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Reviving deadspren shardblades?


Garfield

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Right now, the desolation is upon the continent, and so far they have produced one measly Radiant in fighting shape to help humanity. When in the past they had the 10 heralds and probably hundreds of fighting knights.

 

 

 

When Syl said something along the lines that a dead spren is only as dead as the oath it's bound to. That means for me that they are not truly dead as in gone forever but rather suspended in some sort of VERY unpleasant undead limbo state.

 

Couldn't be a way around the shortage of knighs be humans who are willing to speak and uphold the oaths bonding the blades to revive them? It was never anywhere stated that only the specific knight that betrayed the spren can bring the undead spren back to life.

 

I could imagine Adolin making a fine Windrunner.

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While WoB confirmed it would be possible, he has not spoken about the especifics, only saying that speaking the oaths is not enough, and it is somewhat implied it would be an once in a century kind of event, considering how damaged the dead spren are.

On Adolin, his shardblade, which he even speaks with as if he subcounciously knew it was a (half)living being, used to be an Edgedancer spren. The theory he may ressurect it is very popular.

Edited by DreamEternal
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While WoB confirmed it would be possible, he has not spoken about the especifics, onlybsayingbtgat speaking the oaths is not enough,

 

 

No, of course not, judging from the speaking the word scenes in the books you have to speak them while really really meaning it. I doubt uttering the words alone will do anything.

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No, of course not, judging from the speaking the word scenes in the books you have to speak them while really really meaning it. I doubt uttering the words alone will do anything.

By "speaking the oath" we mean the same as the Radiant swearing an oath. What is the matter here that even somebody living by the radiant's code and belief and swearing the oaths wouldn't be enough to revive the dead spren.

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Speaking oaths wont help in the least. Syl was still bound to Kaladin. Shallans spren, Pattern spoke about fixing broken spren. He says that fixing a broken spren requires a large number of spren and a lot of effort. Not a problem for the Cryptics perhaps as they are said to be numerous, but honorspren, who were almost completely wiped out would have more trouble. It also never says that a broken spren, once made whole will be willing to or even capable of bonding again. Using the shardblades seems much simpler a solution. It should also be noted that the desolation this time around will be different from the others, partially because Honor is dead, and more importantly because the Heralds have been rendered inert. With nine abandoning the pact and one suffering thousands of years of hell. A champion will be appointed by both sides and then, perhaps some manner of duel?

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I was under the impression that the only reason, why Syl hadn't ended as a dead shardblade, that at that point when he broke it, their bond had not progressed to where she had turned into a shardblade.

There is a WoB about "If Kaladin broke his Oath now that he spoke the 3th, Syl will end as DeadSpren-Blade"

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I was under the impression that the only reason, why Syl hadn't ended as a dead shardblade, that at that point when he broke it, their bond had not progressed to where she had turned into a shardblade.

 

Yes. We have a WoB which confirms this. Had Kaladin progressed farther than the third oath, she would have been stuck within a Shardblade form. However, reviving a dead-Blade is easy, when you are the original knight: you only have to re-swear the oaths. When someone else tries to do it, it gets complicated.

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 However, reviving a dead-Blade is easy, when you are the original knight: you only have to re-swear the oaths.

 

 

Easy? Saying the words is not enough, you have to mean it. If Kaladin hadn t fundamentally changed his opinion, away from the cynical "people who harm others deserve to die, even if they do it by accident, through their incompetence". Saying the words alone, without the change of mind wouldn t have helped him.

 

He never liked Elhokar in any way, shape or form and thorught of him as an annoying weakling and loser on the throne. Plus he is a lighteyes and we know how Kaladin thinks of those. If I hate and despise someone, changing this view to one where I see that this person is genuinely worth of my protection is not that easy.

Edited by Garfield
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Easy? Saying the words is not enough, you have to mean it. If Kaladin hadn t fundamentally changed his opinion, away from the cynical "people who harm others deserve to die, even if they do it by accident, through their incompetence". Saying the words alone, without the change of mind wouldn t have helped him.

If I hate and despise someone, changing this view to one where I see that this person is genuinely worth of my protection is really HARD.

I think the poster meant easy as in at least easily understandable, defined, and not impossible by any stretch. Reviving a dead Spren when you weren't the original knight is far closer to impossible than changing your heart enough to revive your own Spren.

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Easy? Saying the words is not enough, you have to mean it. If Kaladin hadn t fundamentally changed his opinion, away from the cynical "people who harm others deserve to die, even if they do it by accident, through their incompetence". Saying the words alone, without the change of mind wouldn t have helped him.

 

He never liked Elhokar in any way, shape or form and thorught of him as an annoying weakling and loser on the throne. Plus he is a lighteyes and we know how Kaladin thinks of those. If I hate and despise someone, changing this view to one where I see that this person is genuinely worth of my protection is not that easy.

 

It is considerably more easy than to revive a dead-Blade you weren't previously bonded to. All Kaladin had to do was recalled his previous oaths, which he meant when he said them and add one stating he should protect people he does not like.

 

I am sorry but going through the mental gymnastic killing Elhokar after having taken the oath to protect him simply because he hated him while Syl ranted against it the whole time was far worse than having to figure out it wasn't such a good idea after all. The amount of though process Kaladin went through just to justify his hatred far surpassed what he had to go through to deny it. It was a serious character flaw and not the story's strongest point.

 

Anyway, it wasn't my point. Reviving a dead-Blade requires you to say the oaths (how many no one knows) without having the active direct guidance of a spren. In other words, you have to find oath for an order you ignore everything of without having a Syl who practically forces you to go through the motions. Just that by itself is practically impossible but it does not stop there. You have to to... something more which is still unknown to this point.

 

Both Shallan and Kaladin managed to save their bond after breaking them (not completely in the case of Shallan, but almost).

 

We have yet to see someone revived a dead-Blade.

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II'd agree that it is fundamentally different to revive a dead shard blade because, unless one of the new radiants kills their new blade form spren, the reviver will not yet have a Nahel bond with the (dead) spren through which any interaction can act. It may be that the temporary bond shardbearers have suffices but it seems very different to a true Nahel bond, in which the spren is bound to the human by holding together cracks in their soul. I'd have thought at the very least it would need some powerful external investiture, like a defibrillator of sorts

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  • 2 weeks later...

No. In WoD Syl said that they are 'dead' spren that cannot be revived so long as their owner is dead. Unless you were able to reanimate the Radiant who owned the blade, you could not revive the spren.

 

From what I have gathered, each shardblade is permanently bound to a single Radiant. When a new Radiant is initiated, a new spren that has never been bonded to a human will become a unique shardblade for them. Should they break their oath, the bond is severed, and the spren 'dies.'

 

Presumably, if the spren is in the form of a blade at the time of the betrayal, (or by some other means) the dead spren remains a blade permanently, and can be wielded by anyone who wields it, though to a lesser extent than the original owner.

 

One wouldn't even need to revive the shardblades, as people across Roshar are gaining KR powers/spren, and with the news of the Alethi reforming the order, people will flood into Urithuru seeking to improve their grasp on the power/save the world. On top of that, they have two Honourblades that they can use to give anyone they want Windrunner/Bondsmith powers (though the later is currently held by Dalinar)

EDIT: Dalinar is not the holder of Taln's blade anymore, he is bound to the Stormfather instead, so 2 free KR powers for anyone they choose.

EDIT EDIT: Nevermind, the blade they got from the madman "Taln" was not the one he had when he appeared in Kholinar. That, plus Dalinar hearing screams must mean it's just a regular shardblade. Only 1 free KR power up for grabs. They'll probably just give it to Adolin.

Edited by DemonicSquid
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Im pretty sure in WoB, sanderson said that if a spren that has achieved blade status through oaths were to die that spren would become a blade(sword) because they are based off the original honor blades. Ei if syl were to die she would become a blade not a spear, even if she were in spearform when she died. I hope i worded this appropriatly, if not forgivness please i just woke up

Edit: upon second glance im not even sure that what i wrote applies to the topic. In my sleep fogged eyes i thought squid was trying to say that if a spren died in spear form or other form it would stay that way. Sorry everybody, i need to learn to wait till i am fully awake before i post so as not to confuse people and not make my self look like chull

Edited by stonedshaman
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No. In WoD Syl said that they are 'dead' spren that cannot be revived so long as their owner is dead. Unless you were able to reanimate the Radiant who owned the blade, you could not revive the spren.

 

From what I have gathered, each shardblade is permanently bound to a single Radiant. When a new Radiant is initiated, a new spren that has never been bonded to a human will become a unique shardblade for them. Should they break their oath, the bond is severed, and the spren 'dies.'

 

Presumably, if the spren is in the form of a blade at the time of the betrayal, (or by some other means) the dead spren remains a blade permanently, and can be wielded by anyone who wields it, though to a lesser extent than the original owner.

 

One wouldn't even need to revive the shardblades, as people across Roshar are gaining KR powers/spren, and with the news of the Alethi reforming the order, people will flood into Urithuru seeking to improve their grasp on the power/save the world. On top of that, they have two Honourblades that they can use to give anyone they want Windrunner/Bondsmith powers (though the later is currently held by Dalinar)

EDIT: Dalinar is not the holder of Taln's blade anymore, he is bound to the Stormfather instead, so 2 free KR powers for anyone they choose.

EDIT EDIT: Nevermind, the blade they got from the madman "Taln" was not the one he had when he appeared in Kholinar. That, plus Dalinar hearing screams must mean it's just a regular shardblade. Only 1 free KR power up for grabs. They'll probably just give it to Adolin.

 

There are several WoB which confirms that while it would be horribly difficult, it isn't theoretically impossible by someone else than the original knight to revive a dead-Blade. This being said, it is very likely we aren't going to see massive dead-Blade revival, but some of us hope to see it happen, once. 

 
I personally do not think Adolin will be offered a Honorblade. It is more likely to go to Elhokar.
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Prevailing fan theory seems to be that since Brandon has pointed out several times that it's possible, Adolin will figure out whatever is necessary and revive his current shardblade. Given how he already anthropomorphizes his sword, it really seems likely to be him more than anyone else. Which may imply that the Edgedancers are one of the orders WoB says would have been perfectly okay with his actions at the end of Words of Radiance.

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Prevailing fan theory seems to be that since Brandon has pointed out several times that it's possible, Adolin will figure out whatever is necessary and revive his current shardblade. Given how he already anthropomorphizes his sword, it really seems likely to be him more than anyone else. Which may imply that the Edgedancers are one of the orders WoB says would have been perfectly okay with his actions at the end of Words of Radiance.

 

There is no certainties here. A lot of fans, including myself, believe and hope the story will go this way, but this is not a done deal, far from it. So far Brandon has not disapproved it, so the theory lives, but it could be killed going into the next book. We do not know just yet.

 

I do agree however that if the Blade revival story arc is used, to have another character than Adolin do it would be horribly anti-climatic.

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Didn't mean to imply it's a definite thing, just that if it happens it sure looks like it's pointing towards Adolin being the one to do it for the reason you bring up. :D

 

I know you didn't. I just wanted to re-state it  :D

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Didn't mean to imply it's a definite thing, just that if it happens it sure looks like it's pointing towards Adolin being the one to do it for the reason you bring up. :D

 

Can't help but agree, the set-up is pretty clear.

 

And let's be honest, who doesn't want to see Adolin bringing his shardblade back to life?  :lol:  The very scene has the Awesome potential of Szeth vs. Kaladin fight.

 

EDIT for a potentially-stupid idea: as we know there are Nalthisians on Roshar (Vasher/Zahel and Nightblood), how about using Breaths to Awaken the blade as some sort of spren-Lifeless or Type IV? Would this be even possible?

Edited by Rasarr
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