Random Stuff VIII: The Admin Special

[Jo and the Bush all/any]

Oh my god. I just looked at the tags.

I've always loved unique Tags. But then Kobold broke the Extra one by showing up:  e@x%&tra **t(a}g

 

In other news, this happened at my High School, and authorities finally released the name of the student. I knew him. There is nothing scarier than realizing that someone you know is capable of something like that.

[Voidus]

They do know I read Sanderson, and both parents read and enjoyed the first two Reckoners books. I haven't suggested they read anything Cosmere, because I know my mom would take issue with Sazed's acceptance of all religions as valid. (Don't even get me started on what she'd say about the end of the third book.) And they did disapprove of The Lion King, but since they didn't preview it before they bought it for my brother and I one Christmas, they were stuck with it.

 

I almost don't want to explain why they so limited my entertainment choices, because I neither agree with nor endorse their views, but since you guys asked, I will. 

 

When I was growing up, my parents were fond of the brownie analogy. For those unfamiliar, what you do is you make a batch of brownies, let everyone take a piece, and then while they're eating it, you say "They're so chewy because I mixed a little dog poop in there." Then you use your audience's disgust as a segue to talk about how just like a tiny bit of dog poop ruins a good batch of brownies, a tiny bit of immoral content can ruin a good piece of entertainment. 

 

To be fair, I don't think my parents ever actually made my siblings and I think we were eating dog poop brownies. But they let us read illustration after illustration of the analogy, so we got the point: A little bit of bad ruins something good. If a piece of entertainment has the smallest bit of objectionable content, then all of the good and beauty is moot. If there's a little bit of bad, the good may as well not exist. It's ruined. Spoiled. No better than dog poop brownies. 

 

It was this view that made them feel not only justified, but moral, in banning movies like Mulan, books like Harry Potter and His Dark Materials, any music that wasn't from a Christian label. Mulan worships her ancestors, so none of her courage or self-sacrifice are worth mentioning. Harry Potter attends a school of witchcraft, so the fact he ends the seventh book as a literary Christ figure is beside the point. Pullman's series is all about a quest to depose a corrupt God figure, so if he makes a good point about corruption in the church, it's worthless. Secular artists don't put at least one worship song on their albums, so their music is evil. 

 

I remember when I was sixteen and had just been caught listening to secular music. I brought up Simple Plan's "Crazy," told my dad that it denounced things like the media holding women to impossible standards and parents not spending enough time with their kids, even though it used the d-word. "Would you listen to it with your sister because of that word?" I said no (my sister being eleven at the time). "Well, if you couldn't listen to it with your sister, why are you listening to it?" 

 

It seemed reasonable back then, but not reasonable enough to make me give up my secular music. And as I've gotten older, I've realized how wrong he was. There are some pieces of entertainment that you can't enjoy with a child by your side, because they're meant for the enjoyment and edification of adults. Would I take an eleven-year-old to see Deadpool? Storms, no. But that doesn't mean it isn't worth watching. It doesn't mean that there's nothing good in that movie. It just means that it takes an adult to sort the good from the bad, and to accept the good with the bad. The same holds true for other things my parents denounced: Mulan's sense of honor and loyalty exist not in spite of her ancestor worship, but in many ways as a result of it. The good in that movie should be commended, and it's a great mistake to dismiss it out of hand because Mulan's religious beliefs don't resemble Christianity. 

If you don't watch anything with objectionable content then you can't really watch much of anything. Pretty much every movie will have lying, stealing or violence in there somewhere, you can't just ignore things you don't like forever.

Your parents confuse me.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

That's ridiculous. The Bible has plenty of bad stuff in it that God doesn't technically approve of, but it happened and He allowed it to be preserved because it's part of the big picture of redemption. If you believe the whole thing that is. I think it's intellectually dishonest to put blinders on.

 

For what it's worth, this is coming from a former drug addict with a pretty dark past.

 

I'm in complete agreement there. And the strangest part? My mom preaches on those passages. She'll research the historical context and wind up proving that those "bad" stories were actually worse than we think they are, and she won't pull any punches when she enlightens her audience. And she'll use those stories to illustrate her points. But when it comes to the story of a boy wizard fighting magical Hitler, she shuts down and won't accept a single argument in Harry's favor. And no, she hasn't read the books. Why do you ask?  

 

I've always loved unique Tags. But then Kobold broke the Extra one by showing up:  e@x%&tra **t(a}g

 

In other news, this happened at my High School, and authorities finally released the name of the student. I knew him. There is nothing scarier than realizing that someone you know is capable of something like that.

 

Oh my gosh, that's awful. I know what it's like, having someone you know be behind something terrible—it happened when I was in high school. Different situation, same thing. 

 

If you don't watch anything with objectionable content then you can't really watch much of anything. Pretty much every movie will have lying, stealing or violence in there somewhere, you can't just ignore things you don't like forever.

Your parents confuse me.

 

They confuse me too. And although they've gotten more lenient in recent years, that doesn't mean they don't have their ways of voicing their objections to content they disapprove of. I cannot tell you how many times I've been enjoying an onscreen romance, and when it's implied they slept together, one or both of my parents will say, "They should really be married." They've done that for as long as I can remember. I'm 26 and they still do it—mostly for the benefit of my younger siblings, but still. 

[The Invested Beard]

I'm in complete agreement there. And the strangest part? My mom preaches on those passages. She'll research the historical context and wind up proving that those "bad" stories were actually worse than we think they are, and she won't pull any punches when she enlightens her audience. And she'll use those stories to illustrate her points. But when it comes to the story of a boy wizard fighting magical Hitler, she shuts down and won't accept a single argument in Harry's favor. And no, she hasn't read the books. Why do you ask?

 

 

Oh my gosh, that's awful. I know what it's like, having someone you know be behind something terrible—it happened when I was in high school. Different situation, same thing. 

 

 

They confuse me too. And although they've gotten more lenient in recent years, that doesn't mean they don't have their ways of voicing their objections to content they disapprove of. I cannot tell you how many times I've been enjoying an onscreen romance, and when it's implied they slept together, one or both of my parents will say, "They should really be married." They've done that for as long as I can remember. I'm 26 and they still do it—mostly for the benefit of my younger siblings, but still. 

 

I'd be interested to hear their thoughts on C.S. Lewis. He's one of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and his stories had a lot of the stuff your parents would be upset about from other sources.

[Jo and the Bush all/any]

I'm in complete agreement there. And the strangest part? My mom preaches on those passages. She'll research the historical context and wind up proving that those "bad" stories were actually worse than we think they are, and she won't pull any punches when she enlightens her audience. And she'll use those stories to illustrate her points. But when it comes to the story of a boy wizard fighting magical Hitler, she shuts down and won't accept a single argument in Harry's favor. And no, she hasn't read the books. Why do you ask?

Which book did she stop on?

 

I'd be interested to hear their thoughts on C.S. Lewis. He's one of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and his stories had a lot of the stuff your parents would be upset about from other sources.

I didn't actually catch any of the allusions he used in his books until my third readthrough of Narnia.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

Which book did she stop on?

 

I didn't actually catch any of the allusions he used in his books until my third readthrough of Narnia.

 

Book 1. She's never even picked them up, but that didn't stop her from presenting "There is no good or evil; there is only power, and those too weak to seek it" as the theme of the whole book.  

 

I'd be interested to hear their thoughts on C.S. Lewis. He's one of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and his stories had a lot of the stuff your parents would be upset about from other sources.

 

My mom isn't a big fan of fantasy. Actually, that's putting it mildly—she spent most of my life so averse to fantasy that I was barely even allowed to read or watch anything from that genre unless it was Christian or explicitly educational. So Magic School Bus was allowed, although she didn't let the occasional assertion or implication that evolution is true go unchallenged. When I said I wanted to write fantasy, she tried to talk me out of it. 

 

So far as C.S. Lewis goes, I don't think my mom ever actually read the Narnia books, and I'd be surprised if she read Till We Have Faces, because fantasy isn't her genre. This, I think, is the main reason why I was allowed to read the Narnia books, because she would not approve of the way Lewis handled Emeth's character in The Last Battle. Come to think of it, I don't think she's read most of Lewis' work, because if she had, she would have voiced her disapproval of his theology in The Great Divorce. 

[The Invested Beard]

Book 1. She's never even picked them up, but that didn't stop her from presenting "There is no good or evil; there is only power, and those too weak to seek it" as the theme of the whole book.

 

 

My mom isn't a big fan of fantasy. Actually, that's putting it mildly—she spent most of my life so averse to fantasy that I was barely even allowed to read or watch anything from that genre unless it was Christian or explicitly educational. So Magic School Bus was allowed, although she didn't let the occasional assertion or implication that evolution is true go unchallenged. When I said I wanted to write fantasy, she tried to talk me out of it. 

 

So far as C.S. Lewis goes, I don't think my mom ever actually read the Narnia books, and I'd be surprised if she read Till We Have Faces, because fantasy isn't her genre. This, I think, is the main reason why I was allowed to read the Narnia books, because she would not approve of the way Lewis handled Emeth's character in The Last Battle. Come to think of it, I don't think she's read most of Lewis' work, because if she had, she would have voiced her disapproval of his theology in The Great Divorce. 

 

I was going to say, a lot of Lewis' repertoire is non-fiction and concerns Christian ideology. It's unfortunate that people make uninformed pronouncements and black and white verdicts without all the information. Ah well, I am far from the first Christian to be saddened by other Christians missing the point. Not that I'm perfect and know everything, but I think there's a way to graciously deal with these differences rather than antagonizing both sides.

[Silverblade5 he/him]

Reason why my physics teacher is awesome:

[Oversleep]

As for the brownie analogy:
Analogies are anything but valid form of argument. You know that "If all your friends jumped off the bridge, would you also do it?". The correct answer is "yes". Because, as this xkcd puts it: my first thought after seeing all my friends jumping off a bridge isn't "my friends are foolish and I won't be like them" but "Oh God, are they OK? What's happening, is the bridge on fire?".

Faith isn't about avoiding different beliefs and viewpoints: it's sticking to yours while encountering those different to yours.

Edited March 18, 2016 by Oversleep

[Stormgate he/him]

I think entertainment as a balance. Do the questionable parts (ancestor worship, violence, magic, etc.) overshadow the actual story? If they do, then the story is about that activity. If it plays a minor role, supporting the main plot and story of the literature/novel, then it's probably okay.

There is a balance in all things. Twyparents have no clue what the Braize I'm talking about.

[Young Bard he/him]

Although, I'd argue even about classifying 'ancestor worship' or 'magic' as questionable. I see absolutely nothing wrong with reading about those 2 even exclusively. (This is coming from a determined atheist, however.)

Edited March 19, 2016 by The Young Bard

[Delightful]

As someone who grew up religious, I never had an issue with magic. I knew it wasn't real. I might have pretended it was but I drew the line between fiction and reality.

Now sometimes I think the line is a little more blurred. But I never really deep down believed i could wave a wand and mal magic happen. The same way I knew I couldn't suddenly turn into Kim Possible and fight all the bad guy with my bare hands. I hoped and dreamed but it never made me any less religious.

[Voidus]

As someone who grew up religious, I never had an issue with magic. I knew it wasn't real. I might have pretended it was but I drew the line between fiction and reality.

Now sometimes I think the line is a little more blurred. But I never really deep down believed i could wave a wand and mal magic happen. The same way I knew I couldn't suddenly turn into Kim Possible and fight all the bad guy with my bare hands. I hoped and dreamed but it never made me any less religious.

Because your faith isn't so flimsy that watching a cartoon is going to forever shake the foundations of your worldview, like most sane people. If your faith is so weak that a cartoon with ancestor worship in it could shake it then you have to question whether or not you actually have faith at all.

[Quiver he/him]

Well, I have finally finished my sixty hour work week. 

 

Naturally, the first thing I did after  finishing a twelve hour shift is not sleep.

 

I might regret this later.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

I think entertainment as a balance. Do the questionable parts (ancestor worship, violence, magic, etc.) overshadow the actual story? If they do, then the story is about that activity. If it plays a minor role, supporting the main plot and story of the literature/novel, then it's probably okay.

There is a balance in all things. Twyparents have no clue what the Braize I'm talking about.

Although, I'd argue even about classifying 'ancestor worship' or 'magic' as questionable. I see absolutely nothing wrong with reading about those 2 even exclusively. (This is coming from a determined atheist, however.)

 

I'm more inclined to side with Bard here, though if reading about ancestor worship or magic makes you uncomfortable, don't do it. However, I think it's healthy to learn about faiths that differ from one's own, and to do it with an open mind (not the way my parents went about it, i.e., "Our faith is better so let's see how wrong these other guys are.") 

 

As someone who grew up religious, I never had an issue with magic. I knew it wasn't real. I might have pretended it was but I drew the line between fiction and reality.

Now sometimes I think the line is a little more blurred. But I never really deep down believed i could wave a wand and mal magic happen. The same way I knew I couldn't suddenly turn into Kim Possible and fight all the bad guy with my bare hands. I hoped and dreamed but it never made me any less religious.

 

The excuse my parents gave me was one that was relatively common in our circle, that is, "The magic in the Potterverse is called 'witchcraft.' Witchcraft is real, so if they see Harry casting spells and looking all cool, they'll think witchcraft is cool and they'll all become Wiccans!!!!11!!!!" So I think that was part of it, but they also took it a step or three further than others. When I was about thirteen, I told them I kinda sorta maybe wanted to try reading the Harry Potter books….and was treated to a long lecture about how I had a habit of blurring the lines between fantasy and reality, and they were worried that if I read Harry Potter, I wouldn't be able to separate the two. 

 

Yet, they allowed my brother and me to watch and read Lord of the Rings and Marvel movies without question, so I'm not entirely sure how much of the above was genuine concern and how much was just their trying to maintain control. 

 

Because your faith isn't so flimsy that watching a cartoon is going to forever shake the foundations of your worldview, like most sane people. If your faith is so weak that a cartoon with ancestor worship in it could shake it then you have to question whether or not you actually have faith at all.

 

Edited March 19, 2016 by TwiLyghtSansSparkles

[Voidus]

I'm more inclined to side with Bard here, though if reading about ancestor worship or magic makes you uncomfortable, don't do it. However, I think it's healthy to learn about faiths that differ from one's own, and to do it with an open mind (not the way my parents went about it, i.e., "Our faith is better so let's see how wrong these other guys are.") 

 

 

The excuse my parents gave me was one that was relatively common in our circle, that is, "The magic in the Potterverse is called 'witchcraft.' Witchcraft is real, so if they see Harry casting spells and looking all cool, they'll think witchcraft is cool and they'll all become Wiccans!!!!11!!!!" So I think that was part of it, but they also took it a step or three further than others. When I was about thirteen, I told them I kinda sorta maybe wanted to try reading the Harry Potter books….and was treated to a long lecture about how I had a habit of blurring the lines between fantasy and reality, and they were worried that if I read Harry Potter, I wouldn't be able to separate the two. 

 

Yet, they allowed my brother and me to watch and read Lord of the Rings and Marvel movies without question, so I'm not entirely sure how much of the above was genuine concern and how much was just their trying to maintain control. 

 

 

Yeah Mrs. Voidus and I would like to teach our children as much as we can about other faiths, I also recognize that I have a bit of a bias so I'm thinking I might ask for some help from friends so they can have other faiths beliefs explained to them without having it changed through my prejudices. Lots of people of varying faiths on the Shard so in a few years time I might even start a topic for it. (Alongside the several dozen topics on how best to teach them that Sanderson is clearly the best author of all time)

That's kind of my problem, either you recognize that there is a clear distinction between fantasy and reality and acknowledge that the magic in harry potter is absolutely nothing like genuine wiccan beliefs or you think it's a realistic portrayl in which case... I mean honestly? They have freaking brooms and castles and actual magic, I would stop being an atheist in a second if I got to play quidditch.

But if they genuinely worried that the latter is the case then it's clearly them who are unable to separate reality from fiction, what harm is there in letting a child say a bunch of latin words and waving around a stick? God isn't going to smite someone for childhood innocence and unless the spells actually end up working it's not likely going to change their religion. And again, if the spells do end up working then you get flying brooms so win-win.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

Yeah Mrs. Voidus and I would like to teach our children as much as we can about other faiths, I also recognize that I have a bit of a bias so I'm thinking I might ask for some help from friends so they can have other faiths beliefs explained to them without having it changed through my prejudices. Lots of people of varying faiths on the Shard so in a few years time I might even start a topic for it. (Alongside the several dozen topics on how best to teach them that Sanderson is clearly the best author of all time)

That's kind of my problem, either you recognize that there is a clear distinction between fantasy and reality and acknowledge that the magic in harry potter is absolutely nothing like genuine wiccan beliefs or you think it's a realistic portrayl in which case... I mean honestly? They have freaking brooms and castles and actual magic, I would stop being an atheist in a second if I got to play quidditch.

But if they genuinely worried that the latter is the case then it's clearly them who are unable to separate reality from fiction, what harm is there in letting a child say a bunch of latin words and waving around a stick? God isn't going to smite someone for childhood innocence and unless the spells actually end up working it's not likely going to change their religion. And again, if the spells do end up working then you get flying brooms so win-win.

 

I think us Sharders of faith would be honored to help you and Mrs. Voidus teach Voidus Jr.  

 

Exactly. And the biggest irony here is that I actually knew a bit (not a lot, but the basics) about Wicca before I ever picked up Philosopher's Stone, so I knew immediately that the magic at Hogwarts was nothing like Wicca. If I'd read them not knowing a thing about Wicca, and decided to explore it as a result, I'd have been disappointed.  

 

"God isn't going to smite someone for childhood innocence." Can I get that printed on a T-shirt? No—a couple dozen T-shirts so I can always be wearing one around my parents? And having read the books, I think they're actually quite compatible with a belief in God. If my parents were able to put aside their prejudices and actually read them, I think they'd quite enjoy all of the positive messages about bravery and friendship. (Though they would absolutely not appreciate my reading against the grain with Draco's character. ) 

[Orlion Blight he/him]

It's really about control and whether or not someone is interested or likes something. As an example, my father would get riled up about Harry Potter because it used "magic" and was therefore evil because magic is evil, the scriptures say so, etc. My mother liked Harry Potter, though, so we were allowed to read it. One day, my mom was watching a Harry Potter movie when my dad walked in. He didn't know what it was, but the bright colors must have interested him because he sat down and watched it and enjoyed it. He found it it was Harry Potter and magically (pun intended) no longer had an issue with Harry Potter because it was "about good vs evil" (translate:" I like this now, so it can't be bad!")

 

And let's face it, there are talking animals and magic in the Bible. Just because one decides to label it "performing miracles" does not make it not magic. Seriously, if another story with a character other than Jesus had did all the "miracles" it would be considered magic. And the only difference would be some variation of "it's not the true power of God/ Not the true path."

 

And that's the danger of religion... of well, a cult like mentality. There is no room for exploration because the goal and means to get to it are all ready defined. Anything outside of that is not only superfluous but detrimental because it leads away from the all important goal.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

It's really about control and whether or not someone is interested or likes something. As an example, my father would get riled up about Harry Potter because it used "magic" and was therefore evil because magic is evil, the scriptures say so, etc. My mother liked Harry Potter, though, so we were allowed to read it. One day, my mom was watching a Harry Potter movie when my dad walked in. He didn't know what it was, but the bright colors must have interested him because he sat down and watched it and enjoyed it. He found it it was Harry Potter and magically (pun intended) no longer had an issue with Harry Potter because it was "about good vs evil" (translate:" I like this now, so it can't be bad!")

 

And let's face it, there are talking animals and magic in the Bible. Just because one decides to label it "performing miracles" does not make it not magic. Seriously, if another story with a character other than Jesus had did all the "miracles" it would be considered magic. And the only difference would be some variation of "it's not the true power of God/ Not the true path."

 

And that's the danger of religion... of well, a cult like mentality. There is no room for exploration because the goal and means to get to it are all ready defined. Anything outside of that is not only superfluous but detrimental because it leads away from the all important goal.

 

The thing that my parents, and those like them, conveniently forget is that the magic warned against in the Bible was nothing like the magic in most fantasy series today. Child sacrifice and other things that caused harm to humans were major components of this sort of magic, and I can't think of a single fantasy series I've read where child sacrifice wouldn't automatically be considered the darkest of dark magic. As you pointed out, the magic in most fantasy series is more akin to miracles (Harry Potter) or superpowers (Mistborn). 

[Oversleep]

As Lev Grossman in Magicians said: "Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from miracle."

Going a little BTW, I'm a little sad that in works set in urban fantasy there are rarely any religious characters. I know the topic can be hard and authors may not want to do it, but... c'mon. Apart from a little episode in Grossman's Magicians where we have a Catholic mage and from quite a number of going on it in Lukyanienko's Watch series where some Others are also believing in God ("Bible says that those who do magic are damned, period." vs "But we're helping people, I think God is merciful" is one example)... I find this trope almost nonexistent.

That's partly why in the story I'm developing I want the main character to be deeply believing... but if he can see people getting attacked by monsters, why wouldn't he help them? Wasn't prophets also using magic? But their power was coming from God. Maybe his power is also a gift to protect people? Or maybe he will be damned? What about confession? How can he not mention magic? How he can mention it so the priest would understand? And so on.

[Kaymyth she/her]

I think us Sharders of faith would be honored to help you and Mrs. Voidus teach Voidus Jr.

 

Exactly. And the biggest irony here is that I actually knew a bit (not a lot, but the basics) about Wicca before I ever picked up Philosopher's Stone, so I knew immediately that the magic at Hogwarts was nothing like Wicca. If I'd read them not knowing a thing about Wicca, and decided to explore it as a result, I'd have been disappointed.

 

"God isn't going to smite someone for childhood innocence." Can I get that printed on a T-shirt? No—a couple dozen T-shirts so I can always be wearing one around my parents? And having read the books, I think they're actually quite compatible with a belief in God. If my parents were able to put aside their prejudices and actually read them, I think they'd quite enjoy all of the positive messages about bravery and friendship. (Though they would absolutely not appreciate my reading against the grain with Draco's character. ) 

 

They certainly wouldn't appreciate your preference of having Narcissa for a mother. 

 

(Is it bad that there's a tiny part of me that is rooting for you to blast the South Park movie soundtrack throughout the house while your mother is there?  Yeah, it probably is.  I therefore embrace my inner badness.)

Edited March 19, 2016 by Kaymyth

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

They certainly wouldn't appreciate your preference of having Narcissa for a mother. 

 

(Is it bad that there's a tiny part of me that is rooting for you to blast the South Park movie soundtrack throughout the house while your mother is there?  Yeah, it probably is.  I therefore embrace my inner badness.)

 

This is why I'm glad my mom has never been tempted to join a single fansite. Especially this one.  

 

(It'd be bad enough if I blared Fall Out Boy. ) 

[Kaymyth she/her]

This is why I'm glad my mom has never been tempted to join a single fansite. Especially this one.

 

(It'd be bad enough if I blared Fall Out Boy. ) 

 

I can think of one particular song on that soundtrack where all you'd have to do is change a name, and she'd be REALLY offended. 

[Orlion Blight he/him]

I can think of one particular song on that soundtrack where all you'd have to do is change a name, and she'd be REALLY offended.

Is it a certain Cartman song about a certain mother of a certain Kyle?

[Kaymyth she/her]

Is it a certain Cartman song about a certain mother of a certain Kyle?

 

That would be the one.  I sometimes sing the modified version in my head when Twi reports on her female parental unit's latest shenanigans.