What new Lore did we get with the RPG

[bmcclure7]

Dose anyone have a list of all the new or changed lore? 

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

There's a whole bunch about Rall Elorim.

1) Rall Elorim is a Dawncity that has frequently changed between human and Singer hands during Desolations.

2) The Iri Singers aren't super keen about serving the Fused, since the Iriali didn't treat them as bad as other nations did, some even worship the One.

3) There is an anti-Fused resistance made of both Humans and Singers. 

4) In a slums called the Dirgehollow, it is haunted because of a bunch of Gemhearts that contain the trapped souls of 'Shadowform' Singers that Ba-Ado-Mishram made long ago.

5) The Heral Pailiah lives in the deepest tunnels, stealing 'mementos' from people to remember them by in a madness induced obsession.

6) There are rumors that there are Shardblades and Plate buried under Crem on the 'Traitor's Path', which likely leads to Feverstone Keep.

7) Iri's Triumvirate leaders now have 3 more members, a trans Envoyform Regal, a Deepest One who wants to destroy all resistance and a Devastating One who 'has her own agenda'. Cannot remember any of their names for the life of me.

And that's about it for Rall Elorim. Don't quite remember if there were any other lore drops in the World Guide, not ones that caught my attention anyway.

[heridfel]

I was startled to see that Shardplate apparently weighs 1400 lbs, or about 635 kg. That doesn't seem right, as the book confirms the previous lore that it takes a team of trained professionals to doff or don it in a timely fashion. That suggests that its largest sections are still light enough that people can lift them. I'm not even sure they could be loaded onto a chull-drawn cart if they are that heavy.

We're also told that when Shardplate is no longer Invested, the person inside is only Slowed*, which doesn't fit with being stuck inside armor which weighs that much. The normal rules for the game say that you can't move if you exceed your lifting capacity, and non-Invested Shardplate exceeds everyone's lifting capacity. Put another way, most characters in Invested Shardplate couldn't lift another Shardplate.

* In terms of game play, that means a Leader with Relentless March or an Envoy with Devoted Presence can yell/talk in a way that not only allows a person in broken plate to move, but to move even faster than they normally would. A Relayform Singer just ignores that downside of broken plate. But that's game mechanics rather than lore.

EDIT: Yeah, I'm going to say that Shardplate weight is an error. Later in the book, we get the carrying capacity for a Ryshadium and it's only 1000 lbs. In their description, it says "They stand an average of two hands taller than horses of other breeds, have stone-like hooves that don’t require horseshoes, and can carry a warrior wearing Shardplate into battle—a feat which would injure or kill other horses."

A normal horse's carrying capacity is 500 lbs, so that suggests the weight of a rider in Shardplate (plus saddle, other weapons, etc.) is somewhere between 500 and 1000 lbs. That would put the Shardplate as weighing somewhere between 300 and 750 lbs.

Edited July 27, 2025 by heridfel

[RedBlue]

The canonical glyph for chouta is a stylised (but super obvious) picture of a taco with steam rising from it. It’s pretty funny 

[therunner he/him]

8 hours ago, heridfel said:

I was startled to see that Shardplate apparently weighs 1400 lbs, or about 635 kg. That doesn't seem right, as the book confirms the previous lore that it takes a team of trained professionals to doff or don it in a timely fashion. That suggests that its largest sections are still light enough that people can lift them. I'm not even sure they could be loaded onto a chull-drawn cart if they are that heavy.

That is actually in line with the books, in TWoK Shardplate is described as 100 stoneweigth, which is ~635 kg. Assuming Rosharan lowered gravity it would still be ~440 kg (980 lbs) of weight in earth units.

Which, yeah it is supernatural powered armor, that sounds about right.

Cuirass usually forms circa 30% of full plate weight, but in Shardplate it is actually at least two pieces, so each would be at most 95kg. Heavy, but doable for few people to lift.

And historically, drawn carts can carry between 1000-2000 pounds, so they could be loaded and moved on a cart.

8 hours ago, heridfel said:

We're also told that when Shardplate is no longer Invested, the person inside is only Slowed*, which doesn't fit with being stuck inside armor which weighs that much. The normal rules for the game say that you can't move if you exceed your lifting capacity, and non-Invested Shardplate exceeds everyone's lifting capacity. 

That is likely game rules less than actual lore.
Though depends on what exactly they mean no longer Invested.

8 hours ago, heridfel said:

EDIT: Yeah, I'm going to say that Shardplate weight is an error. Later in the book, we get the carrying capacity for a Ryshadium and it's only 1000 lbs. In their description, it says "They stand an average of two hands taller than horses of other breeds, have stone-like hooves that don’t require horseshoes, and can carry a warrior wearing Shardplate into battle—a feat which would injure or kill other horses."

A normal horse's carrying capacity is 500 lbs, so that suggests the weight of a rider in Shardplate (plus saddle, other weapons, etc.) is somewhere between 500 and 1000 lbs. That would put the Shardplate as weighing somewhere between 300 and 750 lbs.

Considering the weight is consistent with TWoK, it si more likely that the Ryshadium carrying capacity is error, and should be higher.

Or more specifically, it could be unit mismatch, Ryshadium capacity being in 'earth' lbs and Shardplate weight in Rosharan lbs.

Edited July 28, 2025 by therunner

[lacrossedeamon]

Only 3 thunderclasts were born/created ever.

BAM invented regal forms since she did not have access to the fused.

Pretty sure neither of these were explicit before.

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

2 hours ago, lacrossedeamon said:

BAM invented regal forms since she did not have access to the fused.

I wonder if Shadowform Singers were BAM's attempt to create her own undying warriors like the Fused, only attempting to be more ethical about it than Odium. Maybe trying to have them be able to form bodies out of pure Investiture like the Heralds rather than possession? Only when she was imprisoned, the Shadowforms were hit harder than the others and their Invested bodies evaporated but their souls remained Invested to inhabit their own Gemhearts, unable to die or create a new body?

Oh, as for new confirmed lore and not mad rambling theories, a member state of the Azish, Alm, has been secretly taking in Singers who want to stay out of the wars and be neutral, which is nice.

I guess with the Almish and the Iriali treating the Singers well, Rlain won't be the only Essai anymore, and probably never was, which is even nicer.

[Jult]

We got the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Ideals for the 9 playable Orders (no Bondsmiths). I think several of these are new information.

[DSCrankshaw]

We got the ideals for the Bondsmiths, even if they're not playable. Though it was basically just Dalinar's ideals, with the warning that they're each unique though the themes are similar. 

[Jult]

18 hours ago, therunner said:

EDIT: Yeah, I'm going to say that Shardplate weight is an error. Later in the book, we get the carrying capacity for a Ryshadium and it's only 1000 lbs. In their description, it says "They stand an average of two hands taller than horses of other breeds, have stone-like hooves that don’t require horseshoes, and can carry a warrior wearing Shardplate into battle—a feat which would injure or kill other horses."

The Rhyshadium stat block has a specific feature called Beast of Burden that reads "The Ryshadium’s carrying capacity is 1,000 lbs. They ignore the weight of Shardplate worn by their chosen rider."

Not sure if it's just game mechanics stuff or if there's some kind of lore implication here about the bond between a Rhyshadium and their chosen rider.

[DSCrankshaw]

3 hours ago, Jult said:

The Rhyshadium stat block has a specific feature called Beast of Burden that reads "The Ryshadium’s carrying capacity is 1,000 lbs. They ignore the weight of Shardplate worn by their chosen rider."

Not sure if it's just game mechanics stuff or if there's some kind of lore implication here about the bond between a Rhyshadium and their chosen rider.

Gallant did carry Adolin in Shardplate back in Words of Radiance, when he was pretending to be Dalinar, so the books don't quite match that mechanic. I would say that Adolin was later a chosen rider for Gallant, but he wasn't at that point.

[heridfel]

I re-read the fight in Words of Radiance where Kaladin grabs part of the Shardplate to use as an improvised shield. The way he swings it around, there is no way that it is made from an extremely heavy super-metal. Even with the Rosharan gravity making units of weight vs. units of mass wonky, it would be like trying to parry things with a 40 lb. barbell.

But this is apparently not a new problem so it doesn’t belong in the new lore thread. It’s also weird that the Ryshadium carrying capacity bonus isn’t listed in the mounts section but only in the stat block (and that it doesn’t line up with lore either).

[therunner he/him]

1 hour ago, heridfel said:

I re-read the fight in Words of Radiance where Kaladin grabs part of the Shardplate to use as an improvised shield. The way he swings it around, there is no way that it is made from an extremely heavy super-metal. Even with the Rosharan gravity making units of weight vs. units of mass wonky, it would be like trying to parry things with a 40 lb. barbell.

He grabs helmet (and it basically turns into sort of bulbous glove), which if Shardplate behaved like full plate would be circa ~40kg, which yeah that is a bit much. 

But then again, he is holding Stormlight, and that makes you stronger than regular human. We don't have hard numbers on how much, but in RoW he grapples with Stormform, and those are stronger than Warform, and those are ~2x as strong as human. So Kaladin in that scene is about at minimum ~2.5 as strong as ordinary human. 
Put that on top of the fact that he until recently was carrying heavy wooden bridges every single day for months, so he is super buff and it starts to look a bit more realistic.

[Jult]

2 minutes ago, therunner said:

He grabs helmet (and it basically turns into sort of bulbous glove), which if Shardplate behaved like full plate would be circa ~40kg, which yeah that is a bit much. 

But then again, he is holding Stormlight, and that makes you stronger than regular human. We don't have hard numbers on how much, but in RoW he grapples with Stormform, and those are stronger than Warform, and those are ~2x as strong as human. So Kaladin in that scene is about at minimum ~2.5 as strong as ordinary human. 
Put that on top of the fact that he until recently was carrying heavy wooden bridges every single day for months, so he is super buff and it starts to look a bit more realistic.

The fact that it transforms feels like it's actively treating him as its Shardbearer, too. And they don't feel the full weight of their Plate once it 'activates' for lack of a better word.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Anyway, getting back on topic. Here's some more fun new lore facts that interested me:

• Yelig-Nar (as suspected) is now confirmed to only grant 9 Surges (no Adhesion).
• Singers from the Reshi islands have taken over an island of their own post True Desolation and live there in total peace and solitude. Neither the Reshi humans nor the Fused have bothered them (so far).
• We also learned a ton of small details about Singer forms. They're also unlocked in pairs, but that seems to be more of a game mechanic than a lore thing.

Form	Spren	Category
Dullform	Any spren not associated with a form	Default
Mateform	lifespren	Default
Artform	creationspren	Forms of Finesse
Nimbleform	windspren	Forms of Finesse
Warform	painspren	Forms of Resolve
Workform	gravitationspren	Forms of Resolve
Mediationform	bindspren	Forms of Wisdom
Scholarform	logicspren	Forms of Wisdom
Direform	callousspren	Forms of Destruction
Stormform	stormspren	Forms of Destruction
Envoyform	zealspren	Forms of Expansion
Relayform	hastespren	Forms of Expansion
Decayform	blightspren	Forms of Mystery
Nightform	nightspren	Forms of Mystery
Shadowform	shadowspren	See Spoiler below*

*Stonewalker spoilers about Shadowform:

Spoiler

Shadowform is sort of a failed form. BAM was trying to turn some Singers into incorporeal assassins by having them bond shadowspren. It did not work at all as she expected. It turned their bodies into permanent shadows, with only their gemhearts remaining solid. This essentially trapped the Singers as something resembling a Cognitive Shadow. These bizarre shadow gemhearts play a major role in the Stonewalkers campaign.

[DSCrankshaw]

2 hours ago, therunner said:

He grabs helmet (and it basically turns into sort of bulbous glove), which if Shardplate behaved like full plate would be circa ~40kg, which yeah that is a bit much. 

But then again, he is holding Stormlight, and that makes you stronger than regular human. We don't have hard numbers on how much, but in RoW he grapples with Stormform, and those are stronger than Warform, and those are ~2x as strong as human. So Kaladin in that scene is about at minimum ~2.5 as strong as ordinary human. 
Put that on top of the fact that he until recently was carrying heavy wooden bridges every single day for months, so he is super buff and it starts to look a bit more realistic.

The books say repeatedly that Stormlight doesn't make you much stronger-but it does some. Game mechanics wise, you can get +1 to Strength and Speed from Stormlight, while Plate gives you +2 to Strength and Speed. But +2 wouldn't really be enough to deal with the increased weight of the armor, so either the armor is lighter when worn, or the +2 is on top of the Strength necessary to make up for the weight of the armor.

As for Lore:

I didn't realize that Roshar's 500 day calendar was ten months of ten weeks, though I did know that a week was 5 days. That may be in the Coppermind somewhere, though. 

Bondsmith Squires retain their Surgebinding for months away from their Knights, but they don't acquire Bondsmithing powers, only regular Tension and Adhesion.

 

[Qianweilian He/him]

1 hour ago, DSCrankshaw said:

Bondsmith Squires retain their Surgebinding for months away from their Knights, but they don't acquire Bondsmithing powers, only regular Tension and Adhesion.

If I suspect correctly, this is only for game convenience so players can be Bondsmith squires and be able to leave Urithiru to go adventure for a while.

[therunner he/him]

9 hours ago, DSCrankshaw said:

The books say repeatedly that Stormlight doesn't make you much stronger-but it does some. 

This is something that was discussed on the forums quite a bit, and from what actually happens in the books, it seems like Stormlight does not increase your strenght in sense of multiplier , i.e. what previously took 1 unit of strength takes only 0.5 on Stormlight, but instead it increases your cap. 

Basically it acts like semi-permanent adrenaline boost to strength. This is consistent with both the fact the people on Stormlight mostly don't perceive increase in strength in regular interactions (back in TWoK Kaladin even though it does not increase strength at all), and also with the fact that it allows you to fight hand to hand with explicitly inhumanly strong Regals and Fused.

9 hours ago, DSCrankshaw said:

 Game mechanics wise, you can get +1 to Strength and Speed from Stormlight, while Plate gives you +2 to Strength and Speed. But +2 wouldn't really be enough to deal with the increased weight of the armor, so either the armor is lighter when worn, or the +2 is on top of the Strength necessary to make up for the weight of the armor.

These are certainly more gamified than what actually happens in books, Shardplate explicitly makes you roughly as 10-20x as strong as regular trained human. At very minimum, shardhammer has to be carried by 3 people, and Dalinar than wields it one handed with complete ease.
That is much more than +2 modifier, I would assume.



 

 

[Qianweilian He/him]

16 hours ago, therunner said:

These are certainly more gamified than what actually happens in books, Shardplate explicitly makes you roughly as 10-20x as strong as regular trained human. At very minimum, shardhammer has to be carried by 3 people, and Dalinar than wields it one handed with complete ease.
That is much more than +2 modifier, I would assume.

I think the modifier is just to balance it. I could easily see a lvl 2-3 group of warriors with long spears beat a shardbearer with good rolls. Compared to in either WoK or WoR (forgot which one) dozens of singers are whacking Dalinar for minutes before his plate begins to crack.

Edited July 30, 2025 by Qianweilian
I somehow misspelled "balance" as "bancs."

[therunner he/him]

5 hours ago, Qianweilian said:

I think the modifier is just to bancs it. I could easily see a lvl 2-3 group of warriors with long spears beat a shardbearer with good rolls. Compared to in either WoK or WoR (forgot which one) dozens of singers are whacking Dalinar for minutes before his plate begins to crack.

Which makes sense for a game, you want to sort of compress the scale, otherwise you have balancing issues.

[mike.the.monk]

Shardplate is definitely weaker in game than in the books - in WaT, it takes four strikes of an aluminum weapon to the exact same spot of Plate to shatter it, and even more so for a different kind of weapon. But in the game, Plate can only deflect four attacks before it runs out of charges, whether or not it's in the same exact spot.

Stonewards also can take more squires than most orders. Most orders have a maximum number of squires equal to their Ideal they've sworn, so 4 at high levels. Stonewards max at their level rather than Ideal. Windrunners have even more, max is twice their level.

The stat blocks for Skybreaker enemies has a boost to sifting the guilty from the innocent - they get advantage on Deduction or Insight rolls to determine truth. No such power exists for players.

The closest you can get is Sleuth's Instincts from the Investigator path, where if you know a character's motivation, you can tell when they are lying to you.

[DSCrankshaw]

3 hours ago, mike.the.monk said:

Shardplate is definitely weaker in game than in the books - in WaT, it takes four strikes of an aluminum weapon to the exact same spot of Plate to shatter it, and even more so for a different kind of weapon. But in the game, Plate can only deflect four attacks before it runs out of charges, whether or not it's in the same exact spot.

Stonewards also can take more squires than most orders. Most orders have a maximum number of squires equal to their Ideal they've sworn, so 4 at high levels. Stonewards max at their level rather than Ideal. Windrunners have even more, max is twice their level.

The stat blocks for Skybreaker enemies has a boost to sifting the guilty from the innocent - they get advantage on Deduction or Insight rolls to determine truth. No such power exists for players.

The closest you can get is Sleuth's Instincts from the Investigator path, where if you know a character's motivation, you can tell when they are lying to you.

EDIT: Oops, quoted the wrong person. Meant to quote Qianweilian:

Quote

I think the modifier is just to balance it. I could easily see a lvl 2-3 group of warriors with long spears beat a shardbearer with good rolls. Compared to in either WoK or WoR (forgot which one) dozens of singers are whacking Dalinar for minutes before his plate begins to crack.

I agree that it's mostly a matter of balance. But one thing to keep in mind is that strength is not linear. Lifting Capacity is the following:

Strength   Lifting Capacity

0            100 lbs.

1-2         200 lbs.

3-4        500 lbs.

5-6        1,000 lbs.

7-8        5,000 lbs

9+         10,000 lbs.

Note the big jump from 5 to 7. The difference between the amount you can lift with max human strength and max human strength in Shardplate is 5x. Remember, the modifier is the bonus you have on the roll, not how strong you are compared to others. (Some superhero games, such as Mutants and Masterminds, also have an exponential relationship between their modifiers and the maximums that they represent, in order to represent abilities that can scale from housecat to superman.) Speed is also not linear, though it's not as steep as Strength.

One thing that would be more book-accurate would be to cause Shardplate to set Strength to 7, rather than increase Strength by 2, but I can see why it was done this way, in order to keep the weak Lightweaver wearing Shardplate from being as strong as a maxed out Warrior wearing Shardplate.

Edited July 31, 2025 by DSCrankshaw

[Qianweilian He/him]

On 7/30/2025 at 11:41 PM, DSCrankshaw said:

I can see why it was done this way, in order to keep the weak Lightweaver wearing Shardplate from being as strong as a maxed out Warrior wearing Shardplate.

It could also represent how individuals can be more or less skilled with plate, beyond just the expertise.

We also know a radiant shardblade can be a blunt weapon, as it turns a staff or mace into spirit damage.

Edited August 1, 2025 by Qianweilian

[mike.the.monk]

Kholinar was not a Dawncity but was built on the site of one. Sesamalex Dar was a Dawncity.

Singers only comprised 1/10 of the population of Alethkar.

In my mind, that makes the singers the equivalent of lighteyes in occupied Alethkar (though lighteyes might have been a smaller percentage of the population, I don't know for sure).

Edited August 10, 2025 by mike.the.monk

[Jult]

I don't recall anyone bringing this up yet, but Enlightened Truthwatchers do have access to the normal Illumination and Progression trees. I think it's long been speculated (by the fanbase and by Renarin) that they got future sight in place of normal Truthwatcher abilities. But this seems to confirm that they get their Enlightened abilities in addition to the normal ones.

Quote

As an Enlightened Truthwatcher, you begin having visions of the past and future. When you bond this mistspren, you gain the Future Sight key talent from the Enlightened talent tree (see the end of this “Truthwatcher” entry). Later, after you speak the First Ideal, you can choose additional talents from this talent tree, in addition to the talents from your Truthwatcher path.

As these Truthwatchers continue experimenting with the surge, they usually become adept in Spiritual Lightweaving, which excels in affecting hearts and minds. When choosing Illumination talents, you’re encouraged to select talents from the left side of the tree. These talents include Distracting Illusion, Disorienting Flash, Spiritual Illumination, and Painful Truth; you might also choose Endless Illusions in addition to or instead of Painful Truth.

[Elite01]

For enlightened truthwatchers I feel confident saying that in book 4 Navani says that renarin can’t use illumination the same way other truthwatchers can. 
 

I think this might be more of a game design thing than a lore thing.

if I find the quote I’ll add it to this post