Mid-Range Game 8: Highborn Intrigue

[Orlok Tsubodai]

STINK, whilst we cannot discount the idea that Wilson is an eliminator, as it is certainly not beyond her talents to intentionally cause suspicion, it is also at least equally likely that the eliminators just wished to sow confusion, or even that villager Brightlord/Ladies decided that she was sufficiently dangerous when evil that she is worth voting for. As such, voting for her on the basis of so little evidence, seems premature to me. Yes, she could be an eliminator. Yes, she is insanely dangerous when she is an eliminator. However, we have no evidence as of yet that she is one, and if she isn't, we are killing one of the players most likely to help us find the eliminators - the most experienced players have seen most of the strategies used before, so will he more likely to pick them up, and are also the ones who typically drive discussion.

STINK, whilst you are the most suspicious to me currently, I shall hold of on voting for you for now, as it is perfectly plausible that you are innocent, and yet hold a vastly differing point of view. I will say, though, that if no one else catches my attention before the end of the day, I will be placing my vote on you.

Edit: You did indeed Hael! Is that 2-1 in my favour?

Edit 2: spelling

Edited August 21, 2015 by OrlokTsubodai

[STINK he/him]

I'm not voting on Katara because I think she's evil, but because she is the only other person with one vote and because someone else said they would vote for me (making it 2 aka kill-worthy) so I wanted to force a tie, as-well as making sure that everyone reading this doesn't just automatically trust someone because of the 'night-vote'.

 

Orlok, you talk of voting when there is evidence, but then say that you might vote me because I opposed a D1 lynch? Something that other players have agreed with in the past and may even still agree with?

Edited August 21, 2015 by IrulelikeSTINK

[Haelbarde he/him]

Edit: You did intend Hael! Is that 2-1 in my favour?

I believe so.

 

Re: Stink, while I must say I'd be suspicious, I'm willing to be lenient given I've not seen him play before. I took his main reason for the vote on Katara being to bring the current tally to tie, which is valid (though I'd have waited to later in the cycle). But yeah, reserving judgment for the time being. 

[Orlok Tsubodai]

STINK, with regard to trusting Wilson, I think we are all sufficiently wary of her that we are all regarding the night vote as giving no indication of her alignment.

With regard to voting for Wilson, I would posit that she is probably one of the worst players to throw under the bus to save oneself, unless you are assured of her guilt. Frankly, the same goes for many of the wildly experienced players. It is often not worth saving yourself if it means that the village might lose an extremely valuable player. What you should be doing, which would be of far more help to the village, is finding someone else who you believe to be suspicious, and highlighting them. This is what drives lynch discussions, and in doing so yields information.

Edit: 2-2 Hael!

Edit 2: responding to STINK's edit.

I have a slight suspicion if you for advocating a strategy that handicaps the village and prevents information gathering, but like Hael, am willing to chalk it up to inexperience unless there appears no one else worthy of suspicion by the end of the day.

Edited August 21, 2015 by OrlokTsubodai

[The Honey Badger he/him]

I did note that the vote on Wilson could be a trick, but right now, I don't think we have enough information to lynch one of our potentially best players. So I think we should hold off on wilson for now, but keep a watchful eye to see if it was a trick. Though I agree with someone above (sorry 5 thirty in the morning, and without glasses, memory doesn't work quite yet) that it could definite be just an eliminator attempt to "sow chaos" and confuse us. 

 

I don't have any current major suspicions, but I do agree that we do need a day 1 lynch. If you need, just lynch an inactive player who doesn't step out of the shadows from watching the main board, they might be an eliminator. I did that a lot in LG11, when I was one. I probably won't be able to get on before the end of the cycle. RL stuff

[STINK he/him]

Okay then, Brightness Katara will no longer have a vote tally of 2, meaning that if I am voted against by the time the day ends, I will die. 

 

And as for who I am suspicious of, I have no clue as so far there has only been Me vs You lot about lynching on D1 and someone else has summed up the days events quite nicely, so it seems I am open to the idea of being lynched

[Amanuensis he/him]

I want to be wrong about you STINK; I really do. I am withholding my vote because I am not entirely convinced you're one of them​. I will say that you're vote is both tactical and bold, and while what you suggest certainly is a possibility, I don't find it probable. At least, it's less probable than my theory that they're trying to take advantage of the "meta" and rid themselves of one of their biggest threats early on in the game. If I were you (and innocent), I might do the same thing to save myself. But I certainly would have saved it as a last resort, bringing up the point you present but also trying to find an alternative before jumping conclusions. You're defensive posturing, to me, could mean one of two things; you really don't like being accused (especially this early, which I can sympathize with 100%) and you are naturally aggressive, or you are desperate and attempting to secure the Eliminator's original plan of ridding themselves of little wilson. I suspect I will learn a lot once this turn is over, whether we lynch you or Brightness Katara.

 

_II_I

 

EDIT: I don't know whether to take you retracting your vote as you listening to reason, or seeing the inevitability of a lynch and hoping that by feigning the first you may get some people to back off. For now I will accept the former. I should note that I am an optimist with severe trust issues, so I immediately begin to find ways to interpret every action as amiable or malicious and that makes me rather conflicted.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Alvom

[RavenRadient7 she/her]

Okay, it looks like a lot happened since I was on. About Day One lynches: it worked in my previous game, but I think the most important thing about lynches is gaining information from them. In QF9, we ignored a lot of information about the other players voting (ie Wyrm leading our voting habits), but each lynch left us those clues.

 

Truthfully, I think that we gain more information when we manage to lynch an eliminator than when we hit a villager, though future games might change my mind on that. The important thing there, though, is hitting an eliminator, which means missing a few times and lynching villagers instead.

 

That being said, deciding who to vote for, and whether to go after active or nonactive players can be difficult. At this point, I feel that going after people who have on but having been talking is the best strategy. Wilson has viewed this thread a few different times and hasn't posted, but I'm not going to put a third vote on her. Both Winter Cloud and Bort has been on since this game started, and neither of them have posted anything. There's probably others like them that I missed, but I'm going to place a vote on Winter Cloud, because I know she's played in more than a few games, and I'm wondering why she hasn't come on and put her thoughts in.

 

As for STINK, I'm sort of uncertain at the moment about him. I've played Town of Salem too, but in that game the turns last seconds, not hours. Often, lynches only happen when someone has seen a role simply because there is not enough time to talk it out and find information. Using the same strategy in a longer style game could be dangerous. At the same time, though, I'm not ready to place a finalizing vote on him. We'll see how the rest of this cycle goes.

 

Edit: Looks like STINK removed his vote. I'm still not going to lynch anyone with my vote. So, vote stays on Winter Cloud.

 

Edit2: Vote change.

Edited August 21, 2015 by RavenRadient7

[STINK he/him]

I'm not voting for Katara anymore guys, so we're all one again. Also, I have played this style of game in another forum as well as Town of Salem, with almost the exact same set of rules except for in our one we could elect a 'chief' of the village, whose vote would count as two instead of one. Right now, it looks like you've all played a game where you unofficially elected someone to lead who ended up being evil, so you're being extra cautious about that happening again.

[Haelbarde he/him]

Might as well throw in a vote tally:

Tally:

Wilson(1): Nobles

Stink(1): Araris

Winter(1): Raven

 

Tally (with history):

Wilson(1): Nobles, Stink{1}

Stink(1): Araris

Adamir(0): Hero{1}

Winter(1): Raven

[STINK he/him]

I'm glad that you have realised that most actions can have multiple intents Alvom, so I will explain what I was trying to do during this day.

 

- Try to stop a day 1 lynch as the eliminators almost certainly have an experienced player that could easily start suggestions after an aftermath of a day 1 lynch on the wrong person and also make some people look worse.

 

- Try to save myself after I was told that someone would be voting me at the end of the day when I might not have a chance to respond, so instead I took the 100% chance and voted early, and could still change things as seen by my lack of voting Katara now.

 

Also, the eliminators have a nightly kill so although they might be the ones who voted for Katara, it is more likely that it was someone who just decided to do it as they couldn't do anything else during the night.

Edited August 21, 2015 by IrulelikeSTINK

[RippleGylf she/her]

I'm kind of confused about everyone's actions so far. Stink's actions have been some of the most suspicious, although I have seen in games like Mafia that sometimes that impression is made completely accidentally by innocents just trying to win. I think that discussion of a Day 1 lynch is absolutely necessary, although even if it becomes a tie, we still get valuable information through everyone's actions. The problem is knowing who to trust. I'm not voting on anyone just yet.

[Haelbarde he/him]

Someone who I'd like to hear from is Shallan. Not sure if I've actually had the chance to play with her in one of these games (or at least talk with) yet, but from what I've seen, I got the impression she'd likely have opinions on what's happened. I guess I'd have expected to have seen a post by now, though she's not the only one. Now it's possible she's just not had the chance to be on yet, but it'd be nice to hear what she has to say.

For those who are curious (provided I've counted correctly):

People not posted since game started: (11)

Winter Cloud, Bort, little wilson, phattemer, Macen, Shallan, Paranoid King, Venture Mistborn, Feligon, a smart guy.

People who posted Night 1 but not Day 1 so far: (2)

Clanky, Seonid

Edited August 21, 2015 by Haelbarde

[STINK he/him]

You like your stats don't you?

[Haelbarde he/him]

I might be one of those people who love to make use of spreadsheets in games...

[RavenRadient7 she/her]

Last game I played, Shallan didn't come onto the website until after she was lynched, Day 1. It's possible that something similar is happening here.

 

I'd think there was some connection between her being inactive and her being an eliminator in that last game, if it weren't for the fact that it was clear she hadn't even read her role before she was lynched. Not saying that she is or isn't an eliminator, since I have no idea, just supposing based off the only game I've played with her.

 

Wilson, will you be posting soon? I think this is the third time I've seen you reading this page since the game started.

[Araris Valerian he/him]

Ok, I like how much you have been contributing to discussion STINK, but I would like a bit of a clarification on the first of those points you listed. The whole point of the lynch business is to force the eliminators to get involved in the discussion. So if anyone (all the better if they turn out to be bad) comes right out next cycle with a list of people they suspect, then that is more information for the village to use later on.

[STINK he/him]

I don't like D1 lynching because of a near complete lack of information and also the fact that (generally) nothing happens in N1 meaning that no-one can have any evidence unless they got lucky with an ability, this generally means that a good person dies rather than a bad person.

[little wilson she/her]

“Brightness Katara, do you have anything to say for yourself?”

 

Katara stared at Highprince Dalinar, shocked. She didn't even know what to say at first. How did one reply to that kind of an accusation? And why in the world were so many Nobles accusing her of being a conspirator? She'd never done a single act of treachery in her life--short though it was, and short though it might be, if these Nobles had any further say in the matter.

 

She suddenly regretted replying to Dalinar's invitation and coming to this banquet. She'd hoped it would give her some sort of a connection to her late mother, being around the man she'd worked so closely with, but now that same man was accusing her of being a traitor. Ironic, that. She'd built up Dalinar as some kind of hero, since she'd heard so many stories about him, but maybe that's all those were. Stories. She should've known he wouldn't live up to them. He was supposed to be a great man, if a warlord. She'd even heard lately that he was embracing the Way of Kings, and becoming something even more, but those rumors were clearly unfounded.

 

A great leader--storms, not even a leader, but just an honorable person--didn't accuse a young lady of being a traitor without even a stitch of evidence, but only on the word of Nobles he'd barely interacted with in the past. Sure, he didn't know her either, but he could've given her a chance and talked with her privately before accusing her in such a public manner. Public accusation never ended well, she knew. Her peers would never look at her the same after this. After all, what kind of Noble accrued so much doubt in their loyalty that their own Highprince accused them at a banquet of conspiring against him?

 

It seemed like she wouldn't find that connection to her mother after all. There was no way Dalinar would let her anywhere near him. Unless....Unless she found the real conspirators. Though how she was to do that, she had no idea. But if that was what it would take to talk to him about her mother, and her final days of life, then so be it. She'd do it. She just hoped Dalinar even remembered her mother. If he didn't.....No. He would. He had to. There couldn't have been that many scribes murdered by Shardblade during the War of Unification. He'd remember. And she would finally understand.

 

---

 

This is.....interesting. I feel like the eliminators just trolled me hard. There I was in the MR7 dead doc, swearing that I was going to give up being proactive and I wasn't going to talk in the next game that I played since clearly talking just leads to my death, and what happens? I get voted on in secret, becoming one of the main focuses of the Day 1 conversation, which pretty much eliminates any chance I have of actually following through and staying silent. Thank you so much. 

 

The only thing I have to add to the conversation right now is a response to this:

 

Also, the eliminators have a nightly kill so although they might be the ones who voted for Katara, it is more likely that it was someone who just decided to do it as they couldn't do anything else during the night.

 

As the eliminators didn't have a kill to perform last night, it would make sense for them to try to use what power they can to get one step closer to lynching a high priority target. I imagine that if I don't die today, they'll probably kill me tonight. At the very least, I'll probably be corrupted, unless they have someone on their own team who would be worth more to them corrupted--like an Artifabrian.

 

I will say this: these first couple nights are crucial for the Ardent. I hope you were able to place orders last night since that was the only night you can certifiably clear someone without any chance of Corruption clouding the certainty of your results. Tonight will probably also be clear for you as well, so choose well. Please note that I'm not saying seek me. That's your own choice. I actually think it would be better if you didn't choose me, since I doubt I'll survive very long, which means that your seek would be better placed elsewhere to guarantee someone for a longer period of time. Not that I would complain if you did seek me. I wouldn't. I'd do what I could to help you before my inevitable death, but I will die, because that's simply what happens with me.

 

I don't condone follow-the-cop strategies, and I'm not condoning it here, but I do think it's important for the seeking roles to do what they can to link up guaranteed villagers, so people know who to trust when the cop dies. Trust is paramount in this game. Which leads me to one final thing: Do not role reveal in your PMs. It's far too early to trust the person you're talking to, and there are no abilities in this game that would be beneficial for the eliminators to know (I'm thinking specifically of a thug-type role with multiple lives). Additionally, you don't know who could be spying on your PM. So please, please don't reveal your roles, even if you're nothing more than a Brightlady/Brightlord.

[Clanky he/him]

Wow, I don't think I have been in a game with so much legitimate D1 lynch discussion. I like it!

 

My two cents about STINK are that he is probably just overexcited about his first SE game. He seems to be acting how I did in my first game where I wanted to very much be a part of everything and it ended with me being lynched early. Also I feel that if he were an eliminator they would have told him not to do something as suspicious as trying to kill Wilson at this point. However he also might have forgotten to consult with the others in the doc and just done that solo.

[RippleGylf she/her]

Also, I think we need to be wary of the Worldsingers. With the vote being tied, and no one really wanting to be the one to lynch, a worldsinger could change a vote anonymously, causing a lynch where there wasn't one before. If that happens, we won't know who wanted that lynch to happen.

[Haelbarde he/him]

Just a reminder to add to Wilson's comment about role reveals - what's dangerous about revealing yourself as a Brightlord/lady is it lets eliminators narrow their focus on finding the roles they find dangerous. By revealing you have no role, you put allies with roles in greater danger as the eliminators can just ignore you (not a good thing when the village has useful roles).

[RavenRadient7 she/her]

Wilson, thanks for jumping in and explaining your thoughts. I agree that revealing roles at all, whether publicly or in the PMs, could be dangerous. Any role revel gives the eliminators information about whether they should or should not corrupt someone.

 

Ripple, I hadn't even thought about the Worldsingers. In that case, a lynch with a solid lead (at least two votes more than any other player) would be better than a tied lynch, especially since I would be surprised if the eliminators didn't have a Worldsinger. It seems like the kind of role eliminators would have.

 

At this point, I think the real question is if we should try and lynch an inactive, under the grounds that they aren't helping much even if they are a villager, or if we should lynch someone more active. Trying to lynch someone active would probably give us more information than lynching an inactive, but also takes out a player who's helping more if we miss and get an eliminator.

 

Edit: Haelbarde: Nice signature.

Edited August 21, 2015 by RavenRadient7

[STINK he/him]

If we're gonna lynch someone and try to make it a majority so that an evil Worldsinger doesn't kill an active person, then we should start the voting now.

[Paranoid King he/him]

I haven't noticed anyone bring this up yet, and I think it's important to remember - Eliminators can corrupt each other. Therefore, you can't rule out that one of the eliminators is an artifabrisan, because they can corrupt each other and use that power to corrupt others.