Long Game 18: Holly and Iron

[Silverblade5 he/him]

Hey guys, I just had an idea! I think it might be helpful if we go over past posts and look for statements that, if true, could be considered "aes sedai" truths.

[Wonko the Sane he/him]

Okay, Stink. Getting a little close to that Post:PM ceiling?

Silverblade, first of all, you could easily have put that contract up yourself. If you were a Skindancer, there's no way it would be carried out, and you could use it -- as you just have -- to confirm your innocence.

And why on earth would a Skindancer put out a contract to sabotage someone? They could do it themselves, or, if they had more pressing concerns, they could just ask one of their buddies to do it in their convenient little Eliminator doc! I suppose it would be an effective way to transfer money from one Skindancer to another, but apart from that, I've got nothing.

Although, I can't fathom why a Villager would do it, either. The only reason for a Villager to want you sabotaged is if they suspected you of being a Skindancer, and then they could hardly count on the Skindancers to target you, now could they?

Actually, thinking about it, the most valid reason for that contract to be posted is if you are a Skindancer, and intend to use it to confirm yourself, as you in fact did. I'm afraid that your post has only served to increase my suspicion of you. I have not missed that you did not claim not to be a Skindancer in that post -- though you seem to want us to think that you did -- nor have you all turn. In fact, that entire post seems to be very deliberately crafted to be composed of 'Aes Sedai truths', as you call them. I, also suspect that a Skindancer put up that contract -- you, or one of your compatriots.

I insist that you come out and tell us, without mincing words, that you are not a Skindancer.

[STINK he/him]

I actually haven't sent any PMs or got any.

[Mailliw73 he/him]

I actually haven't sent any PMs or got any.

Funny, I remember sending you one a couple days ago.

I am not a skindancer.

So, I've been debating whether or not to divulge this info, but I can't think of any reason it could hurt us now. I've already told Lopen, and I'd rather tell everyone than just one person. PK told me two turns ago that he had put all his EP into Archives. I don't know if there's anything we can learn from that except that the Skindancers might be concentrating on that field for some reason.

BB, I'm still not convinced. I won't throw both votes on you yet, as if like to hear what everyone has to say, but you're still my top suspect.

[Wonko the Sane he/him]

Funny, I remember sending you one a couple days ago.

I am not a skindancer.

So, I've been debating whether or not to divulge this info, but I can't think of any reason it could hurt us now. I've already told Lopen, and I'd rather tell everyone than just one person. PK told me two turns ago that he had put all his EP into Archives. I don't know if there's anything we can learn from that except that the Skindancers might be concentrating on that field for some reason.

BB, I'm still not convinced. I won't throw both votes on you yet, as if like to hear what everyone has to say, but you're still my top suspect.

 

Oh, I sure as Damnation will. Bridge Boy, Bridge Boy​.​ 'Still not convinced'? What has he said to convince you at all?​ He dodges every question we throw at him, his only retort vague assurances that we need to 'trust him'. I'm sorry, but no. That's not how this game is played.

 

BB, until you start cooperating with your supposed allies to at least a small degree, I consider you the enemy.

[Elithanathile he/him]

That's fine, and I will be expelled if it comes to it, it just means you have lost a valuable player through your decisions. I will not publicly share my information, and I will leave it up to the two people I have trusted with some of it to reveal themselves or not, as I will not.

 

For any linguistics people who don't trust me, I am not a skindancer/eliminator/direct threat to the villagers.

 

Also, I am fine with people not trusting me, the only problem I have is people actively mistrusting me, as that could be dangerous for my health.

 

I'm not going to respond to the RP, as it is terribly OOC for my character to even be seen, not to mention talking to someone and getting into an argument with them. But, just for the record, the MoA will make Acaelus's life as bad as he needs to if it means he can save the university from the skindancers and itself. One person's personal comfort is decidedly secondary to a possible infestation of skindancers taking over the university.

[Mailliw73 he/him]

Wait, you've shared with two players now?

[Elithanathile he/him]

Yeah, you guys seemed to doubt the first one, so I sent the info to second one for backup.

[STINK he/him]

I don't think it was doubting the first one, but more that we didn't know who it was.

[Mailliw73 he/him]

I don't think it was doubting the first one, but more that we didn't know who it was.

Stink, can I ask why you lied about receiving PMs? You didn't answer the first time.

[STINK he/him]

Well, when I said that I was more thinking about C2 and this cycle, not C1 M1.

[Wonko the Sane he/him]

BB, do you not understand that this is a team game? You win by making sure that the last people alive at the end are on your team, not by making sure that you're one of them. Your personal health is meaningless, except insofar as you are able to be of use to the Village. So far, that appears to be next to nil.

I think I'm beginning to understand you. You really don't understand this game, do you? This is a deception game, and deception games are played differently than any other type of game out there. You're trying to keep score by the kills each team makes. Fair enough, that's how most games do it, and it is ultimately what decides the game. But it's not really a good metric for keeping track of which team is winning. Like I said before, it's all about information. who knows what is way more important than who kills who. The team that is doing better at its given goal -- concealing information for the Eliminators, revealing it for the Village -- is the team that's winning.

My opinion of you stands, because I can't take the risk that you are exactly what you appear to be. Why, for example, do you still refuse to take ten minutes and confirm whether or not you've lied this round? That should be easy, and if you haven't, you could erase every scrap of my own suspicion, and probably a lot of the others as well (though they aren't directly connected to the Analyst). I am no longer aggressively convinced of your guilt, however: It's possible you're just a confused player who is being punished for his lack of understanding in what is admittedly one of the most unique types of games in existence. If that is the case, I am sorry.

[STINK he/him]

Also, shouldn't people (or by next cycle) be getting some actions done? This is kinda like one big C1 where we do this and that, and now it's time for the gritty stuff.

[Wonko the Sane he/him]

They certainly should. I have my Analyst, and I know one other player's abilities, but there's more than a dozen Arcanum students out there now. Hopefully, next turn will see a much needed influx of information, but without knowing their abilities, It's hard to say what we'll get. For all we know, they could all have abilities poorly suited to information gathering.

 

We should have at least one, and possibly three Namers out there; they should be using Wind to spy on PMs, which helps. Other than that, we just have to wait an hope. In the meantime, the Analyst will continue to clear or condemn players one at a time.

 

I urge either player BB has told his powers to to come forward. You don't need to reveal what those powers are, just that they exist and are valid excuses for his behavior in this game. You're not really at any risk. You think the Eliminators would try to get rid of you because you know what BB's powers are, rather than coming after BB himself? striking at you would serve no purpose, and would only really serve to lend credence to what you and BB are saying.

 

BB, I'm still waiting for you to tell us whether or not you've lied. Why is this so hard?

Edited March 8, 2016 by Wonko the Sane

[Firemuffin42]

Playing devil's advocate here, BB did say that he wasn't a skindancer so that someone could fact check it. If he knows we have a linguistic analyst and he was a skindancer, why would he take that risk? Unless he thinks we're bluffing and has decided to call that bluff. Either way, whoever the linguistic analyst is needs to fact check that statement, because it is still possible that BB is just a player who is concerned about his own personal safety and doesn't want to make himself a target by revealing information.

Want to point out as well, if a skindancer becomes a master then he or she can then destroy that field of study. Which means finding out if BB is a skindancer is really important. If he is and we allow him to be elevated again then whatever field he's in is destroyed. If he's a player though, having a field of study relatively secure would definitely not be a bad thing.

Again, he made the statement that he isn't a skindancer… let's fact check that.

I am not a skindancer

Edited March 8, 2016 by Thisismyusername

[Guest]

Okay, so Wonko is savage. What else? 

 

Wonko, why is it so important to you that BB tell you his powers? BB has specifically said that it is not in his (or the village's) best interest for him to reveal his powers, so I'm unsure what the point of all this is other than to make people mad and dominate discussion for a day.

 

Also, I'm just gonna be frank and say that the language of this post seems to be trying very hard to make you out to be the confirmed good guy, and BB the clueless person who doesn't understand what's even good for him. I'm not even gonna go into all the inaccuracies within the post itself (because hopefully you can all see them), but I don't like what you're doing in implying that BB is somehow sabotaging the village by refusing to do what you want him to do. When is revealing your powers publicly something that is necessary to help the village? The information revealed in the thread goes straight to the Eliminators as well, and why should we trust you to be the one who gets it in a PM? For that matter, how did this even start?

1. Joe votes BB for being elevated.

2. BB says he's not going to reveal his powers publicly. Reasonable.

3. Kynedath immediately votes BB for not revealing his powers without any reasoning. Later explains that he objects to blind following.

4. Wonko goes after BB, places two votes eventually.

 

My votes will go on Wonko and Wonko. Basically this entire cycle has been Wonko ignoring BB's arguments and saying that he personally wants to know BB's abilities. He's been using language that mischaracterizes things that BB has said, and even deliberately tried to directly undermine BB's playing ability by declaring that BB doesn't understand the game.

[Wonko the Sane he/him]

Thisismyusername, I agree...

 

Hold up -- I can't keep calling you that. It's long and clunky, and you told me you wanted to change it. Since I can't find a satisfying way to shorten your name, I am going to call you Tiffy. It's a familiarization of TIFU, which is in turn an acronym of your name. If you don't like it, get around to picking a better one.  Now, with that out of the way:

 

Tiffy, I agree that that's a point in his favor, but his refusal to give a straight answer about whether he's lied nullifies it somewhat, and is completely unjustifiable. As long as he remains silent on this point, he can claim, post-analysis, that one of his other statements, and not his alignment claim, was the lie. I have asked him to close this loophole repeatedly, and he has ignored or deflected my questions each time. If he is a Villager, then he had absolutely no motivation to do so.

 

I agree that solving this is of critical importance right now, and have informed my contact that I believe their next scan should be on Bridge Boy, but if he refuses to confirm his honesty this turn, it may be a waste of a turn.

 

On a different note, I don't want to let Silverblade creep back into the woodwork without first responding to the arguments I've leveled against him. Silver, are you willing to make an unqualified alignment declaration, or aren't you?

[Elithanathile he/him]

Didn't I say earlier that I haven't lied, as far as I can remember? I might have said something, but if I did, I can't remember what.

 

Edit: Read W0nko's post, and I just have to say, I would be more than happy to be scanned, as I am a villager, and I'm not sure what this "loophole" you mention is, as I have no idea, and have no recollection of you "asking me to close this loophole repeatedly." Let me say it again. I am a villager, and am not a skindancer. I haven't lied in the thread. Happy? One scan on me, and you can be done. A vote on W0nko for his apparent obsession with me, (Creeeeeeeepy......) while removing my vote on Kynedath. I've decided to trust him, and I'll back it up with a vote removal.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Bridge Boy

[Kynedath]

There isn't a single f in their name. Why is the acronym TIFU? It should be TIMU.

[Elithanathile he/him]

So Timmi? Or Timuthy? Or perhaps Trismun?

 

Edit: Yeah, everyone on the shard with a username that's too long tends to get an abbreviation, like Paranoid King to PK, Bridge Boy to BB, Phattamer to Phatt, Anamaximder to Anna, Wyrmhero to Wyrm, Kasamir to Kas, etc. So TIMU, probably a good idea to state what you'd like it to be before someone else does, if you have a preference.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Bridge Boy

[Silverblade5 he/him]

Okay, Stink. Getting a little close to that Post:PM ceiling?

Silverblade, first of all, you could easily have put that contract up yourself. If you were a Skindancer, there's no way it would be carried out, and you could use it -- as you just have -- to confirm your innocence.

And why on earth would a Skindancer put out a contract to sabotage someone? They could do it themselves, or, if they had more pressing concerns, they could just ask one of their buddies to do it in their convenient little Eliminator doc! I suppose it would be an effective way to transfer money from one Skindancer to another, but apart from that, I've got nothing.

Although, I can't fathom why a Villager would do it, either. The only reason for a Villager to want you sabotaged is if they suspected you of being a Skindancer, and then they could hardly count on the Skindancers to target you, now could they?

Actually, thinking about it, the most valid reason for that contract to be posted is if you are a Skindancer, and intend to use it to confirm yourself, as you in fact did. I'm afraid that your post has only served to increase my suspicion of you. I have not missed that you did not claim not to be a Skindancer in that post -- though you seem to want us to think that you did -- nor have you all turn. In fact, that entire post seems to be very deliberately crafted to be composed of 'Aes Sedai truths', as you call them. I, also suspect that a Skindancer put up that contract -- you, or one of your compatriots.

I insist that you come out and tell us, without mincing words, that you are not a Skindancer.

I'm sorry you feel that way. I will say right now that I'm not a skindancer, and apologize for not including it in prior posts. I've been writing these between classes, so they've been a bit rushed, and posted immediately after writing.

On aes sedai posts: most of my non RP posts have been either to defend myself, or to share ideas. I want nothing more than to help the village. However, my natural personality and inexperience make this hard. Because of this, I've settled between trying to follow up on other people's ideas, and throwing out ideas when they come to me and letting others decide what to do with them. Every statement in this post is a true one. If you don't believe this, then I'm sorry.

I hope I've managed to make clear my position, actions, motivation, and intentions. If I have, I would greatly appreciate it if you said so, along with what I can do to assist. If not, please state what needs clarification and why it was unclear so that I can fix it in the future. If I am still unable to clear myself in your eyes, then I shall get out of the way and not interfere.

[Wonko the Sane he/him]

Okay, so Wonko is savage. What else? 

 

Wonko, why is it so important to you that BB tell you his powers? BB has specifically said that it is not in his (or the village's) best interest for him to reveal his powers, so I'm unsure what the point of all this is other than to make people mad and dominate discussion for a day.

 

Also, I'm just gonna be frank and say that the language of this post seems to be trying very hard to make you out to be the confirmed good guy, and BB the clueless person who doesn't understand what's even good for him. I'm not even gonna go into all the inaccuracies within the post itself (because hopefully you can all see them), but I don't like what you're doing in implying that BB is somehow sabotaging the village by refusing to do what you want him to do. When is revealing your powers publicly something that is necessary to help the village? The information revealed in the thread goes straight to the Eliminators as well, and why should we trust you to be the one who gets it in a PM? For that matter, how did this even start?

1. Joe votes BB for being elevated.

2. BB says he's not going to reveal his powers publicly. Reasonable.

3. Kynedath immediately votes BB for not revealing his powers without any reasoning. Later explains that he objects to blind following.

4. Wonko goes after BB, places two votes eventually.

 

My votes will go on Wonko and Wonko. Basically this entire cycle has been Wonko ignoring BB's arguments and saying that he personally wants to know BB's abilities. He's been using language that mischaracterizes things that BB has said, and even deliberately tried to directly undermine BB's playing ability by declaring that BB doesn't understand the game.

 

It's true that I initially urged BB to be open with his powers, but I abandoned that line quickly. I have a policy of extreme candor wherever possible, but I respect that others do not share it.

 

I suggested myself because I wanted to know, simple as that. I don't consider myself to be any better confirmed than any other player, and I don't expect you to trust me because I claim to have met an Analyst. I would have been nearly as happy if we got confirmation from one of his existing confidants. I don't want to know what his powers are; I want to know if, as he claims, they provide reasoning for what I consider to be mild to moderate suspicious activity.

 

The information that I was dogging him for, though, was not his powerset, but a simple confirmation that he hadn't lied this turn, which he seemed to be strangely reticent to give. My increasing aggressiveness was a result of the fact that he seemed to be consistently ignoring my more reasonable requests, instead arguing only against those I was okay with him refusing. Now that he has given that confirmation, I will of course back off.

 

Didn't I say earlier that I haven't lied, as far as I can remember? I might have said something, but if I did, I can't remember what.

 

Edit: Read W0nko's post, and I just have to say, I would be more than happy to be scanned, as I am a villager, and I'm not sure what this "loophole" you mention is, as I have no idea, and have no recollection of you "asking me to close this loophole repeatedly." Let me say it again. I am a villager, and am not a skindancer. I haven't lied in the thread. Happy? One scan on me, and you can be done. A vote on W0nko for his apparent obsession with me, (Creeeeeeeepy......) while removing my vote on Kynedath. I've decided to trust him, and I'll back it up with a vote removal.

 

You did not, and this is, perhaps, the source of the friction between us. From my perspective, you appeared to be ignoring request after request to give that simple confirmation, so much so that I began to find your apparent refusal even more damning than the loophole itself. If you believe that you gave that confirmation earlier, then you had every right to be indignant when I kept hounding you for it. In answer to your question, yes, I am happy, but I am also deeply sorry to have upset you as much as I obviously have. Bridge Boy, Bridge Boy.

 

I must also apologize for maligning your understanding of the game. That post was intended at the time to be conciliatory, but I allowed myself to write it from a seat of emotion. Looking back, I cannot understand how I ever meant it to be taken as anything other than an attack on your person. I was wholly in the wrong there, and can do nothing but hope you accept my humblest apologies.

 

I'm sorry you feel that way. I will say right now that I'm not a skindancer, and apologize for not including it in prior posts. I've been writing these between classes, so they've been a bit rushed, and posted immediately after writing.

On aes sedai posts: most of my non RP posts have been either to defend myself, or to share ideas. I want nothing more than to help the village. However, my natural personality and inexperience make this hard. Because of this, I've settled between trying to follow up on other people's ideas, and throwing out ideas when they come to me and letting others decide what to do with them. Every statement in this post is a true one. If you don't believe this, then I'm sorry.

I hope I've managed to make clear my position, actions, motivation, and intentions. If I have, I would greatly appreciate it if you said so, along with what I can do to assist. If not, please state what needs clarification and why it was unclear so that I can fix it in the future. If I am still unable to clear myself in your eyes, then I shall get out of the way and not interfere.

 

Silverblade, I don't think I ever truly had any serious suspicions for you. I'm glad that you've confirmed yourself, but your post was not nearly so suspicious as I made it out to be. I allowed you to be swept up in my pursuit of Bridge Boy. I still think the origin of this contract on your sanity warrants investigation, but I was wrong to assume it implied your guilt.

 

I'd finally like to apologize all around for my aggression this round. I like to think of myself as a levelheaded person, and that is clearly not how I behaved today. Nothing that happened today, either in reality or in my own perception, can excuse how I have acted. I can only say that I am very sorry, and promise to comport myself better in the future.

[STINK he/him]

Comport is a nice word.

[Wonko the Sane he/him]

 

There isn't a single f in their name. Why is the acronym TIFU? It should be TIMU.

 

Wow. You're absolutely right. I don't know why I thought it was TIFU. Too much Reddit, perhaps?

 

So, yeah. TIMU or Timmy.

 

He doesn't actually want to be called Thisismyusername at all. He just put that in as a placeholder because it was late when he signed up, and he was too tired to think of a name. I just needed something to call him while he procrastinates on coming up with something permanent.

 

EDIT: Problem solved. He is now Firemuffin42, so 'Muffin', probably.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Wonko the Sane

[Firemuffin42]

There… I didn't like the fact that thisismyusername was my username either… it was long and clumsy and just… not a name but a statement. Now… that has been remedied. If firemuffin is too long for some reason you can consolidate it down to muffin I guess.

Now that the BB accusations have all pretty much been dropped… I think the students should start coordinating our votes more. If we can focus our votes on one or two people we can confidently say are skindancers, then they'll get enough DP to be expelled. This is easier said than done, I know, but it's just my thought. Right now a lot of people arre voting on Wonko out of spite or frustration… that may not be all of the case, but that's at least what it looks like. Countervoting and things like that will hurt us. I have no reason to believe that wonko is a skindancer. Voting so much against him will jsut punish a student. Stuff like that will turn a consolidated effort to route out skindancers into something more akin to the Salem witch trials with innocent people being eliminated out of personal enmity between the prosecutor and the defendant.

For that reason, I urge people to pull their votes from Wonko and work together to try and find a real enemy that we can all vote against and expel. Teamwork on our part is the biggest threat to the skindancers. They succeed through distrust and chaos. If we take away that, learn who we can trust, and do it in an organized manner, then the skindancerss will be much less of a threat.