Mid-Range Game 10: Divided Loyalties

[Elbereth she/her]

If my eyebrows could fly off of my face, they would be on the moon by now.

...I have things to do right now, so I can't respond fully, but this seems very fair to me. Also, has the Bondsmith come out to anyone or used Adhesion on anyone? Adavantos, obviously you're not obliged to answer this, but do you have the Bondsmith on your team? Because I think the alternate win con would be the way to go here (sorry dead players).

...Um. Yeah. That's...wow. Thanks for trying to keep the game balanced, and also for trying to cause discussion (which this really should, though it hasn't as yet for some strange reason).

I'll be back to discuss more later, once I get my eyebrows back from the moon.

[Amanuensis he/him]

...I have things to do right now, so I can't respond fully, but this seems very fair to me. Also, has the Bondsmith come out to anyone or used Adhesion on anyone? Adavantos, obviously you're not obliged to answer this, but do you have the Bondsmith on your team? Because I think the alternate win con would be the way to go here (sorry dead players).

 

No, the Bondsmith is/was not on our team.

 

...Um. Yeah. That's...wow. Thanks for trying to keep the game balanced, and also for trying to cause discussion (which this really should, though it hasn't as yet for some strange reason).

 

Don't mention it. No matter what side I'm on I love to help discussion along and for a similar reason I didn't want to win LG15a the way we did I just don't feel comfortable letting things go on so far stacked in our favor.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Adavantos

[Kynedath]

uhhhh . . . . huh. well . . . ok then. sooo . . . wait what? You are saying that to make the game fair, you are going to sacrifice yourself as an evil player . . . because of the christmas spirit? You are trying to strike a deal to feed us information in exchange for your survival, knowing that at any time, we can kill you. . . . huh.

 

This is a list of the pros and cons that I see with leaving him alive.

 

Cons:

• An innocent inactive dies every cycle.
• He could be lying and kill one of the most influencial people in the discussion.
• He could be lying altogether and not be a cook, or even a diagrammist.
• we keep a potentially false source of information around to feed us potentially false ideas and leads.
• The diagrammists claim to have a consience.

 

Pros:

• We get more information.
• We retain the right to kill him at any time.
• We keep a contributing, albeit fairly untrustworthy, player in the discussion.
• We might get more information about other diagrammists
• We find out more about Adavantos and if he is lying or not

 

Another thing to think about is independant initiative.

If there is a cook who does not want us to take the deal, but we take it anyways, then he could just kill Adavantos by poisoning his food. On the other hand, if he is truly in friendly contact with a surgeon, then he might protect Adavantos. We don't know what other people will do.

 

I, for one, am alright with this arrangement. I feel we need more information than we have and I don't see why killing inactives would harm us. The only problem that I have with this is that I don't know if Adavantos will actually kill inactives or go back on his word and kill contributors. This should provoke discussion , if just so that people make themselves less of a target.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Kynedath

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

Well, I'm on mobile right now, so I'll look over Adas posts later and post more then. All I have to say right now is, silly Ada, feeling sorry for your enemies. I'm not sure whether we should kill him or not. I think we probably should.

 

Thinking back on things, his reveal does basically clear a few of the dead such as his Cook targets, and Alvron(I thought there was at least 1 Diagrammist involved in his lynch).

 

Edit: ninja'd

 

Can we choose which inactives you kill, Ada? 

Edited December 24, 2015 by TheMightyLopen

[Tony Shark he/him]

oops! I didn't get on to edit my post, I was supposed to be quoting instead but I messed up on mobile

 

In fairness to the game thank you...? I have a lot of reading to catch up/look over now.

[Amanuensis he/him]

uhhhh . . . . huh. well . . . ok then. sooo . . . wait what? You are saying that to make the game fair, you are going to sacrifice yourself as an evil player . . . because of the christmas spirit? You are trying to strike a deal to feed us information in exchange for your survival, knowing that at any time, we can kill you. . . . huh.

 

...

 

I, for one, am alright with this arrangement. I feel we need more information than we have and I don't see why killing inactives would harm us. The only problem that I have with this is that I don't know if Adavantos will actually kill inactives or go back on his word and kill contributors. This should provoke discussion , if just so that people make themselves less of a target.

 

Interesting, isn't it? This game seemed to be stalling, so I figured that by proposing this it might make things a bit more fun for everyone. Though I said in the spirit of the holidays, not Christmas (I'm PC bro, I'll throw down!). That being said, I'll leave the rest of this discussion to everyone else.

 

Well, I'm on mobile right now, so I'll look over Adas posts later and post more then. All I have to say right now is, silly Ada, feeling sorry for your enemies. I'm not sure whether we should kill him or not. I think we probably should.

 

Emphasis mine.

 

Nice-Guy-Ada transcends all alignments.

[RippleGylf she/her]

Wow. O.O I think for the time being we should keep Ada alive. If we disagree with his kills, then we just lynch him. Problem solved.

[Amanuensis he/him]

Edit: ninja'd

 

Can we choose which inactives you kill, Ada? 

 

Didn't see the edit until now. Short answer is no. I'm going to kill who I want. That isn't a part of a deal. The deal is I kill whatever inactive I wish in exchange for you guys deciding whose alignment you want to be told.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Adavantos

[Paranoid King he/him]

In the spirit of revealing things, I'll reveal that my previous scan of Sart was wrong, and that he is actually a diagrammist elsecaller.

The above is all lies. All of my revealed scans so far have been the truth. I wonder who reads white text.

Happy Diagrammist hunting!

[Kynedath]

In the spirit of revealing things, I'll reveal that my previous scan of Sart was wrong, and that he is actually a diagrammist elsecaller.

The above is all lies. All of my revealed scans so far have been the truth. I wonder who reads white text.

Happy Diagrammist hunting!

That makes absolutely no sense. Ada claims that the diagrammists sent him out because two scholars died. The diagrammists would have known if one of their own had died and if they were a scholar or not.

 

Either PK or Ada are lying. Adavantos could just be trying to draw people out of hiding to join the discussion, or else PK is trying to mislead us. Guys we need input. I feel like there are two to three people driving the conversation and the rest put in their two cents every half a cycle. We need to bounce ideas and figure out who is telling the truth. I am inclined to believe that PK is lying due to his erratic behavior as well as previous suspicions.

[Paranoid King he/him]

I have something else to say about my previous post, but I'm waiting until tomorrow to say it to see how people respond.

[Clanky he/him]

That makes absolutely no sense. Ada claims that the diagrammists sent him out because two scholars died. The diagrammists would have known if one of their own had died and if they were a scholar or not.

 

Either PK or Ada are lying. Adavantos could just be trying to draw people out of hiding to join the discussion, or else PK is trying to mislead us. Guys we need input. I feel like there are two to three people driving the conversation and the rest put in their two cents every half a cycle. We need to bounce ideas and figure out who is telling the truth. I am inclined to believe that PK is lying due to his erratic behavior as well as previous suspicions.

You should maybe read the white text in PKs post. 

 

 

So I have a PM with Ada and he suggested killing an inactive ghostblood. So I suggested Polking which he chose to ignore and go for Shallan instead. 

 

In the Spirit of giving that has come over this game I will say that I am the surgeon who protected Venture the first turn. Ada knows this already so best if everyone else knows too. 

[Feligon he/him]

We're really going to get a diagramist just like that?  All gift wrapped with a bow on top?

 

a claim like that hast to seem suspicious no matter what it is, but villagers have nothing to gain by claiming eliminator.  Just very confusing.

 

Anyway, I haven't been active very much because my internet shuts off at 10 now, so I don't have much time to post in thread anymore.  My brother is also using the computer most of the time when I'm not at work, so My computer access is a bit dodgy,  sorry about that.

 

I guess there's no sense in not voting for Adavantos.  Even though I somehow still think it's a trap.

Edited December 26, 2015 by Feligon

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

Didn't see the edit until now. Short answer is no. I'm going to kill who I want. That isn't a part of a deal. The deal is I kill whatever inactive I wish in exchange for you guys deciding whose alignment you want to be told.

 

But last Cycle you said you'd accept votes for your kill. *Gasp* Does that mean you were lying? 

 

You should maybe read the white text in PKs post. 

 

 

So I have a PM with Ada and he suggested killing an inactive ghostblood. So I suggested Polking which he chose to ignore and go for Shallan instead. 

 

In the Spirit of giving that has come over this game I will say that I am the surgeon who protected Venture the first turn. Ada knows this already so best if everyone else knows too. 

 

While I agree polking is inactive, he doesn't seem to be the best choice. Maybe Phattemer or DeathClutch, since they seem to be lurking a bit. I'll go with Phattemer, since Ada almost killed DeathClutch last Cycle. I don't think that clears DeathClutch completely, but I'm inclined to think DC is innocent because of that. Anything else seems convoluted and unnecessary.

 

I'm gonna try to get a post up with my suspicions/trusts/thoughts in a few hours, when I have the time to go over Ada's posts and interactions. I might possibly change my vote then, as part of the reason we haven't had lynch discussion is because we've been talking about inactives so much.

[Elkanah he/him]

But last Cycle you said you'd accept votes for your kill. *Gasp* Does that mean you were lying? 

 

If I remember correctly, he said we could vote in who he revealed as village or diagrammist, not on who he poisoned. For now, I like that option as he kills inactives. Two benefits we gain therefrom are: 1 we have lost half of our scholars so having another confirmed scholar may be crucial, and 2 it encourages more people to be active. It was mostly due to adavantos that I posted at all in lg15 when I was a traitor because I knew lurking would get me killed. Plus we can always lynch him if he kills someone we agree was too far.

The downside to keeping him around is when it gets down to a numbers game, and we can't spare the deaths.

 

While I agree polking is inactive, he doesn't seem to be the best choice. Maybe Phattemer or DeathClutch, since they seem to be lurking a bit. I'll go with Phattemer, since Ada almost killed DeathClutch last Cycle. I don't think that clears DeathClutch completely, but I'm inclined to think DC is innocent because of that. Anything else seems convoluted and unnecessary.

 

I'm still suspicious of Deathclutch as well. When we the last time he or Phattemer was on?

You should maybe read the white text in PKs post. 

 

So I have a PM with Ada and he suggested killing an inactive ghostblood. So I suggested Polking which he chose to ignore and go for Shallan instead. 

 

In the Spirit of giving that has come over this game I will say that I am the surgeon who protected Venture the first turn. Ada knows this already so best if everyone else knows too.

Can you give us any other information from your pm? Is there anyone Adavantos has defended or gone after? Specifically what did he say yesterday regarding the lynch?

Interesting, isn't it? This game seemed to be stalling, so I figured that by proposing this it might make things a bit more fun for everyone. Though I said in the spirit of the holidays, not Christmas (I'm PC bro, I'll throw down!). That being said, I'll leave the rest of this discussion to everyone else.

 

Nice-Guy-Ada transcends all alignments.

Thank you Adavantos. I think this presents a fun challenge. You've kind of taken the role of the HI of this game.

Sorry for jumping around, I've only have a phone to view and post with and this is my first attempt to respond to several posts at once.

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

If I remember correctly, he said we could vote in who he revealed as village or diagrammist, not on who he poisoned. For now, I like that option as he kills inactives. Two benefits we gain therefrom are: 1 we have lost half of our scholars so having another confirmed scholar may be crucial, and 2 it encourages more people to be active. It was mostly due to adavantos that I posted at all in lg15 when I was a traitor because I knew lurking would get me killed. Plus we can always lynch him if he kills someone we agree was too far.

The downside to keeping him around is when it gets down to a numbers game, and we can't spare the deaths.

 

I'm still suspicious of Deathclutch as well. When we the last time he or Phattemer was on?

Can you give us any other information from your pm? Is there anyone Adavantos has defended or gone after? Specifically what did he say yesterday regarding the lynch?

Thank you Adavantos. I think this presents a fun challenge. You've kind of taken the role of the HI of this game.

Sorry for jumping around, I've only have a phone to view and post with and this is my first attempt to respond to several posts at once.

 

Well, I was referring to Ada's post last Cycle where he said he was going to kill Feligon because of inactivity and him being a GB. Twas only a joke though.

 

As for keeping Ada around, we will kill him eventually. It's not like we're going to wait that long. Not only is he another kill for the Diagrammists, but he's a pretty smart guy, so by killing him, we would hamper the Diagrammists ability to discuss strategies and stuff. If we keep him alive for a little longer, we can get confirmation about some players if we want. We would be losing 2 innocents each Cycle(unless they get protected), but we would know that at least 1 of them is inactive, so it wouldn't be a terrible loss I don't think. 

 

I actually was saying DC was not suspicious because Ada almost got him lynched last Cycle, if it hadn't been for the Ardent that moved a vote to Feligon. Here's the last online times for DC, Phattemer and polking.

 

DC- about 4 days ago.

Phatt- about 4 hours ago.

polking- about 5 days ago.

 

So Phattemer is the one who is the most suspicious to me out of those 3, since he has been on, but has not participated. At least, not that we know of. 

[Zas678 he/him]

I also have something to reveal!

 

So I've targeted Creccio the past 2 days, and my attack didn't register either day. This means that she has to be an Elsecaller. I've been keeping my eyes on her for a while now, ever since I noticed that when she originally posted the list of Son Of Honor Roles, she missed a name, but had it edited without a comment a few moments later- to me it seems like she deliberated with her team that she was going to do it, put it up, then her team noticed she was missing a name and asked her to fix it. Or it could've been just her re-going over it. But either way.

 

When I originally attacked her cycle 4, she was still "away". She only said she was back on cycle 5, but her ability was engaged. I know that I lurked a lot more, consulting on the dead doc and PMing the GMs more when I'm an eliminator than when I'm a citizen.

 

Also, we're pretty sure that the Diagramists have an Elsecaller, and so we've got a 50-50 shot of Creccio being the Elsecaller that (at least) made Sart the Diagramist Bondsmith on Cycle 2. 

 

As for Adavantos, good for you. Thanks for trying to help out. Although out of all the players, I had you pegged as a non-Diagramist. That's what I get for assuming. But since you seem to be cooperating, and since I'm suspicious of Creccio, I'm voting Creccio.

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

Creccio. Phattemer. Reasoning? Scroll up.    

 

Sorry to do this, but I'm gonna have to postpone my suspicions/trusts/paranoid thoughts post at the moment in favor of sleep. I fingers crossed promise to post it tomorrow.   I'm gonna try to do a post about each living player if I can. With the limited info, it might not be too in depth, but with Ada's reveal, it does shine a little bit of light on things I think. I encourage everyone else to post their thoughts about what Ada's reveal could mean as well. Hopefully we can use this info to pull out a victory........ for Ghostbloods.

One thing I was thinking about with Ada's alignment in mind is Venture. I personally think he is innocent and that Ada pushed for his death because of his habitual inactivity, because that seems like something Ada would do. Assuming that, it does seem that Clanky might be innocent as well for protecting Venture(assuming he's telling the truth about things, which is likely I think). It could also be said that the attack on Venture was a WGG and maybe Ada was trying to get Venture more involved or something, and that Clanky is the one who protected Ada on the 2nd Cycle, therefore Venture and Clanky are evil too. But I'm leaning towards the first scenario as being true.

 

Edit: spacing

Edited December 24, 2015 by TheMightyLopen

[Curious Anamaximder he/him]

Creccio.[/color=red] Just look up. Fair enough reasons.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Venture Mistborn

[Haelbarde he/him]

[color=red] Creccio.[/color=red]

The closing bracket should be

[/color]

for it to work. Edited December 24, 2015 by Haelbarde

[Bort he/him]

Ho ho ho!!!

I'm out for the next few days with family. Merry Christmas all.

[Paranoid King he/him]

You should maybe read the white text in PKs post.

Exactly. I figured the three possible options related to Adavantos' post were:

 

1. He is a diagrammist and is taking pity on us for being inactive.

2. He is a diagrammist and is trying to trick us or distract us somehow.

3. He is a villager who is trying to drum up some activity.

 

I decided to test how observant people are, because if people are inactive and don't analyze previous posts, options 1 and 3 are much more likely.

Based on his tone, though, I'm inclined to believe he is a diagrammist who took pity on us. If he really does reveal a diagrammist each cycle, I vote that we keep him around for a few cycles. He'll encourage discussion by killing inactives, and he'll give us vital information on who to kill. I vote that we scan PK, to put suspicions to rest once and for all.

 

Edit: Also, Creccio, because everyone else is voting for her with logical and not at all bandwagonish reasons.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Paranoid King

[Amanuensis he/him]

I decided to test how observant people are, because if people are inactive and don't analyze previous posts, options 1 and 3 are much more likely.

Based on his tone, though, I'm inclined to believe he is a diagrammist who took pity on us. If he really does reveal a diagrammist each cycle, I vote that we keep him around for a few cycles. He'll encourage discussion by killing inactives, and he'll give us vital information on who to kill. I vote that we scan PK, to put suspicions to rest once and for all

 

Emphasis mine.

 

To clarify, I will only reveal the alignment of dead players. Not one that's currently living.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Adavantos

[RippleGylf she/her]

Well, I'm not liking the Creccio bandwagon. I would have to double-check, but I wonder if this is almost purely faction-based. So, Lopen, for truly starting the bandwagon. Technically, zas threw in the first vote, but it takes followers to bandwagon, and Lopen was the first.

Edited December 24, 2015 by RippleGylf

[Amanuensis he/him]

Well, I'm not liking the Creccio bandwagon. I would have to double-check, but I wonder if this is almost purely faction-based. So, Lopen, for truly starting the bandwagon. Technically, zas threw in the first vote, but it takes followers to bandwagon, and Lopen was the first.

 

Now that's what I'm talking about. Lopen is a vote I can get behind.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Adavantos