. STOP FIGHTING AND TALK ABOUT IT." IMO, Cap was right for defending Bucky, as it was a conspiracy. At the end, when Tony was going to MURDER Bucky, that's when I decided on team Cap. Like, come on! You know it was mind control Tony, the bad guy is right there! That, and the fact that Tony brought in a highschool kid to Germany and risked his life just for extra manpower (Much as I loved this spiderman in the film).

 

Loved Black Panther, and totally thought that he would turn out to be Sharon (Haven't done the comics, sorry) and was pleasantly surprised. 

 

Okay, the airport scene. Did anyone get the feeling that Vision was seriously turned down for this? He probably could have laid waste to everyone there for one thing. Same with Scarlet Witch for that matter. Giant Antman was epic. Spidey was hilarious. Hawkeye and Nat made me feel. It was probably one of my favourites. Still mad at Tony for endangering a kid way out of his league though. And mad them all for not talking it out  instead of wrecking the airport and bringing a big red arrow to Tony's point with the Accords.

 

I dunno, I can't decide. I'm in favour of the Accords, but not Iron Man as a person. I loved the movie, but it's probably not my favourite Marvel movie. That probably goes to Avengers 1.

 

The thing is, the Accords weren't even written to avoid an issue like Ultron. Sokovia is Tony's fault, but if you consider the incident separately from the creation of Ultron--and, remember, the Sokovia Accords are directly in reaction to the collateral damage caused by the operation in Sokovia involving all of the Avengers, not Tony creating Ultron--then it's really not. It doesn't seem like people are even aware that Ultron was created by Iron man (a good thing to keep on the down-low, if they want to avoid a whoooooole lot of negative PR).

 

Think about how all of the situations in the MCU would have been different if the Sokovia Accords had already been in place: The Battle of New York would have ended with NYC getting nuked. The fiasco from The Winter Soldier, with helicarriers crashing in Washington DC, would have been waaaaaaaaaaay worse if Cap had needed to wait for approval before trying to stop Hydra from murdering millions of people. Of course, those major tragedies (together, surpassing anything that has ever happened in recorded history) would be as nothing compared to the complete extinction of the human race perpetrated by Ultron, while an international body debated about how and when to deploy the Avengers. Even Lagos, an operation that probably could have been handled by a group like SHIELD, would have gone a lot worse if Crossbone's suicide bomb went off in the market instead of in the air. 

[Khyrindor he/him]

 

The thing is, the Accords weren't even written to avoid an issue like Ultron. Sokovia is Tony's fault, but if you consider the incident separately from the creation of Ultron--and, remember, the Sokovia Accords are directly in reaction to the collateral damage caused by the operation in Sokovia involving all of the Avengers, not Tony creating Ultron--then it's really not. It doesn't seem like people are even aware that Ultron was created by Iron man (a good thing to keep on the down-low, if they want to avoid a whoooooole lot of negative PR).

 

Think about how all of the situations in the MCU would have been different if the Sokovia Accords had already been in place: The Battle of New York would have ended with NYC getting nuked. The fiasco from The Winter Soldier, with helicarriers crashing in Washington DC, would have been waaaaaaaaaaay worse if Cap had needed to wait for approval before trying to stop Hydra from murdering millions of people. Of course, those major tragedies (together, surpassing anything that has ever happened in recorded history) would be as nothing compared to the complete extinction of the human race perpetrated by Ultron, while an international body debated about how and when to deploy the Avengers. Even Lagos, an operation that probably could have been handled by a group like SHIELD, would have gone a lot worse if Crossbone's suicide bomb went off in the market instead of in the air. 

 

That's what I'm saying! Do they not realize that the world would be devastated if it weren't for them?! They didn't cause all the damage, they prevented it. Why blame them from missing out on stopping a bit rather than thanking them for stopping the worst.

[ThirdGen]

I went into it expecting to be Team Cap, but... both sides are terrible.

 

The Avengers should have some sort of oversight - that's what SHIELD was for.  The movies make out like SHIELD was completely disbanded, but Agents of SHIELD is ongoing, isn't it?  The agency still exists in some capacity.

 

The precise oversight the Sokovia Accords suggest is the worst kind of slow-moving bureaucracy to manage an emergency response team.

 

And yet, the Avengers being an absolute law unto themselves is obviously despotic and makes any kind of law they come into contact with pointless.  When Hawkeye complains that "criminals" didn't used to mean him, it just means he's lost that special go-anywhere, destroy-anything privilege he had. 

 

Of the 13 MCU movies so far (granted, the events of Guardians are not known to those on Earth), 7 have plots where the Avengers or allied "good guys" either created the villain or their actions enabled the villain's plot to be enacted(4 Tony, 1 Black Widow, 1 SHIELD, 1 US military).  There should be some supervision.

[Khyrindor he/him]

I went into it expecting to be Team Cap, but... both sides are terrible.

 

The Avengers should have some sort of oversight - that's what SHIELD was for.  The movies make out like SHIELD was completely disbanded, but Agents of SHIELD is ongoing, isn't it?  The agency still exists in some capacity.

 

The precise oversight the Sokovia Accords suggest is the worst kind of slow-moving bureaucracy to manage an emergency response team.

 

And yet, the Avengers being an absolute law unto themselves is obviously despotic and makes any kind of law they come into contact with pointless.  When Hawkeye complains that "criminals" didn't used to mean him, it just means he's lost that special go-anywhere, destroy-anything privilege he had. 

 

Of the 13 MCU movies so far (granted, the events of Guardians are not known to those on Earth), 7 have plots where the Avengers or allied "good guys" either created the villain or their actions enabled the villain's plot to be enacted(4 Tony, 1 Black Widow, 1 SHIELD, 1 US military).  There should be some supervision.

 

Definitely. The Accords are a good idea, but from the wrong people. We need SHIELD back as an organization, of have someone responsible enough to keep the team accountable. 

[The Invested Beard]

So I really enjoyed this movie. All characterizations were phenomenal especially Black Panther and Spiderman. That was the best Spiderman on screen ever. Period.

 

I do however have a couple nit-picks:

 

Once again, the MCU has underwhelmed me in the villain department. I know Zemo was different than most of the MCU villains, but I just feel like a lot of his character was wasted/forgettable. I don't know why, but Marvel can't seem to get villains right and I'm really hoping they can fix this with Thanos. Who knows.

 

Also, WHY THE GIGANTIC ALL CAPS PLACE NAMES??? We get it, this is happening in a different country.

 

Lastly did I miss the passing of the law that all fugitives and people in hiding MUST wear an unlarked baseball cap and a hooded jacket? I mean seriously by the time they showed Bucky I just couldn't take it seriously it pulled me out of the movie a bit.

 

 

Overall, I'd give it an 8 or so.

[Delightful]

Definitely. The Accords are a good idea, but from the wrong people. We need SHIELD back as an organization, of have someone responsible enough to keep the team accountable.

but SHIELD is HYDRA and any other body gets you into beaurocracy and personal agendas and might not be any better.

In AoS, the official body is the ATCU and managing Avengers wouldn't really be their jurisdiction. Besides, Widow is Russian, Wanda is Sokovian, Panther is Wakandan and Vision doesn't have a nationality (???). So a US Agency doesn't automatically have authority over them. And Panther is also a leader of a country in his own right, probably has diplomatic immunity and such, and can't exactly be under anyone else's oversight.

Also- the airport fight was in Germany? I totally missed that detail.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Delightful

[Jondesu he/him]

So I really enjoyed this movie. All characterizations were phenomenal especially Black Panther and Spiderman. That was the best Spiderman on screen ever. Period.

I do however have a couple nit-picks:

Once again, the MCU has underwhelmed me in the villain department. I know Zemo was different than most of the MCU villains, but I just feel like a lot of his character was wasted/forgettable. I don't know why, but Marvel can't seem to get villains right and I'm really hoping they can fix this with Thanos. Who knows.

I'm sure we haven't seen the last of Baron Zemo. They made a point of keeping him alive and showing him uncowed by incarceration. I would bet he'll pop up again sooner than later.

jW

[Quiver he/him]

but SHIELD is HYDRA and any other body gets you into beaurocracy and personal agendas and might not be any better.

In AoS, the official body is the ATCU and managing Avengers wouldn't really be their jurisdiction. Besides, Widow is Russian, Wanda is Sokovian, Panther is Wakandan and Vision doesn't have a nationality (???). So a US Agency doesn't automatically have authority over them. And Panther is also a leader of a country in his own right, probably has diplomatic immunity and such, and can't exactly be under anyone else's oversight.

Also- the airport fight was in Germany? I totally missed that detail.

 

Ya know, this was part of my problem with SHIELD in the MCU.  I could never tell if it was meant to be an American organisation, or United Nations one; it's been both in the comics, but the films seem to flip on whether or not it was exclusively a US club or not...

[Delightful]

Ya know, this was part of my problem with SHIELD in the MCU. I could never tell if it was meant to be an American organisation, or United Nations one; it's been both in the comics, but the films seem to flip on whether or not it was exclusively a US club or not...

I thought the security council thing* was multi-national, just because it was so Super Important and Authoritative but not obviously government. I don't think it's explicitly said anywhere though.

*of which Alexander Pierce was secretary in Winter Soldier.

[Quiver he/him]

I thought the security council thing* was multi-national, just because it was so Super Important and Authoritative but not obviously government. I don't think it's explicitly said anywhere though.

*of which Alexander Pierce was secretary in Winter Soldier.

 

There was a conversation in another thread about people of colour and fiction, and I think this sort of falls under the same category; considering these are American films, featuring American heroes, with a largely American cast, and with virtually the entirety of SHIELD's speaking characters (Fury, Coulson, Hill) featuring Amercian accents at the least...

 

Well, there's a reason why one might default to "SHIELD is an American organisation".

 

(And yes, Natasha is Russian... but then, she doesn't actually have a Russian accent, and she's a defector anyway. So she still fits into the tropes of US Spy fiction) 

[Delightful]

It's an easy default true; that doesn't mean it's correct. I'd have to go back and watch the scenes with the security council and see what accents they have.

Could you link me to the discussion on people of colour?

[Orlion Blight he/him]

It's an easy default true; that doesn't mean it's correct. I'd have to go back and watch the scenes with the security council and see what accents they have.

Could you link me to the discussion on people of colour?

You were there, Delightful, it's what is currently going on in the Pet Peeves thread! Edited May 11, 2016 by Orlion Determined

[Delightful]

Waaiiitt so what exactly were you referencing and what's its relevance to the Americanness of SHIELD? I'm lost.

[Sunbird she/her]

So I finally saw Civil War tonight and I just wanna say that I loooove awkward teenage Spider-Man. <3

[Delightful]

So I finally saw Civil War tonight and I just wanna say that I loooove awkward teenage Spider-Man. <3

"You have a metal arm? That's so cool!"

[azninvasion99 he/him]

Black Panther was just perfect for me. One of my favorite Marvel characters and their portrayal did not disappoint. His last line to Zemo, "the living are not done with you yet" was fantastic. Spider-Man was good, I'm definitely looking forward to his movie.

My biggest gripe was that I felt that the movie ended too cleanly. Yeah, the Avengers are "split" but I was really expecting some longer lasting reprecussions besides Captain and his team doing their own thing. But we will see how it goes on that route.