Anniversary Game: In the Re-Wake of the Koloss

[Wyrmhero he/him]

The other alternative is that a Tineye is keeping quiet now and not sending a message in. I would agree though that it's more likely that one was a Mistborn.

 

Why did Kas die, of all people? He wasn't accusing that many people, and while he was a bit active in PMs, not as much as usual. But since he didn't have a Role, that would mean that, unless he lied to a player about having one, then he wasn't killed because of that, at least. That leaves two possibilities: Because he was experienced, or because an Eliminator had a connection to him (more useful if it's a connection inside this game than outside, as many people have a connection to Kas). I would be willing to bet far more on the experience than the connection, I think, since Eliminators tend not to just remove people who have accused them or anything like that.

 

My suspicions at the moment are actually directed towards the people that are suspicious of the people who voted for Satram's death. Would you say the same if it had been Karand who died, or Ashette, or Dom who had died? It's very easy to throw cheap suspicions around for the first death, but what else should we do? Aim for a no-lynch and get no infromation whatsoever? If you were suspicious of Eolhondras, fine, it was a late vote. Wilson I can also understand, since five hours before is still relatively late.

 

But why are you suspicious of me, Herwynbe? I find it hard to believe that you'd find me to be an accusation target based on the fact that I voted for the guy who was later lynched. I was the first vote, and for a long while, the only vote. In order for that to be an Eliminator setting up a lynch, I would need to either convince other people to follow my lead (and as Wilson has said, she never managed to properly reply to my thought in the PM, and no-one else discussed it either), or both myself and someone else would need to be getting people to vote for Satrams, since all the additional votes came in around three hours after I had logged off for the night. The third alternative is that both myself and Wilson are Eliminators. Either way, that would be sticking my neck (and probably someone else's too) out a lot for to get a single player on the first Cycle.

 

You didn't want to vote during the first Cycle, but are perfectly happy to take advantage of someone else voting in the first Cycle at the same time. It seems as though you don't want to contribute new evidence, and making counter-accusations is very easy for an Eliminator to do when we are at the low-information stage of the game. As such, I'm voting for Herwynbe.

 

As a small digression, let's aim for at least half the players voting this Cycle. I find it depressing that so few did not on the first day. Again, we need information. Information is everything, and those who refuse to contribute look more suspicious by the day.

[ostrichofevil he/him]

I'm suspicious of the people who voted for Satrams, because Satrams wasn't discussed during Day 1, so we don't know why they voted for him.  If I get a good reason why they voted for Satrams, I won't be as suspicious.

[Eolhondras he/him]

Jasnah, you said in the signups that you weren't going to be inactive, yet here we are. Silence got you a fair way through MR4 as a spy so perhaps after  the success there you are trying the same thing here as a spiked?

 

Agreed Wyrm, we need more people voting, and we need more people talking. 

 

Ostrich, who would you have preferred to die on day one? And speaking of good reasons, you still haven't given any, regardless, of value, for your vote on me. Even after being prompted at least twice. 

 

 

Edit: Blue

Should have realised he hasn't been on since the 28th.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Eolhondras

[little wilson she/her]

I'm suspicious of the people who voted for Satrams, because Satrams wasn't discussed during Day 1, so we don't know why they voted for him. If I get a good reason why they voted for Satrams, I won't be as suspicious.

I didn't give any good reason? Well that's news to me. I said his logic was faulty, and I backed that up. How is that not a "good reason"? If I'd said it was a gut reason and I wasn't sure why I found him suspicious but I was following my gut, would that have been a "good reason"? And yes, there are people who vote for--and lynch--players for that reason.

Sure, faulty logic isn't the best reason to lynch someone, but few lynches in the first cycle are based off solid reasoning. I'm not convinced anyone who had voted there at the end had "good reasoning" for their votes. The point is that most of them had some reason, which is all that can be hoped for.

I'm more concerned about the people who voted who didn't back up their votes with anything at all--like you, Ostrich--and those who refused to participate in the vote because they doesn't want to pull the trigger or whatever other reason--like Ash and Jain.

Since Wyrm wants voting, and I support that, I won't withhold it took the end this time, juggling multiple possibilities. Since Ostrich, my main suspect today, already has a vote on him however and I don't believe in bandwagons, I'm voting Ashette.

Suspicions pending (I have suspicions, I just need to get on a computer to put them down. I'm on my phone right now. Plus, I just woke up. The last time Tired!Wilson made a decision in this game, Awake!Wilson wanted to smack her face off)

[Herowannabe he/him]

The other alternative is that a Tineye is keeping quiet now and not sending a message in. I would agree though that it's more likely that one was a Mistborn.

Why did Kas die, of all people? He wasn't accusing that many people, and while he was a bit active in PMs, not as much as usual. But since he didn't have a Role, that would mean that, unless he lied to a player about having one, then he wasn't killed because of that, at least. That leaves two possibilities: Because he was experienced, or because an Eliminator had a connection to him (more useful if it's a connection inside this game than outside, as many people have a connection to Kas). I would be willing to bet far more on the experience than the connection, I think, since Eliminators tend not to just remove people who have accused them or anything like that.

My suspicions at the moment are actually directed towards the people that are suspicious of the people who voted for Satram's death. Would you say the same if it had been Karand who died, or Ashette, or Dom who had died? It's very easy to throw cheap suspicions around for the first death, but what else should we do? Aim for a no-lynch and get no infromation whatsoever? If you were suspicious of Eolhondras, fine, it was a late vote. Wilson I can also understand, since five hours before is still relatively late.

But why are you suspicious of me, Herwynbe? I find it hard to believe that you'd find me to be an accusation target based on the fact that I voted for the guy who was later lynched. I was the first vote, and for a long while, the only vote. In order for that to be an Eliminator setting up a lynch, I would need to either convince other people to follow my lead (and as Wilson has said, she never managed to properly reply to my thought in the PM, and no-one else discussed it either), or both myself and someone else would need to be getting people to vote for Satrams, since all the additional votes came in around three hours after I had logged off for the night. The third alternative is that both myself and Wilson are Eliminators. Either way, that would be sticking my neck (and probably someone else's too) out a lot for to get a single player on the first Cycle.

You didn't want to vote during the first Cycle, but are perfectly happy to take advantage of someone else voting in the first Cycle at the same time. It seems as though you don't want to contribute new evidence, and making counter-accusations is very easy for an Eliminator to do when we are at the low-information stage of the game. As such, I'm voting for Herwynbe.

As a small digression, let's aim for at least half the players voting this Cycle. I find it depressing that so few did not on the first day. Again, we need information. Information is everything, and those who refuse to contribute look more suspicious by the day.

Let's see here, where to start. I find it interesting that you seem to be ignoring half the things I've posted while level your accusations at me. You say I haven't contributed evidence? This is true. It is also true for everybody else in this game, because at this stage nobody has any real evidence (except the seekers and the spikeds, but they have been understandably withholding of what evidence they possess). The only thing I (or any of us) can contribute at this point in the game is logic, suspicions, reasonings, strategies, and support for those who are doing the same to the Spiked's detriment, and that I HAVE done in abundance.

As far as my suspicion of you goes, don't get too worked up. As I said before, I suspect EVERYBODY at this point, save for yours truly. I just happen to suspect you and Wilson and Eolhondras a little more since you were involved in the death of an innocent player. Not that much more, though. If I were to put values to it, I would say that Eolhondras has maybe a 45% chance of being spiked, and you and Wilson have a 30% chance of being spiked. Everybody else has a 24% chance of being spiked, because of math (26 players alive, -1 that I know is innocent, assuming 6 Spiked. 6/25=24%).

And yes, Wyrm, of the three lynchers you are the least likely of the three to be Spiked. The only reason I rank you as high as Wilson is because of your accusations against me being based on faulty logic and half-truths.

As far as me using the information gained by lynching goes to try to draw a few conclusions- isn't that what everybody wanted? Yes I argued for a no-lynch strategy, but that obviously isn't going to happen, so I am making the best out of the situation we have.

Speaking of which, here is one more pattern I've noticed in the votes, and it troubles me: last cycle we had a tendency to vote for people who were quiet, and then once they had given any sort of argument to explain themselves, we switched out votes to somebody new. This troubles me because it makes it easy for the Eliminators to sit back and hide, then when an accusation is brought against them, speak up enough to explain why we shouldn't lynch them, and as long as their reasons sounds plausible we'll switch votes and leave them alone. As for what to do about that- I'm not sure, but if you suspect someone, at some point you're going to have stick to your guns in spite of their counter-arguments.

That being said, I have to cast my vote for Eolhondras today.

Edited January 7, 2015 by Herowannabe

[Unodus he/him]

Well, if more evidence is what we need- and there is nothing to find in the Murder Scene, I guess our only source of information is from the Tineyes (sorry, I got them mixed up with Seekers for some reason... x.x). Has anyone made any breakthroughs on the cryptic messages?
The poem's hidden text seems to reflect the Tineye's opinion on other players- from what I can gather (but who they refer to, I do not know).

The "Another Secret" puzzle is beyond me entirely, perhaps its not a puzzle at all and is just there to annoy us? :B

 

I think I'll wait until more arguments are presented till I decide on a final vote .3.;

Edited January 6, 2015 by Unodus

[Seonid he/him]

My suspicions at the moment are actually directed towards the people that are suspicious of the people who voted for Satram's death. Would you say the same if it had been Karand who died, or Ashette, or Dom who had died? It's very easy to throw cheap suspicions around for the first death, but what else should we do? Aim for a no-lynch and get no infromation whatsoever? If you were suspicious of Eolhondras, fine, it was a late vote. Wilson I can also understand, since five hours before is still relatively late.

 

Just for the record, I'd have been suspicious of any late lynch based on flimsy reasoning. I get that first-round lynches rarely have strong reasoning, but without it, stuff like this happens. To answer the question of what else should we do, I agree (with many others and contra Hero) that a first-round lynch should be a live option, in order to make votes have real pressure. But we gained a lot of information that first day because of only the pressure of a lynch. It was effective because the people that we voted for knew that it would turn into a lynch if they gave us reasons to do it. I honestly feel that a tie vote would have been a better outcome than Satrams lynch. Compared to the discussion during the day, where we got . So, in essence, my preferred strategy on the first day would be: use the threat of a lynch to pressure people into giving information, but only go through with it if there's good reason to. I get that others will disagree with me, but lynching for lynching's sake, without specific information we want to gain, seems a little reckless to me.

 

I am mildly suspicious of Eoladdin mainly because he voted late and determined the lynch on Satrams. I found his reasoning weak, (although no weaker than Wilson's original reasoning...but her post-hoc defense of her vote was a little more firm. I disagree with her reasoning, but I don't find it to be suspicious at the moment.) Since he's already got a vote on him, I don't want to bandwagon onto that, but if he doesn't respond to the vote he's already got and explain why he picked Satrams to die out of all of the options, I may well change my vote.

 

For now, my actual vote will go towards prompting an inactive to speak up. Macen, what do you have to say about all of this?

[little wilson she/her]

The joys of being on a computer and not on my phone....for example, multiquoting! I love this function....

 

Why did Kas die, of all people? He wasn't accusing that many people, and while he was a bit active in PMs, not as much as usual. But since he didn't have a Role, that would mean that, unless he lied to a player about having one, then he wasn't killed because of that, at least. That leaves two possibilities: Because he was experienced, or because an Eliminator had a connection to him (more useful if it's a connection inside this game than outside, as many people have a connection to Kas). I would be willing to bet far more on the experience than the connection, I think, since Eliminators tend not to just remove people who have accused them or anything like that.

 

I highly doubt Kas got involved at all with the role reveals going on, so I'm guessing no one knew he was a Regular, except when he hinted that he was here in the thread by saying that the lynch vote was the only way for Regulars to have their voices heard.

 

I disagree with your reasoning though. If the Spiked are hitting based on experience, there are far more likely targets. Kas is an experienced threat, yes, but he's not as high as me or you or Ren. He's on the same threat level as Maill and Joe, and they both have more experience than he does. Because of this, I don't think they hit him because of experience. I think they hit him because of some connection with him. It may be a connection via PM or something else. To my knowledge, Kas had personal, one-on-one PMs with at least me, Eol, Wyrm, and Ren. And I think it could be one of those, but not the one any of you are thinking (Eol).

 

Wyrm. Hero's already said your logic is faulty, but I want to actually get down to the details of it, because that post seemed off to me when I first read it when I woke up, but I wasn't sure why. Re-reading it and actually thinking more on the situation and everything, I know now.

 

Bare with me as I pick this apart.

 

My suspicions at the moment are actually directed towards the people that are suspicious of the people who voted for Satram's death. Would you say the same if it had been Karand who died, or Ashette, or Dom who had died? It's very easy to throw cheap suspicions around for the first death, but what else should we do? Aim for a no-lynch and get no infromation whatsoever? 

 

This is the only bit of this post that I agree with. Why? The people who are accusing those who voted for Sart are fairly suspicious, because I think they're trying to keep the focus on players I'm not entirely sure the focus should be on, for the most part. Lynches happen. That's a large aspect of the game. Another large aspect is defending yourself. If you're accused, defend yourself. Would you like to know who didn't? Sart. Would you like to know who could've? Sart. Would you like to know who should've? Sart. I posted 5 hours til the rollover, knowing I was voting for someone who had time to defend themselves. In my brief conversation with Eol about the voting, he mentioned that he was going to place his vote a few hours before the rollover, giving Sart time to respond. Both of us were expecting a response. I know I would've moved my vote, if he'd posted even a semi-adequate response. I'm pretty sure Eol would've too. And you want to know what even one of us retracting our vote would've done? Saved his life. No one would've gotten lynched. It would've been a tie. As far as I'm concerned, he deserved to die. That may sound cruel, but that's the way it is.

 

If you were suspicious of Eolhondras, fine, it was a late vote. Wilson I can also understand, since five hours before is still relatively late.

 

But why are you suspicious of me, Herwynbe? I find it hard to believe that you'd find me to be an accusation target based on the fact that I voted for the guy who was later lynched. I was the first vote, and for a long while, the only vote. 

 

You were the first vote, placed 12 hours before the rollover (11 am MST), ostensibly as a poke vote, since (according to the PM) you were seeing if he was feigning inactivity. I'm not exactly sure what you meant by this anyway, since he wasn't really feigning inactivity. He just wasn't posting, but he was online often enough (although he says he was busy in real life, which is understandable). He responded an hour later, delivering on the questions you asked. Did you remove your vote? No. Did you back it up with further suspicions or state why his response didn't satisfy your request? No. Did you have time to do either of these things? Yes. You said I voted three hours after you got off, so I'm guessing your last time online was about 3 pm MST, which makes sense, since that's about what? 11 pm for you? Maybe 10? Something like that....

 

The point is that you voted 4 hours before you knew you wouldn't be able to change anything. And you left that vote up when you went to bed knowing that he'd responded and you wouldn't be able to change it. Sure, you didn't know others would add a vote to that, but this isn't your first game. You know things happen. You know timezones are an issue. You know that once you go to bed, what you've done is set in stone. It's not changing. The rollover, for you, is when you go to bed. So exactly how does that make you any more innocent than me or Eol? A clue: it doesn't. You're just as much at fault.

 

The fact that you're trying to push it off as though you're not and not accepting any of the responsibility is interesting though. Very interesting.

 

In order for that to be an Eliminator setting up a lynch, I would need to either convince other people to follow my lead (and as Wilson has said, she never managed to properly reply to my thought in the PM, and no-one else discussed it either), or both myself and someone else would need to be getting people to vote for Satrams, since all the additional votes came in around three hours after I had logged off for the night. The third alternative is that both myself and Wilson are Eliminators. Either way, that would be sticking my neck (and probably someone else's too) out a lot for to get a single player on the first Cycle.

 

This is true. But I don't think the Eliminators were trying to be involved with the person lynched. I think they participated in the vote, voting for people they didn't think would collect many votes, if any beyond the one the Eliminator placed. That would show that they're participating in the game, so no one can get on their case or poke vote them at all. They're active. There's no reason to poke vote. So if you're an Eliminator, I don't think you were trying to set up a lynch. I think you're scrambling madly hoping that people don't look closely at you, pushing the blame off on the other two people who voted for him, because you're thinking "He wasn't supposed to be lynched!!" Obviously, that's assuming you're an eliminator.

 

 

I know I said my suspicions for Ash would be pending my time on an actual, physical computer with a real keyboard and not a touchscreen, but I have been swayed by the above evidence. If Ash is still interested in my suspicions of him, I can post it, but for now, Ashette. Wyra.

 

 

Speaking of which, here is one more pattern I've noticed in the votes, and it troubles me: last cycle we had a tendency to vote for people who were quiet, and then once they had given any sort of argument to explain themselves, we switched out votes to somebody new. This troubles me because it makes it easy for the Eliminators to sit back and hide, then when an accusation is brought against them, speak up enough to explain why we shouldn't lynch them, and as long as their reasons sounds plausible we'll switch votes and leave them alone. As for what to do about that- I'm not sure, but if you suspect someone, at some point you're going to have stick to your guns in spite of their counter-arguments.

 

Poke votes. It's become rather the norm lately, for better or for worse.  However, I do have a comment to make about this. You're pretty focused on those of us who voted for Sart, but you don't like poke votes. You realize that if people keep their votes on someone regardless of defense that it will result in a lynch, correct? Most likely? 

[Newan he/him]

Hi guys.  Today is day two of my hunt for a job.  I'm going to be checking in every day, seeing what has happened, but I don't have time to read the analysis posts in depth.  I won't be contributing very much to the discussion.  I'll be about as useful as an inactive.  I'm really sorry about that.  But unlike a true inactive, you can trust that in about a week, I will come back and be a contributing member of the game again.  I'm excited to play, but I just can't put my all into it right now.  

[Wyrmhero he/him]

Thank you for responding, Herwynbe. I have removed my vote for now. I'll have to agree that I am perhaps not reading peoples' arguments as closely as I should be. I think I may be a little out of practice, since it's been a while since I was alive long enough to examine arguments in a game. I'm probably also focusing a little too much on the people who didn't vote with my suspicions, at the moment. Not that I really know who I should be looking at closely, at the moment... I'll leave it for a little bit, for now, and have a better look when I've done some more work.
 

You were the first vote, placed 12 hours before the rollover (11 am MST), ostensibly as a poke vote, since (according to the PM) you were seeing if he was feigning inactivity. I'm not exactly sure what you meant by this anyway, since he wasn't really feigning inactivity. He just wasn't posting, but he was online often enough (although he says he was busy in real life, which is understandable). He responded an hour later, delivering on the questions you asked. Did you remove your vote? No. Did you back it up with further suspicions or state why his response didn't satisfy your request? No. Did you have time to do either of these things? Yes. You said I voted three hours after you got off, so I'm guessing your last time online was about 3 pm MST, which makes sense, since that's about what? 11 pm for you? Maybe 10? Something like that....
 
The point is that you voted 4 hours before you knew you wouldn't be able to change anything. And you left that vote up when you went to bed knowing that he'd responded and you wouldn't be able to change it. Sure, you didn't know others would add a vote to that, but this isn't your first game. You know things happen. You know timezones are an issue. You know that once you go to bed, what you've done is set in stone. It's not changing. The rollover, for you, is when you go to bed. So exactly how does that make you any more innocent than me or Eol? A clue: it doesn't. You're just as much at fault.
 
The fact that you're trying to push it off as though you're not and not accepting any of the responsibility is interesting though. Very interesting.

 

Yes, I left my vote on him after leaving for the night, and you're right that I should have chimed in on the thread after his post. Part of the reason that I did not was that I was hoping for more information, or to discuss it with people in PMs, but that didn't really happen. In the end, I decided that rather than hastily changing my vote to an inactive (which would be mostly useless at that point in time), I would just leave it and see if anyone joined in to get more information - after all, one vote being on a person when there are two people up for the lynch already isn't exactly going to get them to talk. People did join my vote, but I didn't expect it to end in a lynch. Am I responsible for his death? Certainly, I helped to enable it. But my argument is that I could not expect such a thing to happen.

 

So the other part of your argument is that I voted for the sake of it, and that I didn't expect him to die and be pulled up on it. As I said, I didn't expect him to die, you're right there. There's not really much that I can say to defend except this, but if I was trying to vote for someone who wouldn't get lynched, would I try to discuss my target with you guys first and ask your opinions? It is certainly possible that the Eliminators are trying to avoid giving information away through the lynch as much as possible, yes, but I have done nothing if not discuss who I vote for.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Wyrmhero

[dowanx]

I am deeply concerned that Wilson or Clanicy wasn't the one to die tonight.  Wouldn't the spiked want to knock out the two "leaders" who are fostering PM discussion?  

 

That compiled with the suspicions people are having on Wilson makes me extremely worried.  I thought this was going to be the very first thing brought up in the thread today. Why isn't this being discussed?

 

Also the votes last round were spread out so much that it only took a 3rd to swing the vote to someone.  In my mind that means the spiked got to choose the kill.  Think about it... if you were on the spiked team and could sway the vote that easily why would not do so?  Especially with the circumstances giving you a chance to (somewhat) explain your actions as Wilson has done.

 

I should also point out that we had a threat kill then a normal kill then a threat kill.  (Only Wilson so far says Kasmir wasn't a threat kill)

 

During the first day cycle I sent Wilson a PM because I had some questions.  This is my first real faction game and I figured Wilson or Clancy was the smart person to ask since they were setting themselves up as a leader role.  Wilson explained to me why it would be bad to only do threat kills and that the spiked should spread out the kills than focus on one group.  This seems to be exactly what is going on.

 

 

Eol being the last vote for Sart can be easily explained.  This is what I think happened...

 

The spiked want a large split vote, like what happened, so it only takes potentially one person to guarantee they get to choose who dies.  They accomplished this either through poke voting or by luck.  Towards the end of the cycle they have a three way two vote split, but of all experienced players.  Wilson throws his vote on Sart with five hours to go.  Causing a four way tie with the hope that a non spiked will seal the deal and kill Sart.

 

It gets closer to the end of the cycle and they realize that no one else is going to vote so they quickly tell Eol to throw the last vote onto Sart.  The reason Eol should do this is he is is already considered as dead because of his phishing PMs.  If some random spiked player voted at the last moment suspicion would be thrown on that player so why not get every last mile they can out of Eol.

 

The end of the cycle ticks and the person they want dead is dead.  Sart is the one they want dead because all of the other potential players are considered experienced and/or one or more are spiked.

 

Earlier I thought Eol wasn't spiked because of the plan he did.  I spent a lot of time thinking about this and realized that I was dead wrong.  I do believe Eol is spiked, but still believe that the plan he did wasn't condoned by the entire spiked group.  Should we lynch Eol... yes just not yet.  Wilson is potentially a much bigger problem.

 

All of this combined has me extremely worried Wilson is spiked and if Wilson is spiked then Clancy is most likely spiked as well which means all of those PM groups are compromised.  If this is the case, which the evidence leads me to believe, then we as the village are in a lot of trouble.

 

With all of the evidence: setting up PM groups, Wilson's late vote, the suspicions innocent players had of him and other suspicious activities... I am going to vote for Wilson.

 

Edit Color

I'm Awesome because this post killed me 

Edited January 6, 2015 by dowanx

[Seonid he/him]

Just a minor technical issue, Dowan. To vote, you have to put that person's name in red. I've been using bold to point out players that I have questions about but won't vote for. I think I've seen some other folks around here doing that as well. If you want your vote to be counted in the tally, you'll have to change the color.

 

EDIT: I swear that your vote was in blue when I posted!

 

EDIT2: Also, Meta, your updated player list has Kas' role in black, not green.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Seonid

[dowanx]

Haha it was, but then someone sent me a PM saying to change it... you guys are on the ball!

 

Edit - Color... sigh

 

I'm Awesome, because I'm Awesome!

Edited January 6, 2015 by dowanx

[WeiryWriter he/him]

Huh... I thought I had posted this morning... (Oh wait I just double checked and it looks like I actually posted it last night... nevermind)

 

I agree that Wilson and Claincy should be high priority targets for the Spiked, their experience plus the information they are privy to in the PM groups make them a threat.  So the fact they haven't been killed thus far could mean one or both of them are Spiked.  Which would be bad news for us.  Though people aren't limiting there PM usage to just the group ones, right?  So there would be hope that some information was denied to the Spiked.

 

Of course if they are Villagers then the longer the Spiked keep them alive the more suspicious we'll be of them... So I don't know what to do with them... Yet.

 

My mind keeps going back to Eolhandras, so for now that is where my vote will go.  It seems like such a reasonable explanation but my gut just won't let it go...

[little wilson she/her]

There's not really much that I can say to defend except this, but if I was trying to vote for someone who wouldn't get lynched, would I try to discuss my target with you guys first and ask your opinions?

 

Honestly? Yes. You would. You're a very intelligent eliminator. To my knowledge, you are the only eliminator who's ever gotten away with having a very prominent place in leading without garnering much suspicion--and surviving the entire game. I am, of course, referring to MR2. And actually, while I've brought up that game, I'm just going to mention something for everyone's benefit: Kas was an eliminator with Wyrm in that game. If Wyrm is evil, who would he want dead more than one of his former teammates who also happens to talk frequently with him beyond the game? Kas is incredibly eloquent and thorough with his accusations. If Kas even caught a whiff of Wyrm being evil, Wym would probably end up dead that very round, if not the next.

 

I am going to vote for Wilson.

 

By all means, kill me if you think it'll help you. You're just going to regret it when you find out I'm a villager, and you lose the person who's been trying to rally everyone to discussion.

 

EDIT: I somehow missed this the first time around, probably because I skipped it to look at my name in red.

 

(Kasimir was suspicious of Wilson and then ends up dead) 

 

Actually, I was one of the few Kas kind of trusted. He didn't trust me much, but it was more than either Ren or Wyrm. And believe me, if I were evil and I'd gathered even a bit of trust from Kas, there's no way I would've killed him. I like me some mindgames. A lot. Far more than is reasonable or good. Also, Kas had a feeling he would die. I thought it was unwarranted, since I thought for sure myself or someone else (not Claincy) were far bigger targets. But because he'd thought he'd die, he gave me some of his suspicions.

 

Nice try though. Really. You just put yourself on my suspect list. Well done.

Edited January 6, 2015 by little wilson
additional info

[Wyrmhero he/him]

Honestly? Yes. You would. You're a very intelligent eliminator. To my knowledge, you are the only eliminator who's ever gotten away with having a very prominent place in leading without garnering much suspicion--and surviving the entire game. I am, of course, referring to MR2. And actually, while I've brought up that game, I'm just going to mention something for everyone's benefit: Kas was an eliminator with Wyrm in that game. If Wyrm is evil, who would he want dead more than one of his former teammates who also happens to talk frequently with him beyond the game? Kas is incredibly eloquent and thorough with his accusations. If Kas even caught a whiff of Wyrm being evil, Wym would probably end up dead that very round, if not the next.

 

I'm not really sure how I can respond to this, really. Thank you for saying that I'm an intelligent Eliminator, but as far as I know, you were the only one who thought about me quite like that in MR3 - Renegade apparently had me down pretty quickly in the dead doc. It was more-or-less circumstantial that I survived the whole game I'd say, and I'm not proud of the fact that we also targeted a few new players to do that >>.

 

I'd also say that I wouldn't kill Kas if I was an Eliminator, but try to manipulate him (Hey, I've done it before ). I've often said that personal-based kills aren't all that smart for the Eliminators - But as someone under suspicion, anything I say along these lines would (and perhaps should) just be dismissed. So I don't think I can defend myself against this line of attack other than honestly saying that I am not an Eliminator, and that Kas's death surprised me as much as it surprised you - perhaps moreso, since he never mentioned to me that he was worried that he was going to die early.

 

Looking through the last Cycle's votes, I would be very interested to find out why Peng voted for Dom, with no reasoning or discussion behind it.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Wyrmhero

[Araris Valerian he/him]

I'm at school, so I don't have a super long time to look over things. I think part of the reason that Kas died was because of the discussion he and Hero generated with their disagreement. Getting rid of either one put a stop to that discussion and puts a measure of blame on the counterpart.

These debates about lynching vs no lynching can be every bit as informative as debates about who to lynch.

That being said, I still put a large amount of suspicion on Hero. I'll try and list out everything that has been bugging me about him:

 

The no-vote thing on the first day. People have no reason to respond and generate conversation if there isn't a serious threat of dying (especially the spiked). While the lynch itself isn't necessary, having one on the first day shows the rest of the players that a vote on them is something to respond to seriously.

 

Repetition that he isn't spiked. This isn't really helpful, but it is a bit distracting and annoying.

 

I also don't really like how you jumped to Eol right after the day was over. Any one of us, including you, could have made a similar decision. To tell the truth, I was considering voting for Eol right before the cycle ending to force a lynch and because he had been pretty suspicious. In my opinion, the spiked wouldn't have risked losing 1/5 or 1/6 of their members for a single kill.

 

Also, what you said right at the start of this cycle. You immediately said that Kas's death would likely lead to yours, which then puts the first person to vote for you in an uncomfortable position.

 

All of that being said, Hero already has a vote on himself so we don't really need to add another one right now. Pretty much everyone that I suspect has been voted for actually. Okay, I'm out of time, so wilson, why didn't you give more of a response to what dowanx said?

[ostrichofevil he/him]

I voted for Eoladdin because I was suspicious of him accusing me of being a Tineye, and I am a new player, making me slightly paranoid.

[dowanx]

I actually should retract saying Kas was suspicious of Wilson. I misread something which lead me to that conclusion.

 

That being said I reread most of the thread and couldn't find any solid evidence that he did trust you.  He did take your word regarding that role reveals happened with Eol's phishing PM or at least said he was going to, but that is all I can see.  So claiming that he had trust in you doesn't seem correct unless he sent you something in PMs I am missing.

 

The other points I brought up haven't really been answered.

 

Nice try though. Really. You just put yourself on my suspect list. Well done. 

 

 

If everyone isn't on your suspect list, that is suspect itself!

 

I'm Awesome because I'm Awesome

[little wilson she/her]

wilson, why didn't you give more of a response to what dowanx said?

 

I live to serve.... I knew it was a good thing I saved my lunch break for a bit later in the day....

 

I am deeply concerned that Wilson or Clanicy wasn't the one to die tonight.  Wouldn't the spiked want to knock out the two "leaders" who are fostering PM discussion?  

 

That compiled with the suspicions people are having on Wilson makes me extremely worried.  I thought this was going to be the very first thing brought up in the thread today. Why isn't this being discussed?

 

Theoretically, yes, but it depends on their situation. The main advantage that Claincy and I have right now compared to the Spiked is the PMs. However, most people aren't using them. If the Spiked know that and are in communication with the people not in their PMs, they're probably not too terribly worried about us. Most of the information we have is stuff the Spiked have access to, whether because it's in the thread or because it was gained in the Day 1 social experiment mess. I'm nearly certain a Spiked was involved in that, and I have my eye mostly on Ostrich as the culprit for it.

 

If the Spiked aren't too terribly worried about us right now, they'll be focusing on bigger threats to them, whatever those may be. They'll also likely be trying to feed the villagers' worry about us, hoping to get us lynched in the process. We do have information. I'm involved in a lot of PMs. The active ones are not, however, the group ones. They're predominantly one-on-one. And all three of those (it was four, but Kas just died) are with people that I happen to trust. As in, there's a better than 80% chance that they're villagers.

 

This one-on-one information gain is something the Spiked have to worry about for everyone, but if they can stay away from us long enough and manipulate the Villagers, mostly by reminding them that we're still alive, they can get the Villagers to do their job for them. And the great thing? They won't even have to vote for us. They can turn the crowd against us via manipulation both in the thread and in PMs and then sit back and watch us get lynched. Then, when the fingers start pointing at the people who lynched us, the eliminators don't need to worry about any fingers pointing at them. Because they never voted for us.

 

The sort of passive play is the classic Eliminator style. If the Villagers can do your job for you, they look guilty and will continue lynching each other, and you don't have to get your hands dirty in the lynch.

 

 

Also the votes last round were spread out so much that it only took a 3rd to swing the vote to someone.  In my mind that means the spiked got to choose the kill.  Think about it... if you were on the spiked team and could sway the vote that easily why would not do so?  Especially with the circumstances giving you a chance to (somewhat) explain your actions as Wilson has done.

 

Why not do so? Because that's an amateur mistake for an eliminator. You're way outnumbered so you don't want to cost your team by dying too early. The best way to avoid death is to stay out of the light. That mostly means avoiding situations exactly like this. There are only 3 people to blame for Sart's death (although I blame Sart himself as well, so 4 people). Escaping that kind of close scrutiny when it's only focused on 3 people is incredibly difficult. I don't think an eliminator would willingly put themselves into that kind of a position just to get a lynch, when it's likely that the villagers were going to lynch someone anyway, with the way we'd all discussed the value of a lynch. It was just who. And if the spiked were, for the most part, okay with the options on the table, they didn't need to get involved at all.

 

 

I should also point out that we had a threat kill then a normal kill then a threat kill.  (Only Wilson so far says Kasmir wasn't a threat kill)

 

Yep. True. That's because I don't think it was. It doesn't make sense. I like things that make sense. So in my mind, that's a eliminator-caused threat kill, a mostly-if-not-entirely-villager-caused lynch, and an eliminator-caused connection kill. I just need to figure out the connection. Which I'll do after work....

 

During the first day cycle I sent Wilson a PM because I had some questions.  This is my first real faction game and I figured Wilson or Clancy was the smart person to ask since they were setting themselves up as a leader role.  Wilson explained to me why it would be bad to only do threat kills and that the spiked should spread out the kills than focus on one group.  This seems to be exactly what is going on.

 

So? My logic when I told you that still holds up. I said the eliminators probably have an experienced player on the team--one who is considered a threat. If the eliminators only attack the threats in the game, eventually it'll just be new players, relatively new players, and an experienced player left. After the newer players start dying off, but the experienced player is still alive, people will start to get a little suspicious about that experienced player. And then they'll kill them.

 

I really love how you turn this logical argument against me but fail to include the logic that backed it up. Pure eliminator strategy.

 

Eol being the last vote for Sart can be easily explained.  This is what I think happened...

 

The spiked want a large split vote, like what happened, so it only takes potentially one person to guarantee they get to choose who dies.  They accomplished this either through poke voting or by luck.  Towards the end of the cycle they have a three way two vote split, but of all experienced players.  Wilson throws his vote on Sart with five hours to go.  Causing a four way tie with the hope that a non spiked will seal the deal and kill Sart.

 

It gets closer to the end of the cycle and they realize that no one else is going to vote so they quickly tell Eol to throw the last vote onto Sart.  The reason Eol should do this is he is is already considered as dead because of his phishing PMs.  If some random spiked player voted at the last moment suspicion would be thrown on that player so why not get every last mile they can out of Eol.

 

I can't really address this beyond saying that that's not what happened. I've already said that Eol came to me and asked my opinion on who to vote for. If you want to know why he came to me, it's rather simple. He saw my comment about Kas in the thread and decided that if Kas trusted me enough to come to me, then he could as well. If any of you are wondering what I mean by that, I'm referring to the player who came to me telling me that Eol was going to perform a social experiment but didn't know what to expect. That was Kas. I used no names because I didn't want to give him away. But Eol obviously knew who I meant. Neither of us wanted Kas to die, so that meant one of the other options. He laid down the prospects, I gave my opinion, and that was pretty much that.

 

And, at risk of sounding like a repeating record, all it would've taken was for Sart to defend himself for me to remove that vote. This is my last time saying this, because if people aren't paying attention enough to catch it the first, second, or third time, they're not worth my time and attention.

 

The end of the cycle ticks and the person they want dead is dead.  Sart is the one they want dead because all of the other potential players are considered experienced and/or one or more are spiked.

 

Earlier I thought Eol wasn't spiked because of the plan he did.  I spent a lot of time thinking about this and realized that I was dead wrong.  I do believe Eol is spiked, but still believe that the plan he did wasn't condoned by the entire spiked group. 

 

Oh, believe me, if I were Spiked with Eol and he pulled that stunt when it wasn't condoned, I would've thrown him under the bus so hard, so fast. He'd be dead right now, team numbers be darned. I don't deal with teammates who don't listen to the group. I'll instigate their death and use it to my advantage. It's what I did with Joe in LG4, and I'm not opposed at all to doing it again.

 

 Should we lynch Eol... yes just not yet.  Wilson is potentially a much bigger problem.

 

All of this combined has me extremely worried Wilson is spiked and if Wilson is spiked then Clancy is most likely spiked as well which means all of those PM groups are compromised.  If this is the case, which the evidence leads me to believe, then we as the village are in a lot of trouble.

 

With all of the evidence: setting up PM groups, Wilson's late vote, the suspicions innocent players had of him (Kasimir was suspicious of Wilson and then ends up dead) and other suspicious activities... I am going to vote for Wilson.

 

You're right. I'm a much bigger problem. To the eliminators. They want me dead. Preferably by lynch, I'll bet. And who's the first one we see really actively trying to do this? You. Both Hero and Ash already apologized for the mess-up last night. But you've gone through and collected so much "evidence" against me--most of it circumstantial and conveniently twisted to suit your purposes. My vote is still staying on Wyrm, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if I moved it to you later on tonight after I'm able to analyze things closer.

 

Also, just for funsies, here are my top suspects, in order of suspicion:

 

Wyrm

Ament and Ostrich

Ashette

Riew

 

I'm putting them down here because I see no reason not to, and if anything it'll facilitate discussion, which is always good. Plus, better in the thread than in PMs.

 

 

And since you posted in the time I've taken to write this up.

 

That being said I reread most of the thread and couldn't find any solid evidence that he did trust you.  He did take your word regarding that role reveals happened with Eol's phishing PM or at least said he was going to, but that is all I can see.  So claiming that he had trust in you doesn't seem correct unless he sent you something in PMs I am missing.m Awesome because I'm Awesome

 

One-on-one PM. He started it right as the game started. We didn't use it for a decent portion of Day 1, but it was rather active last night. Many responses. Much talking.

 

If everyone isn't on your suspect list, that is suspect itself! 

 

Sorry, by "suspect list" I mean "likely Spiked" list. There are some people who I don't suspect. 3 to be exact. Others that I think are probably villagers. And a whole lot that I have no idea about. You were one of the latter. Now you're not.

[Seonid he/him]

After work tonight, I'll try to put in a more substantive post, but I wanted to let everyone know that I have school starting up tomorrow, so I may not be able to be as active as I have hitherto been. But I won't be going inactive (or if I will, I'll come back and issue another Public Service Announcement).

 

Thanks!

[Ashiok]

I really don't have time for this today, but if I finish my work early, I'll come be useful. Wilson, you said you would elaborate on why you are suspicious of me. Wilson, I'll take you up on your request of explaining why I'm suspicious, but PM me, so it doesn't send the spiked scrambling to not push those buttons.

[Renegade he/him]

Sorry for not posting recently; I've had a lot of things to do the past two days or so.  I'll come back on in a few hours or so to actually read all of this and try to make sense of this.  (And hopefully do some RP, too. )  The one thing I do want to say is that we shouldn't focus on just a few people, as Kas said before he died.  Putting pressure on some players is fine, as long as we don't let people slide by with near-inactivity.

[Mailliw73 he/him]

Only two Messages this time?

So, does that mean one of the Seekers last round was a Mistborn?

And considering that two of the messages last time claimed to be Seekers- the only message that didn't mention it was the "ominous death threat message", does that mean one of the spiked is Mistborn?

 

I dunno, that's just my guess... .3.;

That's my guess on the three messages too. I'd guess either the second or third messages from last time we're just a Mistborn with Tin. The poem this time seems to be the same author as the poem last time and the colored message is probably from the third author. Maybe the second.

  

Well, if more evidence is what we need- and there is nothing to find in the Murder Scene, I guess our only source of information is from the Tineyes (sorry, I got them mixed up with Seekers for some reason... x.x). Has anyone made any breakthroughs on the cryptic messages?

The poem's hidden text seems to reflect the Tineye's opinion on other players- from what I can gather (but who they refer to, I do not know).

The "Another Secret" puzzle is beyond me entirely, perhaps its not a puzzle at all and is just there to annoy us? :B

 

I think I'll wait until more arguments are presented till I decide on a final vote .3.;

 

We can't guarantee any info in the messages. They're more for fun than anything. Or if the Seeker contacts a Tineye, they can release info through the message without putting suspicion on either of them. I don't think the Tineyes are likely to hide that info though if it was important, they'd probably just release it easily.

The poem's white text says "The one who is not Ehe, my trust has lost for now, I'll tell.

The one with no Ene isn't quite absurd.

Endurance (with an L) isn't as suspicious as it seems.

The writer of Rao is pure, I hear.

This is Ien following my Sao. Ido me if I am wrong, my Seo is to this town."

So I agree about your assessment on those lines. Ehe is the Aon for fire or warmth, so my guess would be Winter in this one. Ene means cleverness, so someone with no cleverness isn't absurd. I'm not really sure who that would be referring to. Endurance with an L doesn't even have an Aon like the others, but the Aon Eon means Endurance, so I think it might be saying Eol there. The writer of Spirit one really confuses me though. I'm stumped on this one, I don't even know where to begin. The last one seems to be a simpler message: This is wisdom following my learning/intelligence. Forgive/have mercy on me if I am wrong, my service/loyalty is to this town."

The whited out u in the word for in the last black line makes me wonder if the numbers have significance. They're used often enough that there could besom type of code in them too.

 

All I can figure out from the first message is that the underlined letters read "He's er anter seret." The "he's" seems important to me. A

I have no idea what message you're looking at. The one Meta posted only has Hesnveohc underlined. But anyways. I can't get anything of those colors or the underlining. This one bothers me because keep hitting dead ends. I'm not sure if it's just a joke or not.

Game related stuff: My opinion on poke votes is that they should be used to get an inactive player talking. On occasion, they have been used to ask someone's opinion or reasoning and as soon as that person posts anything, the vote is taken away. This worries me. The Spiked could be easily using this on both sides. If all they have to do is come up with some meager excuse, then the vote is taken away and the danger of the voting is lost. They could also be using these poke votes to still be voting, and so escape suspicion of the kind that Hero has garnered. If a suspect doesn't satisfy your suspicion with their response, don't take your vote away, it's not necessary and it could be manipulated easily.

My Suspicions so far this cycle are Wyrm, Hero, and Ash, not necessarily in that order. Ash hasn't really explained himself to my liking yet, so I'm going to keep on him.

[Mckeedee123 he/him]

Also, just for funsies, here are my top suspects, in order of suspicion:

 

Wyrm

Ament and Ostrich

Ashette

Riew

 

I'm putting them down here because I see no reason not to, and if anything it'll facilitate discussion, which is always good. Plus, better in the thread than in PMs.

 

Sorry, by "suspect list" I mean "likely Spiked" list. There are some people who I don't suspect. 3 to be exact. Others that I think are probably villagers. And a whole lot that I have no idea about. You were one of the latter. Now you're not.

 

These seem like some good points. Regarding Wyrm, I might want to read through that MR2 game...

 

At the same time, I’ll point out, Wilson, that you've been reacting very aggressively against any accusations against you. You pull out speculations against players who blame you and then try to turn the discussion against them (especially Wyrm, here). This kind of contradicts what you've been saying about yourself in-thread ("You guys can't really trust me.", "Take what I say with a pinch of salt", etc.) Your suspect list is simply composed of the people who have accused you at one point or another. (well, mostly)

 

Don't get me wrong. I'm definitely not accusing you of being an eliminator here (if you've been PM networking as much as you say, the eliminators would probably have more info and the kills wouldn't be going around so wildly). Just don’t point a gun at players who are simply discussing possibilities.

Edited January 7, 2015 by mckeedee123