Brandon Tweaking Words Of Radiance

[Blaze1616 he/him]

Will the audiobooks be changed?  

 

Will the old ebooks be changed via an update?

[Green Hoodie Mistborn he/him]

Will the old ebooks be changed via an update?

 

I just asked him that in a tweet... i'll let you know if he replys

[CabbageHead he/him]

Although this is a great alternate scene, I'm going to be that guy and tell you that what you've quoted is not Vader's line...

 

To contribute to the topic at hand though, Changing the "fabrial" to "Surgebinding" makes the scene more confusing if Nalan still used a Regrowth fabrial.

 

I would have to assume that it is just an issue of using language that the character in question would be more likely to use.. The word "fabrial" is likely a modern one, for a fabricated device capable of surgebinding. Nalan is one of the original 10 surgebinders in the world, and was probably using surges for millennia before the invention of fabrials. I think that particular change is just character appropriate nomenclature.

 

Edit: to expound on that slightly further, a doctor would say that something can be done for a patient through a particular surgery, without making particular reference to the tools used in that surgery. Nalan is a surgebinder, and will think in terms of the surges independent of devices that replicate certain aspects of particular surges. Modern humans on Roshar can only access the surges through their fabrials, and so would think of them as objects of wonder in and of themselves, whereas to Nalan they are likely just tools, thought of in much the same way a techie will think about having a crimper, multi-meter, leatherman, etc. near him at all times. They all allow you to do things, but are in and of themselves completely mundane and rely upon the abiltity of the person using them.

Edited March 6, 2015 by CabbageHead

[Seerow]

Can I be the first here to say "Kaladin Stabbed First"?

[Sirce Luckwielder he/him]

I know that I am a little late to the party, but here are my thoughts on the blade severing Szeth's bond. We know that investiture disrupts other investiture. Even though Szeth's Blade is an Honorblade, it is not a live spren. I think this means that Kaladin's Blade has more investiture since Syl is alive. Because of these hypothetical regenerating properties of living Shardblades, Kaladin could heal from the wound Szeth gave him. The investiture he had was stronger than Szeth's since he had a living spren. Since Szeth doesn't have a living spren, Kaladin's investiture overwhelmed his, causing his bond to break.

[WeiryWriter he/him]

I know that I am a little late to the party, but here are my thoughts on the blade severing Szeth's bond. We know that investiture disrupts other investiture. Even though Szeth's Blade is an Honorblade, it is not a live spren. I think this means that Kaladin's Blade has more investiture since Syl is alive. Because of these hypothetical regenerating properties of living Shardblades, Kaladin could heal from the wound Szeth gave him. The investiture he had was stronger than Szeth's since he had a living spren. Since Szeth doesn't have a living spren, Kaladin's investiture overwhelmed his, causing his bond to break.

 

As I mentioned in post 17, Szeth willing broke the bond himself, Kaladin did not sever it with Syl.

[Kelsier Kenobi]

Can I be the first here to say "Kaladin Stabbed First"?

I think you are.  You should tweet that at Brandon.

[PeterAhlstrom he/him]

For those interested here are all the changes made in the new edition:

That list leaves out one change in Szeth's conversation with Nale.

[Sirce Luckwielder he/him]

As I mentioned in post 17, Szeth willing broke the bond himself, Kaladin did not sever it with Syl.

I think you meant post 11. Thanks for drawing my attention to that, I missed it the first time that I went through.

[WeiryWriter he/him]

That list leaves out one change in Szeth's conversation with Nale.

 

Oh right, now I remember you saying there was something missing from that list on Twitter a while back... Oops.

 

I think you meant post 11. Thanks for drawing my attention to that, I missed it the first time that I went through.

 

You are correct.

[Green Hoodie Mistborn he/him]

As confirmed by Peter on my twitter feed, the updates and changes in the ebook will supercede/overwrite existing copies/versions. 

[Left he/him]

As confirmed by Peter on my twitter feed, the updates and changes in the ebook will supercede/overwrite existing copies/versions. 

 

And this is why you buy the hard cover boys, no Ruinous rewriting of history   And so you can get them signed

[kari-no-sugata]

Question for anyone with ebook version - have you seen any updates ever? I've never seen ebook updates for all of Brandon's books I have as ebooks but I've seen like 3 for "Rising Steam". I dunno if it's because I have the UK ebook version and we don't get updates in this case or that there's just never been any.

Edited March 6, 2015 by kari-no-sugata

[Green Hoodie Mistborn he/him]

And this is why you buy the hard cover boys, no Ruinous rewriting of history   And so you can get them signed

 

Yeah, I have them both so i get the best of both worlds! Kaladin stabs first AND slightly better characterization of Kaladin!

 

Question for anyone with ebook version - have you seen any updates ever? I've never seen ebook updates for all of Brandon's books I have as ebooks but I've seen like 3 for "Rising Steam". I dunno if it's because I have the UK ebook version and we don't get updates in this case or that there's just never been any.

 

I can't remember any updates to Brandon books, but I've had updates to other books before. 

[GrainofaRiver]

I find myself really struggling with this. It's not so much WHAT has changed, more that it has changed at all. It's really upsetting to me because I'm suddenly looking at my copy of Words of Radiance differently. This isn't a simple copy edit, the actual content is different. In my version Kaladin kills Szeth, which is now canonically wrong. If I want a 'correct' version, then I will need to purchase another hardback, which isn't exactly cheap.

 

It's also upsetting to me because I no longer have any faith in future releases. If Words of Radiance needed to be changed - if the initial version of Words of Radiance was really so wrong that it needed to be fixed - then what about the initial versions of future releases? Can I safely buy book 3, or should I wait for a year to see if a 'correct' version comes out? I've never even had to ask myself that question regarding books.

 

 I'm aware how harsh 'wrong' sounds for what is ultimately a few changed sentences, but I really can't think of a better way to put it. Clearly Sanderson felt those sentences were important enough to be changed, else he wouldn't have changed them. If the sentences are that important to him, then they are important to me. However my copy of Words of Radiance does not have those important changes. My copy of Words of Radiance is wrong.

 

 I'm really struggling with this, to the point where I made this account because I need to discuss it with other people. For me it's enough to question if I should continue purchasing these books. I love this series. I don't want to quit reading it. Yet if what Sanderson releases to us is so wrong that he feels the need to change it, I find it hard to faithfully purchase his novels.

 

 I apologize for such a negative post, but I needed to get this off my chest.

Edited March 7, 2015 by GrainofaRiver

[hoser he/him]

Welcome!  Introductory upvote!

Your feelings are perfect, of course. 

I have choices about how to judge things. 

One alternate thought is that I am buying the experience of the storytelling.  I am getting a free edit.  The dead trees in my bookshelf are obsolete in some sense, but the version in my head is closer to the story Brandon wanted to tell me.  He cares enough about my experience of the story that he wants to tell that he wants it updated. 

You can be mad at him for changing it or getting it wrong in the first place.  Nothing wrong with that. 

 

Thanks for caring enough to communicate. 

[Zas678 he/him]

One way to look at it is that he's released , FE, WoA, HoA, AoL, WB, Elantris, WoK, WoR, GS, ToM, AMoL, Steelheart, Firefight, Legion, Legion 2, Steelheart The Rithmatist, Alcatraz 1,2,3,4, Emperor's Soul, Shadows of Silence, That other short story with the magic parrots, and more. Out of those 22 stories, he's found 1 major canonical event he feels he needs to change. I don't think this will be a regular event for him.

 

Something you could do to own a "correct" copy is to buy the paperback. Or the ebook. 

 

Or you could just type the text for those pages, print them, and then just paste them in. That'd work too.

Edited March 9, 2015 by zas678
Had Steelheart twice, and not Rithmatist. Thanks Rubix!

[Claincy he/him]

 

it’s an important plot point for the series that dead Shardblades cannot heal the soul, while living ones can.

We're still missing something here.

 

In the fight between Szeth and Kaladin Kaladin gives Szeth the following injuries:

-stabbed in the shoulder with Syl, not enough to disable the arm, "The strike to the shoulder hadn't fully severed the soul leading to the arm". The text says "Indeed, he didn't try to heal his shoulder-which would have required a lot of light-" As we are from Kaladin's perspective it's possible that Kaladin thought Szeth could heal it and is wrong. Szeth isn't mentioned as healing it once they enter the storm and have effectively unlimited stormlight, but Kaladin also makes no mention of it not being healed. As he thought Szeth would be able to heal it (whether he actually can or not) you would expect that he might mention it if he noticed that Szeth didn't in fact, heal it. I'm not sure how obvious the injury was though.

 

-"Kaladin spun around and slashed his spear-which became a sword-through Szeth's foot." I am guessing that cut just killed the foot not the whole leg but I don't think we know for certain.

 

-"Kaladin swung down and a hammer appeared in his hand, crashing into Szeth's shoulder, breaking bones" This one has always confused me a bit, I'm guessing it doesn't cut through Szeth because people don't expect a hammer to cut?

 

-"As stormlight tried to heal the assassin, Kaladin pulled in close and slammed his hand against Szeth's stomach, a knife appearing there and digging deeply into the skin. He sought the spine."

 

On the next page: "Szeth slowed, his wounds healing."

 

So he definitely healed wounds made by a shardblade (or Kaladin was mistaken somehow I guess?). The blow to the shoulder from the hammer appears to have just broken bones so that's well enough to heal. But the other injuries were definitely cuts with Syl. So what are we supposed to think here? Can stormlight used through honorblades heal flesh wounds caused by a shardblade but not limbs that have been cut through? That seems a little inconsistent to me but also seems to fit with what he said. Except that the part that was changed doesn't really relate to that. This healing is still in the new edition. The only difference is whether Szeth was stabbed through the wrist or through the spine.

 

Considering this from another angle; to my knowledge an honorblade really isn't a "dead" shardblade, so why does Brandon's comment even relate to the current situation? Was it just poor choice of wording? Did he mean to include honorblades in that statement? Or is there something we don't know about how the honorblades were made? But we know that it isn't a dead spren, unless it's somehow dead enough that living spren can't detect/feel that it was once a living spren. This sounds like a stretch to me.

 

Is it saying that with enough stormlight a knight radiant could heal from having their spine hit with a shardblade? That seems the most literal interpretation of Brandon's words, but sounds like it wouldn't work too well narratively.

 

Yeah, I'm confused.

[GrainofaRiver]

One way to look at it is that he's released , FE, WoA, HoA, AoL, WB, Elantris, WoK, WoR, GS, ToM, AMoL, Steelheart, Firefight, Legion, Legion 2, Steelheart, Alcatraz 1,2,3,4, Emperor's Soul, Shadows of Silence, That other short story with the magic parrots, and more. Out of those 22 stories, he's found 1 major canonical event he feels he needs to change. I don't think this will be a regular event for him.

 

Something you could do to own a "correct" copy is to buy the paperback. Or the ebook. 

 

Or you could just type the text for those pages, print them, and then just paste them in. That'd work too.

 

 With regard to your second paragraph, actually do own the ebook. As much as I love having a complete set of hardbacks, carrying a 1088 page hardback around a university campus is far from ideal. So yeah, I've already paid for the book twice, which I honestly don't mind. As I've established, I really do love this series. It just means that now my collection of hardbacks has a 'wrong' book, and fixing it would require a third purchase. For me it's matter of liking consistancy. It's great that e-readers can simply update the text, but it's upsetting when you dropped $20-$35 on the hardback, especially if you only intended to purchase the book once. I wanted to emphasise this in my initial post. The result may have been misleading, and I apologize for that.

 

 Regarding the first paragraph, that's a fair point. Now that I've had the opportunity to voice my opinion, I feel far better. I still don't like the idea of changing something that has already released, but I'm willing to wait and see if this becomes a regular thing. I hope I didn't come off as irrational in voicing my disaproval, and I thank everyone for tolerating it.

Edited March 7, 2015 by GrainofaRiver

[Rubix he/him]

One way to look at it is that he's released , FE, WoA, HoA, AoL, WB, Elantris, WoK, WoR, GS, ToM, AMoL, Steelheart, Firefight, Legion, Legion 2, Steelheart, Alcatraz 1,2,3,4, Emperor's Soul, Shadows of Silence, That other short story with the magic parrots, and more. 

 

You mean The Rithmatist?

[bschnebs he/him]

I find myself really struggling with this. It's not so much WHAT has changed, more that it has changed at all. It's really upsetting to me because I'm suddenly looking at my copy of Words of Radiance differently. This isn't a simple copy edit, the actual content is different. In my version Kaladin kills Szeth, which is now canonically wrong. If I want a 'correct' version, then I will need to purchase another hardback, which isn't exactly cheap.

 

It's also upsetting to me because I no longer have any faith in future releases. If Words of Radiance needed to be changed - if the initial version of Words of Radiance was really so wrong that it needed to be fixed - then what about the initial versions of future releases? Can I safely buy book 3, or should I wait for a year to see if a 'correct' version comes out? I've never even had to ask myself that question regarding books.

 

 I'm aware how harsh 'wrong' sounds for what is ultimately a few changed sentences, but I really can't think of a better way to put it. Clearly Sanderson felt those sentences were important enough to be changed, else he wouldn't have changed them. If the sentences are that important to him, then they are important to me. However my copy of Words of Radiance does not have those important changes. My copy of Words of Radiance is wrong.

 

 I'm really struggling with this, to the point where I made this account because I need to discuss it with other people. For me it's enough to question if I should continue purchasing these books. I love this series. I don't want to quit reading it. Yet if what Sanderson releases to us is so wrong that he feels the need to change it, I find it hard to faithfully purchase his novels.

 

 I apologize for such a negative post, but I needed to get this off my chest.

We have most of the changes above...if you're really worried about your copy being wrong now, you can go edit them yourself...that way you'll always know how they originally were and the corrections.

 

I doubt we'll see this sort of thing very often.  This was a learning experience for Sanderson and in the future, he'll most likely keep the book true to his vision of the characters and find a way to make the words work rather than put in characterization that he's not happy with.

 

EDIT:  heh...both my points were ninja'd

Edited March 7, 2015 by bschnebs

[Honor's Radiance]

I'm also interested about the shardblades.  His wording makes it a little ambiguous.  I think he means that you cannot be healed from a wound inflicted by a dead shardblade but you can be healed from one inflicted by a living blade.  But his wording suggests that the living shardblades actually have spiritually healing properties.  Anyone else wondering about this?

 

I think it's dependent on the Blade you wield rather than the one to whom you are bonded.

 

Theory: Brandon has said, referring to the original sequence: "...dead shardblades cannot heal the soul, while living ones can." Kaladin has healed himself from Blade wounds because Syl is alive. In the original sequence, Kaladin kills Szeth with Syl, and Szeth cannot heal himself. Szeth wields an Honorblade. The Honorblade must be equivalent to a dead Shardblade.

 

The easiest explanation is that the Honorblade is not a spren and thus does not have the same properties for healing the soul. But, why call it dead if it is simply inanimate? We've already see that the Stormfather calls himself the Almighty's "spren, you might say"--what if there are multiple of these "spren, you might say"s, larger Splinters of Honor that function exactly like Shardblades because they are exactly like Shardblades? We know the Shardblades originally had no fabrials attached with which they were bonded, just like Szeth's doesn't.

 

What if they died when the Oathpact was broken, just like the spren died during the Recreance? And if so, is Taln's still alive? Or if they died when Honor died since (if my chronology is right) that happened after the Oathpact was broken, and they wouldn't have had something like the highstorms to tie them to the physical realm and preserve their life in the same way. (And we already know the Stormfather is nuts. Syl implies that whatever killed the spren broke him as well in some way, that he wasn't always like this. So there's precedent for the larger Splinters of Honor being endangered by this sort of situation, as well as precedent for them being Nahel bonded--see Dalinar.)

 

No, the way I interpret the whole thing is that as a Surgebinder, your ability to heal comes from your spren - who is also your Shardblade, once you progress far enough. So if you have a living Shardblade, you are "Radiant enough" to be able to heal yourself from Blade-inflicted wounds, you can heal your soul. Szeth couldn't do that - the Honorblade he wielded gave him the ability to Surgebind, and also allowed him some basic healing, but something as advanced as restoring his Spiritweb, it couldn't do. 

 

This is essentially what I was going to say, though I think I'm more inclined to say that the agency for the healing comes directly from the spren rather than from the Radiant's use of Light. Come to think of it, I wonder what the Recreance/mass murder of the spren did to the Radiants' souls? If a living spren, or at least a Nahel bond with one, can effect healing of the soul, can the interaction go the opposite direction? Would killing a spren have some injurious effect on a Radiant's soul? After all, it's already been stated that a Radiant can revive a spren to whom s/he was bonded.

 

So he definitely healed wounds made by a shardblade (or Kaladin was mistaken somehow I guess?). The blow to the shoulder from the hammer appears to have just broken bones so that's well enough to heal. But the other injuries were definitely cuts with Syl. So what are we supposed to think here? Can stormlight used through honorblades heal flesh wounds caused by a shardblade but not limbs that have been cut through? That seems a little inconsistent to me but also seems to fit with what he said. Except that the part that was changed doesn't really relate to that. This healing is still in the new edition. The only difference is whether Szeth was stabbed through the wrist or through the spine.

 

My guess is that the flesh wounds can be healed like any other flesh wound--it's the wounds to the soul that require a living spren to mend. I think this is going to be very, very related to the idea that a Nahel bond has the potential either to heal or to widen the cracks in a broken person. Whatever makes it capable of that is likely what makes it capable of the physical manifestation of that (literally healing wounds to the soul).

[otac]

Sure, but why change the wording from fabrial when we (as readers) already know, and can infer that Regrowth fabrials exist?  Saying 'the right Surgebinding' would suggest that the method Nale used was the actual power (presumably via an Honorblade) rather than what he tucked away.  While there are fabrials that, strictly speaking, can duplicate Surgebinding, the change doesn't make it clear what the source of this particular use Surgebinding was, and arguably obfuscates matters more.  I just don't see the point of the change when the previous text was rather clear about how Szeth was healed, I guess.

 

I've started to wonder whether or not the Heralds may all be able to preform alot of the surges inherently, and are not limited to their blades, perhaps more accurately the blade only carry a memory of what the heralds used most actively. It would explain how so many heralds managed to survive the final confrontation in the prologue despite the honorblades seemingly lesser ability to heal then radiants power allow for. Not to mention the fact that the heralds seemingly won desolations even before they had radiant support, indicating they are significantly more powerful.

Edited March 7, 2015 by otac

[Botanica she/her]

Another change is in chapter 88:

Original:

“Not if it is done before the brain dies. Like a drowned man restored to life with the proper ministrations, you could be restored with the right fabrial Surgebinding. If I had waited seconds longer, of course, it would have been too late.”

Replacement:

“Not if it is done before the brain dies. Like a drowned man restored to life with the proper ministrations, you could be restored with the right fabrial Surgebinding. If I had waited seconds longer, of course, it would have been too late. But surely you know this. Two of the Blades held by your people allow Regrowth. I suspect you have already seen the newly dead restored to life.”

I must apologize for that earlier tumblr post! Now that Brandon officially announced the tweaking, I think it's okay to post this here

Edited March 7, 2015 by Botanica

[kari-no-sugata]

I'll started to wonder whether or not the Heralds may all be able to preform alot of the surges inherently, and are not limited to their blades, perhaps more accurately the blade only carry a memory of what the heralds used most actively. It would explain how so many heralds managed to survive the final confrontation in the prologue despite the honorblades seemingly lesser ability to heal then radiants power allow for. Not to mention the fact that the heralds seemingly won desolations even before they had radiant support, indicating they are significantly more powerful.

 

I've had some thoughts on this kicking around based on the following sets of quotes:

 

Back in tWoK in the Baxil interlude we have this:

Or so he said when they dared talk about such things. The mistress had good ears. Strangely good ears.

 

We know that his mistress is Shalash who used to have the Honorblade with Surges for Illumination and Transformation (ie same as Lightweavers). We know from Pattern that the Illumination Surge can manipulate sound - the above quote is very likely suggesting that Shalash has supernaturally good hearing. She would still have a bond of sorts to her Honorblade so it could come from there but there's two other possibilities: that she gained it instantly as part of something related to her nature as a Herald and that she gained it over time after centuries of Surgebinding - it could be that all the Heralds are Surgebinding "savants", for example.

 

There's also this from Lift's interlude:

Something stirred inside of Lift. Like the little swirls of wind at the advent of a storm.

Darkness looked at her with a sharp motion. “Something is—”

 

Darkness (ie Nalan) could sense something in Lift - probably her Stormlight/Investure returning but maybe he could sense her emotions instead. Such an ability doesn't seem related to any Surge though it's hard to be certain. It could be a Herald specific ability or it could be an ability that develops over time.

 

Again from the Lift interlude:

She glanced down the hallway. She could swear he was glowing faintly, and he was certainly running too quickly.

 

Some have assumed that Nalan is doing this with an Honorblade but if he is then he's being very subtle about it. it could be that instead of using (say) 0.1-1% of the power of an Honorblade he is using 100% of his inherent abilities - ie he has gained the ability to do minor Surgebinding without an Honorblade. If we compare what he's doing here to proto-Radiants who have yet to swear any Oaths then he's at a similar level.

 

 

PS On a different subject:

I can't remember any updates to Brandon books, but I've had updates to other books before.

Thanks for the reply. Good to know.