Long Game 16: The Empty Throne Part 2: The Catacombs

[Amanuensis he/him]

Well, in case anyone still believes that was a WGG, I got a note confirming Adavantos' loyalty.

 

Okay, so, phattemer is the third party I was referring to when I said I was told another Snitch was going to be scanning me. Considering that makes three notes that have been received, then I suspect that either the note sent to Kipper that was not mine is from a Traitor with a Street Performer or Mirror on their team, or phattemer's a Traitor trying to get me to trust him by claiming he's in cahoots with another Snitch. Needless to say, Elbereth, although nobody has died quite yet, it seems a lot more than nothing has happened so far.

 

Right now, I'm inclined to believe that for sure one of the following players is evil, if not more: Meta, Hellscythe, Kipper or phattemer. There seems to me a lot more evidence stacked against Meta, and I would really like to hear him defend himself from HS' role and result reveal, but I also suspect that one of the other two Snitch's are either evil or not real.

[STINK he/him]

Then why are you doing an item thing with Phatt?

[Amanuensis he/him]

Then why are you doing an item thing with Phatt?

 

Because I believe in innocent until proven guilty, and it's a great way to gain information / organize the village? One thing I've realized is that it's much easier to win as villagers if players approach these games with a certain mindset. Look at it this way; would you, in real life, condemn someone to death based on little information or just words alone? Eliminators are always going to be trying to manipulate and kill us. Why should we do their job for them? If we can communicate with one another with some semblance of trust (not all, of course) but enough to organize ourselves like a real village, doesn't that make it much easier for us to figure things out? I am just one player. I can only do so much. Same applies to everyone. If you wanted, Stink, you could literally do nothing but search for an item every day and night and maybe eventually all by yourself get the materials to compose a device on your own before you die. But there's a reason a trading system is in place; to give us an incentive to organize, and the Traitors another way to control us. That is why I am doing the item thing with Phatt. I know I'm good, and by helping out with said conglomerate I can watch for shady goings ons and report it accordingly. And if it turns out he's good and we're able to establish a working system where devices get built sooner rather than later and put into the right hands / used efficiently and carefully, then at the end of the day the Traitors jobs are that much more difficult, hopefully pushing them to try harder.

Edited January 21, 2016 by Adavantos

[Mailliw73 he/him]

The only thing I'm seeing is an SE Spartan and some good-looking quotes 

See my title? And if you see my profile, you'll see that I've been in the info business since before Kipper was born in his current iteration.

 

Shallan. I would like to know if you are actually planning on showing up to the game.

[Amanuensis he/him]

I'm about to go to bed, but before I do I just wanted to inform everyone that from now on I'll be adding quick links to every turns write up for this game in my signature (a more efficient way of Hael's method, I believe) and to also add a countdown timer for this cycle.

 

[Metacognition he/him]

There seems to me a lot more evidence stacked against Meta, and I would really like to hear him defend himself from HS' role and result reveal, but I also suspect that one of the other two Snitch's are either evil or not real.

 

 

Defend myself against what? That Hellscythe confirmed that I was telling the truth? 

Yeah, don't do that, Hellscythe. That was bad of you. Why would you do that since it helps point to the fact that I'm innocent? 

 

This really isn't that difficult of a situation, though you're all trying to make it so. I drew a lot of attention on the first day because I was attacking people to get a response from them. Due to that, even I suspected that some people would want to check me out and know where I stand.

 

So:

1. That means that if I were a Traitor we wouldn't even be in this situation because I would've made sure to cloak myself in whatever means necessary to keep people from getting such information on me. Since we've had multiple people (Kip's Snitch and Hellscythe) claim to have checked up on me last night, I obviously didn't do that. 

    

2. Along the same lines, would I have really brought so much attention on myself on the first day, almost guaranteeing that I'd get scanned, if I were a Traitor without the means to conceal myself? Would any of you? Didn't think so. 

    

3. If I was pretty sure that I'd get scanned in some way, then how likely do you think it is that the Traitors had the idea that I'd be scanned? If there is a hidden role that can change what Snitches receive (or a hidden side role that says that you get false alignment readings), then it wouldn't take a genius on the Traitors' team to decide to use it on me. 

    

4. I want to firstly say that people need to stop freaking revealing their roles so easily! As of now, we have a Snitch and two Beggars out in the open by Day 2! That's crazy. Honestly Ada, I don't know why you revealed at all. It's honestly a bit suspicious, considering you're obviously a role that the Traitors would want to kill. The fact that you were protected after you had already revealed means that either the Traitors were hoping that no one took you seriously or that you were banking on that protection, trying to draw it off of everyone else, and trying to use it to pull off a WGG. There's even precedence for this type of plan working in the past (Burnt), so I wouldn't put it past you. 

   But I'm getting off topic. The point is, we know of 4 information based roles in the game already. Even if the Traitors do have one of them, that's still 3 to 1. That's quite a bit. The Traitors will likely have some means of either cloaking themselves from scans or ways to deceive the scans. Considering that we've already have a situation where my alignment has changed, guess which one I'm banking on?

So, it's either Kip is lying (I kind of doubt it. Which is why I thought it was more likely that I had Compulsive Liar), or there's a role that isn't being taken into account. 

 

I am honestly not completely sure what I think about his situation. There are a large number of roles and accusations and speculations going around and making things confusing. Nevertheless, from what I have seen of his gameplay, Meta seems to be lacking in a defense. I know that there isn't that much that he can say if he is innocent, but he still lacks that passion and aggression that he had when attacking Mark.

 

Last cycle, people get suspicious of me for coming off too aggressive. Now, this cycle, I'm suspicious because I'm not aggressive enough. Make up your minds, slontzes! 

[Amanuensis he/him]

4. I want to firstly say that people need to stop freaking revealing their roles so easily! As of now, we have a Snitch and two Beggars out in the open by Day 2! That's crazy. Honestly Ada, I don't know why you revealed at all. It's honestly a bit suspicious, considering you're obviously a role that the Traitors would want to kill. The fact that you were protected after you had already revealed means that either the Traitors were hoping that no one took you seriously or that you were banking on that protection, trying to draw it off of everyone else, and trying to use it to pull off a WGG. There's even precedence for this type of plan working in the past (Burnt), so I wouldn't put it past you.

 

I know I said I was going to bed but I've been having a lot of trouble sleeping lately, so here I am. I will try to keep this short though since I really do need to fall asleep. Because this is the only part directly relevant to me, I'll go ahead and explain why I did what I did. If you look at the last three games where I ended up being a villager (MR9 LG15b, AG2) I was killed relatively early. Both in MR9 and AG2 I was killed on the second night either because the eliminators thought I was paying more attention to the game than others which was bad for them or because I had been the first player scanned (presumably for the same reason, though I never asked the Seeker why they chose me). In LG15b, the doc considered me for a target until I revealed that I was a Voidbringer (which was a lie) so that I could get as involved in that game as I wanted to without fearing an attack. They could have called my bluff, but fortunately they did not, expecting that even if I was lying I was being protected by an Elantrian (which was exactly what happened for a few cycles until he revealed to me and I told him to protect someone else). Anyway, in this game compared to all of those, I got a role that I believed was valuable enough that dying early would do an extra amount of harm to the village (as of course, at the time, I had no idea how many Snitches there were, let alone if they could be trusted) and so I made sure to make it painfully obvious what I was. My intent? To draw the intention of both a Bodyguard and the Traitors, which culminated into exactly what happened last night; a full cycle spent where everyone who had a role could use it without any of my teammates dying. Am I worthy of suspicion? Certainly. It's a bold move that few players make, let alone often, though I suspect it might become a thing considering how well it ended up working. But as was just stated, phattemer received a note from a Snitch saying that I am indeed a Blind Snitch and therefore any suspicion accrued on me is wasted. If you want to keep thinking I'm evil, go ahead, but I promise there's other players more worthy of being analyzed if your end goal truly is to find the Traitors.

[phattemer]

It didn't tell me you were blind, actually. I think that it doesn't reveal side roles.

[Amanuensis he/him]

So just primary role and color, then? Very well.

 

Kipper, can you confirm that both the note you received about HMM and Meta did not include side roles?

[Mailliw73 he/him]

It didn't tell me you were blind, actually. I think that it doesn't reveal side roles.

So just primary role and color, then? Very well.

 

Kipper, can you confirm that both the note you received about HMM and Meta did not include side roles?

Phatt, is that correct?

 

Shallan. Shallan, I do still really want you to show up or say something, but I don't want to actually vote for you.

 

My gut tells me Meta is good. But I'm also of the opinion that Kipper is(but to a lesser extent than I think Meta is. So I'd rather lynch him than Meta.) Adavantos is supposedly cleared, but I don't trust him all the way yet.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Mailliw73

[Burnt Spaghetti she/her]

For that reason I will back off of Kipper for now, and place my vote on Burnt Spaghetti for the following reasons. First, like every player in this game, I sent you a PM last night in order to collect data on the item distribution. You answered relatively quick, though didn't express suspicion of me until a couple messages later for asking. What I don't understand with that is why share information with me if you think I might be a Traitor phishing for information? Now, if you lied to me (which I expect nearly every player did), I can understand that. But as soon as I mentioned that other players who were going around asking similar questions to me and that I had already caught a couple players lying to different players, you instantly ask me for their names and if I'd like you to send them a message to see if they lie a third time. All I told you were the three players who were gathering intel (Phatt, Mailliw and Kipper), the first of which posted openly in the thread, the following two already being known for doing just that. I did not tell you, however, the names of the players I caught in lies, as honestly I thought your desire to get involved in that was peculiar.

I didn't mention the paranoia initially because that thought hadn't crossed my mind yet. I promise that I was truthful about whether or not I had items.

I was curious about who else was doing info collecting as I hadn't heard anything from anyone else yet.

I get that my interest in the info collecting may seem peculiar for me, as I've never shown interest before, but I wanted to try something different this game. And I know that I'm not likely to have tonnes of time to post this game (though I always favour pms so I always try to be more active there) so I wanted to try and not be the silent and useless villager I normally am.

Is it wrong to want to be helpful?

"not necessarily but it seems like an eliminator sort of thing to do"

sure. I don't deny that. But for once I wanted to not play as safe as I normally do.

Then, not too much later I hear from another player that you think I'm a Traitor because I was aggressive with you in my PM - which I certainly was not. I sent every player nearly identical message (only altered to fit whether or not they voted or post D1) which I had tailored with the intent to express that they didn't have to share any of their information with me and that I'd ask for no more than numbers.

whoa wait what?? I expressed some suspicious to one player but that was before you even opened the pm. I did mention to another player about you asking questions, but I never said I was suspicious because of them being aggressive. Sure, I voiced to them the same paranoia as I did to you, but you definitely weren't aggressive.

This turn I saw you viewing the thread and yet you still have not posted. Surely you have to have some thoughts on what's happened so far, right? I understand that you're on a vacation with your family at the moment with limited internet and so I won't hold that against you, however, when I see you online viewing the thread multiple times, and know that you're capable of sending PMs, it makes me wonder why you haven't spoken up in public yet.

As said earlier, prioritise my pms except that does mean spend my there instead of working on a post (thanks for giving me motivation to post btw. I planned on posting today anyway but this makes it more Interesting).

If you're suspicious of me, honestly, confront me for it. Preferably in public, as it doesn't really help to hide that sort of thing behind closed doors. If you're suspicious of anybody, let them know now so that they can respond accordingly.

Ok… well when I discussing my suspicions in pm to Lopen, your name did come up but that was purely gut. I had one mild reason but it was pretty empty. I like to keep regularly updated suspicion percentage on each player and the highest was you (60%. 50% Is neutral) but it was nothing confrontation worthy.

But concerning today's discussion…. I keep changing my mind about who I think is lying. Initially I believed kipper about Meta but then I started wondering if this was some traitor ploy or something. My mind is still fluctuating between trusting and suspicion so I'm not to sure. I want believe Kipper is truthful and Meta is a traitor, but at the same time I want meta be double checked first. I really want to trust both. But honestly, I'm of a similar opinion to Mail- I think I mistrust kipper a bit more. but idk. something weird happened, and I think I would rather double check the scan before lynching either of them.

And then my brains coming up with random ideas like kipper and meta prob have bloodtie and so kipper just wants to be sk. I highly doubt this, but that's what my brain is up to atm.

so idk...

edit: fixing quotes

Edited January 22, 2016 by Burnt Spaghetti

[Hellscythe he/him]

Street Performer:  You are a master at sleight of hand and misdirection tricks.  Once per night cycle you may redirect one action directed against one player to another of your choosing.  (You must PM the GM with the name of the target you want protected as well as the target for the redirected action.)  Actions redirected will be chosen in order of severity.  Kills - Protections - Rest.

 

Blind:  Living in a gang is hard work.  You are either a predator or you are prey.  You may be blind but over the years you have learned to fake being able to see.  Every time you use your ability there is a 50% chance that you will target another random crew member instead. (Chosen by GM roll.  You are not informed if your target is different than what you chose.)

 

So I've thought about it and I don't think there's any way Meta could be innocent and Kipper are telling the truth at the same time except for Hidden Roles/Items.

 

A) The Snitch that gave Kipper the note is Blind. That wouldn't change the results or person of the Snitch Note. Even if it wasn't Meta or Kipper who were targeted by the Snitch the results would be the same. Kipper could learn the role/alignment of another random person but THEIR name would HAVE to be on the note. It would HAVE to be Meta because Meta was on the note.

 

The Street Performer could change the target of who is Snitched or who gets the Note but regardless someone(Kipper) would get a result about a person and their alignment/role. It is NOT possible for someone to get a Note that has Meta's name and somebody else's role and alignment on it.

 

So unless Alv is messing with us with these hidden roles, or failed in giving a correct result, I've come to the conclusion that either Kipper or Metacognition are lying.

 

If anyone else can think of any other option I'm all ears.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Hellscythe

[Mailliw73 he/him]

Alv, if a Snitch is Blind or redirected to scan a player different than their target, will the name on the note remain the same?

[Alvron he/him]

Alv, if a Snitch is Blind or redirected to scan a player different than their target, will the name on the note remain the same?

The note will always have the name of the one the Snitch targets not the one they are redirected to as they are unaware of the redirection.

 

James the Blind Snitch Scans Martha and wants the read to go to Thomas' pocket.  But due to James's Blindness, he inadvertently Scans Giles.  Then Thomas would get a note that says "Martha is a ???"  The ??? being that of Giles' role barring any other influence.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Alvron
Because of Spelling Police

[Kynedath]

*barring

[Elbereth she/her]

I'd rather have 2 scans on two other people either condemning them because they're evil or proving them because they're innocent than ONLY figure out Meta's alignment which now has a high chance to not even work at all.

That makes sense.

Needless to say, Elbereth, although nobody has died quite yet, it seems a lot more than nothing has happened so far.

You're very right. Although there wasn't as much happening when I posted.

Alvron, in your scenario, does Thomas always get the note? Or could someone else?

EDIT: Formatting.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Elbereth

[Hellscythe he/him]

Alright then disregard my last post.

I'm also going to be disregarding most of the scans made by Snitches even if I get them myself. I think it's likely most if not all of the Snitches are Blind.

Metacognition

I'll instead be voting for Stink for not contributing.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Hellscythe

[Alvron he/him]

Alvron, in your scenario, does Thomas always get the note? Or could someone else?

Phil could've gotten the note if the odds went against James.

[Kynedath]

Alright then disregard my last post.

I'm also going to be disregarding most of the scans made by Snitches even if I get them myself. I think it's likely most if not all of the Snitches are Blind.

Metacognition

I'll instead be voting for Stink for not contributing.

STINK has contributed more than some of the other players, so why do you say he wasn't contributing? He has asked questions and clarified certain subjects even if he hasn't posted any of the possible scenarios that the others seem to be.

[Mailliw73 he/him]

Phatt, is that correct?

 

Shallan. Shallan, I do still really want you to show up or say something, but I don't want to actually vote for you.

 

My gut tells me Meta is good. But I'm also of the opinion that Kipper is(but to a lesser extent than I think Meta is. So I'd rather lynch him than Meta.) Adavantos is supposedly cleared, but I don't trust him all the way yet.

Kipper, can you confirm what I asked Phatt?

[Kipper he/him]

Kipper, can you confirm what I asked Phatt?

Yes, I was just getting to that. The Notes I received did not include side roles.

[Hellscythe he/him]

STINK has contributed more than some of the other players, so why do you say he wasn't contributing? He has asked questions and clarified certain subjects even if he hasn't posted any of the possible scenarios that the others seem to be.

Clarified for him maybe not me. That's not contributing. Contributing would be giving something out. Not taking in. Also him because he seems far more active then the rest not contributing.

 

Also none of this is contributing from my point of view.

 Posted by IrulelikeSTINK on Today, 01:29 PM in Sanderson Elimination

The only thing I'm seeing is an SE Spartan and some good-looking quotes 

 

 Posted by IrulelikeSTINK on Today, 12:55 PM in Sanderson Elimination

Oh, also I told Kip that I would be doing this and I don't break my promises.

 

Kipper.

 

 Posted by IrulelikeSTINK on Today, 12:48 PM in Sanderson Elimination

Why would Kip not get all that sweet info? He's the "Information Broker"

 

 Posted by IrulelikeSTINK on Today, 11:15 AM in Sanderson Elimination

Hi. I was asleep last night.

 

#389571LG16: The Empty Throne Part 2: The Catacombs

 Posted by IrulelikeSTINK on 19 January 2016 - 11:06 AM in Sanderson Elimination

Is there a vote tally?

 

 

So I got voted on by phatt for no reason, made a tired post of '??????????' and went to school. Come back from school, not much really happened. That's a shame. Like the discussion with (basically) Mark v Meta. So yes, I'm clearly here but am not discussing much, 'cause there really isn't much to say that hasn't been said/if I disagreed with hasn't been argued against.

 

 

#388882LG16: The Empty Throne Part 2: The Catacombs

 Posted by IrulelikeSTINK on 18 January 2016 - 12:18 AM in Sanderson Elimination

???????????

 

These are asking for information. He himself is not contributing anything to the thread.

 Posted by IrulelikeSTINK on Today, 03:07 PM in Sanderson Elimination

Then why are you doing an item thing with Phatt?

 Posted by IrulelikeSTINK on Today, 02:44 PM in Sanderson Elimination

So seeing as some people want to keep Meta alive, why don't we Snitch on HS?

 Posted by IrulelikeSTINK on Today, 02:34 PM in Sanderson Elimination

So two Snitchs talking to Kip is bad and stuff but two people following Clanky is okay?

 Posted by IrulelikeSTINK on Today, 02:07 PM in Sanderson Elimination

How does seeing someone do something mean they don't have the CL side role?

Edited January 22, 2016 by Hellscythe

[Kipper he/him]

Clarified for him maybe not me. That's not contributing. Contributing would be giving something out. Not taking in. Also him because he seems far more active then the rest not contributing.

 

Also none of this is contributing from my point of view.

 Posted by IrulelikeSTINK on Today, 01:29 PM in Sanderson Elimination

The only thing I'm seeing is an SE Spartan and some good-looking quotes 

 

 Posted by IrulelikeSTINK on Today, 12:55 PM in Sanderson Elimination

Oh, also I told Kip that I would be doing this and I don't break my promises.

 

Kipper.

 

 Posted by IrulelikeSTINK on Today, 12:48 PM in Sanderson Elimination

Why would Kip not get all that sweet info? He's the "Information Broker"

 

 Posted by IrulelikeSTINK on Today, 11:15 AM in Sanderson Elimination

Hi. I was asleep last night.

 

#389571LG16: The Empty Throne Part 2: The Catacombs

 Posted by IrulelikeSTINK on 19 January 2016 - 11:06 AM in Sanderson Elimination

Is there a vote tally?

 

 

So I got voted on by phatt for no reason, made a tired post of '??????????' and went to school. Come back from school, not much really happened. That's a shame. Like the discussion with (basically) Mark v Meta. So yes, I'm clearly here but am not discussing much, 'cause there really isn't much to say that hasn't been said/if I disagreed with hasn't been argued against.

 

 

#388882LG16: The Empty Throne Part 2: The Catacombs

 Posted by IrulelikeSTINK on 18 January 2016 - 12:18 AM in Sanderson Elimination

???????????

Keep in mind that this isn't necessarily inconsistent for him. And yes, the vote on me was something he said he was going to do last night.

[Kynedath]

Clarified for him maybe not me. That's not contributing. Contributing would be giving something out. Not taking in. Also him because he seems far more active then the rest not contributing.

 

Also none of this is contributing from my point of view.

 Posted by IrulelikeSTINK on Today, 01:29 PM in Sanderson Elimination

The only thing I'm seeing is an SE Spartan and some good-looking quotes 

 

 Posted by IrulelikeSTINK on Today, 12:55 PM in Sanderson Elimination

Oh, also I told Kip that I would be doing this and I don't break my promises.

 

Kipper.

 

 Posted by IrulelikeSTINK on Today, 12:48 PM in Sanderson Elimination

Why would Kip not get all that sweet info? He's the "Information Broker"

 

 Posted by IrulelikeSTINK on Today, 11:15 AM in Sanderson Elimination

Hi. I was asleep last night.

 

#389571LG16: The Empty Throne Part 2: The Catacombs

 Posted by IrulelikeSTINK on 19 January 2016 - 11:06 AM in Sanderson Elimination

Is there a vote tally?

 

 

So I got voted on by phatt for no reason, made a tired post of '??????????' and went to school. Come back from school, not much really happened. That's a shame. Like the discussion with (basically) Mark v Meta. So yes, I'm clearly here but am not discussing much, 'cause there really isn't much to say that hasn't been said/if I disagreed with hasn't been argued against.

 

 

#388882LG16: The Empty Throne Part 2: The Catacombs

 Posted by IrulelikeSTINK on 18 January 2016 - 12:18 AM in Sanderson Elimination

???????????

 

These are asking for information. He himself is not contributing anything to the thread.

 Posted by IrulelikeSTINK on Today, 03:07 PM in Sanderson Elimination

Then why are you doing an item thing with Phatt?

 Posted by IrulelikeSTINK on Today, 02:44 PM in Sanderson Elimination

So seeing as some people want to keep Meta alive, why don't we Snitch on HS?

 Posted by IrulelikeSTINK on Today, 02:34 PM in Sanderson Elimination

So two Snitchs talking to Kip is bad and stuff but two people following Clanky is okay?

 Posted by IrulelikeSTINK on Today, 02:07 PM in Sanderson Elimination

How does seeing someone do something mean they don't have the CL side role?

Alright, I do see what you mean, but looking over the last four, he was asking questions and participating. Although I guess that might be a way to lay low as an eliminator. I just feel like that isn't enough of a conviction. There are players who have barely contributed at all, if at all.

[Shallan she/her]

Sorry I haven't been on yet. I'm having some issues with getting access; i.e. My brother is always on our shar(e)d(heh heh the puns) computer, so I've been relegated to mobile.

I also want to search for an item, so I won't vote.