Mckeedee123 he/him Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 (edited) Scadrial doesn't exist in a bubble. In Alloy of Law, it's abundantly clear that events are being influenced by some ghost or diety. Here are some quotes from the SLC Comic Con: Q: Miles Hundredlives, is he possessed by a svrakiss from Elantris?B: *long pause* That’s a RAFO, you are onto something… I wouldn’t say possessed, but influenced by something is definitely a possibility. You are not 100% on. Q: Is Odium mad about Sazed having two Shards?B: Yes, and scared. Q: And does he control the Voidbringers through the spren in the same way that the Inquisitors were controlled by Ruin?B: There are definitely-- In fact what you have just seen with Eshonai shares an awful lot with what happened in Mistborn. ZASI blinked, and said that my question was actually "Why did Bloody Tan see Ten-Soon (as the Survivor) and Marsh (as Ironeyes)?"BRANDON SANDERSONHe said that he was not answering any questions on what Bloody Tan saw, or thought he saw. Let's start with this: Bloody Tan is nuts. He's probably not doing anything productive by making a little museum of dead people, but remember back to HoA, where Sazed said that insane people were a lot easier to manipulate than normal people. And from that last quote (WoT Database), we can probably infer from the RAFO that Tan was seeing something. He was influenced by some sort of being. Is it Kelsier? Trying to upend the current social order? Is it Odium? Who's dribbling some power into Scadrial to try and upset Harmony's monopoly on Shardic Influence? Is it... Idunno, Bavadin? Whoever that is? Cause it's someone, and that someone is going to be very important in the rest of the series. So what are we dealing with here? Any ideas? Edited December 21, 2014 by mckeedee123 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Tavash Shar Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 It would help if we knew whether there is an Unmade some where other then Roshar. The Thrill is reminiscent of Ruins Puppeting and so far the unmade are the only thing we have seen similar in any way to Spiking Some one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjustice99 she/her Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 (edited) I don't think its Kell because the current social order was started by Spook/Breeze (and heavily influenced by Sazed) who were all his friends. It is most likely Odium as we do not know the intent of Bavadin's shard. Edited December 21, 2014 by gjustice99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AerionBFII he/him Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Hoid as a specific beef with Rayse and Bavadin. I immediately thought both of them were the bad guys and had some sort of alliance but i have recently changed my mind when i found a WOB where he was asked who is his favorite original Shardholder Brandon stated he was 'very fond of Bavadin.' My main theory is that: I honestly have no clue what so ever... i just enjoy stalking threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjustice99 she/her Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) Hoid as a specific beef with Rayse and Bavadin. I immediately thought both of them were the bad guys and had some sort of alliance but i have recently changed my mind when i found a WOB where he was asked who is his favorite original Shardholder Brandon stated he was 'very fond of Bavadin.' My main theory is that: I honestly have no clue what so ever... i just enjoy stalking threads. That is a wonderful theory! But just because Brandon likes Bavadin doesn't necessarily mean the shard he holds is a "positive" shard. Look at Ati, who was apparently a very nice guy before he held ruin. The shard's intent will consume the holder eventually. Edited January 18, 2015 by gjustice99 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkum he/him Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 That is a wonderful theory! But just because Brandon likes Bavadin doesn't necessarily mean the shard he holds is a "positive" shard. Look at Ati, who was apparently a very nice guy before he held ruin. The shard's intent will consume the holder eventually. On the other hand, just because Hoid dislikes him, doesn't mean that Bavadin is in any way a bad guy, maybe he slept with Hoid's girlfriend or something (OK, probably not something quite that petty). Also, since we know nothing about Bavadin's shard, it could be that he was a terrible person before, but the influence of his shard is improving him. Imagine if its intent is something like empathy or forgiveness. He could be Brandon's favorite because the story of a bad person becoming good appeals to him. Basically, until we see a bit more of him, I don't hink we have enough evidence to form any kind of reasonable hypothesis on what he is doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoidhunter he/him Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 So, I just finished my reread of the Mistborn trilogy. Specifically, I just finished Hero of Ages, and I found a quote that struck me. It's from page 660 in the mass market paperback edition. I've included the quote with a little around it for context here: (Hero of Ages spoiler as well...) Spoiler [Emphasis added] The phrasing is so unusual and interesting, I can't but help think it's got to have something to do with the title of the upcoming book. Has anyone noticed or speculated about this before? -This was posted in a different thread by megladon... I think it is likely that "shadows (plural) of self" is going to involve a few different slivers of infiniti...is it possible that Ruin left behind some kind of present for us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter he/him Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 Q: My other question is about the phrase “Shadows of Self”. It’s mentioned in the last Mistborn book [...] so are we ever going to see the shadows in Shadows of Self? B: We are not going-- Well yes and no. What it is referencing in this book is the different roles that each person plays in their life. That is the core meaning of Shadows of Self. But there is also, there is a kandra involved, which they change shape and become different people, so “who are you?” and identity is a big thing. (source) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent he/him Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 I wonder if Saze will end up doing something that looks a little villainous to us, because balance... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallen Rope he/him Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 I think Sazed balanced with out doing anything bad, he sent Wax to save people, and to kill vanishers, balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 I wonder if Saze will end up doing something that looks a little villainous to us, because balance... He's currently into maximizing free will right now. He won't stop you from deciding to kill countless people or anything, but he'll do his best to find another person willing and capable of stopping you and nudging them a bit. Compared to Preservation who arguably was manipulating the situation just as much as Ruin was, at least as far as his near-death would allow. He doesn't need to do anything to us for balance, Scadrial by itself preserves and destroys plenty. He only has to move when things go completely out of line, like right now in the Wax and Wayne time period. Even then all he did was minimal backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamma Fiend he/him Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 My 'aluminum-foil hat' theory with Bloody Tan in the beginning of Alloy of Law was that something had interfered or influenced the outcome of Wax accidentally shooting Lessie. It could just be the POV bias of Wax not believing Tan was able to move that fast, or maybe it's as simple as Bloody Tan knowing that Lessie and Wax had that move, and anticipated it......But I've always thought it'd be deliciously cruel, but plausible, for Harmony to have slightly interfered, knowing that Lessie's death would have driven Wax to go back to the cities to take up his house duties, and thus being there to stop Miles and what all else was going on in Elendel. (One life vs. the lives that Wax & Wayne end by stopping them, or at least hindering them).everything 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yados Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 I've always assumed that the mechanisms that have allowed Kelsier to hang around as a ghost... assuming that it mostly had to do with solidifying himself as the image of the Survivorist movement... would have worked for Rashek too. Sliverism hangs on, after all. And Rashek knew many things. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheese United he/him Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 I've always assumed that the mechanisms that have allowed Kelsier to hang around as a ghost... assuming that it mostly had to do with solidifying himself as the image of the Survivorist movement... would have worked for Rashek too. Sliverism hangs on, after all. And Rashek knew many things. Okay I hadn't thought of that but yeah. Sliver, and ruler of an empire for 1000+ years? Man's got to have a bigger Cognitive Shadow then Kelsiers Ego. But without Ruin driving him crazy, he doesn't seem like the type to just kill. Now if he thought that Bloody Tan waas in some way 'superiour' to the other humans... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yurisses Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 (edited) Kelsier could only talk to people (who believed in him as a deity) while he was holding Preservation's power (HoA annotations), between Leras' death and Vin's ascension. By now, it's possible he went onto the after-afterlife that even Sazed cannot (yet?) interact with. Edited May 28, 2015 by yurisses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaymyth she/her Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Kelsier could only talk to people (who believed in him as a deity) while he was holding Preservation's power (HoA annotations), between Leras' death and Vin's ascension. By now, it's possible he went onto the after-afterlife that even Sazed cannot (yet?) interact with. Maybe, but it's Kelsier. Have you ever known that man to understand the meaning of leaving well enough alone? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 Maybe, but it's Kelsier. Have you ever known that man to understand the meaning of leaving well enough alone? Well, there was that one time in Vin's hideout where he stopped looking after finding the false bottom in the secret compartment of the hidden cabinet inside the locked bar... so we know that he'll EVENTUALLY decide enough is enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 He kind of died, just sat there for years doing nothing instead of passing on, then by good fortune Leras kicked the bucket and he finally had something to actually do for once. Man is persistent. He didn't really need more wine after that false bottom anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowspren he/him Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 (edited) As I understand it, Hoid was present at the shattering of Adonalsium. The author of the 2nd letter says "He bears the weight of God’s own divine hatred, separated from the virtues that gave it context. He is what we made him to be, old friend. And that is what he, unfortunately, wished to become." Obviously the author of this letter and Hoid's 'Old friend' knew Rayse before he took up the shard of Odium, and the part that gets me is "He is what we made him to be" could it be that the beef that Hoid has with Rayse is a long lasting rivalry that turned Rayse into the 'most loathsome, crafty, and dangerous individual' and thus is why Rayse wanted to take Odium in the first place. The author of text 2 also talks about Odium being the divine hatred without context... could the context that he is referring to the same reason that said author will not get involved... the intent of reasoning or logic. From the 2nd letter it seems that whoever wrote it is staying out of it because: A- Odium is the most powerful and is therefore a danger to his life B- He believes that Odium being trapped on Roshar is the best they can do Also, the author of the 1st letter (presumably Hoid) is actually pleading and begging him to get involved, would that not support the theory that whoever this guy is, is as close to a direct opposite to Odium as they are going to get and that his involvement could be very useful to stopping Odium... 'You have accused me of perpetuating my grudge against Rayse and Bavadin.' If the person who accused him of this was a shardholder of something like logic or reasoning or something of that affect then just think of how the conversation would go. His 'old friend'would just be trying to convince him that the reasonable thing to do would be to abandon his quest and flee... Another note about the context of the shard; while he states that the divine hatred without context is what drives Odium to so much destruction, he could not wish to admit that his sole intent being "logic" would mean that all he could do is the logical thing and flee... and so his logic without context is just as bad as Odium's hatred without context Edited June 1, 2015 by Zaci-chan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ookla the Absent Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 Look at the entire sentence ending in "context". Adonalsium was all 16 virtues: honor, odium, preservation, ruin, cultivation... Pure preservation, for example, is a terrible thing, but a person possessing all 16 can choose whichever is needed at the time. That is the context. God's preservation is a positive thing when exercised in balance with the other 15. God's hatred is also a positive thing when exercised in balance. As for "He is what we made him to be", I can't really say. RAFO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadeshadow227 Posted May 6, 2016 Report Share Posted May 6, 2016 Okay I hadn't thought of that but yeah. Sliver, and ruler of an empire for 1000+ years? Man's got to have a bigger Cognitive Shadow then Kelsiers Ego. But without Ruin driving him crazy, he doesn't seem like the type to just kill. Now if he thought that Bloody Tan waas in some way 'superiour' to the other humans... NOTHING is bigger than Kelsier's ego. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vissy Posted May 6, 2016 Report Share Posted May 6, 2016 I'm pretty sure Bartimaeus' ego is bigger. For that matter, it's probably bigger than the entire Cosmere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenod Posted May 9, 2016 Report Share Posted May 9, 2016 Okay I hadn't thought of that but yeah. Sliver, and ruler of an empire for 1000+ years? Man's got to have a bigger Cognitive Shadow then Kelsiers Ego. But without Ruin driving him crazy, he doesn't seem like the type to just kill. Now if he thought that Bloody Tan waas in some way 'superiour' to the other humans...SH spoilers TLR just passes on after his dead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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