Anything you felt should have been done differently in The Stormlight Archive?

[thekingofpillowland]

First off, no offense taken. I'm happy to have a discussion. That is partly why I'm on these forums in the first place.

Under no moral code that I can think of could Adolin's killing of Sadeas be considered an honorable action.  Expedient, sure.  Good even.  But never honorable.  As far as Renarin goes, I don't think we've seen enough of him to make any decisions either way.  I don't recall seeing him do either an honorable or a dishonorable action.  He's an unknown at this point, as far as I can recall.

 

To be fair, I did say he acted pretty honourable except for the killing of Sadeas, which in itself is an act that I find totally understandable. Sadeas was deliberately provoking Adolin, who does have a very short temper. In my opinion, a person can be honourable and still make mistakes, (and yes, a murder is a very big mistake) but Sadeas was a danger to Adolin's father, and Dalinar is a man worth protecting. Dalinar is just about the only powerful Alethi who is trying to do some good, and trying to protect people, so all in all, murdering Sadeas could be seen either way. However, I will concede that Renarin has not proved himself honourable.

Can a profession itself be honorable?  I don't think so.  One might go into, say, a poorly paid profession for honorable reasons, but I don't know that the profession itself could be considered honorable.  Nor do I think that a person is automatically honorable just because they're a member of said profession.

As I said, different cultures and people have different ideas about what is considered honourable. You don't think that a profession can be inherently honourable? That's fine. That's your opinion. I'm just pointing out the fact that other people will see it differently. As I said previously, honour is differently defined for everyone.

 

I get that, according to the way the story's been set up, the Radiants don't actually have to be honorable.  But the point of this thread is to talk about what things we'd change if we could, and this has always kind of bugged me.  I originally thought, when I was reading about the ten orders and all that stuff, that the different orders would be for different types of honor.  Like one would be for keeping your word, another for following the law, another for always fighting a fair fight, another for never going behind someone's back, etc.  And that seemed kind of cool, because honor is a tricky thing to pin down and open to at least some interpretation.  But all of the orders were supposed to follow the first Ideal, and I'm just not seeing it from Jasnah or Shallan (or Adolin or Szeth, though they're not Radiants and so are somewhat outside the scope of this discussion).  If I were writing the story, I'd have made the Radiants need to be more honorable to keep their powers.  It seems like most of them get off lightly.

 

This is your opinion, so all I'm doing is trying to persuade you, that you may have misjudged the afforementioned characters. I will point out that the first ideal consists of: "Life before death" (dont kill unecessarily, don't throw your life away) "Strength before weakness" (protect and serve those weaker than yourself) "journey before destination" (the ends do not justify the means, how you accomplished your goals is more important than the fact that you completed them at all.) Based on that ideal, I think that they are honourable. They never do anything dishonourable, (as in murdering innocents in cold blood) in pursuit of their goals. And I will point out, those are goals that will protect the weak, if they succeed.

Finally, Shallan's intent to save the world was basically what I was referring to when I mentioned her going to find the Oathgates -- that's exactly why she went to find them, because she thought they were important in stopping a catastrophe.  Like I said, that's one of the two honorable things she's done.

Sorry, my mistake. But the way you say that makes it sound as though you are trivialising it. Almost as if you're saying "Eh, she's not that good. All she's done is try to save the world." I don't mean to offend, I just think that trying to save the world counts for a lot.

[maxal]

Sorry for the quick response, I am running out of time. I'll come back later. However I wanted to quickly say a few words on Dalinar and honor.

 

Dalinar is considered one of the most honorable character in the story and yet, he condones the chasmfiend hunt, which led to the death of 50 good men, simply so the king could have an excuse to pretend at being a worthy leader. To paraphrase Adolin, hunting is nothing more than butchery where the animal does not stand a chance. Was it honorable? Adolin sure believes it was not (and I agree with him), but Dalinar does not have any quarrel with it, worst he calls it a "grand tradition".

 

So what is honor for Dalinar? Basically, to follow the words of the Way of Kings. It is obvious there is no chapter on hunting in there. Adolin, on his side, follows, more and more, his own heart and his own sense of right or wrong which may not always be honorable, but is deeply human.

 

I'll conclude because I am in a hurry by stating we can't start to name Adolin and Szeth as character who do not follow the first oath: they have not said the first oath. Can we please stop thinking they should act like Radiants? There are not Radiants, not yet anyway. 

Edited September 5, 2015 by maxal

[WeiryWriter]

On the topic of Adolin killing Sadeas, we have this WoB:

 

 

[signing Line - 02:23:00]

Questioner

I am very convinced that Adolin, with the events that happen with the last book. You're sending him down a like a dark path. Is he possibly going to be a-- <questioningly> Antagonist? Protagonist?-- A bad, eventually? Or is he--

Brandon Sanderson

I'm going to say this, the things that Adolin did do not contradict some of the moralities on Roshar, in fact they follow them directly. Some of the moralities on our planet would say what he did is the right thing to do. I think treating it as a "dark path" is too reductionist to say. There are people who would seriously argue, and they would have a good argument, that what Dalinar was doing by leaving Sadeas around was a good idea. And then there are other people who would say "You know what Sadeas did was a challenge and it was rightly then responded to" and then there are people who would say it was absolutely immoral. So, it depends on your philosophy.

What would Honor say? Well, Honor's dead, so-- *lots of laughter* You know Honor would not have been behind that action, but Honor's dead.

 

(source)

 

He has also said that while Orders like the Windrunners and Skybreakers would not not like what he did, others like the Dusbringers and Willshapers would be totally cool with it.

[maxal]

On the topic of Adolin killing Sadeas, we have this WoB:

 

 

(source)

 

He has also said that while Orders like the Windrunners and Skybreakers would not not like what he did, others like the Dusbringers and Willshapers would be totally cool with it.

 

Yeah it is common for people to think Adolin did a despicable thing because it is call "murder" and it was done outside a large scale battle.... Truth to be told, he has little options at the time, either he forsake his own self and step aside to let a bully keep on torturing people he loves or he acted. Quite brashly, but he still the morally right thing, which happened to be illegal and not all that honorable, but it is was right. 

 

The interesting angle to the murder scene is to compare it to Kaladin... Had Kaladin not suddenly realized Elhokar needed to live, he would have forsake his own self, taking down a path far away from his deepest core. Had he refused to rescue Dalinar's army at the Tower, he would have done the same. 

 

Adolin just did the same, though his path seem to bring him through more difficult choices. Had he let Sadeas walk free, he would have forsake his deepest core being, the one who tentatively tried to shine all through WoR... By this I mean the Adolin who enters a shouting match with, presumably, Dalinar as he imprisoned himself to protest against Kaladin's unjust imprisonment. Whereas he did not breach the law, he did take a firm stand against the king's decree.... surely Dalinar was angry about it, him so keen to maintain the illusion Elhokar is a worthy leader. 

 

There is a lot to say about Adolin's growth in that book and it is unique to think "honor" may not be his best virtue, but "morality" may be.

 

Pertaining Kaladin and honor... He may be honorable, but he also is prejudice in who should receive his honor. He started with boys reminding him of Tien, anyone else, he did not care to protect as they fell outside the mold he has crafted for those he deemed worthy of his protection. Afterwards, he chose the bridgemen and his first impulse has been to leave Dalinar to his faith. It took him quite a bit of thinking before agreeing to help. Then, even after being named head guard for the Kholin, his "honor" still made him side with his man, protect an assassin, all this because he considered his task was to his men before the Kholin... Surely, that was not all honorable as he had given his word, but walks on it shortly after. That being said, while Kaladin is honorable, he is not perfect. He has fall-outs, even with honor which serves to make him a more plausible character.

 

Besides, I'd also like to echo other posters words: nobody ever said all knights were honorable... but all had to follow their order's distinct code.

 

As for Shallan being given her place while Kaladin has to earn it... Seriously. Kaladin is a darkeyed slave with a shash brand, anybody would have been wary of him. Of course he has to earn his place, he comes out of nowhere, he is lowborn and has the status of "slave". Yet, despite this, Dalinar welcomes him with open arms and even lets him talk to the king... a serious breach in protocol if there ever was one. Shallan was not given such a warm welcome. She was blatantly told by Dalinar he was "fine" with her trying it out with Adolin, but he had to convince him AND the Brightness Navani she was worthy to marry him. The only reason Dalinar allowed her to even get near his son is likely because he had grown desperate the boy would ever find a wife. They offer her a low key position as a clerk, out of sympathy, which she refused. I can't say the Kholin welcomed her with open arms. 

 

In comparison, Kaladin was offered a position worthy of a lighteyed, so it is false to say Shallan did not have to prove herself. She had to. Big time. More so than Kaladin.

[galendo]

Okay, in the intent of not hijacking this topic away from its intended point of discussing what we'd change about SA if we had the ability, I've created a new thread for people to discuss their interpretations of what's honorable or dishonorable, or which characters are honorable or dishonorable (as well as outlining my own thoughts on the matter).  The topic can be found here http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/41552-how-do-you-define-honorable/ and we can discuss the matter to our hearts' content there.

 

So I guess I'd say that if I were changing SA, I'd make it so that the Radiants had to follow my own personal belief of what it means to be honorable, and there would be sharper penalties for those who failed to follow the code.  It just seems to me that some characters in SA get off a lot easier than others, and I don't really like that.  I'd rather that the conflicts between the Orders came about more from deciding which of two goods was the greater good than to have them be so disparate that I can't even see the logic by which some of the Orders appear to be operating.

[cuimhne]

I would have preferred if Szeth was perhaps captured after being defeated, maybe Nale then gets him out of captivity almost immediately or something like that, instead of killing him and resurrecting him within the span of a few chapters. Szeth at the end as I recall finally accepted that the Radiants were returned and that his oath was worthless and he accepted death.

 

In the paperback version of WoR, Brandon actually did improve this part. At the very end of the Kaladin/Szeth fight in the new version, Kaladin started to kill Szeth but at the last moment changed his attack and instead stabbed him in the arm (IIRC). Szeth then fell to the ground, died from the impact, but was brought back by the fabrial thing. I think this is a little like someone in our world dying and then being brought back by that electric shock to the chest thing. Just so's you know.

[JoeAgain]

I enjoyed the chasm sequence and the growing respect and possible friendship between Shallan and Kaladin. That said, I truly and very strongly do not want to see them become romantic; she and Adolin are enjoyable, and the story really doesn't need to become more Kaladin-centric.

[maxal]

I enjoyed the chasm sequence and the growing respect and possible friendship between Shallan and Kaladin. That said, I truly and very strongly do not want to see them become romantic; she and Adolin are enjoyable, and the story really doesn't need to become more Kaladin-centric.

 

I do agree with you last sentence. One of the reason I detest the Kaladin/Shallan potential ship is it would re-center the story on *again* Kaladin. Nearly all the main arc revolves around him, worst even when it is not about him, it becomes about him, it would refreshing of some of it could be about other characters... 

[galendo]

I enjoyed the chasm sequence and the growing respect and possible friendship between Shallan and Kaladin. That said, I truly and very strongly do not want to see them become romantic; she and Adolin are enjoyable, and the story really doesn't need to become more Kaladin-centric.

I'm second this as well: I very much do not want to seek Shallan and Kaladin in a romantic relationship, though in my case it's more because I think the two have some sort of anti-synergy when in the same scene -- the interactions between them always seem unnatural and forced.  (I didn't really like the chasm sequence, either.  Kaladin losing his powers at juuuust the right time to make falling into the chasm be an ordeal rather than a momentary inconvenience is the sort of plot twisting that I dislike.)

 

That being said, I'm perfectly okay with the level of Kaladin-centricness that the series currently has.  He's certainly a major player, perhaps the most major player, and unlike many of the other characters (and here I'm mostly picking on Shallan again), he actually has difficult moral decisions to make and serious consequences for making the wrong choice.  Though I should clarify that I want more of Bridge Four Kaladin from the first book and less of mopey depressed Kaladin from the second.

[DreamEternal]

That being said, I'm perfectly okay with the level of Kaladin-centricness that the series currently has. He's certainly a major player, perhaps the most major player, and unlike many of the other characters (and here I'm mostly picking on Shallan again), he actually has difficult moral decisions to make and serious consequences for making the wrong choice. Though I should clarify that I want more of Bridge Four Kaladin from the first book and less of mopey depressed Kaladin from the second.

Funny thing you call him the most major player, since he does not seem to command any nation or to be menber of any powerful secret society or to hold world changing knowledge or the potential to discover it. He is just a heroic guy with a spear, powers and a load of personal issues.

And about difficulty choices, Kaladin had it hard, but in the end what were the consequences for making the wrong choice and changing his mind on the last possible time? Dalinar almost abdicated because of his visions and now has to choose between letting an inexperienced and imature king rule or being a tyrant. Shallan had her cover burst by the ghostbloods. Adolin has murdered Sadeas in the dark an will have to deal with the consequences. Szeth is... Szeth.

All in all, Kaladin isn't really that important at the moment, at least when it comes to our Radiants+Szeth+Adolin.

Edited September 8, 2015 by CognitivePulsePattern

[maxal]

I'm second this as well: I very much do not want to seek Shallan and Kaladin in a romantic relationship, though in my case it's more because I think the two have some sort of anti-synergy when in the same scene -- the interactions between them always seem unnatural and forced.  (I didn't really like the chasm sequence, either.  Kaladin losing his powers at juuuust the right time to make falling into the chasm be an ordeal rather than a momentary inconvenience is the sort of plot twisting that I dislike.)

 

That being said, I'm perfectly okay with the level of Kaladin-centricness that the series currently has.  He's certainly a major player, perhaps the most major player, and unlike many of the other characters (and here I'm mostly picking on Shallan again), he actually has difficult moral decisions to make and serious consequences for making the wrong choice.  Though I should clarify that I want more of Bridge Four Kaladin from the first book and less of mopey depressed Kaladin from the second.

 

I thought I was the only one who disliked the chasm scene and most of Kaladin/Shallan interactions. I too felt they were forced by the author as if he was trying to show us rope the size of a strut to make us grab onto the most common trope of all. There are many reasons I did not enjoy the chasm scene. It felt too convenient, it was too Kaladin centrist and it had Kaladin defeat a chasmfiend nearly alone which was not very plausible, not to mention the 80 feet climb on an injured leg or the tourniquet for a whole night.... That was a serious medical stretch. I get it Brandon wanted to injured Kaladin to keep him behind when they all leave to the Shattered Plains, but I felt he overdone it.

 

Just too much Kaladin in part 4. Sorry.

 

 

Funny thing you call him the most major player, since he does not seem to command any nation or to be menber of any powerful secret society or to hold world changing knowledge or the potential to discover it. He is just a heroic guy with a spear, powers and a load of personal issues.

And about difficulty choices, Kaladin had it hard, but in the end what were the consequences for making the wrong choice and changing his mind on the last possible time? Dalinar almost abdicated because of his visions and now has to choose between letting an inexperienced and imature king rule or being a tyrant. Shallan had her cover burst by the ghostbloods. Adolin has murdered Sadeas in the dark an will have to deal with the consequences. Szeth is... Szeth.

All in all, Kaladin isn't really that important at the moment, at least when it comes to our Radiants+Szeth+Adolin.

 

Yeah I do agree Kaladin is not that important anymore. He still has his story arc, but I wish the next book won't focus so strongly on him. Don't get me wrong, he is a great character, but he currently suffers for over-exposure which is why less Kaladin would be better.

[Hoid Is Dead]

• Sadeas should have survived. - He's like the semi-major antagonist in the series, I think he died prematurely, maybe because they wanted to focus on the ghostblood more or the parshendi as the 'enemies'.  But still, good riddance.

More Elohkar & Gaz POVS - He is seeing things in the corner of his eyes, they should have atleast give like 1-2 fillers for them.

Less Shallan's family POV - the one killing small animals did nothing important, for me. (sorry)

[ParadoxicalZen]

More Chouta and Little Herdaz food

Edited September 10, 2015 by ParadoxSpren

[DreamEternal]

• Less Shallan's family POV - the one killing small animals did nothing important, for me. (sorry)

I for one liked Balat's POV in Way of Kings. I like seeing characters who are seem as creepy but are good (if unhinged) people. But I do feel sorry for that crab.

[WitSpren]

I thought I was the only one who disliked the chasm scene and most of Kaladin/Shallan interactions. I too felt they were forced by the author as if he was trying to show us rope the size of a strut to make us grab onto the most common trope of all. There are many reasons I did not enjoy the chasm scene. It felt too convenient, it was too Kaladin centrist and it had Kaladin defeat a chasmfiend nearly alone which was not very plausible, not to mention the 80 feet climb on an injured leg or the tourniquet for a whole night.... That was a serious medical stretch. I get it Brandon wanted to injured Kaladin to keep him behind when they all leave to the Shattered Plains, but I felt he overdone it.

 

Just too much Kaladin in part 4. Sorry.

 

 

 

Yeah I do agree Kaladin is not that important anymore. He still has his story arc, but I wish the next book won't focus so strongly on him. Don't get me wrong, he is a great character, but he currently suffers for over-exposure which is why less Kaladin would be better.

Sorry all, but there is very little in the books that I don't like.    I do mostly, like the Chasm scenes (exception below) and all the character flashbacks (including Shallan).   As I said in another post a little over a year ago, I like WoR so much I had read it at least 20 times - at that point. 

 

Anyway, back sort of on thread topic:   I was going to start my own topic, but I found this thread and so am using this one.    My thread title was going to be:   "How Stupid Was That?"

 

There are many of these, but I only have a couple here.

 

1.   In the Chasm scene, after Shallan gives Kal the Shardblade - he does WHAT???   He jumps out into the open chasm & fights the bug!!!      How Stupid is That!!!

Why not lean out like he did before, to make it attack their crevice (where they are safe) again & using the 6 foot blade, poke it in the eye & chop off each claw that it puts near their crevice.   Much better tactic than exposing yourself.    Or using the Blade, start cutting a safe tunnel up to the top.     He could chop pieces and Shallan could toss them out into the Chasm.   Again, a lot safer than fighting the bug in open chasm.

 

2.   In the big Voidbringer battle near the end, EVERYONE knows that they all are in VERY DEEP EXCREMENT.    But Shallan and Delinar both choose to not contribute their Shardblades to the battle!!!     How Stupid Is That!!!

 

Shallan had already told Delinar that she was a KR and she could have turned her blade over to him (in Private) to be used by an experienced Blade fighter.    Delinar could have done the same with his own Blade.    He could have even warned the fighters that if/when the blade was needed they would be "called" back to the original owners.    They might have even done this with Renerin's Blade.  

The Blades all could have been well used with Roion's army to change it from a loss to a big win.    I'm not saying that Shallan/Delinar/Renerin knew that they would not need the Blades, but I am saying that they all 3 know that they could be used by others until they were called by their owners.     They were very important tools to be used, but they were just (mostly) ignored.

 

THIS IS NOT A CONDEMNATION of BS Writing!!!     Not at all!   I actually think that the writing is GREAT!!!      I think that it is very appropriate to show people doing really, Really, REALLY stupid things.     That is because I see people in the Real World doing unbelievably stupid things almost every day.    I drive a truck and can see into peoples cars quite easily.    You would not believe the stupid things I see people doing!!     Texting & driving (that is an easy one), but just this week I saw a guy on a computer playing a card game!!!.    A couple months ago I even saw one that was X rated!!     How Stupid Is That!!!

 

 

I refuse to answer any questions about how many times I have read it now, but the two books are just so damnation enjoyable!!!         How Stupid Is That!      Ha!  Ha!

 

Anyway, what do you think.    And please bring up your own "How Stupid Is That!" moment/scene.

Edited October 2, 2015 by WitSpren

[AerionBFII]

• I disliked Adolin confiding in the ex soldier Ardent in WOK & WOR - I have a natural suspicion about fanatic religious groups, i have a theory that if you tell one Ardent your basically telling them all (or at least the top brass) and their views and prejudices will come back to haunt and cause trouble for Dalinars group.

 

• Sadeas releasing versions of Dalinars visions - i dislike the fact that everybody (Ghostbloods, The SON's and the Diagram Group) are now privy to all the visions that Dalinar had.

 

• Moash - His betrayal cut deep man....Bridge 4 was like a brotherhood and he chose his own revenge over it.

[Jondesu]

• I disliked Adolin confiding in the ex soldier Ardent in WOK & WOR - I have a natural suspicion about fanatic religious groups, i have a theory that if you tell one Ardent your basically telling them all (or at least the top brass) and their views and prejudices will come back to haunt and cause trouble for Dalinars group.

Do you mean Zahel? Oh, or do you mean the one who was overseeing the soulcasters? If the first, I don't think we have anything to worry about, and I don't recall him saying anything too dangerous to the second, but I do agree with the overall sentiment.

jW

[maxal]

Do you mean Zahel? Oh, or do you mean the one who was overseeing the soulcasters? If the first, I don't think we have anything to worry about, and I don't recall him saying anything too dangerous to the second, but I do agree with the overall sentiment.

jW

 

He means Ardent Kadash. I disagree it was a weak moment. Ardent Kadash was a former soldier and one of Dalinar's trusted friends. He also happens to be Adolin's former tutor and he refers to him as "Bright One" as opposed to "Brightlord" in what appears to be an affectionate way. It is clear in text Kadash is fond of Adolin, so I doubt he'd go babbling around. It seems normal to me Adolin would seek the advice of his former teacher, a man he respects. He kinda needed someone to talk to... if not Ardent Kadash, who could he have asked? It was the safest bet. 

 

I am, for one, keen to see if Kadash will find what Adolin asked him to: information on the Radiants... 

[Jondesu]

Thanks, that's the one I couldn't remember. I do agree that no matter his feelings for Adolin and Dalinar, nothing said to Kadash could be assumed to be in confidence.

jW

[maxal]

Thanks, that's the one I couldn't remember. I do agree that no matter his feelings for Adolin and Dalinar, nothing said to Kadash could be assumed to be in confidence.

jW

 

Perhaps, but he sounded so genuine... 

 

I'll admit I rather like Kadash: the former badass soldier turned Ardent whom Dalinar entrusted to instruct his son and heir on the history of Roshar (and whatever else Adolin's tutoring days implied). His talk with Adolin, in WoR, led me to believe he is more faithful to the Kholins then the Ardentia, but it may be a false impression. 

 

I'll also admit he is one of my contender for our minor named KR we are supposed to see in book 3.

[EvilNuff]

I have two main complaints about how these stories were written.  (Also just want to point out that I love the series so even though I have complaints I still highly recommend the books to friends.)

 

First, the way Jasnah was "killed".  It was obvious that that as a character she had been built up too much, there was too much unresolved backstory and information to just kill her.  However, she had far too much information that, from a narrative's perspective, Shallon needed to discover on her own.  I just feel the way that it was handled was sloppy and transparent.  Brandon is a far better writer than this and it really bothered me.

 

Second, the entire character of Renarin and how others interact with him.  As written, he is a bigger problem for house Kholin than Sadeas and closer to a villain than Sadeas.  That is obviously not the intent of the character so again this is just extremely poor writing by Brandon in an otherwise fantastic book.  

[straits]

ctrl + f "expect" yielded a lot of results in this thread. I'm surprised no one posted this yet:

 

 

“Expectation. That is the true soul of art. If you can give a man more
than he expects, then he will laud you his entire life. If you can create an
air of anticipation and feed it properly, you will succeed.
“Conversely, if you gain a reputation for being too good, too skilled . . .
beware. The better art will be in their heads, and if you give them an ounce
less than they imagined, suddenly you have failed. Suddenly you are useless.
A man will find a single coin in the mud and talk about it for days, but
when his inheritance comes and is a accounted one percent less than he
expected, then he will declare himself cheated.”
Wit shook his head, standing up and dusting off his coat. “Give me an
audience who have come to be entertained, but who expect nothing special.
To them, I will be a god. That is the best truth I know.”

 

 

Sorry.

[AerionBFII]

Elhokar......In WOK he seems like a weak king with potential to grow....In WOR he 'IS' a weak king with 'NO' potential to grow..

Edited October 9, 2015 by WEZ313

[A Windspren]

I think it would have been cool if Roin was the one to take down Szeth. Instead of there being a fight that seemed to soley exist to show off the Syl-changing-into-every-weapon ability (seriously, she changed into at least 5 different weapons in a single chapter), it would have been more of the ordinary guy trying to do the right thing actually winning for once. Imagine if practically invincible Szeth was taken down by non-shardbearer Roin.

[maxal]

I think it would have been cool if Roin was the one to take down Szeth. Instead of there being a fight that seemed to soley exist to show off the Syl-changing-into-every-weapon ability (seriously, she changed into at least 5 different weapons in a single chapter), it would have been more of the ordinary guy trying to do the right thing actually winning for once. Imagine if practically invincible Szeth was taken down by non-shardbearer Roin.

 

Funny comment as I did prefer the Dalinar/Adolin/Szeth fight to the Kaladin/Szeth one. It was more tragic, more powerful than Kaladin crazy over-power spree through the air. The first fight, I was afraid for our boys, in the second, I was completely emotionally detached as it was clear Kaladin would win this time around. It was just a show-off of powers and it fell flat, to me.