Wonko the Sane Posted April 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 Maybe I'm being obtuse but I can't put my finger on where exactly you disagree with me. I haven't read the post on highstorms, but isn't it the case that Urithiru was built westward in the place closest to Honor? The problem with dawnshard= body of Honor is that dawnshards sound more magical than Honorblades from the way Honor talks about them, and the Honor blades themselves were weapons of power beyond shardblades. Clearly a lot of Honor's power went into the creation of weapons, which makes the dawnshards even more crucial. Like the basic problem I have with the missing years between Nohadon and the present day is- what the hell happened? At one point humanity was basically being halved every time the Desolations came. And in the present day that threat just evaporated. Somewhere in between something must have happened that protected humanity. The consistent narrative of the descent/fall of man doesn't make sense because if humanity lost at the Final Desolation and lost at the Recreance (which occurred after Nohadon). How come mankind is still standing?. What happened to the threat of the Unmade for instance, how did the parshmen lose their music and become slaves of mankind. The answer must be the dawnshards which can bind any creature. I disagree because I see no need for protection at all, much less for Cultivation to be said protector. In addition to those points made by others here, the theory I currently subscribe to is that it was during this period that Odium/Rayse left the planet on his excursion to Sel. Thus, there would obviously be a sudden decrease in the offensive. Would everyone please stop comparing the Honorblades and Shardblades to the Dawnshards? There is absolutely no evidence to support the claim that the Dawnshards are even weapons at all, and a quick skim of this very topic will find dozens of points to the contrary. I had not yet considered the dichotomy of Odium/Rayse's actions, but it is indeed bewildering. It has been stated outright numerous times that he has decided to take a more subtle aproach to his conquest of Roshar. Why, then, the sudden cataclysm of the True Desolation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyRioter Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 well the letter said Rayse/Odium's visit to Sel was "brief" and Brandon has said it took place before the events of Elantris, which happened 500 years before WoK, so I'd guess Odium's been back from Sel for quite some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonko the Sane Posted April 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 well the letter said Rayse/Odium's visit to Sel was "brief" and Brandon has said it took place before the events of Elantris, which happened 500 years before WoK, so I'd guess Odium's been back from Sel for quite some time. Still the time frame is about right for the current reign of peace to have begun when Odium/Rayse left Roshar. Additionally, a few hundred years could easily be brief to a Shard, so we have to consider that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grinachu Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 Still the time frame is about right for the current reign of peace to have begun when Odium/Rayse left Roshar. Additionally, a few hundred years could easily be brief to a Shard, so we have to consider that. well one has to consider the internal time frame of Elantris itself and the fall of Elantris has been for a short time span, not that much at all. Assuming Rayse went to sel and did something there to aona and skai, that doesn't account for 500 years. Besides, there is no reason to believe 500 years is brief to Hoid or to the recipient of the letter, who we don't know for sure is a shardholder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grinachu Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 I disagree because I see no need for protection at all, much less for Cultivation to be said protector. In addition to those points made by others here, the theory I currently subscribe to is that it was during this period that Odium/Rayse left the planet on his excursion to Sel. Thus, there would obviously be a sudden decrease in the offensive. Would everyone please stop comparing the Honorblades and Shardblades to the Dawnshards? There is absolutely no evidence to support the claim that the Dawnshards are even weapons at all, and a quick skim of this very topic will find dozens of points to the contrary. I had not yet considered the dichotomy of Odium/Rayse's actions, but it is indeed bewildering. It has been stated outright numerous times that he has decided to take a more subtle aproach to his conquest of Roshar. Why, then, the sudden cataclysm of the True Desolation? I think you misread my post. I never said that dawnshards were weapons, only that Honor had made weapons of great power and so his reference to dawnshards in particular when discussing opposing Odium through a champion rather than those weapons suggests that dawnshards have a particular power or potency those weapons don't have. As I already suggested, my theory is that dawnshards are particlar artifacts which can be used to bind or enslave. Another surmise. The owner weilder/bearer of the dawnshard was clearly in Urithiru when he was holding the shard, and it sounds like he was injured. If so, was there a particular reason he headed to the temple? maybe dawnshards are especially potent in temples dedicated to Honor? The answer to your last question might be that Odium is now so confident of his power he can do something that will simply wipe out the world of men? It seems like what Odium did in Sel at least resulted in a giant earthquake and the True Desolation sound similar. Maybe that's his signature move? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkanimereal1 Posted April 21, 2013 Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 I've had some ideas about the Dawnshards that I've been pushing around my head for a while, although when I first developed them I was unaware of Cultivation, so there are some holes that I cannot quite fill. At one point (while he is digging the latrine with his hammer/shardblade) Dalinar considers why there are no shardblades for the workers. It seems odd to him that there are only weapons for the warriors. Very shortly after that, (when Navani walks up and is upset that he forgot about their planned meeting), Navani comments something like (not actual quote) "Don't you think it interesting that masculine arts have to do with destroying while feminine arts are concerned with creating?" My thought is that Shardblades kill/destroy while Dawnshards are the "feminine, creative" shards (almost the shards for the workers which Dalinar wonders about). They would be matching, but opposite: Shardblades slice through things, but Dawnshards would bind things back together/heal. Originally when I learned about Cultivation, I assumed that she would be the creator of the Dawnshards, or that they would be a splinter of her. However, considering that my theory rides on Dawnshards binding things back together, they would probably be from Honor/Tanavast. However, I recently discovered that there are five male Heralds and five female Heralds (take a look at their images, they match up five and five, and in this chart http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121114044819/stormlightarchive/images/c/c7/Knights_Radiant_and_the_ten_Surges.jpg each of the male Heralds is directly across from a female one). This would imply that the masculine/feminine arts may have stemmed from the Heralds. In this case, the Dawnshards would have been a vital part of the heralds. This could be wrong--we know that there are 9 shardblades in the ground at the prologue. And we know that there are "Honorblades," but what if the honorblades are masculine and the Dawnshards are feminine.... I'm not sure how that would be helpful during a Desolation, though, which seems to kind of undermine my theory.The only other thing is to go back to the theory that the Dawnshards are of Cultivation. This could still fall into the feminine/masculine dichotomy, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isomere Posted April 21, 2013 Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 Oh, there it is. Thank goodness for people that know the text. I was going in quite the wrong direction. That's SO INTERESTING though, since the Highstorms seem to have something to do with Honor, and the Origin is in the far, far east. I don't have a clue what it means. But it's really interesting xD. I honestly hadn't associated the Shin with Honor before, but it seems obvious now. And we still don't know where Cultivation is - if she's anywhere. I guess that's a possibility. Shards wouldn't have to be centered anywhere, would they? Although I would think Cultivation would gravitate away from the presence of Odium. We need to be extremely careful about east/west here. The map of Roshar seems like it is rotating on an axis around the Purelake, so what was west 4500 years ago may now actually be east. The people in the book usually refer to it as stormward and leeward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkanimereal1 Posted April 21, 2013 Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 (edited) We need to be extremely careful about east/west here. The map of Roshar seems like it is rotating on an axis around the Purelake, so what was west 4500 years ago may now actually be east. The people in the book usually refer to it as stormward and leeward. I really agree with this. It would make sense, since the Windrunners used to RIDE the Highstorms, which seems to indicate that they were (at least once) of Honor or somehow related. And they come from the Origin, which would indicate they are coming from him. I know people have theorized that his body is in the West, drawing the storms toward him, but something about this theory really doesn't fit in my mind. Wait, wait, wait. I love the idea of the landmass of Roshar rotating, BUT if you remember the quote about Honor being in the West specifically refers to Alethkar being in the East (The Alethi wanted Urithiru built in their country, but it didn't make sense because Honor resides in the West). That was for a long time ago, from the actual WoK, so theoretically Alethkar was in the East back then and still is. Edited April 21, 2013 by darkanimereal1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isomere Posted April 21, 2013 Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 There is a lot of conflicting information. I'm certainly not saying the continents DID rotate 180 degrees, but we just need to be careful not to make too many assumptions about east and west. Keep an open mind and don't rule things out just because the location doesn't match up. This goes for political boundaries as well as continental. Alethkar may be in the same place, but who is to say they didn't get kicked off their original land and then a couple thousand years later "reclaimed" their birthright in the "east"? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkanimereal1 Posted April 21, 2013 Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 There is a lot of conflicting information. I'm certainly not saying the continents DID rotate 180 degrees, but we just need to be careful not to make too many assumptions about east and west. Keep an open mind and don't rule things out just because the location doesn't match up. This goes for political boundaries as well as continental. Alethkar may be in the same place, but who is to say they didn't get kicked off their original land and then a couple thousand years later "reclaimed" their birthright in the "east"? Yeah, I could see that. I think it's definitely worth considering at least Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scorched Posted April 21, 2013 Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 There is a lot of conflicting information. I'm certainly not saying the continents DID rotate 180 degrees, but we just need to be careful not to make too many assumptions about east and west. Keep an open mind and don't rule things out just because the location doesn't match up. This goes for political boundaries as well as continental. Alethkar may be in the same place, but who is to say they didn't get kicked off their original land and then a couple thousand years later "reclaimed" their birthright in the "east"? As much as I love this idea, the fact that Shin-Kak-Nish is in the same place as modern shinovar makes this all the more unlikely. It would take to many different elements; making it overly complicated. I think it's much more probable that It didn't rotate at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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