Kelsier vs Elend

[Toaster Retribution]

If they were to fight, with only the metals Kelsier knew of (no duralumin, etc), and with the same amounts of metals, then who would win? 

[Caevita]

Well, by all accounts Elend was stronger, in the objective sense.  Kell's strength with iron and steel was better than anyone we've seen thus far, though.  I would give Elend the edge, but this one could easily go either way, since Kell has much more experience than Elend, even at the end of the 3rd book.  Unless, of course, you're talking about 1st book Elend.  

[Yata]

If Kelsier knows of the Elend's Strenght and with the same metal in their stomach.

To me Kelsier win this fight because if He can't defeat Elend with skill (and Elend isn't a great warrior), he may simply buy time and wait for Elend to burn out of metals (remember that Elend consume quite the double amount of metal than kelsier).

[Toaster Retribution]

 Unless, of course, you're talking about 1st book Elend.  

Nope. Its third book :-)

 

We all know 1st book Elend would destroy everyone 

[DreamEternal]

Nope. Its third book :-)

We all know 1st book Elend would destroy everyone

He did kill a Koloss without much trouble in book two...

[baby]

If Kelsier knows of the Elend's Strenght and with the same metal in their stomach.

To me Kelsier win this fight because if He can't defeat Elend with skill (and Elend isn't a great warrior), he may simply buy time and wait for Elend to burn out of metals (remember that Elend consume quite the double amount of metal than kelsier).

Where does it say Elend burns through metals faster? He gets more power from the metal itself iirc.

[Voidus]

Kel wins hands down. He's fought Inquisitors and won without even knowing about their weakness and they'd have been stronger than him in Steel at least. (Or some of them anyway) He'd likely just avoid getting into pushing matches.

[AerionBFII]

Elend is stronger but really Kelsier is more naturally gifted with quicker reactions and seriously... as if he'd fight fair anyway haha

[Wubdor]

I'd argue this is not even up for debate. Kelsier would destroy Elend. He knows the dangers of fighting someone who is stronger than him and would exploit Elend's lack of experience. (Elend would probably also really count on his superior raw power and end up underestimating Kelsier's skill, no matter how many times he's been told how amazing he was.)

[Yata]

Where does it say Elend burns through metals faster? He gets more power from the metal itself iirc.

The amount of Allomantic Power that an Allomancer may develop of an amount of metal is constant.

The Difference between the "Allomantic Strenght" of an Allomancer is just "how fast" can burn the metals.

Elend has no experience to "burn low" his metals and therefore if K&E have the same amount of metals avaliable and Kelsier buy time, probably Elend remains out of metals while Kelsier has some metals left.

[Kestrel]

Kelsier would win, hands down. In what world does raw strength beat years and years of practice and mastery?

[Oversleep]

The amount of Allomantic Power that an Allomancer may develop of an amount of metal is constant.

The Difference between the "Allomantic Strenght" of an Allomancer is just "how fast" can burn the metals.

Elend has no experience to "burn low" his metals and therefore if K&E have the same amount of metals avaliable and Kelsier buy time, probably Elend remains out of metals while Kelsier has some metals left.

Where did you get that from? Lerasiumborn gets more power than average Allomancer from the same amount of metal. (I believe allomantic strength goes TLR -> Lerasiumborn -> 100% potential Mistborn (Vin) -> Mistborn -> Misting).

Vin notices Elend's Pushes way stronger than those of normal Allomancer, but makes no comment about him needing more metals because of his increased metalbolism. Therefore, his burning rate is normal, but he gets more power from it.

Metalbolism

 

[Yata]

Where did you get that from? Lerasiumborn gets more power than average Allomancer from the same amount of metal. (I believe allomantic strength goes TLR -> Lerasiumborn -> 100% potential Mistborn (Vin) -> Mistborn -> Misting).

Vin notices Elend's Pushes way stronger than those of normal Allomancer, but makes no comment about him needing more metals because of his increased metalbolism. Therefore, his burning rate is normal, but he gets more power from it.

Metalbolism

 

There is a WoB about, but I can't find it at the moment. But someone ask this to Mr. Sanderson and recive this answer.

It's about the metal as a "power-limitator". An Allomancer may drawn power to the quite endless Preservation's power. Without any "control" an Allomancer will destroy himself with the power (it's what happen when an Allomancer slowly became a Savant).

Any Allomancer gain the same power from a bead of metal but they can uses a stronger allomancer may burn a bead of metal in less time and therefore gain more power/time.

Edited December 13, 2015 by Yata

[Voidus]

There is a WoB about, but I can't find it at the moment. But someone ask this to Mr. Sanderson and recive this answer.

It's about the metal as a "power-limitator". An Allomancer may drawn power to the quite endless Preservation's power. Without any "control" an Allomancer will destroy himself with the power (it's what happen when an Allomancer slowly became a Savant).

Any Allomancer gain the same power from a bead of metal but they can uses a stronger allomancer may burn a bead of metal in less time and therefore gain more power/time.

I don't remember any WoB like that, I know the one you're talking about with becoming a Savant but that didn't say anything about Allomancers having a different burn rate.

[SmurfAquamarineBodies]

Let's not forget that Elend was going out and soloing whole armies of Koloss. So Elend wasn't exactly a beginner when it came to fighting. I know people will state that he was uncertain if he would win against the Inquisitor at the start of the book but the Inquisitors in book three were stronger than the Inquisitors of book one.

 

Like I agree that Kelsier was more skilled but it would take him time to adjust to Elends massive Pushing power, and he would probably dismiss him because he is so new.

 

As to who I think would win, I would give the edge to Kelsier. But it would be a good fight. 

 

 

The real question is could book three Vin take them both on at once? 

[Stormgate]

Yes, especially at the end. Although, she wouldn't be able to destroy either of them due to Preservation's power, but as far as power goes, she went lightyears past Elend on duralumin.

[Kaymyth]

Kelsier should probably win.  But he'd be close to finishing it up, and then he'd catch the look on Vin's face and realize that it'd be a lot less hazardous to his health if he just threw the fight and let Elend win.

[Voidus]

Let's not forget that Elend was going out and soloing whole armies of Koloss. So Elend wasn't exactly a beginner when it came to fighting. I know people will state that he was uncertain if he would win against the Inquisitor at the start of the book but the Inquisitors in book three were stronger than the Inquisitors of book one.

 

Like I agree that Kelsier was more skilled but it would take him time to adjust to Elends massive Pushing power, and he would probably dismiss him because he is so new.

 

As to who I think would win, I would give the edge to Kelsier. But it would be a good fight. 

 

 

The real question is could book three Vin take them both on at once? 

He fought fine against non-Allomancers but he wasn't quite soloing the armies. Not a beginner but not up to Kel's level.

Kel fought against Inquisitors and they have enhanced Pushing power, I don't think it'd be that much of a problem.

Vin could take both of them and book three Marsh all at once. By sheer force of awesome if nothing else.

Vin> Everyone.

[Plaeggs]

Kelsier would win, hands down. In what world does raw strength beat years and years of practice and mastery?

Technically, Kell only had 2 years, but that does not change the nature of your argument. Kell's specialty was Iron and Steel, and honestly, Poor Elend, though strong, would need to have Vin-level allomantic instincts to defeat him. (Which he doesn't, they're called vin-level for a reason)

[Stormgate]

Vin invented and perfected her horseshoe method in a few minutes, she is unnaturally skilled with metals.

[Eagle of the Forest Path]

I don't remember any WoB like that, I know the one you're talking about with becoming a Savant but that didn't say anything about Allomancers having a different burn rate.

 Yata's actually talking about another WoB (which I can't find again either btw curses!) but it basically says that Elend has more powerful allomancy than Vin because he can burn his metals faster.

There's also another one that says the amount of power you can get from a piece of metal is constant.

[Stormgate]

That makes sense, since duralumin and presumably chromium basically overload you on metal, even specifically mentioning how it simply accelerates burn rate, burning all the metal at once. It's like the difference between letting a little gasoline into the engine, which propels the car, and lighting the gas tank on fire, blowing it up.

[Kadrok]

 Yata's actually talking about another WoB (which I can't find again either btw curses!) but it basically says that Elend has more powerful allomancy than Vin because he can burn his metals faster.

There's also another one that says the amount of power you can get from a piece of metal is constant.

We'll still need a source on that.

 

Regarding the OP... you know, the MAG has statted out Elend and Kelsier. It's not the same as the "real" thing, but maybe we should try it out? From memory Elend has a higher starting rating (Mighty level) than any of the other Mistborn, but he hasn't "leveled it up" like the others, so Kelsier has a heap of stunts unlocked.

 

Instinctually I'm going to say Kelsier wins, either in MAG or otherwise.

[Stormgate]

Of course we want Kelsier to win. Elend is lime our pet dog, he can do stuff and is capable of being independent, but we like him more for sentimental reasons. Kelsier is our champion, the one who sacrificed himself for the destruction of the Empire. He is, deep down, our hero. I don't know about anyone else, but Elend struck me as more of a king, less of a hero.

[Kadrok]

Of course we want Kelsier to win. Elend is lime our pet dog, he can do stuff and is capable of being independent, but we like him more for sentimental reasons. Kelsier is our champion, the one who sacrificed himself for the destruction of the Empire. He is, deep down, our hero. I don't know about anyone else, but Elend struck me as more of a king, less of a hero.

I was thinking more practically. Kelsier actually had a training montage with Gemmel. Kelsier has all the potential in the world, but the world is ending and he's the guy in charge, so he has no time to really develop. To be honest I want Elend to win... I identified far more with him than Kelsier* I just don't think he would. But my position is distorted somewhat by having seen them statted in the MAG. Kelsier's stunts top Elends extra power ratings.

 

* it was actually quite funny. I prefer identifying with the people with powers, and so my being most like Elend was not without it's "awww man, I wanted to identify with the guy with powers" aspect. And then he got powers and all my Christmases came at once.