grinachu Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 Ah, what you are thinking of is the quote where they wanted to build Urithiru in the West so it could be closest to Honor It is indeed a chapter heading. pg 519 WoK Isn't Shinovar in the west? The Shin definitely follow cultivation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOM1else Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 Isn't Shinovar in the west? The Shin definitely follow cultivation. If the Shin are following a shard then it would be Honor. Szeth allways thinks about how he has to be an Assassin because his honor demands it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyRioter Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 I don't think we know enough about the Shin to be sure of which Shard, if any, they venerate/follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grinachu Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 I don't think we know enough about the Shin to be sure of which Shard, if any, they venerate/follow. wow, I didn't think this was a controversial proposal. ok herewith some quotes to back it up. "There is no greatness in killing,", Szeth said. "You speak like a kukori. Great men create food and clothing. He who adds is to be revered. I am he who takes away. At least in the killing of men such as these I can pretend to be doing a service". (missing page numbers on kindle for some reason sorry). It's I-6 A Work of Art chapter. "Shin are a curious folk," he said. "Here, warriors are the lowliest of men- kind of like slaves. Men trade and sel them between houses by way of little stones that signify ownership, and any man who picks up a weapon must join them and be treated the same. The fellow in the fancy robe? He's a farmer.... "Rysn gaped "But most villages are filled with farmers!" "Indeed, Vstim said. Holy places, here. Foreigners aren't allowed near fields or farming villages". Now all this chimes fairly well with a shard called Cultivation and it's associated theology don't you think? I also suspect, all there is rather less proof for this that the Horneater culture where the first born becomes a farmer and the second a trader, is also Cultivation influenced at least, but there's rather less evidence for this at the moment. There is one curiosity: the Shin seem to worship "He who adds", rather than the feminine Cultivation that Honor refers to. Sorry, didn't mean to threadjack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truthless Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 Ah, what you are thinking of is the quote where they wanted to build Urithiru in the West so it could be closest to Honor It is indeed a chapter heading. pg 519 WoK Oh, there it is. Thank goodness for people that know the text. I was going in quite the wrong direction. That's SO INTERESTING though, since the Highstorms seem to have something to do with Honor, and the Origin is in the far, far east. I don't have a clue what it means. But it's really interesting xD. I honestly hadn't associated the Shin with Honor before, but it seems obvious now. And we still don't know where Cultivation is - if she's anywhere. I guess that's a possibility. Shards wouldn't have to be centered anywhere, would they? Although I would think Cultivation would gravitate away from the presence of Odium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeatherWriter Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 Well, speaking of where shards are centered, from what we've seen, there are multiple aspects of each shard. The cognitive aspect is referred to as a nexus, and is mobile, but physical aspects (AKA sources of power) such as the Well of Ascension, Pits of Hathsin, and "The Lake" from Elantris seem to be more permanent. It is possible that Cultivation and/or Honor is situated in the West, possibly Shinovar, while Odium is centered in the East at the Origin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zas678 Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 In fact, it seems so permanent, that TLR found it easier to change the landscape to build Luthadel on top of the WoA, rather than just moving the WoA. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeldaDad Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 In fact, it seems so permanent, that TLR found it easier to change the landscape to build Luthadel on top of the WoA, rather than just moving the WoA. That's a very good point. One I'd overlooked. I reeeeeealy need to reread most of Brandon's books soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonko the Sane Posted April 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 It's on page 668 of 1036 in my ebook edition. It's Kaladin riding the storm just before the aged face tells him Odium reigns. Kaladin specifically observes that war was far less prevalent in the west than in the east. No matter what your stance on this point (I personally disagree), This is quite remarkable? Why is Odium's power to cause dissension centered only on the East? wow, I didn't think this was a controversial proposal. ok herewith some quotes to back it up. "There is no greatness in killing,", Szeth said. "You speak like a kukori. Great men create food and clothing. He who adds is to be revered. I am he who takes away. At least in the killing of men such as these I can pretend to be doing a service". (missing page numbers on kindle for some reason sorry). It's I-6 A Work of Art chapter. "Shin are a curious folk," he said. "Here, warriors are the lowliest of men- kind of like slaves. Men trade and sel them between houses by way of little stones that signify ownership, and any man who picks up a weapon must join them and be treated the same. The fellow in the fancy robe? He's a farmer.... "Rysn gaped "But most villages are filled with farmers!" "Indeed, Vstim said. Holy places, here. Foreigners aren't allowed near fields or farming villages". Now all this chimes fairly well with a shard called Cultivation and it's associated theology don't you think? I also suspect, all there is rather less proof for this that the Horneater culture where the first born becomes a farmer and the second a trader, is also Cultivation influenced at least, but there's rather less evidence for this at the moment. There is one curiosity: the Shin seem to worship "He who adds", rather than the feminine Cultivation that Honor refers to. Sorry, didn't mean to threadjack. I agree that Shinovar, being a culture excessively obsessed with agriculture, as well as the only place on Roshar capable of conventional farming, is the prime candidate for the seat of power of a godess whose very name is Cultivation. With respect to every alternative, the existence of some vague hints toward other options does not deny the overpowering connection here. Oh, there it is. Thank goodness for people that know the text. I was going in quite the wrong direction. That's SO INTERESTING though, since the Highstorms seem to have something to do with Honor, and the Origin is in the far, far east. I don't have a clue what it means. But it's really interesting xD. I honestly hadn't associated the Shin with Honor before, but it seems obvious now. And we still don't know where Cultivation is - if she's anywhere. I guess that's a possibility. Shards wouldn't have to be centered anywhere, would they? Although I would think Cultivation would gravitate away from the presence of Odium. If you read the post on highstorms, my madcap theory is that Honor/Tanavast's body is actually pulling the highstorms into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeatherWriter Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 First off, Endra, your Avvie is awesome. Cale for the win! I'm under the impression that the highstorms are of some kind of interaction between Honor and Odium that we haven't seen in the other books. This is something new. I think Wonko's is probably the one I'm most likely to believe at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeldaDad Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 First off, Endra, your Avvie is awesome. Cale for the win! Hell yeah! I would really rather have one of Cale FWOOSHing either with the aid of Richard or with his reforged sword. But alas, they did not have that as an option. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zas678 Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 First off, Endra, your Avvie is awesome. Cale for the win! I'm under the impression that the highstorms are of some kind of interaction between Honor and Odium that we haven't seen in the other books. This is something new. I think Wonko's is probably the one I'm most likely to believe at the moment. I know! Because the strength of Highstorms seem to have some correlation with the amount of War in the area (In the west, where storms are weaker, there are less wars, the Purelake has weaker storms and less fighting, etc), and yet Stormlight seems to power things of Honor (Honorspren). Perhaps there is something else from Highstorms that leads to influence of Odium. Crem perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grinachu Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 (edited) No matter what your stance on this point (I personally disagree), This is quite remarkable? Why is Odium's power to cause dissension centered only on the East? If you read the post on highstorms, my madcap theory is that Honor/Tanavast's body is actually pulling the highstorms into it. Maybe I'm being obtuse but I can't put my finger on where exactly you disagree with me. I haven't read the post on highstorms, but isn't it the case that Urithiru was built westward in the place closest to Honor? The problem with dawnshard= body of Honor is that dawnshards sound more magical than Honorblades from the way Honor talks about them, and the Honor blades themselves were weapons of power beyond shardblades. Clearly a lot of Honor's power went into the creation of weapons, which makes the dawnshards even more crucial. Like the basic problem I have with the missing years between Nohadon and the present day is- what the hell happened? At one point humanity was basically being halved every time the Desolations came. And in the present day that threat just evaporated. Somewhere in between something must have happened that protected humanity. The consistent narrative of the descent/fall of man doesn't make sense because if humanity lost at the Final Desolation and lost at the Recreance (which occurred after Nohadon). How come mankind is still standing?. What happened to the threat of the Unmade for instance, how did the parshmen lose their music and become slaves of mankind. The answer must be the dawnshards which can bind any creature. Edited April 21, 2011 by grinachu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link Von Kelsier Harvey Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 I think the reason mankind is still standing is that Odium realized that constant adversity just made men band together and actually made them stronger. Leave them alone for a few centuries though, and they start squabbling and killing each other. And that's exactly what happened. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zas678 Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 How come mankind is still standing?. What happened to the threat of the Unmade for instance, how did the parshmen lose their music and become slaves of mankind. The answer must be the dawnshards which can bind any creature. Now that's an interesting theory. The idea of using the Dawnshards (or maybe using up the Dawnshards?) to bind the Parshendi so they turn into Parshmen... That's a good idea. I'm not sure if its true or not, but its a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mycoltbug Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 I think the reason mankind is still standing is that Odium realized that constant adversity just made men band together and actually made them stronger. Leave them alone for a few centuries though, and they start squabbling and killing each other. And that's exactly what happened. I like this idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grinachu Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 Now that's an interesting theory. The idea of using the Dawnshards (or maybe using up the Dawnshards?) to bind the Parshendi so they turn into Parshmen... That's a good idea. I'm not sure if its true or not, but its a good idea. If you read Jasnah's quotes, it's clear she doesn't know what the dawnshards are. The way the parshendi were turned into parshmen could be the big reveal for her book. It follows if the parshendi were turned into parshmen then the voidbringers or the thunderclasts could have been turned into greatshells. Link, I've developed a theory elsewhere about the Thrill, and about how that seems to be physiologically be causing warfare between men. Let me know if you buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyRioter Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 Now that's an interesting theory. The idea of using the Dawnshards (or maybe using up the Dawnshards?) to bind the Parshendi so they turn into Parshmen... That's a good idea. I'm not sure if its true or not, but its a good idea. I actually came up with the same idea, over at TWG, it was just a wild theory of mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOM1else Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 I think the reason mankind is still standing is that Odium realized that constant adversity just made men band together and actually made them stronger. Leave them alone for a few centuries though, and they start squabbling and killing each other. And that's exactly what happened. I like this idea. Link is right it pretty much says so on the back cover The world became ours, and we lost it. Nothing, it appears, is more challenging to the souls of men than victory itself.Or was that victory an illusion all along? Did our enemies realize that the harder they fought, the stronger we resisted? Perhaps they saw that the heat and the hammer only make for a better grade of sword. But ignore the steel long enough, and it will eventually rust away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zas678 Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 So then why is Odium back? Why have the Last Desolation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe ST Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 So then why is Odium back? Why have the Last Desolation? Because he hates everything? he's just doing things more shrewdly than before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOM1else Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 So then why is Odium back? Why have the Last Desolation? Because when the Heralds broke the Oathpact instead of alerting them that he wasn't bound any more Odium waited until they were convinced that the Oathpact lasted without them and humanity had forgotten who the Voidbringers were to begin the Last Desolation and destroy Roshar for good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grinachu Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 Because when the Heralds broke the Oathpact instead of alerting them that he wasn't bound any more Odium waited until they were convinced that the Oathpact lasted without them and humanity had forgotten who the Voidbringers were to begin the Last Desolation and destroy Roshar for good. Well the Oathpact was broken in the first scene in the book, the prologue. After that we were shown many scenes of Desolations. So Odium didnt' give up trying to destroy the world immediately and the voidbringers came again and again after the Oathpact to try and destroy the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grinachu Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 I actually came up with the same idea, over at TWG, it was just a wild theory of mine. Sorry, Crazyrioter, I haven't read the old threads at TWG, but I agree wholeheartedly with you if you espouse this theory, you have to explain why the original parshendi weren't affected by whatever was down by the dawnshards. Is there something special in the Shattered Hills that protected them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zas678 Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 So, in other words, why did the Parshmen either turn into Parshendi, or why were the Parshendi not turned into Parshmen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts