The Identity of Dalinar’s Wife

[Confused]

In WoK, Dalinar notes that Ialai’s hair is “reportedly dyed.” He muses that she must not be full-blood Alethi, since Alethi hair “always bred true [that is, black], proportionate to how much Alethi blood you had. Foreign blood would mean stray hairs of another color.” (WoK, Kindle p. 752.) What are we to make of Adolin’s nearly blond hair, then, containing only flecks of black?

 

I make of it that Dalinar’s wife, and Adolin’s mother, is Vivenna. His hair is blond for one of two reasons.

 

(1) Vivenna passed along the Royal Locks to Adolin. Because everyone (including himself) views Adolin as the “golden boy,” his hair remains mostly blond, with black Alethi highlights. (Or at least he has enough of Vivenna’s mini-Divine Breath in him to have his hair color be blond – though I’m not sure how that would work.)

 

OR

 

(2) Adolin is not Dalinar’s son. As total speculation, he may be Vasher/Zahel’s son. According to Navani, Dalinar’s wife put off marrying Dalinar for three years of his courtship and then unexpectedly changed her mind. Hmmm…

 

Navani described “Shshshsh” as the perfect foil for Dalinar: "She fit you so well, never making inappropriate comments, never bullying those around her, always so calm...Though she wasn't very...[c]lever," she "fit [Dalinar] in temperament." (WoK, Kindle pp. 886-7.) Based on how Vivenna acted in Warbreaker, that description sounds just like her.

 

If Vivenna is the Kholin boys’ mother, it would explain why Zahel’s hanging around helping her sons learn to use shards. And one more item to consider: Zahel tells Kaladin that Renarin is the son of the “most powerful human on this…” (WoR, Kindle p. 261, emphasis added.) Kaladin knows about Dalinar. Why say this, and use the word “human” (not “man”), unless he’s really referring to Vivenna? Even more interesting, the statement implies that Vivenna may still be alive!

 

It’s possible that Renarin is Zahel’s son, and Zahel is the “most powerful human” on Roshar. It’s also possible that Zahel transferred breaths to Vivenna, making her more powerful than him. Or maybe Zahel is no longer human. (See this post speculating that Zahel was the Herald Ishar, the “Oathbringer.” If he is Ishar, then based on this post he is not human anymore but an identity spren.)

 

Perhaps it was Vivenna herself who told Dalinar he should forget about her and seek that boon from the Nightwatcher. Perhaps Dalinar knew she wasn’t dead and went to the Nightwatcher so he couldn’t reveal that information to anyone. Vivenna may have feigned her death ten years ago to accomplish something that she knew would take a while and require secrecy. That way, no one would follow her. (Alethi soulcast their lighteyes dead. Since soulcasting is secretive, I presume this was done in a private setting. Avoiding discovery of the hoax would not have been difficult.)

 

Vivenna Kholin. Not a lot to go on, but it seems to fit.

Edited July 20, 2015 by Confused

[natc]

Gold hair isn't strange. Iriali hair is solid metallic gold in coloration.

I would think that Zahel, being who he is, would at least know that humans aren't the only species here that have had some sort of social structure to gain power in. Listeners, Aimians . . .

[ParadoxicalZen he/him]

Vivenna was quite intelligent though, primarily because she was raised to deal with the Daes Dae'mar/Politicking of the Hallendren court as the betrothed of the God-King. Given the Nalthians innate investiture, it might conflict with Roshar shenanigans 

I'm not actually sure if Rosharans have innate investiture 

[Seloun]

The use of the word 'human' in this context is likely more representative of the speaker rather than the topic. Zahel's phrasing is much more likely to be indicative of the fact that on his original world, the distinction is highly relevant.

 

Even without that consideration, it doesn't require Zahel to be referring to Adolin's mother; it just requires Zahel not to unconsciously assume the most powerful individuals are men (or women). It's also not clear that that phrase really has to be taken as a literal truth in the first place, as opposed to slight hyperbole used in common adage (like 'leader of the free world').

 

Nothing of the rest of the scenes with Zahel and the Kholins seem to suggest any kind of deep relationship between the two. If Zahel is invested (no pun intended) in Renarin in any fashion, he does a really good job of hiding it. Zahel seems neutral at best about teaching Renarin, if not actually unhappy (he specifically mentions that he'd rather not be teaching Renarin); while I suppose this could be argued as 'acting' for Kaladin, I feel like looking for a connection there requires pretty convoluted assumptions without much textual support.

[Sand Master]

Vivenna seems like a possibility, though I felt that she and Vasher/Zahel probably had something going on, which would kind of exclude Dalinar. While I'm not ruling out Vivenna as an option, I think we should at least consider other people. Personally, I think it will be that she's not dead (if she wasn't going to be important, I think we would have heard her name from the POV of someone other than Dalinar), but also that she's someone we haven't yet seen or heard of.

[Confused]

I agree with you all that this is highly speculative. I've been doing a lot of speculation lately. (Seloun, look at my response to your other post.)

 

BUT - the principal piece of textual evidence is Dalinar's thoughts about Alethi hair. I believe this to be deliberate foreshadowing. Maybe Dalinar's observations were intended for some other purpose, like identifying Ialai as not fully Alethi. But why emphasize the proportionality of hair color based on blood? Brandon intends something.

 

No other Alethi we've seen has anything approaching that amount of blond hair. Based solely on this, It's fair to conclude that mostly blond hair is unusual in Alethkar.

 

Natc says the Iriali have golden hair. Yes they do. Putting aside earthly notions of dominant and recessive genes, we have to take Dalinar's observations at face value. Alethi black hair breeds true, proportionate to Alethi blood. Adolin's hair should have been half-and-half. It isn't. It's mostly blond.

 

Ergo...

[The Honor Spren she/her]

I don't know man. . . It makes sense. . . Kind of? Wouldn't Vasher feel more jealous? It seemed like there was going to be something between them in Nightblood . . .

And also Irali hair breeds true, just as much as Alethi. Perhaps, she was of purer royal blood than even Dalinar? That would be interesting.

Edited July 20, 2015 by The Honor Spren

[DreamEternal]

Natc says the Iriali have golden hair. Yes they do. Putting aside earthly notions of dominant and recessive genes, we have to take Dalinar's observations at face value. Alethi black hair breeds true, proportionate to Alethi blood. Adolin's hair should have been half-and-half. It isn't. It's mostly blond.

Ergo...

Nowhere it is said that it is fully proportional to the person's descent. There is probably a limited random element, wich would explain why Renarin has mostly black hair and Adolin has mostly golden hair without raising the doubt of why Dalinar didn't ask himself whatever they were both his children.

[WeiryWriter he/him]

First off:
 

Questioner

Are Renarin and Adolin Dalinar's legitimate children?

Brandon Sanderson

Good question! Yes, they are both legitimate. Though Renarin didn't get as much of the hair, which is probably what people are asking about.

 

(source)

 

Also Vivenna would not be able to pass on the Royal Locks to her children unless she were queen.

 

@Paradoxspren: Rosharans definitely have innate investiture.

[Confused]

Thanks, Weiry, for eliminating one of the two possibilities. Can you please cite a source for your Royal Locks statement, though? My search for "Royal Locks" on Theoryland suggests the opposite conclusion: that any Nalthian with sufficient investiture, including each of the Returned, can do the same things with their hair.

 

Also, why did Siri have the Royal Locks even when she wasn't destined to be queen of either country? And isn't the wife of Dalinar, Highprincess of Kholin, sister-in-law to the King (and hence a duchess) sufficiently "royal"?

 

Finally, I note that Brandon didn't answer your question at the March Reddit AMA. Your question asked whether a new ruling line could acquire the Royal Locks. That question, regardless of answer, doesn't address whether someone with the Royal Locks could pass them on to a child. Even if the answer to that is generally "no" (these are the "Royal" locks, after all), I'm still not sure why Adolin isn't sufficiently "royal" to get them from his mother (if she is his mother).

[WeiryWriter he/him]

Only the children of the monarch get the Royal Locks, which is why Siri and Vivenna have them, their dad is king.  However neither of them can pass it on to their children, only their brother, the heir can.
 
As for a citation, the reason it isn't in Theoryland is because it's in the book:
 

Vivenna shot a glance at Denth, and he nodded. So she shifted colors a couple of times. Grable watched intently, scratching at his beard.

“Nice,” he finally said. “Nice indeed. Where’d you find her?”

Denth frowned. “What?”

“A person with enough royal blood to imitate one of the princesses.”

“She’s no impostor,” Denth said as Tonk Fah continued to work on the plate of fried somethings.

“Come now,” Grable said, smiling with a wide, uneven smile. “You can tell me.”

“It’s true,” Vivenna said. “Being royal is about more than just blood. It’s about lineage and the holy calling of Austre. My children will not have the Royal Locks unless I become queen of Idris. Only potential heirs have the ability to change their hair color.”

[maxal she/her]

I agree with you all that this is highly speculative. I've been doing a lot of speculation lately. (Seloun, look at my response to your other post.)

 

BUT - the principal piece of textual evidence is Dalinar's thoughts about Alethi hair. I believe this to be deliberate foreshadowing. Maybe Dalinar's observations were intended for some other purpose, like identifying Ialai as not fully Alethi. But why emphasize the proportionality of hair color based on blood? Brandon intends something.

 

No other Alethi we've seen has anything approaching that amount of blond hair. Based solely on this, It's fair to conclude that mostly blond hair is unusual in Alethkar.

 

Natc says the Iriali have golden hair. Yes they do. Putting aside earthly notions of dominant and recessive genes, we have to take Dalinar's observations at face value. Alethi black hair breeds true, proportionate to Alethi blood. Adolin's hair should have been half-and-half. It isn't. It's mostly blond.

 

Ergo...

 

Brandon answered this already. Genetic had it so Adolin inherited a lot of golden hair and Renarin, a little. Adolin does seem as odd case though, I agree as fully blond heads are extremely rare in Alethkar, a fact reinforced by the number of third parties who comments on Adolin's hair coloring.

 

Weiry also posted the WoB confirming Adolin is Dalinar's son, though it is heavily implied he does not physically look like his father, but his mother.

[Zea mays]

*looks askance at Weiry*

 

How do you keep doing that?   Do you possess some manner of cybernetic enhancements that connect your consciousness directly to the database? Maybe a magic parchment archive? Were you bitten by a radio-active Google spider, causing your Sanderson-sense to tingle whenever anyone anywhere posts an answered question, so you can instantly shoot WoBs at them?

[Kelek's Breath he/him]

Brandon answered this already. Genetic had it so Adolin inherited a lot of golden hair and Renarin, a little. Adolin does seem as odd case though, I agree as fully blond heads are extremely rare in Alethkar, a fact reinforced by the number of third parties who comments on Adolin's hair coloring.

 

Weiry also posted the WoB confirming Adolin is Dalinar's son, though it is heavily implied he does not physically look like his father, but his mother.

One of the 3rd party who comments on the hair is Kaladin, who thinks to himself that Adolin's mother could have been from Rira due to the blond hair. We haven't seen anyone from there as of yet, since it far to the West, but I would accept kaladin's opinion, as it would be based on the books he read with his father.

[WeiryWriter he/him]

*looks askance at Weiry*

 

How do you keep doing that?   Do you possess some manner of cybernetic enhancements that connect your consciousness directly to the database? Maybe a magic parchment archive? Were you bitten by a radio-active Google spider, causing your Sanderson-sense to tingle whenever anyone anywhere posts an answered question, so you can instantly shoot WoBs at them?

 

hehe... This reminds of one time where a member (sorry don't remember who) mentioned to me how they always dreaded seeing me respond to their theories shortly after they are posted because I was like the Angel of Death.  Which, if I'm being quite honest, still pleases me to no end.

 

The thing is that I read pretty much every thread in this section of the forums and I have a fairly good memory.  Part of it is that in the past few years I've spent a not insignificant amount of time adding stuff to the database, as well as working on the Coppermind, not to mention I've transcribed a /lot/ of stuff.  As such I'm very familiar with the WoBs.  So when I read something, and I know Brandon has said something about it, I generally know what to search for or where to find it.  For example with the Adolin/Renarin being legitimate thing I happened to know that it was cited on the Adolin article, so it was very easy to find.

 

And of course I did recently get an upgrade to my spikes.

[The Sovereign]

Only the children of the monarch get the Royal Locks, which is why Siri and Vivenna have them, their dad is king.  However neither of them can pass it on to their children, only their brother, the heir can.

 

As for a citation, the reason it isn't in Theoryland is because it's in the book:

 

WeiryWriter, I think you may be falling into a bit of a trap here. You are assuming that Vivenna actually knows what she is talking about. It may just be me, but this very much seems to be something that Vivenna believes in her naive and bias to the point of prejudiced mind. Given her track record for simply believing what she is told [in the early parts of the book], can we really take her account as accurate? I suspect anyone who had the blood and a self image that viewed themselves as royal would actually have the royal locks.

As we know self image plays a large part in the physical realm representation of people as shown with Lopen's arm and Kaladin's slave brand.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Iron Eyes

[maxal she/her]

 

 

Nothing of the rest of the scenes with Zahel and the Kholins seem to suggest any kind of deep relationship between the two. If Zahel is invested (no pun intended) in Renarin in any fashion, he does a really good job of hiding it. Zahel seems neutral at best about teaching Renarin, if not actually unhappy (he specifically mentions that he'd rather not be teaching Renarin); while I suppose this could be argued as 'acting' for Kaladin, I feel like looking for a connection there requires pretty convoluted assumptions without much textual support.

 

On this one, about Zahel not initially wanting to teach Renarin but caving in due to Adolin's insistence, my thoughts have always been he did not want to tutored another Adolin and was afraid the younger brother would be worst than the elder. We have had hints Adolin was not an easy student, stubborn and uncooperative, until Zahel operated his magic and put the rebellious teenager back in line. What happened then? I guess we may never know.

 

However if any links exists between Zahel and the Kholin boys, it is indeed well hidden. It is clear Zahel took a liking to the family and wants their well-being. It is also clear he still regards Adolin as his student and his pupil even though he apparently has outgrown the need for a swordmaster. Why has Zahel attached himself to them? I hope we will find out, eventually.

 

So to answer the original poster questioning, I doubt there is a blood relation between Zahel, even if it's a relation through Vivienna. Zahel would be more protective of the kids if it were so and he would not have hesitate to tutor Renarin.