Lerasium in Roshar

[Mikanium]

I saw this and it made me wonder.

Shard: If someone from Roshar were to burn Lerasium, would it turn them into a Mistborn?

Brandon: If they didn't know what they were doing, yes, they would become a Mistborn.

 

So this to me makes me wonder.

 

1) If you brought Lerasium in a storm on Roshar, would it become infused with stormlight.

2) If a Windrunner were to use this Lerasium infused with Stormlight, would he gain access to all 10 surges.

3) If someone like Teft were to use the infused Lerasium would it give him 2 of the Surges?

 

Hoid wasn't wandering Roshar to get a tan...

[Leuthie]

Lerasium grafts on, or changes, the sDNA necessary to access Allomancy when its burned by a non-user. Only gems store Stormlight, not metal, so lerasium wouldn't store Stormlight. And Lerasium has nothing to do with Roshar magic systems, so it wouldn't add the ability to use Surges.

[Isomere]

Mikanium, can you post that link please? I don't think i've ever read that quote about Lerasium. 

 

 

 And Lerasium has nothing to do with Roshar magic systems, so it wouldn't add the ability to use Surges.

 

I think it is too early to suppose lerasium has no effect on Roshar magic. 

Edited June 18, 2013 by Isomere

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Yeah, that quote's from an alloy of law release... I've actually been trying to track down the full thing, but as far as I can tell wherever kchan put it up has vanished from the internet.

 

From what I understand, lerasium isn't so much 'a metal that turns you into a mistborn' as 'a metal that rewrites your spiritweb... and by the way, the default setting is 'mistborn''.  So if you know what you're doing with it you can (probably) create arbitrary changes and gain UNLIMITED COSMIC POWER.  Or at least learn new magic whatever.

 

Alloying lerasium seems to turn you into a misting of what you alloy with.

 

However, the chart of allomantic metals says "Lerasium - Pure Lerasium transforms a person into an Allomancer or drastically improves their Allomantic powers.  In alloy form, it produces various expanded Physical and Enhancement effects.  (Including the creation of Mistings)". 

 

I have to wonder if the misting-creation when you alloy some allomantic metal with lerasium is actually just using lerasium's primary effect in an inefficient way.  IE: you're actually using normal lerasium's 'rewrite my spiritweb' effect, but telling it 'rewrite my spiritweb with this thing right here'.  That would mean the 'expanded physical and enhancement effects' you get from lerasium alloys are the 'real' ones, and the misting creation is just a side effect.  That's just my speculation, obviously.  If that's how things actually work, you could presumably become a ferring by alloying lerasium with feruchemically charged metals, become an elantrian by having an elantrian form a bead of lerasium into an aon (probably Rao), or... I dunno, become a windrunner by having a windrunner lash a bead down your throat or something. 

 

There's probably a far more efficient method of telling lerasium 'I want you to do this'.

 

Anyway, since people seem to feel disappointed if I don't include these, quotes!

17th Shard: If a Mistborn burns lerasium, as in, not just ingests it, what effect would it grant Allomantically?

Brandon:  That is a RAFO. It would do something, but the thing you've gotta remember is that, when ingesting lerasium for the first time and gaining the powers, your body is actually burning it. Think of lerasium as a metal anyone can burn. Does that make sense?

17th Shard: It does.

Brandon: By burning it you gain access to those powers. It rewrites your spiritual DNA, and there are ways to do really cool things with lerasium that I don't see how anyone would know. Were most Mistborn to just burn it, it would rewrite their genetic code to increase their power as an Allomancer.

 

http://twg.17thshard.com/index.php?&topic=7502.msg165365
"Ask what a Lerasium Atium alloy would do."

"Ah, I've been asked this before. There are a number of theories, but nobody's really sure, since there haven't really been any opportunities to alloy lerasium with atium. You can choose which one to believe. Most require an understanding of realmatic theory to comprehend, which you need to be a Shard or Splinter to even begin to understand."

I interrupted here to ask if Sazed or Hoid would know, and he - of course - RAFO'd.

"What Lerasium is, is essentially a hack for something like your spiritual DNA. It rewrites what your spiritual self is capable of. So, combined with atium, which allows you a glimpse into the vision of everything - past, present, future - the theories say it could do one of two things. It could either create a substance so volatile that it would have world-ending repercussions, or rewrite your "spiritual DNA" (his phrase, not mine) with atium's power. Is that a vague enough answer?"

 

http://twg.17thshard.com/index.php?topic=6655.msg129262#msg129262
"4. Every metal has a Feruchemical, an Allomantic, and a Hemalurgic property. The godly metals each also do something else. There are several interesting Feruchemical powers yet to be discovered and revealed in the next series. Feruchemy is less widely understood because there were so few practitioners in the modern era, and a lot of the time they were too afraid of capture to really study and use their powers."

Viper

Hah. So in Cosmere, does physics work the same way in the physical realm as it does in our world? Specifically, particle physics; and are atoms made up of protons and neutrons and electrons, and is light photons, etc?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Viper

So what's at the core of an atom of Atium? Ate-teum? Also how do you pronounce it? At-teum?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. And the matter is just normal matter, but it's wrapped in the spiritual. The Spiritual DNA [or something] is what makes it magical.

[Mikanium]

I found the quote here:

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/3698-lerasium-in-roshar/

 

Again, I can't think of any reason for Hoid to go to Rashar except to wait for a high storm.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Yeah, I found that one.  I was looking for a full transcript, since KChan usually puts up a block of quotes from an event instead of just giving out single question and answers.

[Shardlet]

I found the quote here:

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/3698-lerasium-in-roshar/

 

Again, I can't think of any reason for Hoid to go to Rashar except to wait for a high storm.

 

That is beautiful!  You just linked to a post in the same thread and the post was 4 posts above yours!    The only thing that could top that is making a post and then editing that post to include a link to the same post!

[Phantom Monstrosity]

That is beautiful!  You just linked to a post in the same thread and the post was 4 posts above yours!    The only thing that could top that is making a post and then editing that post to include a link to the same post!

He was looking for this thread, I expect. Like I said, I'm not sure where Kchan consolidated everything from the alloy of law event. Edited June 18, 2013 by Phantom Monstrosity

[Shardlet]

Upvote for Mikanium to let him know I was not making fun but rather found the occurence to be funny.

 

Sorry if I wasn't clear about that.

[Wonko the Sane]

The way I see it, when you burn Lerasium, one of two things happens:

a. The amount of Preservation's innate Investiture in your system increases, which inherently increases your power as an Allomancer, or

b. You rewrite a section of your sDNA, producing an effect somewhat akin to forgery, the instinctual usage of which is to increase your Allomantic potential.

Actually, these two could could be combined into a third option: the metal contains a portion of Preservation's spiritual aspect, which you can use as raw material to expand your Spiritweb, essentially adding extra paragraphs into the metaphorical book of your soul. Instinctively, most people would simply attach it to their sDNA in its prior state, giving them a larger portion of Preservation that would in turn grant Allomantic potential.

Well, I've convinced me. I will now defend this theory with my honor long after it is been conclusively proven false.

EDIT: I had to change my list style from "a)" to "a." because a "b" followed by a ")" is apparently automatically converted to a emoticon. Does anyone know how to prevent that in the future?

Edited June 19, 2013 by Wonko the Sane

[Cartith]

Shard: If someone from Roshar were to burn Lerasium, would it turn them into a Mistborn?

Brandon: If they didn't know what they were doing, yes, they would become a Mistborn.

 

I think the emphasis on them not knowing what they were doing refers to a modified Shardic Intent relation. Users of lerasium are effectively a Mini-Sliver, since they are holding a part of a body of a god. Their intent in using it, if they don't know what they are doing, is "blank" so to speak, so it goes to the default of making a Mistborn. If someone did know what they were doing, their intent would determine what re-writing of their spiritual DNA would occur. The strengthening of a Mistborn  is just like overwriting a file on a memory card. The "mistborn" part of their spiritual DNA is overwritten with a stronger version. 

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Yeah most mistborn running around are 50% on the scale of allomantic potential.  Lerasium puts you at 100%, so I assume it would roughly double their power.

[Binnut]

Yeah most mistborn running around are 50% on the scale of allomantic potential.  Lerasium puts you at 100%, so I assume it would roughly double their power.

So a Lerasium Mistborn cannot increase his power by eating another bead?

[Phantom Monstrosity]

So a Lerasium Mistborn cannot increase his power by eating another bead?

Well, if you eat enough lerasium to become a lerasium savant, you end up becoming Preservation.

 

But aside from savant-changes, I'm pretty sure lerasium just rewrites your spiritweb - eating more lerasium without knowing how to use it would make you a 100% mistborn again.  If you know how to use it, there's all sorts of really cool things you could do with it.

[Morsk]

Well, if you eat enough lerasium to become a lerasium savant, you end up becoming Preservation.

This kind of thing makes me wonder if a Shard can be shared 50/50. Or even traded. The Shards could meet up and have an "Adonalsium Party" trading metals with each other, then all end up with balanced intents.

[Odium's_Shard]

The Intent shouldn't be based on the Power or Investiture given by the Shard, or relative to it, though it permeates all forms of Power of the Sgard, it is more of a paradigm by which the Shard operates on without pause, unable to see the world through a different perspective.

 

Intent is ever present in the Shard and its Holder regardless of the Power left/transferred. 

[Phantom Monstrosity]

The Intent shouldn't be based on the Power or Investiture given by the Shard, or relative to it, though it permeates all forms of Power of the Sgard, it is more of a paradigm by which the Shard operates on without pause, unable to see the world through a different perspective.

 

Intent is ever present in the Shard and its Holder regardless of the Power left/transferred. 

Clearly not the case.  Vin had more freedom of action because she had a little Ruin.

[Odium's_Shard]

What I'm saying is that power does not bring Intent. Presumably Shards couldn't 'balance' in this way.

[Chromium Compounder]

Clearly not the case.  Vin had more freedom of action because she had a little Ruin.

 

I've always believed that given enough time she would have become as locked in as Leras was.  I don't think the Ruin in her would have been able to stay and maintain her freedom for long.  The main reason Harmony has as much freedom as he does is that he holds both shards, and I don't think even he is completely free.

[WeiryWriter]

Clearly not the case.  Vin had more freedom of action because she had a little Ruin.

 

Umm... I'm sorry, but do you have a quote for that?  I've seen that mentioned before but it runs counter to my understanding of the situation.  The way I understand it is Vin had more freedom of action because she was new to the power and hadn't had time to be molded to the Intent.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

I'll have one in a bit. It's in HoA.

[Morsk]

It's from Vin's PoV so it could be wrong. On the other hand, she's a goddess and her PoV could have access to privileged information. Also, we know Rashek was unable to use Preservation's power to kill Kwaan.

Preservation could never destroy you! she thought, almost screaming it against the agony. He could only protect. That’s why he needed to create humankind. All along, Ruin, this was part of his plan!

He didn’t give up part of himself, making himself weaker, simply so that he could create intelligent life! He knew he needed something of both Preservation and of Ruin. Something that could both protect and destroy. Something that could destroy to protect.

edit: Oops, I didn't see there was a Page 2 when I replied. I guess I actually beat Phantom with a quote though! Edited July 7, 2013 by Morsk

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Yeah, I can't quote on my phone.  Good to see other forumites picking up the slack.

Edited July 7, 2013 by Phantom Monstrosity

[Odium's_Shard]

But I still think it is relevant to understand that that sliver of Ruin was finite til it was quashed by the overbearing moral qualities of the Shard and its Intent. 

[WeiryWriter]

I'm wary of believing of accepting Vin's reasoning there.  We know that Shards are not omniscient so Vin is essentially just making an educated guess.  Like Odium's Shard pointed out a person's Innate Investiture is just so minisucle that I really doubt it would have any effect against the full power of a shard.

 

Also the point you are trying to make depends on Vin being able to "destroy" with Preservation's power because of her Innate Investiture which is a mix of Preservation and Ruin.  That doesn't feel right to me because I am pretty sure Leras had Innate Investiture from Adonalsium, which would in effect include Ruin.  Ergo Vin's Innate Investiture isn't what is giving her leeway.  We know that Intents shape the shardholders' minds and Leras would have known this and seen that it was necessary for someone new to come to the power that would be able to use it against its Intent, at least for a little while.

 

As for Rashek, he only had a limited amount of control since he didn't fully ascend and Leras still held Preservation.