Long Game 13: Traitors on the Plains

[Orlok Tsubodai]

Ok, finally, a well evidenced post to which I can respond, and hopefully lay these issues to rest.

On the first issue issue which you find suspicious; my vote for Leif. Here, I appear to have caused suspicion by the apparent contradiction between cautioning against tunnel vision whilst voting for one of the four, and for not voting for Ren.

I would argue, here, however that there is not a contradiction. I was concerned with ensuring discussion of alternative suspicions. I had immediately prior to that event, had a discussion with Wilson as to the dangers of tunnel vision - those of you who have read the dead doc of Kasimir's MR will have noted my tunnel vision on her has earned me a place on her 'kill list'. I would argue though, that this position is not contradictory with my vote. I was of the view that whilst it was possible that another was responsible, and thus meritworthy of discussion, it was more likely that it was one of the four. Of these four, I admit to not having picked up that Macen was implying he had scanned Ren - and I was more convinced by the apparent overacting of leift, who I had not recalled seeing playing before, and thus classed as a more inexperienced player, than I was by the insistence of a single, as yet unreleased individual.

This I believe also addresses your later assertion that my post following Macen's reveal defending my views was inherently contradictory.

I did indeed attempt to direct discussion to Joe - as I would argue is completely understandable in a case where I am unconvinced by the explanation of an individual who I believe to be an eliminator - I would not be acting in either my, or the village's interests, should I allow such an individual to continue to hide in the shadows, once again no longer contributing, following a single post in which he purports to be a regular villager. Other's opinions on this may vary - and I did not want to create a lynch train without ensuring it was not merely my paranoia, so I invited others to respond so as to generate discussion of the issue, and a consensus before we either agreed or disagreed with his post - rather than the status quo, which appears to be just leaving him in a situation where he can remain not contributing or engaging, free from suspicion, whilst remaining active elsewhere on the forum.

I shall vote for Joe therefore. I do not wish particularly to be lynched, I would strongly advise that you lot do not lynch me, and I would also refer to my above suspicions of Joe to evidence my vote. I look forward to discussing further any suspicions you may have of me - and will be active for another half hour or so, and then again for another hour and a half 2 hours later, in which I can respond before the turnobef

[Mailliw73 he/him]

Clanky's been very quiet with only brief suggestions and comments, which is very unlike his typical playstyle. So my vote's going there for now.

[Emerald101 he/him]

Response, pojo style:

 

 

On the first issue issue which you find suspicious; my vote for Leif. Here, I appear to have caused suspicion by the apparent contradiction between cautioning against tunnel vision whilst voting for one of the four, and for not voting for Ren.
I would argue, here, however that there is not a contradiction. I was concerned with ensuring discussion of alternative suspicions.

 

 

With one hand you say there needs to be discussion of people other than the four, something this games eliminators have been known to do, while with the other hand you vote for one of the four, adding nothing whatsoever to discussion outside the four. I see a sharp contrast here between what you say needs to happen, and what you actually try to help happen. In hindsight, your post reads to me as a last-ditch attempt to get discussion off of the four, followed by a realization that it's not going to happen. You then find a (somewhat legitimate) excuse to try and get somebody else lynched first.

 

Additionally, you ignore one of the main points of my response there: you do something both of the eliminators we've caught are known to have don.

 

 I would argue though, that this position is not contradictory with my vote. I was of the view that whilst it was possible that another was responsible, and thus meritworthy of discussion, it was more likely that it was one of the four. Of these four, I admit to not having picked up that Macen was implying he had scanned Ren - and I was more convinced by the apparent overacting of leift, who I had not recalled seeing playing before, and thus classed as a more inexperienced player, than I was by the insistence of a single, as yet unreleased individual.

 

 

See above.

 

This I believe also addresses your later assertion that my post following Macen's reveal defending my views was inherently contradictory.

 

To be clear here: I was referring to your opinion that you defended during that post. I was reaffirming the point I'd made earlier in that post.

 

I did indeed attempt to direct discussion to Joe - as I would argue is completely understandable in a case where I am unconvinced by the explanation of an individual who I believe to be an eliminator - I would not be acting in either my, or the village's interests, should I allow such an individual to continue to hide in the shadows, once again no longer contributing, following a single post in which he purports to be a regular villager. Other's opinions on this may vary - and I did not want to create a lynch train without ensuring it was not merely my paranoia, so I invited others to respond so as to generate discussion of the issue, and a consensus before we either agreed or disagreed with his post - rather than the status quo, which appears to be just leaving him in a situation where he can remain not contributing or engaging, free from suspicion, whilst remaining active elsewhere on the forum.

 

 

I have my suspicions of Joe too (trust me, if we lynch you and you turn out to be a villager, I'm turning around and lynching Joe then and there.) but that's not the issue at hand. What I saw in your post was this: you come under danger of lynch, and start looking around for something to save yourself. You notice Joe's inactivity and think to yourself "Excellent, a way I can redirect suspicion in a way a villager would also do." Normally, I wouldn't think anything of this, but considering the other evidence. . .

 

Points from my first post you failed to adress:

 

• Commends Macen for finding diagramists, and wonders if those two being diagramists could clear other experienced players. Funny, didn't he just vote for somebody for doing this exact same thing? The first part of this post is an attempt to seem like a villager, the second, perhaps, an attempt to soft-clear other eliminators?​​​

• Votes for Eramit, because it looked like Eramit was trying to start a bandwagon on him. Again, voting for somebody after somebody after another player (Me, in both cases, but that's probably a coincidence.) puts some suspicion on that person. [A reference to another part of this post where I identify this as a prominent eliminator strategy. ]

 

Edit: fixed formatting error, made one point more clear.

 

Additional Comment:

 

what the heck, may as well post a vote tally:

 

Votes:

Kas notation:

• Idolevy(0): Mailliw<1>
• Bridge Boy(1): Twei<1>
• Orlok(2): Kipper<1>, Emerald <1>
• Phatt(0): Clanky<1>
• Clanky(2): Phatt<1>, Mailliw<2>
• Mailliw(1): Araris<1>
• Joe(1): Orlok<1>

Normal notation:

• Bridge Boy(1): Twei
• Orlok(2): Kipper, Emerald
• Clanky(2): Phatt, Mailliw
• Mailliw(1): Araris
• Joe(1): Orlok

Edited August 5, 2015 by Emerald101

[Orlok Tsubodai]

Thanks for responding.

On the issue of voting for Leif, I did not feel personally a larger suspicion of one of the other players to act upon my advice - I was concerned though that others with valid suspicions might not air them. It was, if you will, an attempt to get 'the best of both worlds' - to create discussion and consider possibilities, but also to vote for the one I deemed to be the most suspicious.

I presume you are referring to the trying to encourage discussion not just on the four when you talk of doing the same as our eliminators? I would put to you that it is entirely possible for the same action to occur from differing motivations: both hero and Ren tried to move discussion because they were eliminators, and Ren was under threat of lynching - my motivation, which led to the same action was due to a differing motivation - that of concern that we not tunnel in and ignore other possibilities.

On the commending Ren, I would argue the two circumstances to be rather different. Leift' post came after an unfortunate occurrence - and did not contain anything to add to the discussion. I would suggest there is a difference between commiserating following the death, and congratulating someone for finding not one, but two eliminators.

My point following that was intended to provoke discussion of the Meta - how teams at normally balanced - if we did indeed decide that the eliminators would not contain a large number of experienced players, at a stroke we could narrow down our suspect list - I am unfamiliar with Aonar's criteria, but was curious as to whether anyone else knew.

On that last point, I indeed voted after another player - partly because my time zone means the cycle has been going on for a while before I can respond, and partly because I had no greater suspicions - do you not agree that it would be unusual for me to vote for someone I think is more likely a villager simply because the individual I suspect has a vote? We're we to follow that further, we would never get a lynch..

[Clanky he/him]

Clanky's been very quiet with only brief suggestions and comments, which is very unlike his typical playstyle. So my vote's going there for now.

 

Yes I have been very quiet, however I'm not sure if it is really against my usual playstyle since I really vary from game to game. I spend a lot more time on the games when I am at school since it was a good way to procrastinate. I was even killed for inactivity in one game(MR5). Also in the one game I have ben a real eliminator(QF7) I actually attempted to be one of the main players in directing lynches.

[Guest]

I just have one request. People keep talking about placing "poke votes" on people. When one blatantly states that a vote is a "poke vote," the vote loses significant importance. So let's just all assume that a vote is a vote, yes? At the very least, please don't say something like, "I'm placing my poke vote on Person X."

[Orlok Tsubodai]

Ok, for the reason that simply I do not want to be lynched, as I am far more convinced of my own innocence, and usefulness to the village, than I am of Clanky, I am going to retract my vote from Joe and put it on Clanky. However, I maintain Joe is more suspicious than clanky, and would rather not be forced into doing this.

[Araris Valerian he/him]

So this is directed to Mailliw, to add to what I posted earlier. This is based off of your connection to ideas presented by Hero/Ren, since the Eliminators are the only people that can coordinate out of the thread. And it may not amount to much, but you are the person that I saw the most connections with.

Starting in cycle one, you echoed Renegade's suspicion of Idolevy. You also posted suspicion of Feligon, which Hero then mentioned in his own post shortly afterwards.

You missed cycle two, then came back on day 3 and mentioned the PM powers, right after Hero had discussed the same thing. Then you voted for PK, who Hero had also voted for in his previous post. Renegade mentioned suspicion of PK, but didn't vote for his own reasons.

Your next post retracts your previous vote, but one of the people you list as suspicious is Leif, who is killed to save an eliminator from the lynch

Hero brought up Idolevy again, which is another connection. (Your first post this cycle was a vote for Idolevy as well)

Then a vote on Hero, while also voicing a suspicion of Macen. Macen is revealed to be a KR shortly after and Hero is an eliminator.

So I'm not saying that you necessarily agreed or disagreed with the eliminators we have discovered. But a lot of the posts you made before they were revealed had some sort of connection with Hero and Ren, and those bits stuck out to me for you more than for any other player.

[Guest]

Araris, you raise good points, but I must disagree. I feel that if Hero, Ren, and Mailliw were all Eliminators together, they would recognize the risk of being too connected in posts and votes. I'm inclined to think that the examples you point out are mere coincidences.

[Macen he/him]

Current Vote count (I think I have it all there).
 

Idolevy (1): Mail

Bridge Boy (1): Twel

Phat (0): Clanky

Orlok (2): Kipper, Emerald

Clanky (1): Phat, Mail (never canceled idolevy vote), Orlok (Never canceled vote on Joe)

Mailliw (1): Araris

Joe (1): Orlok

[Guest]

Orlok did cancel his vote on Joe.

[phattemer]

You know, I see a whole lot more evidence for Orlok than for Clanky. The only reason is voted for him was because of something I didn't want public, and now he's getting lynched? I didn't want that, and don't particularly think he's a diagrammist. Because of that, I'll be voting for Orlok.

[Guest]

Oh boy! A tie! Now Clanky gets to break it!

Edit: G'night, people. I can't wait to see how this one turns out.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Guest

[Clanky he/him]

I agree with Macen that Araris's points are most likely coincidence but there could also be a chance of and Ren/Hero trying to make people suspicious of Maill by kind of agreeing with what he says. I think it is a very valid strategy for an eliminator to "buddy up" with a villager because if someone agrees with what you say you would be more likely to think they're innocent(at least it works on me). Also when they die the player the eliminator "buddied" with gets suspicion cast on them. 

 

Ok, for the reason that simply I do not want to be lynched, as I am far more convinced of my own innocence, and usefulness to the village, than I am of Clanky, I am going to retract my vote from Joe and put it on Clanky. However, I maintain Joe is more suspicious than clanky, and would rather not be forced into doing this.

 

I have to agree with Orlok that he has been more useful to the village this game then I have. I am still more convinced of my innocence than his but I still don't think he is a diagrammist. 

 

Joe however seems very off. Since his last post in this game he has posted 28!!! times in other parts of 17th shard including many times in QF9 so it isn't like he is avoiding SE completely. In his last post in this game he had reasons for inactivity and "kind of forgetting about the game":

 

1) He was planning and using his inactivity to avoid getting lynched.

Problems: Inactivity to avoid suspicion doesn't really help the villagers, it helps yourself stay alive and hurts the villagers attempts to gather info. This inactivity is now a planned thing when in the previous paragraph he said he forgot about the game.

 

2) He wanted to see who would use his inactivity to try and start a bandwagon on him.

Problems: Great idea! Except he never followed through... He "forgot" to put a vote on the person who seemed to attempt to start a bandwagon.

 

3) He has no role so doesn't get PMs from the GM to remind him.

Problems: In QF9 there are no roles therefore no GM PMs and yet he surprisingly hasn't forgotten about it.

 

 

EDIT: Bonus! Joe was reading the thread as I posted this yet hasn't said anything this cycle!

EDIT2: And of course as soon as I post this he comes out and posts. i mean like immediately without even having time to read my post.

EDIT#: Vote colour

Edited August 6, 2015 by Clanky

[Jo and the Bush all/any]

Disclaimer: There's still a large chunk of the game I haven't read. 

 

Clanky's been very quiet with only brief suggestions and comments, which is very unlike his typical playstyle. So my vote's going there for now.

And yet you ignore me? I'm doing the same thing.    I'm inclined to think that Clanky is a innocent Refugee, much like me, and has simply not gotten fully into this game, also much like me. Now he's doing the same thing Orlok is. Are they both Diagrammists?

 

Ok, finally, a well evidenced post to which I can respond, and hopefully lay these issues to rest.
On the first issue issue which you find suspicious; my vote for Leif. Here, I appear to have caused suspicion by the apparent contradiction between cautioning against tunnel vision whilst voting for one of the four, and for not voting for Ren.
I would argue, here, however that there is not a contradiction. I was concerned with ensuring discussion of alternative suspicions. I had immediately prior to that event, had a discussion with Wilson as to the dangers of tunnel vision - those of you who have read the dead doc of Kasimir's MR will have noted my tunnel vision on her has earned me a place on her 'kill list'. I would argue though, that this position is not contradictory with my vote. I was of the view that whilst it was possible that another was responsible, and thus meritworthy of discussion, it was more likely that it was one of the four. Of these four, I admit to not having picked up that Macen was implying he had scanned Ren - and I was more convinced by the apparent overacting of leift, who I had not recalled seeing playing before, and thus classed as a more inexperienced player, than I was by the insistence of a single, as yet unreleased individual.
This I believe also addresses your later assertion that my post following Macen's reveal defending my views was inherently contradictory.
I did indeed attempt to direct discussion to Joe - as I would argue is completely understandable in a case where I am unconvinced by the explanation of an individual who I believe to be an eliminator - I would not be acting in either my, or the village's interests, should I allow such an individual to continue to hide in the shadows, once again no longer contributing, following a single post in which he purports to be a regular villager. Other's opinions on this may vary - and I did not want to create a lynch train without ensuring it was not merely my paranoia, so I invited others to respond so as to generate discussion of the issue, and a consensus before we either agreed or disagreed with his post - rather than the status quo, which appears to be just leaving him in a situation where he can remain not contributing or engaging, free from suspicion, whilst remaining active elsewhere on the forum.
I shall vote for Joe therefore. I do not wish particularly to be lynched, I would strongly advise that you lot do not lynch me, and I would also refer to my above suspicions of Joe to evidence my vote. I look forward to discussing further any suspicions you may have of me - and will be active for another half hour or so, and then again for another hour and a half 2 hours later, in which I can respond before the turnobef

Orlok's vote is very understandable on me. I have been very ignored because of what I posted. But I have been honest with everything I've said so far. It's also quite possible he was using me to save his own skin. However, Emeralds post has convinced me to vote for him.

 

That being said, there's a large chance I'll be inactive for the majority of the game. For a few reasons, the main ones being a lack of motivation and missing a large chunk of the game. Only lynch me if you have no other suspicions. Otherwise just have someone with a kill ability take me out. don't waste a lynch on me. (And only waste a kill if you have excess stormlight.) I'll try to be more active, but I doubt i will be. (I'm having a hard enough time being active in the Quick Fix.)

 

EDIT: Lol, Clanky Ninjaccused me. (Is that a real word? I'm making that a real word)

 

 

Joe however seems very off. Since his last post in this game he has posted 28!!! times in other parts of 17th shard including many times in QF9 so it isn't like he is avoiding SE completely. In his last post in this game he had reasons for inactivity and "kind of forgetting about the game":

Out of curiosity, how do I check things like that?

 

1) He was planning and using his inactivity to avoid getting lynched.

Problems: Inactivity to avoid suspicion doesn't really help the villagers, it helps yourself stay alive and hurts the villagers attempts to gather info. This inactivity is now a planned thing when in the previous paragraph he said he forgot about the game.

It was originally planned lurking, which turned into genuine inactivity.

 

2) He wanted to see who would use his inactivity to try and start a bandwagon on him.

Problems: Great idea! Except he never followed through... He "forgot" to put a vote on the person who seemed to attempt to start a bandwagon.

Yeah, cause I'd never actually checked to see who had voted me.

 

3) He has no role so doesn't get PMs from the GM to remind him.

Problems: In QF9 there are no roles therefore no GM PMs and yet he surprisingly hasn't forgotten about it.

I was already well invested in QF9 from cycle one, so i didn't need the reminder.

 

EDIT: Bonus! Joe was reading the thread as I posted this yet hasn't said anything this cycle!

Like I said, you ninja'd me.

 

 

Edited August 6, 2015 by The Only Joe

[Araris Valerian he/him]

Well Clanky, the thing is that in some of the situations I pointed out Mailliw acted first, and in some Hero/Ren acted first. So I doubt any intentional buddying up was going on. Especially since Hero and Ren didn't know they would be ousted so early (I assume). I'm not saying that all of these events are anything besides coincidence, but in the absence of someone making a blatant lie or having contradictory behavior I think we should look toward the information we have from previous lynches and put it to use. Ultimately, the eliminators are working as a team, so we should be able to find some hints of who they are by connecting them to other players.

Edit: Now that I re read your post you don't even take into account the possibility that I am right. You just say that you think it is coincidence or even a plot that the eliminators might have had. This actually seems even more suspicious to me than anything I have seen posted this cycle. Mailliw Clanky

Edited August 6, 2015 by Araris Valerian

[Clanky he/him]

I agreed with Macen that it is probably a coincidence and then brought up a potential third option I didn't say that you were definitely wrong that they were working together.

 

EDIT: To avoid double post

I didn't want to have to vote for you Orlok but I know I am innocent and I can't be sure about you.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Clanky

[Metacognition he/him]

And the day is over! I'll have the results up in a minute. The write up will have to be written in later, as usual, but this way you guys can get started on the night. 

[Metacognition he/him]

Night Six: Preservation of the Martyr

 

The camp awoke slowly, the night had been noisy and very few refugees had slept well.

 

Kip Sturm woke and started heading for the edge of the camp for his morning ritual of losing some water weight. He wished they could get where they were going. He wasn’t a fan of standing so close to the chasm while taking care of his business, but they were moving so often that Latrines just weren't a realistic option.

 

He was about 10 feet from the edge of the chasm when he stepped down over a ledge and noticed a body a few feet away. Citona?

 

“Well this isn’t good,” thought Kip. “I was sure that they were going to go for Ace, that’s why I was so adamant about him being protected!”

 

Kip decided to head back to camp and gather everyone to see if they could figure out who had killed Citona.

Kip was about 100 feet away from the camp when he saw a refugee standing over a body in the middle of an odd looking patch of rock.

 

“What’s going on over there?” Kip shouted.

“Ace is dead!” The man responded.

 

“What?” Thought Kip. He had just had a private meeting with Ace last night, and he had been fine. He was also certain one of the other radiants was looking out for him. Kip headed towards him.

 

When Kip got closer he realized that Orlok was the one who had shouted back to him.

 

“We better gather everyone”, Kip stated.

 

A few hours later, everyone was gathered around discussing who they thought the suspects were.

 

Kip started out, “I had a meeting with Ace last night, and he said that he was suspicious of Citrona. I told him my doubts, but I don’t think that the traitors killed her. I think that was one of us. He also let me know who his squire is, which I will keep a secret for obvious reasons.”

 

“He was also in contact with me. I told he shouldn’t be worried about her. She always seemed to be somewhere else when I was around her. I don’t think she was all there.” Madon coughed, “If you know what I mean.”

 

Torren chimed in, “I think that Akirsefatafesrika is very suspicious. He was adamant that Bartholomew had not contacted a traitor, which Ace proved wrong. Also, who would name their child Akirsefatafesrika anyways.”

 

Everyone stopped and looked at him like he was being rude. Torren sat down and was quite the rest of the meeting.

 

Kip raised his voice, “Orlok was the first one to find Ace, I think that he is actually a traitor and didn’t have time to get away before I found him.”

 

Orlok responded, “Kip Sturm! That’s absurd, you were out further away from camp than I was! Plus, I saw Sani running away from the area before I got there!“

 

Em raised his voice, “Orlok sleeps in the tent next to mine, I heard him get up and leave early last night, and never heard him come back!”

 

At this point all of the refugees were looking at Orlok. One of them reached for Orlok’s shoulder and something jumped out of his cloak and hit the refugees hand.

 

“Ebenezer!” Orlok shouted, “I told you to stay hidden!”
 

“But this thing” Ebenezer responded, “is attempting to mess up the Diagram!”

 

Everyone stopped and looked at Orlok.

“Thanks Ebenezer.. thanks a lot.” Orlok sighed and sucked in stormlight.

 

Everyone looked at Orlok as he began to glow. Then, poof, he disappeared….

 

*****************************

 

Orlok was back in his tent rummaging through his belongings trying to find the paper he was given from his superior with the names of the other Diagramists in the camp.

“I told you that you should have burned that long ago!” Ebenezer chirped at him.

 

“You know that ever since that accident” Orlok pointed at his gimp leg, “My memory hasn’t always been the best.”

 

“I told you I could remember for yo…” Ebenezer went quiet.

 

All of a sudden a cluster of pebbles came shooting through the tent trailing stormlight.

 

“They have found us!” Ebenezer whispered, “Grab the papers and let’s go!”

 

Within moments the tent collapsed as hundreds of pebbles tore through it. Luckily for Orlok, he had already transported himself.

 

*****************************

 

Down in the chasm Ebenezer looked at Orlok with obvious disapproval on his tiny face. “What are we doing down here, why didn’t you teleport us off these storm-forsaken plains?”

 

“I didn’t have enough stormlight, I used up almost all of my spheres chasing the Radiant who helped Ace last night!” Orlok replied.

 

Orlok began looking around hoping he could find a few spheres that may have been left over from the battles that had previously happened above. About 50 feet away he noticed a faint glow.

 

Orlok began walking with Ebenezer sitting on his shoulder. As he came around the corner he noticed a shredded corpse on the floor about ten feet back. The faint light was spilling out from a tear in a pouch at its waist.

 

As they approached the corpse Orlok sucked in his breath. “Eradin?”

 

At that moment, there was a scraping and clicking noise above them. Orlok failed to notice the cavern in the side of the chasm. He was too focused on the Chasmfiend rushing down towards them.

 

He began sprinting towards Eradin’s corpse, but his bad leg gave out and he crashed into the ground. Ebenezer let out an odd grunting noise and immediately formed into a blade in Orloks hand. Orlok held the blade up, pointed right at the head of the oncoming Chasmfiend.

The Shardblade pierced through the mouth of the chasmfiend, but the matable of the chasmfiend also pierced Orlok’s heart. As Orlok died, a crumpled piece of paper with the names of his fellow Diagramists slipped out of his hand onto the floor of the chasm.

 

---

 

Orlok Tsobodai was lynched! He was a Diagramist Elsecaller!

 

Votes: 

Orlok (5): Sani, Seixa, Kip, Em C., Cla

Cla (2): Orlok, Wol

Akirsefatafesrika (1): Torren

Findilti Findilt (1): Madon

 

 

You have 24 hours to get your night actions in; unless an extension is called. 

Edited August 6, 2015 by Metacognition

[Jo and the Bush all/any]

Didn't actualy see that coming. What was the estimate for the numbers of diagramists?

[Clanky he/him]

I was actually kinda thinking that no matter which way we went an innocent was going to die. I suppose this also gets rid of Joe as my biggest suspicion since he voted for Orlok when he could have just as easily swung the vote over to me. Also thank you to the lightweaver/elsecaller who decided to kill Orlok instead of me. You made the right choice.

[phattemer]

So there should be a highstorm next turn, anyone got plans for that?

Edited August 6, 2015 by phattemer

[Clanky he/him]

Probably just going to hang out inside a tent, have a few drinks, try and avoid being murdered. You know the regular stuff.

[Jo and the Bush all/any]

Probably read the rest of the game, and maybe RP, since I haven't done that in a while.

[Emerald101 he/him]

Didn't actualy see that coming. What was the estimate for the numbers of diagramists?

 

If I remember correctly, original estimates said six at most. If that's true, I highly doubt the Eliminators have any more KR. (They will, of course, have squires.) It'd be broken for the Eliminators to (effectively) have roles for all of their players, which is what it'd be if there were 6 diagramists and 3 were KR.